The Nuanced Life: Hope and Heartbreak in Families
Sea changes in families often come with hope and heartbreak. In this episode, we share stories from listeners about moments in their life that brought that mix of feelings.
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TRANSCRIPT
Sarah [00:00:07] This is Sarah Stewart Holland.
Beth [00:00:08] And this is Beth Silvers.
Sarah [00:00:09] You're listening to The Nuanced Life. A Pantsuit Politics production.
[00:00:13] Music Interlude.
[00:00:29] Hello everyone, we're so glad you're here today. This summer on Fridays, we are reviving The Nuanced Life, a podcast we used to make about the messiness of living wisely. And today, we're going to talk about when life throws your family a curveball. Often, sudden changes are associated with tragedy or loss, but it can also happen after exciting news or happy developments. And almost every time a sudden change comes with a mixture of both. Happy moments make us sad, and sad moments leave us clear-eyed about what makes us happy. That's the nuance, and that's what we're going to talk about on this episode of The Nuanced Life.
Beth [00:01:02] Before we get started, did you know that Sarah and I are on Cameo? If you have a Pantsuit Politics fan in your life celebrating their own momentous event, no matter how happy or sad it may be, we will film a special greeting, congratulations, birthday hello for their very own commemoration. You just click download on the Cameo app and search for Pantsuit Politics and you will find us. We love making these special shout outs for our listeners and people in our community. One of the things that we love about our audience, is that there are so many lifelong learners and teachers here. Many of you will be going back to school in some form this season. So for the month of August, we wanted to offer you a little treat. If you would like an encouraging back-to-school message from us. You can get a 50% discount off our usual Cameo prices.
Sarah [00:01:55] Up next, let's talk about life's curveballs.
[00:01:56] Music Interlude.
[00:02:07] Beth, we heard from Valerie. And I want to stay positive and encouraging, but Valerie has had a crime perpetrated against her Beth. She found out in January that her 16-year-old junior in high school will be graduating early in May. Excuse me, I didn't even know this was a thing. If they came to me and said, "Oh, JK, Griffin's graduating this May," I would say, "No, thank you. He is not." Did you know this was a thing?
Beth [00:02:42] I did not know this was a thing. I'm very curious about how this all went down. But it sounds like Valerie has raised an incredibly competent and on the ball daughter, and I hope she feels really good about that.
Sarah [00:02:55] She does, but she is also struggling. She says they struggled with infertility to have this daughter. She says, "We prayed so hard for her and have tried to cherish every moment. But darn it, if the time didn't fly." And she can't believe that her empty nest days are already here. I have big feelings about this phase of life and my oldest child is only 15 years old.
Beth [00:03:21] I can start to appreciate why people have such big feelings about this phase of life, because I am getting to that point where my older daughter is just really fun to be around. We were in the car yesterday, and we cracked ourselves up to the point where we could hardly breathe. We were laughing so hard. And it's neat to see them become people who are funny and sturdy and who are making interesting decisions, but are still interested in your guidance on those decisions. And I hope we're building a relationship that lasts beyond her living in my house-- and I believe that we are. But I am starting to see that glimpse into, oh, I won't always take her to her violin lesson to get this chance to debrief on her day and giggle with her like this.
Sarah [00:04:09] Yes, I appreciate your calmness. I hate it. I'm raging against this with my whole entire spirit, body and self. Griffin made my whole entire life when he was born. I love him so much. He is my most helpful child. He is only a freshman, and I dread every day when he leaves my home. He's my favorite. I just think he's so helpful and interesting and smart and empathetic. And I just cannot fathom that this baby that I held in my arms, and I just thought it was everything, and he was so little. And it's the silly stuff that sticks with you, right? I remember when he was born, the first week thinking, I got to soak up this first week. I don't know why I got so emotionally attached the first week, but I thought, this is it. This first week, man, after that, it's just going to fly by. And it just felt like every day was like sand through my fingers.
[00:05:08] And I remember it just like, I just wanted it to stop just for a moment so I could just stay there. And then there's this other moment I think about all the time. It's so silly. I bought this pair of eight-year-old pants at Surplus City when he was little. It was silly. I mean, he was like three or four, but the pants were a good deal. I don't know, but I bought the pants years before he would need them. And these pants became this talisman. All of a sudden, he was wearing the pants and then they were too small on him. And then Amos was wearing these dang brown striped pants, and then they were too small on Amos. And when Felix outgrew the pants, I thought, how could this be? It's these silly pants that I just remember buying and thinking, these will be too big for ever and they've been out in my house for years now, and I don't understand how it happened.
Beth [00:06:04] Well, I also love my children despite my calm. And I do feel very attached to who they are, and I enjoy them and I enjoy being their mom. At the same time, I do feel like I have always had this sense that they're just sort of on loan to me. I think I've always understood that they will not live here forever. And sometimes I'll say things that acknowledge that just floor Chad. Like we were talking about renovating a part of our house, and I said, "Maybe we should just wait until the girls aren't here anymore to do that." And he's like, that's a long time from now. What are you talking about? And I got the first glimpse that like, oh, he is starting to think about that too and it's hard. And it is hard because it's a long time, but it's not either. It'll be here before we know it.
[00:06:55] And I'm becoming more and more cognizant as I look at my own parents how much more life they've lived with us out of their house than they did with us there. It is a longer chapter of your life to be an empty nester than it was to be in the phase that we're in now. So it's hard. I want to look forward to that period too, though. So I don't want to only feel heartache. I think if I'm Valerie, bringing it back to her, it would be really scary to step into that a year earlier than I thought I was going to. And I just wonder where is that an opportunity instead of just a hardship? Because I can imagine that it lands really, really hard.
Sarah [00:07:46] Well, I think so much of this as I've looked to my own emotional reactions to this, which are predominantly intense and negative-- I'm just being honest. I just want them to live with me forever. Is when you identify with a phase of life-- and I think this can happen in lots of different phases. I think a lot of people identify or like looked forward to and were excited about high school. And so, high school just became a big part of the story for them. And some people were just trying to get through high school, and it's like a blink and they don't think about it. This is present in mind because-- we've talked about this on the Outside of Politics-- it's class reunion time. It's 25th class reunion for both of us. And watching how people think about that and navigate that, I think, says so much about how you felt about that phase. Because I don't think it's about just what happens during that phase of life, I think it's really about-- and I think Valerie gets at this with the comments about struggling with infertility. I think it's about how much you desired that phase of life, how much that phase of life just became big in your mind. I think marriage can do this when you're planning a wedding or you're engaged for a long time.
[00:09:05] And for me, when I think back to baby Sarah or little Sarah or high school Sarah, the idea that I would have my own family-- I think a lot of this has to do with the fact that my parents were all one of four children- which demographic change, hello. And those families filled an enormous place in our lives. Those were the center points of our life. It was not the small, immediate family of me, my stepfather, my mom. It was their families and their siblings, including my biological dad, lived in California. And still his family was like such a big part of my life. These big families with the siblings and the kids, and they always talked about growing up and what it was like when they were all in the house together. And so, it just became this big thing in my head. It just was something I wanted for myself that I grew up around and strived for. And I think that's part of it. It's like, how much did you want it? How hard did you work to get it?
[00:10:05] And I think for a lot of us, that sort of marriage and family thing was big. Not to mention if you just look at culture and movies and how many of our movies are really just about family life and having kids and getting married. And so, it just was huge. It was a huge thing for me to get married and have kids and have a lot of kids and have babies. And it just felt like I would never be pregnant and I would never have a baby. And now my babies are bigger than me, which is insane. It's just such a mind bend when the child that you produced from your own body is a giant person. It just is for everyone, everywhere. And so, I just think all of that just takes up a huge part of your brain and it changes you. That has to cement the memories in some really, I think, important way into not only the story of yourself, but your identity. And so, when it's all of a sudden they're going to go to college now and you don't get to fix some breakfast every morning, you're like, what do you mean? What do you mean?
Beth [00:11:20] I think for a couple of years I've been trying to guard against this by writing a story of my empty nester life. It's really big in my head and thinking about how can that chapter be extremely fun. But it is the truth that this is my favorite part of life that I've lived so far. Man, I love having these kids who are big enough to do a lot for themselves and to go run and play all day in the summer and come back and tell me about what's going on, and to ask me questions about this friend who hurt my feelings. This is a really fun part. To feel settled in my marriage, to be able to devote attention and care to my marriage, not just to parenting these kids, but to have it all happening at one time is really fun. I really, really like this phase and it will be really sad when we change to the next year. And I just want to keep thinking of things to look forward to in the next year, and I hope Valerie has lots of them. Because I can imagine that this is a hard go, and to have it come out of nowhere when you thought you had more time.
Sarah [00:12:23] I just think she should go to them and say, no thank you. I know we don't offer hard advice here at The Nuanced Life, but Valerie, I think you should say, "Thank you, but no thank you." It's too late now. This is coming out in July. Because I think to prepare for such a big transition and then all of a sudden for it to become sooner than you thought... I think this can happen in a lot of ways in life, like a child gets pregnant or somebody drops out of college. There's just all these ways that all of a sudden the things that we thought we were going to step through lockstep don't happen the way we thought. I mean, that definitely happened with diabetes. We were so close to really feeling like we're good, we can leave everybody by themselves. And then all of a sudden it was like, oh no, we cannot. And we've gotten a lot closer to that and we can leave them by themselves for short periods of time.
[00:13:16] But it's never fully where we're not thinking about it and checking Felix's blood sugar and thinking about that. That was really hard. It felt like it like got pulled away from us at the last minute when we were excited for that level of independence, because there's no not worrying about an independent type one diabetic child. That will probably be true when Felix is 35 years old. And it's just a manifestation that we always worry. I think that's what's hard with empty nesters. That phase of learning which you do learn with teenagers of, like, there's only so much you can control. But then it becomes there's not only so much you can control; there's only so much you know. And I think that's really intense. But it's just like you said, we spend so much time with them out in the world that it feels like you always want more time. I wanted more time with them as babies. I even wanted more time with them as toddlers, even though I am on the record as not loving that phase. It's just every piece of this parenting journey is so precious. And so, I just have a lot of empathy for Valerie because that's a lot. And it's a lot for it to come out of nowhere.
Beth [00:14:27] And I do want to hold that it is also precious and it's too much pressure to enjoy every moment. There are moments that are decidedly not enjoyable, and it is okay to not enjoy them too. Because I hate being in the mode of, like, this isn't going to last forever, and so I totally blew it if today we all acted like jerks to each other. It's just going to happen. It's just going to be part of it, too.
Sarah [00:14:52] Yeah, that's so true. Because every mother has had a screaming child at a checkout line where a very well-meaning stranger says, "The days are long, but the years are short."
Beth [00:15:05] Yeah, and that sucks. I don't want to be that person either.
Sarah [00:15:10] Because they're really just talking about them. They're just talking about how they didn't enjoy it. They're not really giving advice to you. And it's true. Also, it's annoying to hear and it's true. That's what makes it so annoying to hear, it's because you know it's true. And I think being able to walk that very fine line between everything is fleeting and you should enjoy it, and everything is fleeting and that doesn't mean every moment, holds the entirety of the experience. It's a balance.
Beth [00:15:41] And what's so hard is that you feel all of this so personally and so intensely. And as the mom, your experience of this is still the secondary experience like this is so much for Valerie, and we are identifying so hard with her. But there's a 16-year-old who's about to go to college, and that's the primary experience here. And that's really tough for Valerie to be supportive of and sensitive to and encouraging around as she's dealing with her own grief about this transition. That's a lot.
Sarah [00:16:16] I don't know, are there just two primary experiences here? I think maybe they're just two. Because I love that freaking reel. I know we've already talked about it once, but I'll bring it up again. This is also your mother's first trip through life. That is her primary experience. And also, that's the hard thing about a family. That's what we talked about in our caregiving show. Everybody is having simultaneous primary experiences that we're all supposed to share somehow, and it's very confusing.
Beth [00:16:42] And part of the deal as a mom is recognizing that you are in a supporting role for this little person's life. And you can have your own primary experience, but the way that you interact with them it is mostly about them. And I think that's beautiful. I love that part of being a mom. I love remembering how I react in this moment means something totally different to me and to Jane or Ellen. And we are writing multiple stories at once here. And having to kind of always keep that, yeah, it's really stressful and exhausting, but I also think it is one of the biggest gifts of being a parent. To step out of yourself enough to do that.
Sarah [00:17:26] Well, I always struggle with this because especially as the mom of boys, I often insert myself because I don't want them to learn that mothers are invisible and that we're just there to support and prop them up. I'm always sort of pushing against the expectation, especially as the mother of boys, that I am just in a supportive role. I'm like, I'm here too. I watched that poor woman on TikTok on Mother's Day cry her eyes out about I gave up everything for my children, and I left off my personal development and my career, and no one said a thing to me today. And I told my therapist, I said, "I just wanted to reach to the screen and say, go inside and tell them. Go inside and tell them and say, 'Hey, I matter. And I gave up a life for you, and I would like some appreciation and recognition. Thank you very much.'" Because I think that's tough as a parent to balance that support with also you don't want to erase yourself because that's not giving your child anything.
[00:18:34] I think teaching your children that both people are having primary experiences-- and they don't need to support you, obviously, but they are in relationship with you even as kids. And I try to teach that to Griffin. And, again, sometimes I worry I taught him too much. I'm like, is he too empathetic? Is that a thing? Because he does like, but how was your day? You seem stressed. Everything okay? It's something I've sort of thought about a lot with mothering. And my mother was like that. My mother was not let me sacrifice myself to you and you are the primary person here. That was not Lisa's vibe. Still is not Lisa's vibe, okay? I knew and understood the whole time that she was also having an experience that was important, and she was also having feelings and my decisions affected her and she had a right to tell me about that and she was going to. This constant balancing act is why I go to therapy and I keep talking about my therapist so much.
Beth [00:19:30] This, though, is a matter of calibration, not an either or. I don't think that I am as sacrificial as my mother was. And I think that she was more present in our house than her mother was. I think there is a continuum, and you got to find your place on that continuum where sometimes your kids know, wow, she went out for me here and it required something of her and I'm so grateful for that. And that built my confidence and that gave me the scaffolding I needed to get through a hard part in life. I wasn't so worried about her fragility, that she was that foundation for me that I needed her to be, but that also she taught me to respect other people. And she did not let herself sink into martyrdom or resentment. It's a calibration. And I think that calibration has to dial up its sensitivity as they get older, because they perceive it more, too. And I think that this moment where Valerie's daughter is being asked to make a leap a year early for her too is going to take a lot of sensitivity to the dynamics for both of them.
Sarah [00:20:40] Well, Valerie, we wish you the best with this. We also wish your daughter the best. It is an exciting transition, even if it is difficult as all transitions are.
[00:20:54] Music Interlude.
[00:21:04] I love the story we're going to share next. This is from Holly, and it's a curveball of a completely other type, because sometimes you get a curveball and it's built on a lot of history and experience in the future changes. And then sometimes you get a curveball where it's not built on shared connection and shared experience and shared history. Sometimes you get a curveball where the family itself is the unexpected surprise. So Holly's father was born to a teenage single mother in the 50s, and was adopted by his best friend's family in high school after his mother died. Now, fast forward almost 75 years, and Holly and her father complete an Ancestry.com kit. They find this extended family. They have their first phone call with her new aunt in June of 2024. She says "We talked for hours, but it felt like minutes." They fly out. They meet this family in August of 2024. She says it will go down as one of the highlights of her life. They have met dozens of families. Her father got to meet his three brothers and sisters. They are now in touch on a regular basis and she says, "I am not exaggerating when I say meeting them, knowing them and loving them has changed our lives forever." What a lovely curve ball that is.
Beth [00:22:31] I don't have any personal experience of having a question mark in my family tree. Especially something as significant as who is my dad's father? I just don't know what that would feel like. But I read Holly's note and thought, wow, just the visual of a missing piece being placed into a puzzle. You get chills and think about what it would mean to have a whole bunch of questions answered and to populate faces-- and not just one face, but all of the faces that grew out of that person's life. And to suddenly see how you're connected with them, I do think that's just incredibly special. And I know that there are many ways in which services like Ancestry.com are very fraught, but you hear so many stories like this of people putting those pieces together for themselves and finding so much connection and joy from it. And I'm thrilled for Holly and her family.
Sarah [00:23:34] Yeah, I'm sure Holly knows what a blessing her story is because so many-- and definitely I am endlessly fascinated by adoption. I will read any adoption long read. I will watch any adoption documentary. And what Holly is describing is part of the reason I find it so interesting and fascinating and important. Because we've spent a lot of time over the last few weeks here at The Nuanced Life talking about all the complexity of family, of the parent-child relationship when they're little, when they're grown, about caregiving, about family and faith. And we talked about how our expectations are often unmet and there's these resentments and it's all these very difficult components of being a family. And I think stories like this remind us that there is just something so special too, something so shared. I think about the stories I've read of adoptees who talk about, like, I just was different from my adopted family. There were just differences in a million little ways, and then I met my biological family and I thought, okay, these are my people. These are my people.
[00:24:53] And I just think about these this nurture nature conversation we have all the time and you hear stories and you realize how strong that nature component is; that in so many ways, blood is thicker than water. And it's almost like primordial. Like it is just evolutionary, cellular. And I think that's why it can be so complex, and that's why it can be so difficult. But we have a negativity bias, I think, particularly with our own families. I mean, how often have I had the conversation with my husband or my mother that I talk about how much I love you and how proud I am of you all the time to other people, but I don't ever tell you. We take our families for granted every day. And so, people who find their families, I think, have something so important and beautiful to show us and share with us about what we take for granted, about what we absorb being in a family that is just so precious, is just so incredibly precious.
Beth [00:26:06] Just this morning, my nine-year-old Ellen picked up my hand and she put hers on top of mine. And she just goes, "I like how my hand looks like your hand." And I thought that was so sweet. Especially because I frequently look at my hands and see my mom's hands now and think, wow, gosh, my hands really look like I remember my mom's hands looking when I was a kid. And I do think there's just something, like you said, instinctive about that. You can't think your way through why that matters, it just does. And so, to be able to see new hands and place yourself in a line, I think is an incredibly powerful thing. And how lucky, like you said, for it to be done with joy from everyone; that there was an openness on everyone's part to expanding that family picture. Because as much as some people live with that missing puzzle piece that they desire to find, there are lots of people living out there who are very invested in keeping the frame just around the group of people that are known to them, or who are chosen by them to be in their frames. And that's tough, too.
Sarah [00:27:25] Well, and look, I don't want to downplay that sometimes that connection is to people who've made horrible choices, or you see yourself sharing something you don't want to share with the people in your family. But I just think sometimes that becomes such a big part of the way we talk about families. And I never want to lose sight of this other component. Listen, I love Kacey Musgraves song Family is Family. They drink too much liquor and own too much wicker. I'd wash my hands of them, but blood is always thicker. Because there is something, there is a sense of belonging and connection and security. When we were in our 20s, Nicholas and I were watching some show on MTV where it was like they was lived experience. I don't remember the name of the show, but one of them was I'm Flat Broke. And at the end I started crying. I was like, I just can't imagine what that's like, being on the street feeling like you have no place to go. And he said, "What are you talking about? I worry about this all the time."
[00:28:33] It was mind blowing to me. I'm like, Nicholas, I could list 40 family members who would let us live with them indefinitely. Who would say, no, come here. You'll be here. Because I have such a large extended family who's always made me feel safe and loved, even when I was fighting with them, even when I'm frustrated with them. That sense that I'm surrounded. And I'm just so, so happy for Holly and her family that they add to that. They get to expand that circle. They get to close their eyes and look around them and see new faces.
[00:29:08] Music Interlude.
[00:29:20] We wanted to end today with Crystal's [sp] beautiful commemoration. It is an ode to the humble (but I believe very contributive) t-shirt quilt. I freaking love a t-shirt quilt, Beth.
Beth [00:29:36] Yeah, what a perfect way to make a time capsule, to preserve.
Sarah [00:29:40] Exactly.
Beth [00:29:42] It's a beautiful container for a lot of important memories. So let's pause for a moment to say to those of you who are not Midwesterners, the t-shirt quilt is exactly what it sounds like. You cut the t-shirts, you make them into quilting squares, you put them all together and suddenly you have a tapestry that represents your marching band days, or your youth soccer league, or all of the other things that we complain about when we're stacking up the "we have a brand-new t-shirt for every damn activity." This is the moment where you cherish those tee shirts, because you are going to turn them into something that is a lasting representation of that chapter of life.
Sarah [00:30:25] Listen, I just think we give a lot of glamor and attention to other things: photo albums, photo walls, videos. And look, I love all those things, but you can't wrap yourself up in a photo wall. Now, I am from the quilting capital of the world, Paducah, Kentucky; so I am prone to a passionate support of all things quilting. But I just think a t-shirt quilt is so good because you want to keep the t-shirts. You want to mark the time. You want to mark the journey. Crystal made a team Jeannie quilt because her sister was diagnosed with breast cancer, so she wanted to do something with all their team Jeannie t-shirts for the past 16 years. So she made a quilt. She's back to sewing. I'm telling you, t-shirt quilt, nothing better.
Beth [00:31:12] Well, and how wonderful to actually wrap yourself in the support that your family was giving you through this cancer journey. What else could be done with those t-shirts that would be a higher use? Nothing.
Sarah [00:31:26] Nothing. And then when you need them and you're like-- the other day, back to the class reunions, we were talking about our senior shirt. I was like, don't worry, guys. It's on my t-shirt quilt. I know exactly where it is. Pulled it right out because I have a t-shirt quilt of all my high school shirts. And honestly, I really like one for my college even though I'm 42. I guess it's never too late, right? I can make a t-shirt-- I can't make a t-shirt quilt, but I could ask someone and or pay someone to make this t-shirt quilt for me because I still have all of our sorority shirts, Beth, at the top of my closet.
Beth [00:31:55] Well, that's incredible. I do not have them anymore, but I'm not surprised that you do. I look at Ellen's theater shirts and think about the t-shirt quilts, because she's been in all these little productions and there's a different t-shirt for everyone. And I can just see it eventually that's where I'm going with her theater shirts.
Sarah [00:32:13] I had a friend, Jessica, in college, her mother had made it all the way from her baby jeans. I feel like I remember sitting on our quad on a quilt that her mother had made for her with her baby clothes in it. I'm just-- the t-shirt quilt, the humble t-shirt quilt because it can really hold more than t-shirts. It's like a memories quilt. Do you see what I'm saying?
Beth [00:32:34] It is.
Sarah [00:32:36] I just love it. I'm so happy for Crystal.
Beth [00:32:38] Crystal, what a gift.
Sarah [00:32:39] What a gift. Got to love a t-shirt quilt. Okay, thank you for joining us for another episode of the revival of The Nuanced Life, where we're tackling the messiness, everything from adoption journeys to the humble t-shirt quilt. We'll be back in your ears on Tuesday with an episode of Pantsuit Politics, and we hope you have the best weekend available to you.
[00:33:00] Music Interlude.
Sarah: Pantsuit Politics is produced by Studio D Podcast Production.
Beth: Alise Napp is our Managing Director. Maggie Penton is our Director of Community Engagement.
Sarah: Xander Singh is the composer of our theme music with inspiration from original work by Dante Lima.
Beth: Our show is listener-supported. Special thanks to our executive producers. Executive Producers: Martha Bronitsky. Ali Edwards. Janice Elliott. Sarah Greenup. Julie Haller. Tiffany Hasler. Emily Holladay. Katie Johnson. Emily Helen Olson. Barry Kaufman. Katherine Vollmer. Laurie LaDow. Lily McClure. Linda Daniel. The Pentons. Tracey Puthoff. Sarah Ralph. Jeremy Sequoia. Katie Stigers. Karin True. Onica Ulveling. Nick and Alysa Villeli. Amy Whited. Lee Chaix McDonough. Morgan McHugh. Jen Ross. Sabrina Drago. Becca Dorval. Christina Quartararo. Shannon Frawley. Jessica Whitehead. Samantha Chalmers. Crystal Kemp. Megan Hart. The Lebo Family. The Adair Family. Genny Francis. Leighanna Pillgram-Larsen. The Munene Family. Ashley Rene. Michelle Palacios.
Sarah: Jeff Davis. Melinda Johnston. Michelle Wood. Nichole Berklas. Paula Bremer and Tim Miller.