I Shouldn’t Be Telling You This with Chelsea Devantez
One of our dearest podcasting friends is Chelsea Devantez of Glamorous Trash. Today, Chelsea’s incredible memoir, I Shouldn’t Be Telling You This, enters the world. We invited her for a conversation about the book, her experience with domestic violence, being conceived with a sperm donor, and so much more. This is a rich, funny, deep conversation you won’t want to miss.
*This episode is explicit.
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TRANSCRIPT
Sarah [00:00:07] This is Sarah Stewart Holland.
Beth [00:00:09] This is Beth Silvers.
Sarah [00:00:10] You're listening to Pantsuit Politics.
Beth [00:00:12] Where we take a different approach to the news.
[00:00:14] Music Interlude.
[00:00:29] Thank you so much for joining us for a new episode of Pantsuit Politics. Today, we have a very special episode. Our friend Chelsea Devantez is here. And for me, the conversation we have with her about her life story has real resonance in light of everything going on in U.S. politics right now. More on that in just a second. First, we would like to invite you, ask you politely, implore you please, to take a listener survey for us. This is a survey created by our advertising partner, Acast. We don't do this very often, so when we do, it is important. We've shared with you several times that podcast advertising has been a bumpy ride in 2024.
[00:01:09] To be blunt about it, industry factors around advertising have really hurt our small business, and we feel like we're in a rebuilding period, so we really need your help in that rebuilding process. This is not a super fun survey to take, but it is very important to us. Our goal is for only 375 of you to complete this survey, which will help us identify advertisers who make things you'll want to hear about. It'll help us write better ads, and most importantly, it will help us recover from the total calamity that this part of our business has experienced. So, the link will be in the show notes and on Instagram. And if you can't find it, just email us. We'll send it to you. When we have 375 responses, I promise you we'll stop talking about this. So please help us with this goal and thank you so much for all the ways that your generosity and encouragement keep us running during some pretty choppy times.
[00:02:04] We also have a celebration to share with you. On Sunday night, Chad and I attended the Nancy and David Wolf Holocaust and Humanity Center Upstander Awards in Cincinnati, Ohio. These awards recognize people using their strengths to stand up for themselves and others. Hundreds of people were nominated. I got to meet and learn about some of them, and it is an absolutely incredible group of people out doing the kind of work that makes you smile and cry and feel a sense of humility and awe and unshakable hope. And because of the caliber of people who were nominated and chosen as finalists, I was absolutely shocked when Sarah and I received the Upstander Regional Irwin Hurley Award for Perspective.
[00:02:54] Irwin Hurley lived in Northern Kentucky. He was deployed to Europe during World War Two, and his son and his wife were there for the ceremony, and his son gave me a letter, along with the award, that Mr. Hurley had written to his wife, Marjorie, on May 16th, 1945. In that letter, Hurley, who did many things to stand up for justice and equality and humanity during his career, wrote about what he saw at Dachau, one of the largest concentration camps in Germany. He wrote about the incredible cruelty he had seen firsthand. And even as he was watching and waiting for the war to end, he was looking around him and forward with a lot of insight and compassion. So, I want to share this brief paragraph from the letter with you, because I'll be thinking about it for a long time.
[00:03:50] He wrote, "The German people are completely conquered- of that I am most certain. But it's the young ones from 15 to 22 or 23 that we have to worry about. They never knew anything except Hitlerism. It is this group, even though aware of the horrors of Dachau, shrug their shoulders and shut their eyes to it, disregard it, or rather ignore it as if it didn't exist. They are the dangerous ones to the future of this nation. Ponder for a minute if you and I would have been reared in that atmosphere. Never had the opportunity of knowing anything else, if we would have been any different. Maybe, maybe, I hope so, but not too sure." I will read this letter 100 times and keep it in my heart.
[00:04:37] I cannot tell you how honored and touched I was to receive this award on behalf of Pantsuit Politics. And when I say that, I mean not just for Sarah and me, or for Sarah and me and Alise and Maggie, but for all of us. Because everything that creates that upstander ripple effect happens way beyond our audio files. It's the way you listen and reflect and discuss and everything that you do in your families and communities. I wish I could put this gorgeous trophy and letter in the mail and send it on a little tour to every single one of you listening. Thank you to the Nancy and David Wolf Holocaust and Humanity Center for this tremendous honor, and for all of the work that happens there. It is vital to our community.
[00:05:20] So last week was very intense. I know I am still processing the verdict in former President Trump's criminal trial. We hear from many of you that you are as well. There's so much happening in the world, but in my life, the verdict is dominating my conversations. The verdict, and more specifically, the way people are reacting to it. It seems like no matter who I'm talking to or the context in which we're talking, this comes up. I've seen many social media posts. I know you're seeing them too. You're sending them to us. We're all processing. Some of these posts from people I love, I still, after all of this, find surprising and really startling. I started to respond to one of them this week, and I wrote several things because I love this person and I respect this person, and I care about this person.
[00:06:11] But I just stopped myself because I was overwhelmed with a sense that right now, my work is just to stay connected, to keep loving people, and to keep trying to understand where they're coming from. To keep remembering that everybody has a story and I don't know their full story even when I think I do. And so, people get where they get for reasons that I don't always understand. And today's guest helps me learn and relearn that idea, that we don't know everyone's stories, but everyone has this story that is a rich text for who they are today. Our dear friend, Chelsea Devantez, is here for a conversation about her life stories. Her life is detailed in her funny and poignant book, I Shouldn't Be Telling You This, (But I'm Going to Anyway), which is out today. I want you to know that Sarah and I absolutely adore Chelsea. Before we read the book, we I think would have both said Chelsea is glamorous and successful and creative.
[00:07:07] She's funny, she's generous, she is wicked smart. She's deeply thoughtful. She's vulnerable in that way that invites everyone to be vulnerable. But we did not know many of the stories behind all of that wonder. And Chelsea is here to share them today. I know you will be enriched as I was by listening to her. One quick note, this conversation includes a discussion of domestic violence and explicit language, so please take care as you listen. Here is our beloved Chelsea Devantez. Chelsea Devantez, we're so happy to have you back at Pantsuit Politics. You're one of our favorite people in the whole world, and now you've written an amazing book that we get to talk to you about. So, thank you for doing that so that we just have an excuse to get together again. I'm sure that was on your mind when you wrote it.
Chelsea Devantez [00:08:00] It was. Y'all are my favorite people. I love this friendship. You light up my life. Beth, I got to see you at a librarian conference that I had flown into Ohio for.
Beth [00:08:10] That feels right too.
Chelsea Devantez [00:08:14] And, Sarah, I get to see you soon. Yeah, this has been, like, the biggest light in my life. It's being able to know you guys. I'm just forever thankful to Apple podcast spotlight program and for a DM. I'm so happy to be here.
Sarah [00:08:28] Truth to that. Okay. Tell us about this book. Because we've written books, but we haven't written memoirs, which is a real emotional undertaking.
Chelsea Devantez [00:08:41] Yes, definitely been intense. I think talking to you both, even just about the publishing process, was still so helpful. And this is- I call it a comedy memoir. Okay? Because I'm a comedy girl. It could live on the shelf next to Mindy Kaling or Tina Fey, but this one is half comedy and half absolutely harrowing trauma. And so, if you want both at the same time, if you want jokes next to like, "Oh, God," this is the book for you.
Sarah [00:09:12] I mean, I think there's a Venn diagram there. I got a lot of people with that preference, like the Morbid Barbie. Do you know how many people sent me that "Do you ever think about dying?" That's it. This is it, guys.
Chelsea Devantez [00:09:23] That is exactly it. It's the kind of book I like. I like a really, really dark book that also has light parts and jokes. But it is dark. I do need people to know that. Basically, every chapter is a different woman's name in my life. Just growing up, women have saved me, they have rescued me, they have ruined me. Some of the women are heroes. Some of them are villains. But what are both of those things? A leading role. And we do love women in a leading role. And I love to center women's stories. And so, you learn about a lot of different, nuanced women in my life and complicated women, while also learning about my life.
Beth [00:10:03] I know that you are such a tight writer, like the construction of work is really important to you. And I wonder how that felt going from writing a lot of jokes to writing the more harrowing trauma parts of the book.
Chelsea Devantez [00:10:19] Very, very, very hard. I think one of my many big struggles when writing this is that I do think and like to think that I do know what a good story structure is, what a good, tight story structure is. I write fictional TV. And so, then you also have to write the truth when it's a memoir. It's just what happened. I would see these stories in my life and I'd be like, "Too much. Oh, my God, too much happened here." And the fictional part of my brain knows that this story isn't going well. And there's too many twists and turns or there's too many dark parts, or it's like it's really way too long. And then you have to go and be like, but that is what happened. So how loyal am I going to be to what happened, and how much am I going to try and make it a good story? And for me, a memoir, it just has to be true. It's not fun if it's not true. And so, I was like, it has to be true, but that also means there's some chapters in the book where I'm like, "Damn, I wish I could cut this in half." Because I wish I could have cut it in half in my life. I wish I could have only experienced half of it.
Sarah [00:11:25] I mean. We are friends. But we are business, podcasting, friends. And usually every time we see each other, we're just catching up and we're just like, "Tell me everything." But I also follow you on social media, so I get this insight into your life. So, I had a real relationship, a parasocial relationship, but I didn't have any idea of what you'd been through.
Chelsea Devantez [00:11:48] Did it surprise you? Or did you see it coming? I'm just curious.
Sarah [00:11:53] No. Look, I mean, everybody's like this. I have a friend, Elizabeth, who I've known her for 20 years, and she'll just roll up, like, "Did you know I was in Edward Scissorhands?" No, Elizabeth, I didn't know you were in Edward Scissorhands. I think this is true of everybody. I think we integrate our stories. But when you put a lot of the stories back-to-back to back, you're like, wow! I've really been through some shit. And so, I didn't think anything about you. I just thought that this is why these books are powerful, is because we assume we know people, especially if we have some sort of parasocial relationship. I mean, anybody that followed you along your wedding journey is, like, "I know Chelsea. Chelsea and I are best friends. I know her because I have followed every bit of this wedding journey."
Chelsea Devantez [00:12:42] I voted on her wedding dresses.
Sarah [00:12:44] "I voted on her wedding dresses. I know what's on the centerpieces." And you just forget that there is so much to a person and you. But I also want to say objectively, you have some stories that took my breath away. The amount of them, the depth of them to be who you are and have gone through all that and to be able to write about it, was mind blowing to me.
Chelsea Devantez [00:13:07] Thank you for all the nice words and also, no, I agree. When I did the audiobook, I was like how am I alive? No, I mean, listen, a lot of people go through a lot of things, but when I read it back, I was like, "Jesus Christ, this is too much to even remember." So, yes.
Sarah [00:13:28] But I think that that's the power. It's the impact. And you know this better than anyone reading these stories all the time for your podcast and reading memoirs. And I think that balancing act you're doing as an entertainer, as a person who writes fictional TV, as a comedian, as a lover of memoir, as a person who's leading this community of women, all of that shine through. I felt you pulling those reins and tapping those skills to tell this story that contains a lot. And I think that that is what comes across on the page just over and over and over again, this sense of, like, I've been through a lot and I'm doing a lot here, and I'm just so excited you're along with me.
Chelsea Devantez [00:14:13] I'm so happy that's what you got from it. I think it's so terrifying to basically print out your gynecological exam in detail and be like, what do you guys think? And so, I'm so happy you got that. And, yeah, I definitely have on the podcast this theme of women who are told they're too much. And when I read about them, I'm like, no, you're like phenomenal and give me more. And I think it's really helped me understand and sit with, like, I am a fucking lot. But also, that's what I like in other women. So, I'm not going to feel bad about it anymore.
Sarah [00:14:46] Yeah.
Beth [00:14:46] So I want to ask you about part of the a lot that couldn't really be in the book, but that is still in the book and the decision making that you made about it. So, you allude to a big scary domestic violence story, and you include redacted sections of the book that you wrote and then were told you could not publish. And I thought that was an incredibly powerful choice that you made. It said so much, every time I got to those black boxes, about you and your strength as a person, and also about women and domestic violence and patriarchy and all the things. That was really beautiful to me. And I would love to know how you arrived at the decision to include what you were told you could not include.
Chelsea Devantez [00:15:33] I'm so happy you saw this as beautiful. I'm currently in this place where the book comes out in like three to four weeks. And I'm really grieving those black bars pretty intensely right now. I think I was able to compartmentalize for a long time and just not think about that decision and what had happened, and now it's like really hitting me. And I might cry in your podcast.
Sarah [00:15:58] I cry every week on our podcast [crosstalk].
Chelsea Devantez [00:16:00] Thank God. I do know that, yes. And I cry on my podcast. So, I went through a very intense domestic violence situation when I was very, very, very young. And it really shaped every single thing about me. I call it my origin story, and people who love me are like, "No, you're more than that." And I do love that sentiment, but I'm not. And you don't get to choose. It really did make me, for better or for worse-- just Kidding, definitely for the worse. And it was just so intense and getting away from it was intense. And then 10 years later, it came back. And I also kept it a secret for decades because it's so funny you hear about shame and people being like, it's not your fault. And Matt Damon is crying on the couch with Robin Williams, like, "It's not my fault.".
[00:16:55] But I really thought it was such a gross story. And I didn't want to be that girl. I didn't want to be the type of girl that that could happen to you. As if I could have been in control of that. I think I said in the book, like, I pretended to have a normal past so that I could have a normal future. I just wanted to be like a really funny, liked comedian. And I didn't want to be this girl that those things could happen to. And so, I didn't talk about it. And, finally, with my podcast and this book, I decided to talk about it for the first time publicly. And, yeah, I was told it was too dangerous to include it after I'd already written everything. Which meant going back into court documents and talking to people who witnessed it and reading my journals. It was really intense and horrible to go back and do it. And I just would never have written a memoir if I had known that couldn't be included, because that is my life.
[00:17:58] That story is still currently the obstacle I'm wrestling with. And so, when all that came in it, I had already written it. It was done. And so, I think the message I want to impart is that I was quiet about it. I became a successful comedian. I know famous people. I have savings. I have lawyers now. I definitely could wear a girl boss t-shirt. I feel like I'm like a I'm a lady who gets things done. And I was not allowed to talk about it. So, imagine any victim of domestic violence with even an ounce less. And how the systems are just set up for you to fail, even in the name of protection. And I tried everything to find other ways to include it and was shut down and so I canceled the book because I couldn't imagine-- it would just be a lie to put out my life story without that piece of it. And finally, my husband was like, "Why don't you just black it out?" And I was like, man, yeah. I think that's the only option. It was the only thing they said yes to. And I think it was a begrudging yes.
[00:19:17] And I was just so fucking livid. And I needed readers to know that they were taking this thing away. It took so long to share it, I just needed people to know that something was gone and that they had done this to me. And then I pushed the book through. And now, a year later, I wish I had had the courage to ask for more time so that I could have put those stories in the middle. Because I don't think it's a reader friendly experience to open up a book and it has black bars in the first and last chapter. And I think also, Beth, as you said, I love structure. And I had structured this thing that happened when it came back 10 years later. That was the whole structure of this book. And instead of putting a new storytelling device in, I just blacked it out. And because I was just grieving and I was so mad and I just wanted to tell everyone to go fuck themselves. And now, a year later, I wish I had been able to write a better book instead. But I think my anger blocked it and I couldn't.
Beth [00:20:26] You know what, Chelsea? I just want to say, I thought that that was an announcement that this was going to be a very honest book and a courageous book. I thought it was an announcement that this isn't your average memoir.
Chelsea Devantez [00:20:40] Really nice.
Beth [00:20:41] And I think it worked. And I'm so sorry that that happened to you. And I would like to punch someone at your publisher. Sorry.
Chelsea Devantez [00:20:48] I would love to send you an address.
Beth [00:20:54] I think as a reader, it really drew me in. And I thought, this is a person I want to know. A person who has the courage to open this way is a person I want to know.
Chelsea Devantez [00:21:03] Thank you. I hope that's how people experience it. I do know there will be people who it's just too much for. And I think that's also just something I had to accept. When you go through something like that, yeah, you're fucked up, man. I'll forever have this fucked up piece of me. It's part of me. It's who I am. And you can't deal with it, then I'm probably not for you. And I wish it wasn't there too.
Sarah [00:21:31] I texted you at the time when I was reading it because I think you have to hold two things here-- maybe more than two. For you, I feel exactly like Beth. I'm furious that you did this work and we're not allowed to tell your story. That is an injustice. That is a crime. It is a crime that furthers another crime.
Chelsea Devantez [00:21:51] So many crimes.
Sarah [00:21:53] And it is so many crimes. And it's really fucking unacceptable. And you deserved better. And I want to hear you someone say that to you. You did not deserve that. You deserve to tell your story the way you wanted to tell your story. Period. Full stop. So that's for you. That's the author of the book, right? But I have to hold this other piece because once we write something, it's out, right?
Chelsea Devantez [00:22:14] Yeah.
Sarah [00:22:15] It's for the reader. It's for whoever reads it. And there's a part of me that's like it is a struggle when you get to the black boxes. But what else should a story like that be for a reader? Should it be easy? Should it be some easy walk through? And that's what I told you at the time when I was reading it, I thought, no, this is how it should feel. I have two aunts that have survived domestic violence. And even with someone with a family experience, even with someone who's been afraid of men in my past, I just think it's a psychological thing we do that when we get the details-- it's why true crime are so fucking popular. Because when we get the details, we start rehearsing what we would have done different. It's just what people do. I wish it were different, but it's not. It's what we do. I think it's a survival-- I don't know
Chelsea Devantez [00:23:03] Yeah, women preparing.
Sarah [00:23:03] Yeah. It's a prepare. It's not a judgment, but it is what we do. And you made that impossible. The black boxes make it impossible to do that. And so, all you can do is say, I have to be here with Chelsea, and I have to keep pushing through because this happened to her, and I'm interested in her story. And when you get to the part where you're like, "I can see who I was across the room. She's there, I see her."
Chelsea Devantez [00:23:28] Don't make me cry again.
Sarah [00:23:30] Please go on. I immediately put it down and texted like three of my friends and am like, "You will read this. You will understand." I read it to my friend Kate. She was like, "Yeah, that's it. She's there, I see her, but she that's not me anymore." I think that, like I said, I have to hold this, that this was not fair and you did not deserve this. And also, I think it is an enormously affecting and impactful storytelling device because it doesn't allow you to do that and because it focuses on what matters, which is how it impacted you in both at the beginning and at the end, and doesn't let us get caught up in the details and what we would have done differently.
Chelsea Devantez [00:24:14] Yeah. Well, thank you. I think I had this feeling of when it happened-- I think what's wildest to me is when it happened it's like no one deserves that to happen to them, you know? Then when it came back, it was like, holy shit, that didn't deserve to happen. And I just felt like I never got to stand up for myself and fight for myself because I was always so deeply in the throes of trauma. I think that's also why crimes and verdicts and all these things always go so awry because you're just fully in the trauma when you're going through the court process. And so, I thought like, well, this time there's been time, I'm going to beat it. I'm really going to beat it.
[00:24:57] And it's just wild for the same thing to happen over and over and over, no matter what stage I'm at in life. And I think I really wanted to do something special which is I'm a comedian; those stories are always written as, like, can you believe this crazy thing happened that you could never relate to? And I wanted to write it with specificity and jokes, because I know for a fact you would never see me online and vote on my wedding dresses and think that that had happened to me. Because we never think it's the woman next to us. And it is. It's the women in the grocery store. It's one of your friends. It's a relative. It could be you. I didn't see myself in a domestically violent relationship. And I had watched my mom be in them. But I thought it was different. You always think it's different because domestic violence is actually quite boring.
[00:25:54] It's quite mundane and it just feels so normal. It's really hard to see yourself as the big scary headline. It's just that that doesn't compute, you know? Even when I wrote down what happened in the book, I read it back and I'm like, "Holy shit, that is so intense. I can't believe I survived that." But when I go and sit in my memories, when I go and sit and visualize the room I was in, it just feels like I can't believe this is fucking happening. God this is horrible. But you don't think, like, I'm about to die. And so, I wanted to impart all that. And that's the part that I grieve not being able to put in there, because I think the way these stories are talked about, it always creates so much distance between you and the person who went through it. And I just don't think that distance is actually there in real life.
Beth [00:26:47] Well, I think a lot of that came through, even though we couldn't get all of your words. I really do. I read your book with a real sense of marks in time, like the before and the after this event. This is a thing that changed things for me. It was the before me and an after me. Which is something that Sarah and I talk a lot about politically. We'll talk about something in the news, like, is this one of those before and after markers? But I had not really seen it done so effectively in terms of a person's life. Even some of the really light, hilarious stories in the book-- and I don't want to spoil any of those-- but even some of those, I read it and I thought, wow, this is like a before and after moment. And what I really valued about that is that it's kind of helped me think about my own day to day with a little bit more interest that you don't really know when you're in a before and after. But I loved how occasionally you would say, "Looking back, maybe this is the moment we actually broke up. We didn't until later, but maybe that was it." And I just found that really helpful.
Chelsea Devantez [00:27:51] I love that so much. And, yeah, you're talking about this breakup I had with this guy where it's like have you ever had one of those breakups where-- I was with this person almost five years, and we broke up, we cried all night, in the morning I was absolutely ready to have sex with someone else. I was like, I could go on a brunch date. And I was like, I was with this person for five years, I sobbed last night, but we'd been broken up for so long. And I think women especially can grieve a relationship while they're inside a relationship. And the day it's done, they're ready to live my best life. Moving on. We had broken up so long ago before the actual breakup.
Sarah [00:28:34] Well, and the other thing I really appreciate is the way you bring this new perspective. And there were two parts of the book where I thought, oh, this is cracking it wide open in a way I've been very hungry for. One is you had a friendship betrayal, and you write so vulnerably about friendship betrayals and friendship breakups. Because we don't do it, and we're getting better. I have two books that I recommend to people because that's all I know that have been written so far about friendship even though it plays such a huge role in our lives. And I thought the way you wrote about this-- and I am team Chelsea. So, I was defensive of you, but also said "Now looking back on it, this is my role in it," was so helpful and so contributed because we do not have enough writing about friendships and how impactful they are, especially when they end.
Chelsea Devantez [00:29:26] Yeah, I totally agree. And I was also writing that in including enough-- I was including so much detail because I was just thinking I would have needed to read this when I was going through it. So let me put this here for anyone who's going through it. Yeah, I definitely saw-- I call her Rebecca in the book. I really saw her as the villain. I planned out some pretty elaborate revenge. I was like, and then I'm going to get my own show and I'm going to do... And she's not going to get that part. I had so much pain and hate in my heart for her. Basically, it's so funny with this friendship breakup.
[00:30:04] I've had two of them. And in both friendships, I had the same role, which is that they have pushed me away and been so fucking mean to me that I break up with them. So, I've always been the one being, like, this friendship is over. But it's like as I'm falling off a cliff where I'm like, "And fuck you too," while they've shoved me off the cliff. And because those were so similar, I really had to examine, okay, what do I keep doing in these relationships? And what I kept doing is-- and I still do it, I have to fight it every day. Which is that I even see you guys and I go, you're my everything, we'll be ride or dies, we're going to do everything until the day we die. Honestly, I'll fly anywhere for you tomorrow. You tell me.
Sarah [00:30:43] This is bad. This is also my energy.
Chelsea Devantez [00:30:45] But I'm just, like, 100%. You were married. I believe in you and trust in you. You could never hurt me. I put up no boundaries and I end up taking up too much space in the relationship because I just think we can do everything together. And when you are the person who is too much, you need to be with a person who is capable of saying, "I can only give this much. And then you need to be able to respect that boundary." But I was in relationships where the person could never say that, so they ended up lashing out in other weird ways. And I never respected or saw boundaries as a good thing. I saw not having boundaries meaning we're so close. Whereas, now I see boundaries in every single relationship of mine as the thing that's making the relationship healthy. However, I'm fucking addicted to a boundaryless friendship, and I wish I could go back every day of my fucking life. Like tomorrow you're, like, you could actually go back to being in that toxic friendship, I would be like, "Yay! my favorite ruin."
Sarah [00:31:44] I feel that so hard. And I'm an only child. I always try to be an only child. You're not even an only child. I'm always, like, I'm just trying to find a sibling, okay? I just want a sibling so bad. And I think it is true. And I think because when we don't talk about it, when we don't write about it, we can't also do the self-reflection. You can't do what you can't see. And if nobody's saying, man, what role did I play in this friendship? Because what women are told is BFFs. That's the model, end of story. Good talk. This is the model of friendship. BFFs, and then you die with all your BFFs.
Chelsea Devantez [00:32:19] Well, it's funny, I tried to get Rebecca to go to couples therapy with me. And she was like, no, we're 26 years old. And she was sort of, like, "I don't want to be in a relationship with you that needs couples therapy. I want to be in a relationship with a romantic partner that goes to couples therapy." What we have here is too much, but plot twist-- and I barely wrote about it in the book, so I'll say it here. I gave her that essay that I wrote. So basically, I wrote this whole essay, for two years I processed and wrote this book. Then I got a text on my birthday, and it led to us meeting in person and her apologizing. And she sat down and she was like, "First off, I just want to let you know I'm not mad at you for anything." And I was like, "What do you have to be mad about? This is all your fault."
[00:33:05] But for her she was like, "You literally left me. You abandoned me." And I'm like, "Because you made me." And she's like, "I never thought you'd actually go. I can't believe you did that to me." And I was, like, you did it. And so, I said I actually have written about us and I thought the ethical, loving thing to do was give it to her. And that if she had anything to say of, like, please don't include this or I really think you got this part wrong, that I would be open to hearing it. And she read it and she only had one note, which is don't call yourself dowdy. Because I had called myself dowdy at one point. She was like, "LOL, you were never dowdy."
Sarah [00:33:49] Never, no. never would that be a word I'd use, but yes, I agree.
Chelsea Devantez [00:33:52] And she was like, obviously, I see some things differently, but this is your story. I'm never going to stop you. And she was like, publish it as is. And it brought us back together.
Sarah [00:34:03] Amazing!
Chelsea Devantez [00:34:07] Yeah. It's funny because when we get around each other, we could immediately go back to that friendship. Like, there's this electricity that I have to just like as I have to go, but we go very slow with each other. We can't text too much. We can't see each other too much. We have to be really healthy this time. But this is someone who I plotted revenge against. I never thought I would ever forgive her. I never wanted to forgive her, ever. And now as the book is coming out, we are friends again. And I'm like, holy shit! That's crazy to me.
[00:34:38] Music Interlude.
Beth [00:34:49] Chelsea, I want to know even more, I guess, about the boundaries that keep relationships working for you. Because the wrinkle in the Rebecca story is that there was a professional relationship as well as this personal friendship, and that's hard. And I would love to know, because that is not a thing that will ever go away for you probably. You're in a collaborative, creative profession. You are friends with a lot of women who do the same kind of work that you do. And I would just love to know what's Chelsea's guide to having healthy professional friendships?
Chelsea Devantez [00:35:26] I wish I had good advice, but I only have my personal experience, which is that. And I hope it changes for me one day. I'm not allowed to be in a 50-50. I'm just not. And it's because I love work. And on top of that, it's pretty specifically tied to my mental health. So, the amount of work I can do is insane because it's tied to my brain. And I love it and it makes me feel better. And then when you're in a partnership, you wake up in the morning and I've fucking done it all. And I'm like, where are you? Get to it, get to it. You know, this, this, this. And they can't keep up and participate in the way I want to move. They want me to slow down and I want them to speed up. And it'll just always be resentful.
[00:36:20] I hope not always. I am honestly like very lonely hosting a podcast by myself and all the time I just have this ghost of Rebecca where I'm like, I wish she was hosting this with me. I'm so fucking lonely and I know that I can't because I will always want more than someone else is able to give. And so, I guess when it comes to boundaries, I have a business partner, Jordan, you know who I'm really like, oh, she could become my Rebecca, be very careful. And we had to have this talk where she was like, "You are too much." And I was like, this is my fucking theme. I'm going to throw myself in front of a car. How am I still here? And it's because the other person needs to know how to say, "You want five cookies? I can only give you two."
Sarah [00:37:08] Yeah.
Chelsea Devantez [00:37:08] They have to say that. And if they cannot say that, they are not upholding their end of the relationship. You have to say what you can and cannot do. Then it is my job to say, "I accept those two cookies, thank you," and go get my three elsewhere. That's my end of the bargain. And that, I guess, is like boundaries with my husband, with my friends of, like, the person who can only give so much needs to say so, and the person who needs more needs to like find other ways to fulfill themselves. And I don't know if any of that was helpful at all, but that's where I'm at.
Sarah [00:37:40] No, I think that as a person who is also a lot, I don't say too much because I reject that formulation. I do not believe you are too much. I do not believe I am too much. I do not believe Delta Burke is too much. Do you know what I'm saying here, Chelsea?
Chelsea Devantez [00:37:50] Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Sarah [00:37:52] I think that it's exactly what you said. Everyone is adults here. And I think that there is particularly a narrative around women that you can never ask because if you ask and the answer is no, it was your fault for asking in the first place. And that is a fucking lie. And I will not live my life like that.
Chelsea Devantez [00:38:16] Yeah, or the pressure. I'm also a people pleaser. It's like, you want to do this? And it's like, I can't say no. Yes. Yes, of course. Yes. I say yes to things I don't want to do all the time. Like, that's not good either. You got to know how to say no. And I also think in our specific professional relationship, Rebecca was, like, in a very toxic way, said no to working together. And for her she was like, and now we can be friends because I am severing this working together. And for me, I could never forgive someone who had just ruined seven years of work for me and my happiness. I think her true happiness was being successful in this career alone. And my true happiness still to this day is being successful with someone else. So, what fucking irony is it that I'm goddamn alone in this brand?
Sarah [00:39:12] I bet you said, "I'll never be able to forgive someone," but you were and you did. You were capable of that, and you did.
Chelsea Devantez [00:39:18] Yes, but every time I see her, I think to myself-- I'm so emotional. I'm just like, "How could you do this? You're supposed to be sitting here with me. We're supposed to have a podcast where we discuss celebrity memoirs. We're supposed to have a memoir that we wrote together. I can't believe you threw that away. And now I have to do it by myself because I'm crazy and I won't stop." But, like, how could you do that? How could you throw that away? I love her so much, but...
Sarah [00:39:46] But the older I get, I just think that's aging. I just think that is the walk-through life. I think everyone has their thing. Everyone has their "How could you? I thought it was going to go this way." Getting to where we're with Julia Louis-Dreyfus and we're having the Wiser Than Me conversation, getting to that point is not having those moments, it's just understanding that everybody does. It's not making the mistake. It's not going down the path you didn't think you were going to. It literally is universal. It's deciding how you're going to feel about it on the other end. And to me in this book is like you're doing the work. You're figuring out how you feel about that. You're seeing that path and it's acknowledging that I didn't take that path. It's the people who either keep down the path and refuse to acknowledge that the path has changed, or just compartmentalize and just drop off. That's the dangerous zone to me.
[00:40:33] Not that inevitably in life things happen to us that we can't control and we go down a path, but that you have to decide how you feel about it. And I think the book is such a good-- you're like, do it. I felt you sweating and wrestling and being like, how do I feel about this? And I think that that is the best. Like, that's what you want from an author. And that takes me to my second thing. Thirty minutes ago, I said there were two things that you cracked open for me, which was being the product of artificial insemination, which you learned about later in life. I think this is an endlessly important, endlessly political, endlessly personal emotional topic in American life. That it does feel like people like you are leading us into a new path, a new journey saying, "Okay, we have a narrative, but I would like to disrupt that narrative because that narrative is one dimensional and reductive. And you need to listen to my story now."
Chelsea Devantez [00:41:33] Well, we're all finally old enough. It's funny. I'm like, of course, we all know what this is, but let me say it for anyone who doesn't really know what I'm talking about. I am donor conceived. Which means, for me, my biological dad is an anonymous sperm donor with my mom. There's also versions where people have egg donors with their father's sperm, and there's versions where both parts of you are donated- the egg and the sperm. And so, I was conceived in the 80s and when I was conceived-- this is like if you need a new true crime genre, oh my God, go down the fucking sperm donor fertility world. This shit is so dark.
Sarah [00:42:16] When you said that Christmas everybody gets 23andMe for Christmas and then all the Facebook groups lit up with people, I was like, I can't.
Chelsea Devantez [00:42:24] Sibling season.
Sarah [00:42:26] Sibling season. I could not.
Chelsea Devantez [00:42:29] When they were making us-- and I'm sure earliest artificial insemination was maybe like 1870, I don't know. But it really actually started happening a tiny bit in the 60s, more in the 70s, and then really in the 80s. And during that time, every scientist you ever spoke to, every doctor participating in this could not fathom that there would be commercial DNA testing available one day. Because you need to have the internet to even connect with those people. Who could conceive of the fucking internet in the 70s? And so, they made these decisions believing that no one would ever know. So, they believed-- these idiot doctors were, like, sometimes they lied to the parents. They told the parents to lie to the children. When the parents knew, they said no one will ever find out. It's psychologically better for people to not know.
[00:43:23] And crazy things happened where doctors would be like, "Yes, I inseminated you with your husband," but he would been using his own sperm. And this is where we find out one doctor creating hundreds of kids. It happened so fucking much. Because also they weren't all in cahoots. Separately all over the world, these doctors were like-- I mean, that's some shit where it's like this eugenic. It's also based in eugenics. Hahaha! Love that. So, they're all like, and let's make these kids wider. And basically. So, they made all these decisions in the dark and they no one ever gave a fuck about the actual kid being produced. And that's still true to this day. Most narratives, most people are going, my fertility journey. What is our fertility story? How do I have a kid? And they don't really think about that kid's going to grow up one day and they could get online and they're going to find this donor. And in my opinion, it's almost always horrible.
[00:44:22] It's almost always horrible. You're almost always finding a doctor who sexually assaulted 100 clients. I quoted this in my book, Sarah, you sent me this article on text and you're like, "Did you see this guy who has 96 children and he's meeting them on TikTok?" This is a guy who was drunk on campus and needed to pay off his lawyer, so he just in a cup for several years. And then you one day find out, like, that's your fucking dad. I'm so far from my personal story at this point, but what I wanted to say is that, like, Kerry Washington is our very first famous person who has come out as donor conceived. We know people who have been adopted. We have famous adoptees. But she's the first person been like, "Hey, oh my God, I'm donor conceived.".
[00:45:03] There's maybe like a dozen books. Inheritance is the most popular one. But being a donor conceived person, there's not a lot of us who are extremely public. And I'm starting that journey and it's, like, very scary. But there is estimated to be at minimum 1 million of us in this country. There's 30,000 to 60,000 of us created every year in the 80s. And again, I say estimated because they actively burned the records. They destroyed the records. They never kept records. They thought it was better for everyone. So, there's only ever been a handful of studies on what it's done to us psychologically. And, I've talked a lot now, but yeah, so that's in the book.
Sarah [00:45:49] Chelsea, when I had my bingo card for 2024, I did not have your memoir overlapping with the latest treatise from the Pope. But they do. I mean, they do because you both talk about--.
Chelsea Devantez [00:46:03] What did the pope say?
Sarah [00:46:05] My best friend Is Catholic, so we talk about this a lot. And the Catholic position commodifies babies. It's a commodification. That is the concern.
Chelsea Devantez [00:46:15] I have this line in the book where I say it's a really popular phrase to say you can't put a price on a child, but in my case you can. And it was $50. And I actually adjusted that for inflation. In the 80s, it was 20 bucks.
Sarah [00:46:26] Oh, my god. And I think it's so important not only for those million people, but because it is reflective and it's a manifestation of so many other things. This sort of wild, wild West medical ethics we have in the United States where it's like, what if everybody figured out? Even if you guys thought it would stay quiet, anybody concerned about half siblings? No. Yes. Maybe not. Guess not.
Chelsea Devantez [00:46:50] No. I think people don't fathom because also so often it happens locally in your area. So, it's like now we have cases and it's very shameful. There's more of them, but people stay quiet. Like there's currently a woman right now suing because she was in a relationship with her half-brother for five years and did not know. And I think the thing I really want to impart is that it is an entirely unregulated industry federally and statewide. And people do not realize this. So right now, on Vanderpump Rules, Lala is like, "I'm choosing my sperm donor. And, one, the way she's framed it has made me really sad. But two, I want people to know that when she's like, "He's 6'2 and he loves music and he went to Harvard," it could entirely be lies.
Sarah [00:47:33] Yeah.
Chelsea Devantez [00:47:33] Entirely. Because no one's tracking, no one's regulating. It is a monetary business. These permits are trying to sell you this. So, in my case, and in many cases, we were told the donors were medical students. My mom was told their medical students, they have to be in the top of their class with straight A's, and they can only donate three times. And I have come to find out that not only were some of them not even students at all, some of them were homeless, some of them were in institutions. They took sperm from anywhere they could get it and up-sold it to the parents.
Sarah [00:48:10] And it's not like this everywhere. It is not like this everywhere in the world.
Chelsea Devantez [00:48:15] That's a good point. I think it is in Europe. I think it's pretty unregulated-- I can't speak for all countries but in America, nobody regulating it. And even let me say this, in Colorado, it's the only state to ban anonymous donation, it doesn't even go into practice till next year.
Sarah [00:48:35] Oh, my gosh.
Beth [00:48:38] As I was reading your book, the first person who I thought of, like, a couple chapters in, I was like, she's going to love this book, is a friend of mine who has a child conceived by a donor. And so, when I got to that part of the book, I thought, I wonder how she will feel reading this part of the book.
Chelsea Devantez [00:48:55] Yes. That's something that's been hard for me to think about, too.
Beth [00:48:57] I'm sure. And as I got through the chapter, I thought, I hope she reads this and feels like just so proud of herself for the integrity that she has brought to this process for her family and the way that she talks to her kids about it, and all of the things that she has done on her own in this system that is kind of the Wild West to do this in a way that feels right and good. But I can imagine if that was hard for you to write knowing how many people this is a part of their family's story?
Chelsea Devantez [00:49:28] Yeah. It's also-- and I'm open to it. I don't know if I'll agree, but I'm open to there is a slight failure in that chapter in that I feel such intense anger that the donor conceived children, the adults, the humans that were made, our narrative and our feelings are not only ignored, but when they have donor conceived councils, they do not have any of us on the panels. And there's protests outside. That I felt on my behalf and on the behalf of a lot of people I'm in community with who are donor conceived kids, that I needed to tell you how much it hurt. And I did get feedback from people being, like, I think this might hurt parents of donor conceived children. And I considered pulling my own feelings back. But then I thought like, no, they need to know that it is possible to make a child like me this angry, and if you make different decisions, they won't be. But you should probably see one of the worst-case scenarios.
[00:50:38] My beautiful, perfect, amazing mother who wanted to have me so badly, who loves me so much, has to sit here and hear me be like I'm in so much pain. And I hate that for her. And she hates it for me. But I still love my mom and I'm so happy to be here. But this is science. This is fertilization. Why would you not take into account how it will affect the child emotionally, physically, medically? I don't know half of what is inside me. And a lot of people are like, oh yeah, well, not everyone knows. That's totally fine. Not everyone knows I was created in a lab. They had the data. They actively threw it away. So, if you're going to create me in a lab, you know what? Let me know what's medically up with me. Because there's some chapters in this book where I go through some crazy surgeries and things like that can be helped. Knowing your dad's medical history.
[00:51:33] And I think it would be so easy to regulate the donor industry, and all we need, honestly, is just for the parents to care. If parents who want to conceive wanted regulation, we would have it. And I think the children and the parents would be better for it. I have had some parents of donor conceived children contact me via the podcast, and I have friends who have children who are donor conceived, and that has been like such a beautiful part of my life. Parents being, like, I'm not going to keep it a secret from them. And thank you for talking about this. Or here's how I do it with my kid. And then I have a friend who has a donor conceived son. And like every time I get to spend time with them, I leave and cry because I just feel so happy to be with him and see how it's happening with him and how she's doing it. And I think creating your family is a beautiful process, but I don't think anonymity creates an emotionally stable child.
Sarah [00:52:31] I'm glad you brought up your mom. I'm going to cry so hard Chelsea when you get to the end of your book. And you've written-- like we started this conversation, there's a lot of darkness. A lot of really hard, difficult things happen to you. And a lot of them happened during your childhood. And when you get to the end and you're like, my mom's always like, "Did anything good happen to you? And you say, "You, mom, you were the good thing." Oh, my God! Well, it's what every mother wants. They want to hear that. Like no matter what happened, you were there. You couldn't control it all, and mistakes were made. And I want the Rebecca update on your mom. I just want to hear how she read it in that chapter and how excited she is for it to go out into the world in the book to-- give it to me. All of it.
Chelsea Devantez [00:53:27] Well, such props to my mom. Props is even like a silly word to use, but... Well, first I want to say it's been extremely difficult. So, I don't want the positive things I'm going to say to make anyone think this was easy. I think for her, the book hurts a lot. And I think for me, the book has allowed me to become close to my mom again because I was always hiding how fucked up I was so that she would feel okay. And that means I couldn't be myself with my mom. And I think also, I didn't really realize I wasn't okay till pretty late in life. I was just always so high functioning that I didn't know that I wasn't okay. I think it's a really difficult quandary to think I know my mom would die for me. She would throw herself in front of a bus for me. And how could someone who would die for you let some of those things happen? It's hard to wrap your head around.
[00:54:42] And I think the answer is that, at least in my case, she really did her best. She gave it everything she had. And sometimes our best isn't enough. And that's okay. But she tried. My mom left home when she was 14. She was married at 14 to a 21-year-old. Whenever she looked at my life, she would always be like, it wasn't that bad, and you're fine. Like, what are you so upset about? Because her life was so much worse? But for me, I grew up being like, this isn't that bad. None of this is that bad. And then I was like, why am I having massive breakdowns and I can't function. It's like, well, it was that bad. I think to bring my reality to her reality and try and find a shared reality is very painful. But I think she has chosen to just show up and be there with me and hold my hand through this.
[00:55:40] And I'm choosing to show up and hold her hand through this. And that has been like the most beautiful thing ever. And she read the donor conceived chapter and she was like, "So this is really the thing that fucked you up the most because I thought it was other stuff. I didn't realize it was this." And I was like, yeah. Because honestly, other way worse stuff has happened and the donor thing probably fucked me up more than any of it. And for her, she's like, I love you. I wanted you to exist. How are you so upset? And for me, I'm like, how could you tell me to keep it a secret and not tell me.
Sarah [00:56:23] And, man, it's that Instagram reel-- Instagram is a complicated platform, and it doesn't always give, it often takes. But that reel where it's like, just remember it's your mother's first trip through life too. Every time it gets me.
Chelsea Devantez [00:56:34] Yeah.
Sarah [00:56:37] Man, she's doing the best she can. And we think that this is our mom's second trip. But especially as a mom, you're like, man, I'm just fucking it up and I'm trying so hard. And you're like a little gerbil on a wheel. And to have someone to just take-- again, we don't get a lot of moments in life where we can just go, wait, time out. Where am I? Where are you? Where are we crossing? Where are we far apart?
Chelsea Devantez [00:56:59] Yeah.
Sarah [00:56:59] Especially for a mother-daughter relationship, which I think carries a lot of the narrative baggage female friendship does. It's supposed to be perfect. We're BFFs, end of story. We're BFFs and then one of us dies. That's the complicated narrative we get. And so, I just think any contribution where you can say, no, it's more than that. It's harder sometimes, a lot harder than that.
Chelsea Devantez [00:57:20] Yeah. But I love her so much. And if you didn't know she was strong through all the stories. Knowing that she's going to be my guest at a show on a book tour, like, that's the strongest woman ever. She's so wonderful. She is just a scared 14-year-old girl who tried to make a better life for herself and kids, you know? And she did. And she really did. And the fact that she has a daughter who was like, "I'm going to start a podcast and tell all our family secrets," what a nightmare for her. And I just thank her every day for continuing to love me.
Beth [00:58:00] It's really helpful to me as a mom to read, because yesterday, in fact, my 13-year-old, we got in the car, we were headed to a lesson and she wasn't very talkative. So, I said, "Hey, do you want to turn some music on?" And she turned her whole body to me from the passenger seat, and she goes, "Okay. Do you feel up for unpacking like two years of drama?" And I said, "Absolutely."
Chelsea Devantez [00:58:23] Okay. I love her.
Beth [00:58:24] I love her too, she's amazing. And so, she tells me all of this stuff that she's not told me before. And I really think that-- and it was all fine. Compared to the stories in your book, Chelsea, she's living the dream. We are all living the dream. But she told me things that she-- like these were the kinds of stories I thought I was always getting from her. And I think that before reading your book, I might have spiraled a little bit. Like, what have I done wrong that she's been kind of holding on to this particular story and not sharing it with me? And I think your book is such a good reminder because I read it knowing how crazy you are about your mom.
[00:59:02] I remember the billboard from your wedding with your mother's face on it, so I read it knowing how much love is there. And I think it was just such a good reminder that she has an interior life just like I do. And what we choose to share with each other is made up of more than just what our relationship feels like. There are so many things swirling around those decisions. So in a completely different context I just I found it really helpful to see the honesty that you were able to bring to the page, coupled with that really enduring and fierce love that you feel for your mom.
Chelsea Devantez [00:59:37] Thank you. And it's definitely been like I think it's a choice from both of us. You know what I mean? I'm like, this fucked up shit happened, and I love you so much, and I'm going to hold your hand. And I will fight through it, if you will. And she's like, I love you so much and all this fucked up shit you're having. I'm going to hold your hand. And even though you're telling everybody about it, I'm going to fight through it if you will. I think we're both making that choice every day, which has been really beautiful. Yeah.
Sarah [01:00:05] So let's talk about the real love of your life, Chelsea, which is celebrations. Because we're going on a book tour. I said we because that's how I feel about your celebrations.
Chelsea Devantez [01:00:15] Because you're going to be there [crosstalk].
Sarah [01:00:17] I was not at your wedding. But I think there's a scenario where I'm, like, older and maybe, like, mind's getting a little aging where I report to people that I was there. That it's like a story of my life that I share with people at the end.
Chelsea Devantez [01:00:36] That’s right. You were.
Sarah [01:00:37] Chelsea's wedding. Think that could happen. Do you understand what I mean? Like, that's the vibe that you have. It's the celebration, it's for everyone. It is for the people there. It is for the people that have to follow along on social media. And so, I'm very excited about this energy around the book tour.
Chelsea Devantez [01:00:55] Thank you. I've been calling it my book wedding.
Sarah [01:00:57] And I'm assuming there will be lots of Ben and Jennifer's glasses at every event.
Chelsea Devantez [01:01:01] Yes.
Sarah [01:01:02] Okay, good.
Chelsea Devantez [01:01:03] Those are expensive classes to rent, so those won't be there. But, yeah, I've been calling it my book wedding. I am absolutely treating it like a wedding to my book. And I think one of the most beautiful things about-- and I think a lot of people can access this without going through shit. But, for me, going through so much horrible shit kind of breaks your brain. And what is normal doesn't matter anymore because you know it's not. Once you've faced the fucking devil, what does it matter if I wear a crown to brunch?
Sarah [01:01:35] Exactly.
Chelsea Devantez [01:01:35] It doesn't fucking matter. And I should because I just had to like-- the hair's evil.
Sarah [01:01:39] Because you're hair.
Chelsea Devantez [01:01:41] And I hate the hair. And I think that has been so nice in that like-- yeah, I love to go hard and I want everyone with me.
Sarah [01:01:49] Because I didn't use the word party. I used the word celebrations.
Chelsea Devantez [01:01:51] No, I think you know I hate parties.
Sarah [01:01:52] Yeah. That distinction I think it's important. It's true in my life. It's true in yours.
Chelsea Devantez [01:01:56] Yes. We're going to wear crowns. We're going to dress up. We going to have the time of our life.
Sarah [01:01:59] We don't want to go make small talk. This is not the party we're talking about.
Chelsea Devantez [01:02:03] No, we're going to get tattoos. We're going to jump into the ocean in wedding dresses. We're going to go home and be cozy and watch a movie. That's what I hope happens on the book tour.
Sarah [01:02:10] Yeah, there we go. And you're going to how many cities?
Chelsea Devantez [01:02:13] The tour starts in New York City, June 4th with Jon Stewart. If you've ever wanted to see Jon Stewart-- if you have, come see me.
Sarah [01:02:19] Yeah, there you go.
Chelsea Devantez [01:02:19] If you've heard of him. And so, that is really wonderful. And then we are going to Washington, DC, Nashville, where Sarah will be, and Beth will be in our hearts. Then we're going to Chicago, Santa Fe and Albuquerque, because New Mexico is where my family landed. We've been there for 20 years, so I consider it home. Had to go to New Mexico, then we're going to Seattle, Portland and Los Angeles. Seattle is already sold out. The show is. But in every city, I'm also doing a writing workshop because the whole book is written for me, wrote it for me, and me wants a workshop. Me loves to learn. So, I was like, oh, I got a tour workshop because that's what I would have wanted. And so, yeah, we're doing these events in all these cities. Come out and grab a ticket, they're special guests in every city. I'm going to be dressed the fuck out. And the dress code is glamorous trash for everyone.
Sarah [01:03:11] I told you; I sent you my eBay watchlist.
Chelsea Devantez [01:03:13] I know. You got some good stuff ready. So, yeah, I'm really excited to get out and meet people and sign books. And so, you can go to my website, Chelseadevantez.com. You can go to my Instagram at @Chelseadevantez. You can Google Glamorous Trash Bookstore, it'll come up and you can get tickets.
Beth [01:03:29] I'm so bummed that the timing did not work for me to be there with you all.
Chelsea Devantez [01:03:32] Me too. You were supposed to be. And you will be in my-- maybe I'll get a tattoo of you in my left cleavage.
Beth [01:03:39] That would be fabulous. When I read the phrase normcore in your book, I was like, oh, that is my whole esthetic.
Chelsea Devantez [01:03:45] What did I say normcore about?
Beth [01:03:48] I can't even remember, but it jumped off the page at me. Normcore. I was like, that's me. Chelsea, we have talked to you for an hour and have not asked you what your favorite part of the book is. What do you like best in this book?
Chelsea Devantez [01:04:02] Impossible to answer because also currently I'm, like, I should rewrite this and it's already published. But I will tell you. You two coming on my podcast, we did Huma Abedin's memoir. And Beth, you said, "I have a wish for her in her life." And you gave this beautiful wish for her. And when I was writing the chapter about being donor conceived, which I do believe is the longest, some editor was like, "You've got to cut a lot of this out. You're just like crying and screaming." I was trying to think of how to end it. And because I'm not at the end of the journey, I literally have just started processing it, which is not a great place to be. You're supposed to be at the end.
[01:04:45] I'm in the middle. I'm in the beginning. And I thought, oh my gosh, I have a wish for myself. I have Beth's wish for myself. And I texted you, I said, I'm going to take a piece of this podcast and put it in the book, but that actually it really might be my favorite part of the book, because I still am in a lot of pain about that. But the wish for myself is that I'm not one day, and that this is all just like, can you believe you went through that? And can you believe that was so hard? Because it doesn't feel hard at all now, and I only feel like love and joy around it now. And that's my wish for myself that it's not so painful soon. And that's maybe my favorite part of the book, because every time I read it, I then go. "Yay! Maybe that'll happen."
Sarah [01:05:25] There was a writer on the internet a long time ago that advised us, like, picture yourself sitting on the bed next to you in 20 years. What would she tell you? And it is a really hopeful like tactic strategy, emotional survival approach to just say hey-- and I mean, I can't wait for Chelsea in 20 years and what she's going to think about this memoir. And I can't wait for all the ways that it's going to impact readers on their journey and how it's going to change where they end up in 20 years. I mean, my favorite part of the book is when you say, "I've told you a lot of stuff about myself, so I don't mind saying I have the best head of hair," which is true. That's true. That's my favorite line in the book because I was like, it's true.
Chelsea Devantez [01:06:04] Thank you.
Sarah [01:06:05] It's accurate.
Chelsea Devantez [01:06:06] And the story about how they made me prove my hair wasn't a wig.
Sarah [01:06:09] Oh, my God.
Chelsea Devantez [01:06:09] I still get one DM a week saying, is your hair a wig?
Sarah [01:06:12] It's not you guys. It's as beautiful as her cleavage. I've seen it in person.
Chelsea Devantez [01:06:18] Thank you. And thank you both so much. You're such lights in my life. Which is to say, your lights in everyone's life. You're such guiding lights and such incredible humans. And thank you so much for letting me talk about the book and for guiding me through so much hell in this world every week.
Sarah [01:06:35] We love you.
Beth [01:06:36] You're the best.
Sarah [01:06:36] We love you so much. We can't wait for everybody to read this book. Go get it, you guys. Go buy it. It's called I Shouldn't Be Telling You This.
Chelsea Devantez [01:06:42] And it's available everywhere.
[01:06:43] Music Interlude.
Beth [01:06:53] Thank you so much to Chelsea for being our friend. I could break out into the Golden Girls theme song here because of how much I already love her. But thank you to Chelsea and to all of you for being with us. You will love I Shouldn't Be Telling You This. I hope you'll snag a copy today. Please don't forget that listener survey. We'll see you back here on Friday to process all of this week's news. Until then, have the best week available to you.
[01:07:15] Music Interlude.
Sarah: Pantsuit Politics is produced by Studio D Podcast Production.
Beth: Alise Napp is our managing director. Maggie Penton is our director of Community Engagement.
Sarah: Xander Singh is the composer of our theme music with inspiration from original work by Dante Lima.
Beth: Our show is listener-supported. Special thanks to our executive producers.
Executive Producers: Martha Bronitsky. Ali Edwards. Janice Elliott. Sarah Greenup. Julie Haller. Tiffany Hasler. Emily Holladay. Katie Johnson. Katina Zuganelis Kasling. Barry Kaufman. Katherine Vollmer. Laurie LaDow. Lily McClure. Linda Daniel. The Pentons. Tracey Puthoff. Sarah Ralph. Jeremy Sequoia. Katie Stigers. Karin True. Onica Ulveling. Nick and Alysa Villeli. Amy Whited. Emily Helen Olson. Lee Chaix McDonough. Morgan McHugh. Jen Ross. Sabrina Drago. Becca Dorval. Christina Quartararo. Shannon Frawley. Jessica Whitehead. Samantha Chalmers. Crystal Kemp. Megan Hart. The Lebo Family. The Adair Family.
Sarah: Jeff Davis. Melinda Johnston. Michelle Wood. Nichole Berklas. Paula Bremer and Tim Miller.