DNC Conversations on Female Leadership

TOPICS DISCUSSED

  • Former Governor Jennifer Granholm

  • Senator Debbie Stabenow

  • Live from the DNC with Mayor London Breed and A’shanti Gholar

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EPISODE RESOURCES

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TRANSCRIPT

Sarah [00:00:07] This is Sarah Stewart Holland.  

Beth [00:00:09] This is Beth Silvers.  

Sarah [00:00:10] You're listening to Pantsuit Politics.  

Beth [00:00:12] Where we take a different approach to the news. 

[00:00:14] Music Interlude.  

Alise [00:00:29] Hello, everyone. It's Alise, the managing director of Pantsuit Politics. Sarah and Beth have spent their week at the Democratic National Convention in Chicago, while our director of community engagement, Maggie and I have been working hard from back home to bring you all their updates and the content they're making from the convention. It has been an exhausting and invigorating week for us all. We can't wait to share more with you about their experiences. They have been doing daily updates to our premium members, but we know they'll have a lot more to say once they've had a chance to digest this experience a little bit more. I'm certain they'll talk about it on next Tuesday's show. We have kept them on an absolutely packed schedule all day, every day, including a lot of great conversations with incredible elected leaders.  

[00:01:10] On today's show, we are bringing you pieces of three of those conversations. So first up, you will hear their entire conversation with Jennifer Granholm. She reflected on this convention and this moment for female leadership. You might know her name because she is currently serving as the Secretary of Energy in the Biden administration, but she was at the convention purely in her personal capacity. So we do not believe in Hatch Act violations here. And so Sarah and Beth referred to her as former Governor Granholm throughout because before her role as secretary, she was the first female governor of the state of Michigan. You'll be able to see a video version of that conversation on our Patreon page later today.  

Sarah [00:01:58] Former Governor Granholm, we are so delighted to be speaking with you here at the Democratic National Convention.  

Former Governor Jennifer Granholm [00:02:02] I love it. We're here at the convention. You women having a conversation, nothing better than that.  

Sarah [00:02:08] Okay. So we you need your steps, how many conventions have you been to? I make you do math. 

Former Governor Jennifer Granholm [00:02:14] I know, right? I've been to every convention since the last time I was in Chicago, which was in 1992.  

Sarah [00:02:21] Wow! Did you do the Macarena?  

Former Governor Jennifer Granholm [00:02:23] Of course!  

Sarah [00:02:26] I love it.  

Former Governor Jennifer Granholm [00:02:27] When in Rome, yes, you have to do it.  

Sarah [00:02:28] I love it. So what's the same, what's different? 

Former Governor Jennifer Granholm [00:02:37] That's so funny. What's different?  

Sarah [00:02:37] What's the same, what's different, what's the vibe? This is a vibe election, right?  

Former Governor Jennifer Granholm [00:02:41] Yeah. But I just feel this is such an interesting vibe because normally, often when we come to these conventions, we're all revved up and everything like this, but this vibe is different because the underpinning of joy. To me, the joy thing is diff-- it's explicit. Well, we feel joyful when we're at a convention, but we don't really carry that into the campaign permanently. And this has been a feature, not a bug of this campaign. And that's super exciting. Plus, I remember when Hillary Clinton was nominated and I was so utterly proud because there were all these American flags and the guy who sang the national anthem was a young man from a family of immigrants and he was in in like a mariachi outfit, and he sang the Star-Spangled Banner. It was just so emblematic of being an American and being so diverse and embracing that, and that our diversity is American exceptionalism.  

Sarah [00:03:55] Yes, I love that.  

Former Governor Jennifer Granholm [00:03:58] I loved all of that. And I love that this has carried forward so strongly here. I keep saying that it should be boring that we have a woman in a position of leadership. But whoever was saying earlier today that it's really not a glass ceiling, it's a marble ceiling because it's so hard to bust through for a woman- this particular job of being president. But once that happens, man, I just hope that it is just as boring as it can be that we see women in these positions. In other countries we're seeing women in positions of leadership all the time running in ways that really emphasize a lot of issues that we care about. I mean, men care about the care economy, too, but they're not having the babies and they're not often caring for them at home in the same way. So it's exciting to have this conversation. I'll just say that.  

Sarah [00:04:53] Yes, I totally agree.  

Beth [00:04:54] I'm thinking about the evolution of those conventions since the 90s, and social media has changed the vibe to some extent, probably a great extent. And are women in powerful positions? I would love to hear your thoughts on the evolution of those conventions. What have you noticed, good or bad, about the way the composition of what we're here to do has changed because of those trends?  

Former Governor Jennifer Granholm [00:05:15] Well, I do think in the same way that policy has evolved, we've evolved so much as a society. And what is the role of government, what is the role of policy? How can policy actually transcend? I just say this from my perspective as the former governor of Michigan. So I was governor at a time in the early 2000, from 2002 to end of 2010. And this was when the Great Recession happened, when we were losing jobs, hand over fist, when we were seeing all these manufacturing jobs leave, which is the bread and butter, of course, of the Midwest. And we were as a nation, we were sort of like bowing to the altar of globalization and free trade. And that was what was done and even if it meant we lose some jobs, that's okay because we'll pay less for the products. Completely turning their back on the communities that have had these...  

[00:06:11] That conversation has completely changed with this administration in particular, that there is an industrial strategy to actually keep and create jobs in America, to invest in America, focus on creating that middle class from the bottom up and the middle out. And the president obviously focused his leadership on unionization and how important unions are to creating good paying jobs. That conversation has changed a lot. And then finally I think we've seen it in the experiment of a child tax credit, which obviously was done right after Covid, but it expired. That brought so much relief to so many poor families. And the fact that she's putting that front and center- Kamala Harris is.  

Sarah [00:07:03] Yes, it's not siloed over here.  

Former Governor Jennifer Granholm [00:07:03] It's not siloed. It is part of who we are. We are going to support these families. Talk about being pro-family. So to me that's hundreds of dollars per month for families who are struggling. And that's what we should be supporting. It's exciting.  

Sarah [00:07:19] I want to ask you to do something difficult, which is brag on Michigan. So I'm sure you're up for it. Michigan seems to have a comfort with strong female executives.  

Former Governor Jennifer Granholm [00:07:28] Isn't it great? We have some, as we say, kick-ass broads in Michigan. It's so fun. 

Sarah [00:07:34] And it's like Michigan has a tough reputation, but I think it kind of has a little bit of a tough reputation. What's going on in Michigan? Why are they so comfortable? Why are they a little bit in front of the rest of the country as far as strong female executive?  

Former Governor Jennifer Granholm [00:07:44] Well, I will say Gretchen Whitmer has done an amazing job. And part of her ethos is that she is a regular person. I mean, campaigning on fix the damn roads. She reminds me of a female version of Tim Walz. She's just like, this is who we are. I am from here. We're going to eat pasties or Michigan tradition. I mean, we're going to do stuff that is just real. She loves to drink a beer at the bar-- Michigan brew, of course. So I love the fact that she's sort of opened up the permission structure for women. Obviously, I was the first woman she came to after me. There was somebody in between who's a guy. Well, forget about that. But anyway, but she was able to, I think, campaign on it and campaign in a way that she was fearless about things. When Barbie came out, she had a whole thing. Have you interviewed her yet?  

Sarah [00:08:47] No.  

Beth [00:08:48] We got her here on the show.  

Sarah [00:08:48] Years ago, yes.  

Former Governor Jennifer Granholm [00:08:50] Year ago? Okay. You got to get her back in.  

Beth [00:08:51] During Covid [crosstalk]. 

Sarah [00:08:51] Yeah.  

Former Governor Jennifer Granholm [00:08:53] She had fun with it. She had all of these memes with a Barbie, wearing her pink because she wears a lot of pink and with dark hair Barbie.  

Sarah [00:09:01] How about joyful warrior.  

Former Governor Jennifer Granholm [00:09:02] Totally. Talk about a happy warrior. Anyway, I think Dana Nessel, the attorney general who also has been fearless has been just a great example of not feeling like you have to shy away. That you can come out and just be strong and real and talk about, obviously, the issues that women and men care about. So I'm so proud of Michigan.  

Sarah [00:09:29] Do you know what it reminds me of? It's like coming close in time and thinking about you and then Governor Whitmer and Hillary in 2016 and now Kamala. And you think when they come close in time, that not that much has changed and you don't realize how much just one person changes everything and that permission structure all of a sudden is much more expansive, even really close in time.  

Former Governor Jennifer Granholm [00:09:50] Right. A hundred percent. Hillary's speech was so powerful to me and to obviously many of us who were working on that.  

Sarah [00:10:01] I cried.  

Former Governor Jennifer Granholm [00:10:01] Yeah. And that she, I think, has a sense of joy of being able to pass the torch and open that up. And even in 2016, things were just so different. It was just different. So I just love the fact that we seem to have gotten over a lot of B.S., a lot of baggage. We still have a lot to go. Until a woman gets in there, we can't really claim victory. But I feel like there's been progress on this. I'm so excited about it.  

Beth [00:10:33] There is something really unconstrained in this fun spirit of the campaign and in things like fix the damn roads, mind your own damn business.  

Former Governor Jennifer Granholm [00:10:42] Yes, mind your own damn business. The best line. I love it.  

Beth [00:10:47] Yes. And it is unintimidated. It is not the caricature of a politician. You really know swing voters coming from Michigan. You know the importance of crossover appeal. Do you think that this happened organically, or is this kind of a calculated like that's what brings these voters in. More straightforward but less fearful, less existential? 

Former Governor Jennifer Granholm [00:11:08] Yes, I totally think less fearful, being real. People are craving reality and authenticity. And that mind your own damn business, it hits people in a real way. In Michigan, for example, we had a ballot proposal last election and we got a lot of swing voters come in to vote because of the abortion issue. Because we banned abortion in our Constitution, that's why we were left with crazy. But that notion of I think men and women understand, get out of my doctor's office, get out of my decision about where or when to have children, get out of my uterus! 

Sarah [00:11:49] Yeah. Get back to the roads. Do your job.  

Former Governor Jennifer Granholm [00:11:50] Do your job. Exactly. So to me I think it resonates with people who are also angry and fed up. They're fed up at government. Often they're fed up at politicians. But if you can, if you could just be like one of them. Yeah. Real way. I'm fed up, too. Yeah, boss. I think it's, you know, it's not. Doesn't have to be calculated. It just has to be real. Yeah. And people can read. People are so smart. They can read a phony, you know, a mile away.  

Sarah [00:12:16] Well, and I have to say, as we wrap up with Hillary speech, I loved how she put herself in that timeline for Kamala in that. [Crosstalk] a strong female executive for people who are out there doing it. I want to say thank you, you're in that timeline.  

Former Governor Jennifer Granholm [00:12:30] Yes, I'm a big player in the timeline.  

Sarah [00:12:33] It's been falling apart, so thank you.  

Former Governor Jennifer Granholm [00:12:33] No, I think every woman who has raised their hand and has led, has continued to move us forward. And for your listeners out there, I really always want to encourage women to raise their hand to serve if it's right for them. Don't feel like it's got to be left to somebody else because your voice is so important because it translates into policy. And that's really what it's all about. It's not just about you, it's about something bigger than self. And I think women get that in a really fundamental way.  

Sarah [00:13:08] Yeah. Thank you.  

Beth [00:13:08] Thank you.  

Former Governor Jennifer Granholm [00:13:09] Thanks you guys so much.  

Alise [00:13:13] Next up you will hear some of Sarah and Beth's conversations with Senator Debbie Stabenow, also of Michigan. She really set the stage for passing the torch to younger leadership earlier this year when she announced she would not be seeking reelection. Sarah and Beth spoke to her about that, about the stakes for control of the Senate, where so much of the next four years will be decided legislatively. They talked to her about serving alongside then Senator Kamala Harris and lots more. We are sharing just a piece of that conversation here today. But you will be able to hear the whole thing on our premium channels also posted later today.  

Beth [00:13:49] There's a lot of education going on during this convention week about the stakes of the presidency.  

Senator Debbie Stabenow [00:13:54] Yes.  

Beth [00:13:55] I would love to hear you talk about the stakes of control of the Senate. You've seen a lot there. How would you tell Americans who are less involved in politics what is associated with the stakes of the Senate?  

Sarah [00:14:08] Well, and I'm sure to your first answer that's why it's hard to step away when you always understand the states.  

Senator Debbie Stabenow [00:14:13] It is. I mean, it totally is. And being a part of Senate leadership, working continually to help get colleagues elected and so on, it's certainly a big issue front and center for me. What I will say is that to really get something done-- and this goes both to the presidency as well as the Senate-- you need partners to get things done. You need, from my perspective, a Democratic president and a Democratic House. And then you really move. We call that trifecta. You need the Democratic trifecta. When we had that in the first two years of the Biden-Harris administration, that's when we got everything done to get children back to school safely and save lives and protect our hospitals. And then we went on to rebuild our roads and bridges and rebuild America, bringing jobs home and focusing on the climate crisis and clean energy and health care and taking on the drug companies. Actually, we had no Republican colleagues voting with us. There were few things like the infrastructure, but taking on the drug companies, not one Republican joined us.  

[00:15:26] And so, if you want to do these big things, our next president, President Harris, wants to tackle the things that she used to say to me when we were in the Senate together, the things that keep families up at 3:00 in the morning. And that's the basic costs, where they are making sure you got a job there, making sure you have a home and then making sure you can afford health care and food for your children. They have a safe school and a safe neighborhood. And to do that, you have to have partners. And in the kind of climate we're in right now with MAGA Republicans, with their vision through 2025 which destroys all of that, a Democratic Senate is critical. The other thing I will say, with everything the courts are doing now, the way Donald Trump has really destroyed an independent judiciary federally. And we are seeing the courts now take on our basic freedoms, reproductive freedom, our freedom to make our own personal decisions and who we love and where we entrust everything, who we are.  

[00:16:32] The truth is the federal branch is critical, and it's the US Senate that confirms judges. So it doesn't go to the House at all, it's the Senate. So it's the president and the Senate. And because we've had a Democratic Senate, we have now in four years of quietly being focused every day, have replaced 25% of the federal judges. Think about all the crazy right wingers that have been making all these decisions that are against the environment, against labor rights, against our freedoms, that promote, immunity for the president, that he can do anything at any time somehow and be a king, I mean, all these things. So we've replaced 25%. If we have a presidency, Harris and and Vice President Tim Walz, and a Democratic Senate in the next four years, we will have replaced 50% of the federal judges. Why is it important? First of all, these judges are lifetime appointments. So if we can replace them with people who know the Constitution, believe in the rule of law, believe in a code of ethics, truly love our country and not just power and want to protect our freedoms, that's huge.  

Sarah [00:17:56] Yeah. I'm interested in when you were talking about serving with Vice President Harris in the Senate. And then really we watched that great tie breaking montage. You kind of kept serving with her for a while.  

Senator Debbie Stabenow [00:18:07] I did.  

Sarah [00:18:08] She showed up those last was two years. What did you learn about serving beside her and watching her understand those stakes so clearly that you just articulated, and watching her sort of development over those years?  

Senator Debbie Stabenow [00:18:22] Well, I had always admired her. Certainly as an attorney general and in the work that she did in California. But I didn't really know her that well. And so when she came in, as a member of leadership, Senator Schumer and I and others would bring in new members to talk about their priorities. What do you think we should focus on? And she really did start every conversation by saying, I think we should focus on the things that keep families up at 3:00 in the morning. That's how she talked. And so she was always pushing us to be in the here and now to help people, which was music to my ears, and was something I was very impressed with. She also has been very committed on health care and mental health. I've been leading many of the efforts in the US Senate to expand community mental health, and she has been all in in that effort. I was so impressed. Again, not everybody focuses on that. She is terribly, focused.  

[00:19:24] And then we worked together on health disparities. We we know a pregnant woman who is black is going to have a higher risk than a woman who's white. That if you're Hispanic or black, the kinds of health disparities where you don't get the care that you need, your baby doesn't get the care that they need are very real. The numbers are very real about infant mortality, lack of support. She lagged on that, and I was pleased to be her partner on that as well. She had really important legislation. So I saw her in all of that role. And then the final thing I will say is she wanted to reach out and learn. And as we've been moving to electric vehicles, as we're talking about let's make batteries in the US, let's bring jobs home; we got to protect the auto industry; we got to protect good union jobs; she would pull me aside and say, tell me more. I need to know more about the auto industry. Tell me what the challenges are. Tell me how I can help. So she was asking and learning in a way that was very impressive.  

[00:20:31] Music Interlude.  

Alise [00:20:42] Finally, we were thrilled to have Sarah and Beth do a mini live podcast in partnership with Emerge America, a nonprofit organization that recruits, trains and provides a network to Democratic women running for office. As you may know, if you've been around the show for a while, Sarah went through the Emerge program back when she ran for city commissioner in Paducah. What you may not know is that Emerge itself actually grew out of Kamala Harris's 2002 campaign for district attorney in San Francisco. Kamala apparently likes to refer to herself as the original Emerge candidate, which I love. So it was just a really amazing moment to get to work with Emerge America. For that conversation, Sarah and Beth were honored to speak with the current mayor of San Francisco, London Breed, and Emerge's Executive Director, A’shanti Gholar. Both of these women know Harris personally, and Sarah and Beth wanted to talk to them about what a Harris presidency could look like. It was such a fun conversation. We know you're really going to love it.  

Sarah [00:21:39] Hello, everyone. So lovely to be here with you today. I'm already loving all this sea of white I'm seeing out there. Emerge as an organization very close to my heart. I graduated from Emerge Kentucky in 2014. So delighted to be here. And listen, what they tell you and teach you in Emerge is to deal with all aspects of campaigns, but definitely attacks. And we know and I know you know, mayor, that what they're going to do with Vice President Harris is the same old San Francisco liberal shtick. What do you think that misses-- besides everything. Specifically, what does that miss when they trot that out? What do people around the country not understand about San Francisco politics? We have some big players rolling out of San Francisco politics: Nancy Pelosi, Gavin Newsom and now the vice president. What are people missing?  

Mayor London Breed [00:22:33] Well, I think San Francisco politics is brutal. And when I say brutal, if you want to be an elected leader in San Francisco, you have to fight for it. You think this presidential race is a fight? No. Come to San Francisco and try to run for office. It's been described as having a knife fight in a phone booth. Do people still know what phone booths are?  

Sarah [00:22:59] Maybe a photo booth. There we go.  

Mayor London Breed [00:23:01] That's a good one. Yes. But part of it is San Francisco has less than a million people. It is somewhat like a town, even though it's a major city. So you have more interactions with the public and more importantly, everybody holds you accountable. Everybody has something that they want you to fix, and they will make sure that, yes, we know you're on the national stage, but mayor, fix my pothole tomorrow. They don't mess around. And so it's a rough and tumble. But we have a lot of incredible stars that come out of San Francisco that go on to do extraordinary things. And I think because San Francisco is a bit of a political leader. And in fact, it's great to be here with A'shanti and to talk a little bit about Emerge because Emerge, a program that trains Democratic women to run for office, was founded by four women in San Francisco because of our vice president, Kamala Harris.  

[00:24:04] And she went to Andrea Dew Steele one of the co-founders and said, "Okay, I want to run for district attorney. What do I do?" It was like, okay. And then they just came together. What do I do next? What about fundraising? How does this work? And that's how Emerge was born, because there were so many women that wanted to be in elected office, that wanted to help be a part of the change but we're too often told, well, maybe it's not your time, or maybe you should be on the PTA or a certain committee and really focused on women being in one thing specifically. But as you can see, so many incredible women leaders have emerged out of San Francisco. And this program is an important part of our city, but also the legacy of Kamala Harris.  

Sarah [00:24:58] Well, and I think something you said made so much sense to me. When it's a place where people's politics align, then everybody feels represented. It's not like you have people from the other party being like, well, that's not my candidate. And I think you see that in so many leaders like you and Vice President Harris, and they feel like they do represent everybody. You get that everybody matters. I want everybody's perspective. And that makes so much sense to me.  

Beth [00:25:20] And that's why your phrase a knife fight in a phone booth makes a lot of sense to me. You both have a ton of experience navigating-- I love this phrase. It's a little negative. But that idea of the narcissism of small differences. When you are in the same tent, it can get very, very intense. So talk to me about what you've learned yourselves about navigating that narcissism of small differences, and how you think the vice president is handling that in her campaign so far.  

A’shanti Gholar [00:25:49] I mean, the vice president is a pro at handling this. This is something that we talk about in the training program. The mayor really hit it, it's that network of support. That is something that Emerge gives our alums. It's the recruitment. It's the training. It's the in depth. But you don't do it alone. You're able to be in a room during the training with like-minded women. After the program, you have your Emerge sisters. They call it the Emerge Sisterhood. And I love the fact that is something that the alums came up with, we didn't create it, just because they felt that connection. But knowing that it's about community, the people are getting it done.  

[00:26:27] I always say with Emerge when we were updating the curriculum, it's important for me to have community-centered and driven candidates, because that is what it needs to be about when you're out there asking for their vote, but also when you are in elected office. The vice versa president has navigated it from that first race with DA, to be able to become an AG, U.S. Senator, vice president, now our next president. But I think the thing that really shows her connection to people is all of these different For Harris and Kamala coalition groups that have popped up. The fact that you see the white dudes saying, we're here for Harris-- not just like we're supporting her, we're going to have her back.  

Sarah [00:27:07] Or my favorite Hotties for Harris.  

A’shanti Gholar [00:27:09] Hotties for Harris had a good party. I love seeing the Latino man. They're like, yes, it's our call. It's the fact that we know this moment is so much bigger than the small differences and that is what everyone is navigating. And they know that the vice president sees it as well. That yes, I'm the nominee, it's me and coach Walz, but this is really so much bigger than us. This is about our country, our democracy. And who do we want to be for the next, frankly, 250 years? If you're into astrology. I'm an astrology girl, you know we're about to enter Pluto in Aquarius. And honestly, this election is going to set the tone for our country for the next 250 years.  

Sarah [00:27:52] Wow! Now, listen, I'm just going to warn our audience, I cry easily. I cry a lot on our podcast, so I'm probably going to tear up when I start talking about that Emerge sisterhood.  

A’shanti Gholar [00:28:03] We were talking earlier about crying this week.  

Sarah [00:28:06] Y'all got me on the feed last night crying at the convention. It's normal for me. Don't be alarmed. Because talking about that sisterhood, Emerge was incredible because it is such an intimidating process to run for office. There's so many things that maybe you know you have to do, but somebody say, no, you're going to sit here right now and we're going to call somebody and ask them for money. We'll sit right here today and call somebody and ask for money.  

Mayor London Breed [00:28:27] I hated that part.  

Sarah [00:28:28] Yeah, but when somebody is sitting next to you telling you you can do it, it's a lot easier.  

Mayor London Breed [00:28:33] Yeah, but I still hate it.  

Sarah [00:28:37] Fair. And I ran for City Commission with a dear friend of mine who was running for mayor at the same time we were in the same Emerge class. And it's not that you form the support in the training, it's that it informs how you see running your race and the issues, the way that people inform your outlook. Coach Walz with his daughter coming-- here it comes-- about the gun violence and saying, I'm a hunter, but I had to see it differently. Where do you see that with Vice President Harris in this campaign around gun violence, about reproductive health? Where can you see in her policy positions that support, that being informed by the experiences of those around her?  

Mayor London Breed [00:29:19] Well, I welcome the opportunity to talk about this, because sadly the neighborhood I grew up in, gun violence was the reason why I got involved in public office in the first place. And in fact, growing up in public housing and growing up in a community where it was common for the people that you love to be killed by the people that you love. And Kamala Harris, during the time when she was D.A., we have this really awful homicide that happened in a gym in front of a bunch of kids, and it was so devastating and so heartbreaking. And she immediately reached out to me and came to the gym and was determined to seek justice for what happened. And it was really difficult because she actually personally spent time talking to the kids, talking to their families, talking to everyone, trying to get some resolution. Because the fact is we wanted the killer off our streets, and we needed our D.A. and the appropriate investigation by the police to happen.  

[00:30:28] And when people are trying to criticize her record one way or another, whether she's not tough enough on crime or she's not soft enough on crime, she wrote a book about it: Smart on Crime. Because there's a big difference between someone who wreaks havoc on our community and who takes another person's life. Everyone in the community, as much as people were living in fear and afraid to say anything, they wanted justice and they didn't want to be concerned about something else happening to somebody else. And Kamala was very aggressive about putting away murderers in our city, and at the same time threw her back on track program, recognizing that there are people who deserve a second chance for various reasons and providing that opportunity. But she took a very strong stance against gun violence, standing with mothers who lost their children to gun violence and continuing to be an advocate for responsible gun policies, especially, because back then we weren't talking about gun violence in the schools.  

[00:31:37] We were talking about gun violence on the streets in certain neighborhoods, and she was still at the forefront of helping us to combat those issues, meeting with some of the perpetrators of crime themselves. But then as things started to happen with things like Sandy Hook and others, then all of a sudden our children are having gun drills in the schools, which I didn't have when I was a kid. Schools were the sanctuary, and now we're at that point and we can't be open about responsible gun policies in the city. The point is, Kamala Harris will be aggressive, and she will use her personal experience of not just going after people who have committed murder, but she will definitely go after the gun lobby and others who consistently say, we want no regulation, we want nothing to get in the way of our ability to protect our Second Amendment rights.  

[00:32:40] And what about our children? What about protecting our children? And what about protecting fellow Americans and a lot of these mass shooting incidents that occur? There is no reason why someone needs to be walking around with an assault weapon anywhere in this country. And so I think she's going to be extremely aggressive. She's going to have many examples to point to. And just like she took on the big banks when she fought during the home loan crisis, she's going to do everything she can to push aggressively to take on the big gun lobby.  

Sarah [00:33:14] Well, I think what you name there too, the paradox of you feel that she, because of those experiences as a prosecutor in San Francisco, holds that whole spectrum of gun violence experience. I was a victim of a school shooting in 1997. It was very early. It rocked our community because we didn't have that history. It was one of the very first ones. And when she speaks, I hear exactly what you're describing, this sense of I understand the grief that this radiates out everywhere. Everywhere. And I think that is so incredibly powerful.  

Beth [00:33:50] I always admire when I listen to you, Mayor Breed, the clarity about the stakes. That's what I heard in that answer. And I think this convention has had really had a tone of the stakes are clear, and so we don't have time for a lot. We have to be so focused. I would love to hear from both of you what you think she will prioritize in office? She's had a big portfolio as vice president. I get very angry because I don't think she gets enough credit for that giant portfolio of work and many accomplishments she's had.  

A’shanti Gholar [00:34:18] Cosign on that.  

Beth [00:34:20] But I would love to know what can we learn from that big portfolio and the clarity of stakes that's being communicated this week?  

Sarah [00:34:27] Beth was on that beat years ago. Y'all, we have the time stamps to prove it.  

A’shanti Gholar [00:34:30] It is definitely everything that we have been seeing tonight. The different themes. Definitely freedom is a huge focus. The freedom for us to be able to live the lives that we want. Definitely continuing to be for the people, be it from gun violence, to reproductive health, to healthcare. But I think the biggest thing is we need to really talk about the fact that the Biden-Harris administration has been extremely successful. They guided us out of the pandemic. They have gotten us back on track. We have a strong economy. She has been a part of that, and they are trying to trash that legacy because they want to say she will not be a successful president. So what we're going to see is her continuing to implement those strong policies that they have done under the Biden-Harris administration, from HBCU investment, which has been huge student loan debt. And for me, I really love what they have done with prescription drug costs. That is something that is so personal because my grandmother retires, are worried about money. What does she do? She did what most seniors do. She starts rationing her medicine. Rationing her medicine, had a silent stroke, developed dementia. If her insulin was $35, she would be here voting for Kamala Harris. So I think those are the things that we really-- and I'm getting emotional.  

Sarah [00:35:58] I know. I see and it is getting me. I'm going to have to look away for a minute.  

A’shanti Gholar [00:36:02] So those are the things that she's really going to prioritize.  

Sarah [00:36:07] And can I say that has been the presence of the women in our lives that are no longer here at this convention, including Kamala's mom, Michelle Obama's mother. Like the way that we feel them here, which is a good lead into what I want to ask next.  

Mayor London Breed [00:36:26] My grandmother, Miss Brown, who raised me, I want to put her energy out there. She sadly developed dementia, too. And to think about their legacy and what they experienced in this country and how we as women are sitting here in this capacity helping to elect the next president of the United States, it is pretty incredible to think about what this means and how this will change what happens for the future, for people with their medication and access to good health care and their reproductive freedom.  

Sarah [00:37:07] Yeah. So here's what I want to ask you. What does your grandmother say, what do you say when people go, "I just don't know if America is ready." Take a deep breath. It makes me really angry and I have to be like [inhales].  

A’shanti Gholar [00:37:21] I mean, they said they weren't ready for a Mayor Breed, and now, look, they got a Mayor Breed, and she's one of the best damn mayors in this country. I absolutely love watching her work. They always say that they're not ready for us.  

Sarah [00:37:37] It's like it's an empty attack because they don't have anything substantial to say. It's weird.  

A’shanti Gholar [00:37:42] I mean, we talk about this a lot at Emerge. We have so many firsts. We have all of these trailblazers and we love celebrating them. But we have to say why? Why in 2024? Why in 2020? Why even in 2010? But they are ready for that. We just need those good women who are putting their name on the ballot, because you can't vote for the good woman if her name isn't on the ballot. So the fact is, people are ready. They just need to see the good women stepping up doing the work, and we have to give them those great candidates to vote for. I love every election cycle looking at just the performance of our alums. Great thing about being a president, I still get to be a nerd and a political person and dive into the numbers. And I see our Emerge alums outperforming even people who are running statewide, who are supposed to be the ones bringing it home. It's always those mayors. It's the state ledge, it's the city council, school board. It's those people, particularly those good women who are being elected and reelected that are boosting those people at the top. So they absolutely are ready. They are ready for her for vice president. They're going to be ready for her for president.  

Mayor London Breed [00:38:57] And I would just say, if they're not ready, they better get ready.  

Sarah [00:39:01] That's right!  

Mayor London Breed [00:39:01] They better get ready. Because here's the thing, it's interesting coming back here to Chicago because I actually traveled here with Kamala to Springfield, Illinois, when Barack Obama in 2007 made his announcement. It was like 10 degree weather. We were freezing cold. And in my mind, I'll be very honest, I was like, "I'm inspired by him, but I don't know if America is ready." I even said that. And when I got out there and I saw all those people, I saw the excitement and the energy; I was like, Holy crap. They better get ready. Just like then and just like now, they better get ready. And here's the thing, she's ready. She is ready. I can't stand when they're talking about DEI. I'm like, has anybody ever asked about Trump's credentials?  

[00:39:54] This woman you all know what she's done throughout her career, and what qualifies her to be the leader of the free world here. And it is so offensive. But that means we have a responsibility because we know what Kamala is going to do and the things that she cares about and her values. But the question is, what are we going to do? What's our role? To make those calls, to send those text messages, to have those hard conversations? We don't need to know her entire policy platform, but we can tell our own story. And the fact that the person who's our competition is her competition, it's so offensive. And if that doesn't get you fired up and ready to fight and ready to win, I don't know what will.  

Sarah [00:40:41] Yeah.  

Beth [00:40:41] What's so amazing to me, though, is that she seems to have none of that "Is America ready" in her posture and presentation. This convention has been an explicit announcement we are coming for the independents. We are coming for disaffected Republicans. Everybody is welcome in this coalition. I would love to know where you think that comes from. Have you seen that in her background before and what you think it portends for her administration?  

Mayor London Breed [00:41:08] Yeah, I would say, the reason why I thought I could do it is because she did it. And so when she first ran for district attorney, she ran against a sitting incumbent and she took it on. And I don't know where that came from, but I mean, well, if you met her mom, Sharmila, you would know where it came from. However, she had the courage and people think that she got any of these positions easy. She was alone in many instances. I went up and down the stake when she ran for attorney general, even when some Democrats were not entirely supportive. She fought for every vote. She fought to get into every church, every living room, every opportunity. And so when you look at what she does, she doesn't just complain about what someone didn't do, she just does the work. And her advice to me is similar to my grandmother's advice.  

[00:42:07] My grandmother was like, I'm like, "Mama, mama, he hit me." She's like, "Well, you can't control what he does, but you can control how you react to it. And so, just like when I'm like "Kamala, what did she say? I'm ready to fight." Kamala is like, "Calm down, calm down. Just be lovely. Be lovely and keep moving forward. It's not worth it. Just stay the course and stay focused on what you're trying to accomplish and rise above it. Rise above the circumstance." That is exactly what she has had to do under all challenging circumstances. And this is what you're seeing happen as a result of her candidacy. She's rising above. She's doing what she always does, and she's staying true to who she is as a person.  

Sarah [00:43:00] I mean, I heard an interview with Nancy Pelosi talking about how she didn't endorse, Kamala on that first race. She was with the incumbent district attorney. And she was like, "Respect, she won anyway." I was like, wow. And I think what's so special, and I sense this with you too, mayor, is like, yeah, it's a knife fight. It's hard. And also watch me still be joyful in this phase. Watch me still enjoy every moment. And I think that's not just important for all of us supporting her. I think about what you just said, "I knew I could do it because she did it." And all the women considering running for public office and thinking, I don't know, it seems hard, it seems tough. But then to see this woman at the top of the ticket having so much joy and fun running, what do you think that's going to do as far as inspiring the next Emerge graduates?  

A’shanti Gholar [00:43:50] I love it. For me, I'm just having so much fun personally in this moment. The fact that people are seeing how fun politics can be, I'm like, this is my life. This is what I get to wake up and do every day at Emerge. Politics can be so much fun, but people don't think it is because they see that negative, nasty side. And when people talk to me, I tell them that is part of their plan not to get us running. That is part of their plan not to get us engaged. The sexism, the misogyny, the racism, they want all of that. Because when we don't run, we still maintain the white male patriarchy that benefits them. And then they're at the table, they're controlling the policy. They get to make the decisions that have a positive impact on us and negative impact on things good for them. But when we do have that seat at the table, things change. And that's what they don't like. So they try to do all of the things possible to keep us from having that impact. So seeing her have that fun, the joy, all of the different coalitions. This is what politics should be all the time. And I love that she's showing that.  

Mayor London Breed [00:45:05] And I love it. I love watching it too. I have my own race going on. I'm running for reelection. I got four guys running against me, and it's cool.  

Sarah [00:45:17] Four guys.  

Mayor London Breed [00:45:19] Look, I love the men. Don't be alarmed here. But it's interesting because they're saying everything that I've either done or am doing or plan to do, yet they get attention for it differently than I do. And it's so interesting to see that play itself out in politics. So what I have to do is exactly what my grandmother and Kamala said to do. Control what you do. Don't worry about what they're doing. Rise above it. Be lovely and live in your truth. Live in your truth and don't let anybody steal your joy. Because if you're in this world, if you're doing this work, you do it because from my perspective you really want to have a positive impact on people's lives. And I do because of how I grew up. I want to change communities that that tend to be disadvantaged and go through a lot of challenges and neglect. And that's what we're doing in San Francisco.  

[00:46:24] And I have people who are formerly incarcerated working for me. I have people who are in recovery working for me. People who I pointed in elected positions, who have been on the other side of the tracks and have changed their lives and turned their lives around. And were it not for someone who understood what it was like to be in that world, you may not have really respected or appreciated giving someone like that opportunity. That's what makes Kamala Harris so exciting, because she knows it. She knows intimately the world I grew up in and the neglect, and she gave it the kind of attention as support it needed. And that's what she's going to do as president. And I went up and down the state of California in rural places, in all kinds of places, sitting in living rooms of families who are asking for help and support. And she listened. And part of that listening was developed into policy, developed into teams. This is why I'm so excited about what this moment means. It means opportunity. It means her taking all of us with her in her heart to the white House and making real change for this country.  

Beth [00:47:40] These are such weird jobs because you have to be lovely and do the knife fight and listen to people and provide them that empathy, but also do all of the homework and know your stuff and be willing, as you are right now, mayor, to talk about the structure of the council. Is this functioning correctly? It is a huge range. So as we wrap up, I would love to hear from both of you. What do you think is the essential trait? Like what do you have to have in your soul to be a leader as a woman? And how do you see that in the Vice President?  

A’shanti Gholar [00:48:13] Authenticity. You have to be authentic. You have to be yourself, because when you're not it absolutely so through. And we see that in the vice president. And as I've been doing lots of interviews, people say, "What don't people know about the vice president that they should know? What isn't out there?" And I'd say, she is such a girl's girl. She is the ultimate girl's girl. Like London is doing Emerge and a part of Emerge because the vice president recruited her to the program. I have other women who will say, yeah, I got married. And then I get this call from Kamala who's on the campaign trail congratulating me. I'll get voicemail from the vice president because my silly self misses the calls. That's how it always goes.  

Sarah [00:49:02] You and Tim Walz.  

A’shanti Gholar [00:49:04] Missing a call is the worst thing ever. But then you get the voice mail to play for people, which is kind of cool. And she'll just say thank you for what you're doing. I see you and I thank you. And to have a woman who was so damn busy still seeing other people and what they're doing, that isn't fake. That is authenticity. And it is who she is and it's who we deserve as a president.  

Sarah [00:49:31] Guys, please don't ask me how many times I've watched the Thanksgiving turkey video. It's a little embarrassing where she explains how to cook the Thanksgiving turkey, and she's giving the recipe-- and you put it under the skin and... Just every word you're like, oh, she's done this recipe a lot, and it sounds really, really good. It's amazing.  

Mayor London Breed [00:49:45] And I agree with A'shanti. It is being your authentic self and living in your truth. But I want to just correct the record. She didn't recruit me to do Emerge, she forced me to do it. I didn't have a choice. And people, Kamala authentically really is Mamala. 

Sarah [00:50:03] Well, I think she did the right thing.  

Mayor London Breed [00:50:04] She's like, you got to do this program. And what's interesting you say that because it was just my birthday, and she came to San Francisco on my birthday. I didn't tell anybody. I'm keeping it under wraps. But someone told her clearly, and so she gave me one-- she knows I love candles. And she created her own candle that she gave to me. It was so cool. But my point is, you're right about her being authentically her and reaching out to people, knowing their stories, getting those hugs, and being concerned about your life and what's going on with you. And again, that's going to come directly with her to the white House.  

Sarah [00:50:44] We're excited and everyone's excited. Tonight's the night we're going to hear from the Vice President herself. Thank you so much for joining us.  

A’shanti Gholar [00:50:51] Thank you both for everything you do.  

Mayor London Breed [00:50:53] Yes, thank you.  

Sarah [00:50:54] What a fun conversation.  

Beth [00:50:55] Thank you to Mayor London Breed and A'shanti Gholar.  

Sarah [00:50:56] Yes, thank you.  

[00:50:58] Music Interlude.  

Alise [00:51:10] We will be back to our regular programing in all places next week. Two new shows on Tuesday and Friday here on the main feed. Nuanced Life has wrapped up for the summer, and so we will be fully back to normal programing here and back to our normal premium content schedule as well, including next week, the second to last installment of our Democracy in America slow read-along. If you have not joined us on premium yet, but all this talk of DNC content is getting you interested, I will point out that our entire archive of premium content never gets taken away. So if you join us there, you are always able to access the content for your level of support. There are more than seven years of that content on Patreon, so it could keep you busy for a very long time. If you are looking for something specific, I actually spent a lot of my summer building out a searchable content archive for all of our content. You can find linked in the show notes on our website for this episode and all episodes going forward.  

[00:52:08] I'm still working on getting the entire backlog of premium content added in. As I pointed out, there is a lot of it, but every single episode of the main show we've ever done and the last several years of premium content are all there, searchable by topic and other tags. So we hope it's a really wonderful resource for you. We so often get asked about, "Have Sarah and Beth ever talked about this specific topic?" And we wanted to build out something to help you all find that. Thank you so much to every elected official who spoke with Sarah and Beth about this week, every staffer who helped make it happen. It's been a really energizing week, and we are also very excited to get back to our regular rhythm of work starting on Monday. Thank you so much for joining us, and for continuing to do the shared work of building a better America for everyone. We hope you have the very best weekend available to you.  

[00:52:57] Music Interlude. 

Sarah: Pantsuit Politics is produced by Studio D Podcast Production.  

Beth: Alise Napp is our Managing Director. Maggie Penton is our Director of Community Engagement.  

Sarah: Xander Singh is the composer of our theme music with inspiration from original work by Dante Lima.  

Beth: Our show is listener-supported. Special thanks to our executive producers.  

Executive Producers: Martha Bronitsky. Ali Edwards. Janice Elliott. Sarah Greenup. Julie Haller. Tiffany Hasler. Emily Holladay. Katie Johnson. Emily Helen Olson. Barry Kaufman. Katherine Vollmer. Laurie LaDow. Lily McClure. Linda Daniel. The Pentons. Tracey Puthoff. Sarah Ralph. Jeremy Sequoia. Katie Stigers. Karin True. Onica Ulveling. Nick and Alysa Villeli. Amy Whited. Lee Chaix McDonough. Morgan McHugh. Jen Ross. Sabrina Drago. Becca Dorval. Christina Quartararo. Shannon Frawley. Jessica Whitehead. Samantha Chalmers. Crystal Kemp. Megan Hart. The Lebo Family. The Adair Family. Genny Francis. Leighanna Pillgram-Larsen. The Munene Family. Ashley Rene. Michelle Palacios. 

Sarah: Jeff Davis. Melinda Johnston. Michelle Wood. Nichole Berklas. Paula Bremer and Tim Miller.
 

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