Super Tuesday and the Super Stakes of 2024

TOPICS DISCUSSED

  • The Humanitarian Crisis in Gaza

  • Donald Trump and the Supreme Court

  • Mitch McConnel Retires from Senate Leadership

  • The House Passes a (very) Short-Term Government Funding Agreement

  • Super Tuesday, Joe Biden’s Polling, and the General Election

  • Outside Politics: Our “Don’t” List

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TRANSCRIPT

Sarah [00:00:07] This is Sarah Stewart Holland.  

Beth [00:00:09] This is Beth Silvers.  

Sarah [00:00:10] You're listening to Pantsuit Politics.  

Beth [00:00:12] Where we take a different approach to the news.  

Sarah [00:00:29] Hello everyone. We're so glad you're here with us today. There has been a lot of news over the weekend, so we're going to be catching up on all that with you today. We're going to talk about the incredible human suffering in Gaza. We're going to talk about the Supreme Court decision about Trump's eligibility to be on the ballot, the new New York Times poll, Super Tuesday voting, Mitch McConnell's retirement as minority leader. We just got a lot. We got a lot. And then Outside of Politics, we're going to talk about what we don't do. Our list of don'ts. But, Beth, before we get to that, it's your birthday. It's your birthday and you've been sick. And I know that people want to know how you're feeling.  

Beth [00:01:07] I feel much better. I don't sound much better yet, but I am, I assure you, in much, much better shape than at any point in last week's time that we spent together. So I'm on the mend; 43 is kicking off with the right trajectory.  

Sarah [00:01:23] I like it.  

Beth [00:01:24] Before we start, one quick note. Sarah mentioned this on Friday, we want to mention it again because it is a very big deal to us.  

Sarah [00:01:33] It's affecting everything else.  

Beth [00:01:35] I don't know why, but Apple Podcasts has made a software update that shifted some things in how episodes download to your phone. And that shift because of the way that podcasts make money and because of the way that downloads are measured in a very particular window of time for advertising revenue. That little software tweak from Apple has been like an earthquake across the podcasting industry and in our business. In our particular business. It was a shocking January and February. Not in a good way. So if you listen to the show and you like it, we appreciate that so much and have one quick ask from you that costs you nothing. We would so appreciate, if you listen on Apple Podcasts, to go into the app, choose our show, look at the three dots on the top right that take you to settings for our show, and set the downloads option to automatically download the five latest episodes. That makes sure that you get them, but it is also a very, very big deal for how the success of our podcast is measured for advertisers, which is how we pay for what we do here. And we are especially thankful right now for listener support of this show, because this shift would have been unmanageable in our small business without people who subscribe to our premium channels. So thank you for considering making the settings change. And thank you so much to those of you who put your dollars into our work. We could not do it without you.  

Sarah [00:03:16] Yeah, that's exactly what I was going to say. If you can hear the stress in our voices and you would like to do more than change the settings, we would love to have you in our premium communities. They're incredible. We produce some really great content. We have incredible conversations. But also, if you just want to support what we do here on the main feed, you can just set and forget it and not worry about all that content if that stresses you out. We would love to have your support any way you wish to give it. It really, really helps build stability into our business model, not just for us, but of course for our two full time employees, Alise and Maggie. So thank you so much for that. Up next, we're going to talk about the situation in Gaza.  

[00:04:03] The situation in Gaza continues to degrade. There was an attack from the Israeli force on an aid convoy that resulted in the death of 100 Palestinians. I was sitting here, Beth, trying to think of a word-- not crisis. That's not big enough. Escalate- not big enough. I can't think of language to fully convey the depths of human suffering. I don't know how you feel about this. Watching this awful moment where the Israeli forces were firing on Palestinians coming for food aid, and then, in anger, Hamas steps away from the ceasefire negotiations. But Biden is escalating the call for these negotiations. It's just like everything you think would bring people to the table because the stakes are higher, it's the opposite. Although when I say that, I think, well, no, that makes sense, the stakes get higher, the suffering increases. And intellectually you can see why that should bring people to the negotiating table. But it just feels like it's making it worse and it's pushing people away and not getting us any closer to a cease fire.  

Beth [00:05:20] It is to me a reminder that there is no one at the negotiating table who truly represents civilians in Gaza. They do not have a representative whose only responsibility is to negotiate on their behalf. And I don't know how you get to a durable peace when the civilians of Gaza, who are most directly impacted by every single decision being made right now in such a desperate way, do not have true representation there. That's the real tragedy of the entire situation and why we are here.  

Sarah [00:06:02] Yeah, I think that's so true. And I think it's not that the other players aren't aware. I think that the Biden administration is clearly escalating its rhetoric around this conflict and towards the Israeli government. Vice President Kamala Harris came out and in very clear language called for a cease fire. She's supposed to be meeting with Benny Gantz, who's this sort of center right member of the government. So is Jake Sullivan. And there's lots of reporting that President Biden is increasingly frustrated. He wants a cease fire by Ramadan, which starts on the 10th. Then I think the decision to drop aid from the U.S. government has to feel like a signal to the Israeli government. On one hand, I can say, how can they not see? And then I know who's in charge, so I know why they don't see that they are losing the support of the U.S. and probably many other nations, because the suffering is just intolerable. It's intolerable. This isn't even about the violence. This is about children starving. This is about a lack of sanitation. It's just a complete degradation of society. There was reporting when people were attacking the aid convoys that they were worried this would turn into Mogadishu, which was like a similar situation we found ourselves in where it was just a breakdown of all human society. And thousands and thousands and thousands of people get caught in the crossfire or something like that.  

Beth [00:07:41] I think the decision to meet with is a very significant signal to Israel, even more so than dropping aid from the air in Gaza. In terms of the US government shifting away from Netanyahu to say, let's find some clarity and some sanity in terms of their response. But the United States, just like the Arab nations involved in these talks, has clear responsibility towards its citizens first and foremost. And that's what frustrates me so much about Hamas, that it does not have responsibility to Gazans first and foremost. If it did, like Vice President Harris articulated so plainly, they would take the deal that's on the table, release these hostages, do not continue to have your people eating animal food and leaves and fighting one another to get to the limited aid that's getting into the region. .I am heartbroken by the path that Netanyahu has charted here. I also, though, cannot lose sight of the fact that it is Hamas that started this and that continues it, and there is no plan beyond this. Netanyahu's plans are fantastical for what happens the day after. But Hamas doesn't care what happens the day after, either. And I am just desperate for all of the parties to get together here and come up with a governing structure that emerges where someone's sole responsibility is the care of the people in Gaza.  

Sarah [00:09:29] Desperate. That's the word. That's the word we're looking for, I think. It's just desperate. I feel desperation from every party, including Netanyahu. He's desperate to keep this going because he doesn't have a plan for his leadership after this. He knows he is incredibly vulnerable. And so this idea that we must win the war-- and what then what? Occupy Gaza? I think that he is desperate. I think the Biden administration is increasingly desperate. And not just because I think the people who have been protesting and making their voices heard are succeeding. If you have been to a protest, know that it is working. It is working. I think that it is having impact, which is all that you can hope for in a situation as an American citizen when we are looking at a crisis across the globe like this one. But I know that there are people out there who have been dedicating enormous amounts of time to try to elevate this and to make it hurt. I don't even know any other way to say it. Now, I don't think that Biden is doing some cynical political calculation. Do I think that is absent? No, I don't. That would be foolish. But I don't think that Joe Biden looks at the suffering of the people of Gaza and says, "Well, who cares it might cost me votes?" I think this administration sees this, feels some responsibility and wants to do something to gain relief, some minimal amount of relief for the Palestinian people. And I think Hamas is desperate, too. They're just dangerous when they're desperate. It's not like the desperation invokes some sort of reasonable calculation. Their calculations are infected by terroristic thinking and violence. And so I think I you're right, though. I think the word desperate is the best way to categorize everything happening here, including the situation of the civilians on the ground. I did want to say before we moved on that there are two other places in the world that weigh heavy on my heart, and I think that they get lost a lot in the coverage of Gaza and Ukraine, and that is Haiti. Which is in a truly terrible situation. The news over the weekend is that armed gangs facilitated the escape of 3700 inmates from two prisons in Port au Prince. Because the gangs are in charge, there is no government in Haiti right now. It is basically a failed state and there is enormous human suffering as a result. And then also in Sudan, where 14,000 people have been killed, millions displaced, and the United Nations just released a report detailing truly horrific human rights violations and abuses that are happening in that part of the world. So I just wanted to give voice to those two places. I know many members of our audience have connections across the globe, and probably know and love people who are caught up in these conflicts as well.  

[00:12:53] Beth, it's a big week. Not just because it's your birthday week, that is one of the reasons, and I'm sure all of our congressional members are aware and celebrating this very important date on the calendar. But also because we have Super Tuesday today. It's super. Maybe you've heard there will be an enormous amount of delegates being distributed. We have the State of the Union on Thursday and then the government funding vote on Friday. It's a big week. It's a big week.  

Beth [00:13:24] It feels a little bit rude since it is my birthday week to have all of this happening.  

Sarah [00:13:30] Right? They didn't check.  

Beth [00:13:31] No one consulted me, but that's okay. We will soldier on. We were going to have a trial this week too. This was the week that the January 6th criminal trial against the former president was supposed to begin. But as many of you probably have reacted to by now, the Supreme Court has gotten involved and is going to hear the appeal from the DC circuit over Trump's argument that he is absolutely immune from prosecution because he was a president at one time, and those arguments have been scheduled in April. So it'll be a bit before we hear back from that criminal prosecution.  

Sarah [00:14:10] Well, let's walk through some of the things that have already happened leading us to this big week. And let's go ahead and start with the Supreme Court. I thought David Leonhardt had the best analysis of this, which is in many ways Trump's delay strategy seems to be working. But it’s hard to miss the fact, when speaking of the Supreme Court, that they got to this ruling on the Colorado ballot really quickly, really turned it around. And yet on this matter of his January 6th insurrection, man, we just needed some more time. David Leonhardt said, "When urgent action could help a Republican presidential candidate in 2000, the court, which was also dominated by Republican appointees at the time, acted urgently. When delay seems likely to help a Republican presidential candidate in 2024, the court has chosen delay. The combination does not make the court look independent from Partisan politics."  

Beth [00:15:07] Court will move lickety-split when it wants to.  

Sarah [00:15:09] Exactly.  

Beth [00:15:10] And it can take the speed of a glacier on what it wants to. And everything about the Supreme Court is just whatever it wants. And I think getting comfortable with that is going to be important this year. It's just whatever the court wants.  

Sarah [00:15:26] And I just want to say what infuriates me about that is, in statements, both in opinions and at public speaking, they seem to want to firm up their standing with the American public. So perhaps following your every whim and telling people, sorry, we get to do what we want to do when we do want to do it, not the best strategy. I don't think it's a great strategy, Beth.  

Beth [00:15:58] I think if the court were to consult with any publicist, they would get some advice that differs from the path that they are following today. You know what I'm going to say from now until November about the Supreme Court, if you are angry at the Supreme Court for any reason-- and what a buffet of choices we have for reasons to be mad at the Supreme Court. If you are mad at the Supreme Court for any reason, the single most important power you have to affect the court is how you vote for senators. And as a person who has spent more of my life as a Republican than a Democrat, as a person who is currently a registered Republican, so that I can vote in that party's primaries, I will tell you, voting for Democrats is the single most important check on a Republican supermajority Supreme Court that is available to us. And it is not a perfect check, and it is not a guaranteed check. But this court has been ideologically captured for a generation. And I don't think we can walk into the next election with any confidence that a Republican Senate is going to in any way respect the advice and consent process around the court if a Democrat is the president again.  

Sarah [00:17:20] Yeah.  

Beth [00:17:21] And so the most important thing that you can do if you are mad at this court is vote for Democrats in the Senate. And I wish there were a better answer than that, but that is the power that voters have relative to the court.  

Sarah [00:17:33] Well, this seems like an excellent transition into the United States Senate, where Mitch McConnell announced that he is retiring as minority leader, considering his legacy is also delay when I feel like it, accelerate it when I feel like it, in order to capture that Supreme Court. I felt like at first people thought he was retiring retiring. I got a lot of text messages and I was like, he's just retiring from leadership, not from the United States Senate.  

Beth [00:18:01] I got a lot of messages about this too, like in the spirit of hooray, and I did not feel like a ding dong the witch is dead moment around this.  

Sarah [00:18:11] I didn't either.  

Beth [00:18:13] First of all, I think that the timing is odd and that we will know more about that someday. I think it'll be a while, but someday I think we will come to better understand this timing. I do not think it was a whim. Mitch McConnell is calculated. Perhaps that's the top word I could use about Mitch McConnell. So I don't think this was random, even though it felt random in terms of timing. I also don't think that we are likely to see a replacement for Mitch McConnell, who will more effectively work in a bipartisan way for the good of the American public.  

Sarah [00:18:51] No.  

Beth [00:18:52] And so I felt basically nothing about this. It's a sea change, but we can't understand what that change will represent for a while. And I just have a lot of questions about the process right now.  

Sarah [00:19:09] Yeah, there's been a lot of reporting that there are some very intense talks between Mitch McConnell's aides and the Trump campaign about his endorsement. I don't know if this was to relieve some of that pressure and be like, "Hey, I'll announce my retirement, but I'm not ready to announce an endorsement," to get them off his back. I did enjoy the part of his speech where he said, "You can say a lot of things about me, but not understanding politics is not one of them."  

Beth [00:19:29] Yeah.  

Sarah [00:19:30] And so as weird as it is, (I can't believe I'm about to say this) I feel like the only thing I felt was a little discouragement, just because I know that he's been such a stalwart for the support of Ukraine and a semi traditional approach to conservatism, although his strategies have not been conservative, in fact, they have been radical. And so, I don't know, I think you're right. I think we'll learn more. We do know that the successor is probably going to be named John, because we do have three Johns fighting for the position, which tells you something.  

Beth [00:20:08] It tells you a lot about the make up of the Senate. I will say this, if I were placing a bet-- I'm sure there's a place I can do that. If I were placing a bet on who will succeed Mitch McConnell, I would bet against a John.  

Sarah [00:20:21] Really? You don't think it's going to be Barrasso? That's my money. Well, Thune or Barrasso, not Cornyn. He ain't getting it.  

Beth [00:20:28] I just think this Republican conference is too disorganized to have a result. That is what any one would expect. I think something will happen with all three Johns in the process somewhere along the way that will take them out of the running.  

Sarah [00:20:48] Well, I will say this. Okay, so I am a little discouraged because I felt like he was good on Ukraine, which seems to be the only thing they might actually get done. But in the same way, I feel this in Kentucky politics. I feel this in the politics of the Senate, which we were just talking about with the United States Supreme Court. They will not find someone who can organize, recruit, fundraise and just provide that long term vision that Mitch McConnell did, either in Kentucky state politics or in the United States Senate. And to that I say hooray! Hooray! I just don't think there's anybody out there that can do what he did. And that's great because I did not like how successful he was. I found him deeply, deeply damaging to both the United States and our government as a whole. So hooray to that part.  

Beth [00:21:44] I think it's two things about that, too. I think he was unique in that his ambition was group oriented.  

Sarah [00:21:53] Yeah.  

Beth [00:21:54] I also think that it's possible that what he did cannot be done in the Trump Republican Party.  

Sarah [00:22:02] Right. Well, Trump's not going to do it, I can tell you that much.  

Beth [00:22:05] So it is, I think, the end of an era for sure. And I don't think Mitch McConnell's career is all bad. I think it's a net negative, but I don't think it's all bad. Certainly there are things that I think he was good on, and places where I will wish for his influence to tip things in a better direction than they'll go without him. And I will say, I've mostly wanted to see what people in Kentucky were saying after this announcement came out, and across the political spectrum, you could not have asked for Kentucky officials to be more of a class act. The statement that our Democratic governor, Andy Beshear, put out was as classy as they get about Mitch McConnell's legacy of service, and that was true across the board of elected officials that I saw. And that made me feel really proud of the climate in our state and how I think we are committed right now, at least in Kentucky, to trying to turn the nastiness down and be more productive in how we move forward.  

Sarah [00:23:08] So, Beth, what I'm hearing from you regarding this skill-set is that you do not believe that Mike Johnson is the next generation of Republican leadership, and that you were perhaps not impressed by how he navigated this most recent, very short-term funded agreement.  

Beth [00:23:35] I do like to see congressional action that lasts for more than a week at a time.  

Sarah [00:23:43] So you want funding that's longer than a menstrual cycle?  

Beth [00:23:46] I do.  

Sarah [00:23:47] Okay.  

Beth [00:23:48] Can I just say this? I want to just get this off my chest because I feel like it gets lost. This fiscal year for which we do not yet have a budget started in October of 2023.  

Sarah [00:24:01] It's almost over. He is so in over his head. What a dodo. And when he comes around, he's like, we're going to get it done. I'm like, I'm supposed to believe you? Are you supposed to invoke trust in me? Because you do not. And the idea that we're going to be back here again on Friday, I don't even know what the point was, just to avoid even a short-term shutdown, I guess. And I guess he's just fully abandoned that far right wing. I guess he's just gonna be like, guys, we're just going to ghost. I mean, that's the only conclusion even a stupid person could make. The only thing they've passed this year, in any form, legislative or budgeting- wise is with Democratic support.  

Beth [00:24:46] And to be clear, I'm thrilled that the government didn't shut down. I will take it. I will take because the government should not shut down. But if you especially are out there selling to the American people through a campaign message that our government is careening from crisis to crisis, that things are out of control, and you can't provide the stability that the lights will remain on in the offices in charge of dealing with all of those matters, then you should look to yourself as part of the problem instead of part of the solution.  

Sarah [00:25:21] Well, they're not a reflective group, you know what I'm saying. That's not their strong point.  

Beth [00:25:25] Introspection is not everyone's strength.  

Sarah [00:25:28] No. Okay, so Sunday afternoon we did get a six bill $435 billion package. It's a 1050 page bill. If you want to go read it. It's supposed to be voted on Wednesday in the House and then the Senate to follow. It's basically a spending freeze with some cuts. Probably not that far away from what Kevin McCarthy negotiated with Joe Biden last year. And so we'll see what Mike Johnson can do with his whopping two vote majority.  

Beth [00:26:00] And, look, that's great. I hope they're real happy with what they negotiated, because this is the time when they should be making those plans for the next budget cycle.  

Sarah [00:26:10] I don't think that's going to happen. They're not serious people. I just cannot say that enough. They're not serious people.  

Beth [00:26:17] And if you don't like this, the power you have is to vote in November for serious people to manage this process. I know that we've let the House go. We've all kind of given up on the house. I think we need to revisit that conclusion and decide that the house matters, and we should vote for serious people in the House.  

Sarah [00:26:37] All right. Well, let's move on to voting because some of that has taken place. We had several primaries over the weekend. Donald Trump won three state primaries. I think he doubled his delegate count. Nikki Haley notched her first win. She got 63% of the GOP primary vote in Washington, D.C. it was about 2000 ballots. But it does make Nikki Haley the first woman to win a Republican primary in U.S. history.  

Beth [00:27:01] And I think that deserves to be celebrated.  

Sarah [00:27:04] I do too. But it does feel like everybody has sort of locked in that it's just going to be Donald Trump and Joe Biden. I know we've said that before, but it feels more real the closer we get-- even to the Biden campaign putting him out there, there was a big profile in The New York Times Magazine with Evan Osnos, where he was on The Late Show. He's there definitely pushing him out there, more like, remember him, he's still with it. We promise. You're going to have to vote for him because our other choice is Donald Trump. I think it's true that after Super Tuesday, barring some very unexpected results in Republican primaries, I think the general election will begin this week. Well, you can tell because you know what the story was on the weekend? Polling. My favorite and your favorite. There was a big Time/Siena poll, Donald Trump leads Biden nationally by a five point margin, 48 to 43%. Forty Seven of voters strongly disapprove of Biden's leadership. Seventy three percent think Biden is too old to be an effective president. Can I take this moment to say the stakes are very high for the State of the Union, and people collectively freaked out because he was also ahead in almost all the swing states.  

Beth [00:28:17] I do hate polling. I don't think that this is an inaccurate picture of where things stand today, which also makes me feel kind of sick. But the line from this that I did have to laugh about is that someone noted that every time they ask the question, is he too old? The percentage of people who think so increases. Wouldn't it be like, obviously, because he's older every time you ask? That is only going to move in one direction. Thank you for calling it out for us.  

Sarah [00:28:51] I do want them to stop polling on that. Just stop. Please stop. It's not helpful. What are we learning? Honestly, what are we learning? What we know is that he is not going to drop out. All these interviews, he is described as at peace with his decision to run again. So he's not going to drop out. We don't get a contested convention unless he does. I don't understand what the point is of saying over and over again he sure is old and everybody hates it.  

Beth [00:29:18] At the same time, I understand why the question continues to be out there because I think, like it or not, it will be a driving factor of this election. And it is an extraordinary thing that either of these men will be the oldest person to commence a term as president. It's extraordinary, and it is something that we all have feelings about. So it's kind of like the polling question on it is the only way to get at those feelings. And maybe what we need are some other ways to get at those feelings.  

Sarah [00:29:50] Well, I thought Matt Iglesias had a really good piece about how he's going to cover the election. And he just talked about, like, we need to be focusing on the stakes of this election. And I don't just mean Donald Trump is a bad person and scary and fomented an insurrection. All true. But clearly that is not persuading people because that has been the reality since 2016. So we need to be able to articulate to people realities on the ground that they care about, because I think people use their lived reality as an out to support him. Well, I really want the economy better. So they'll just say it's sort of what you know-- but her emails, only it's but inflation, but grocery store prices, but immigration. And so we need to find a way to articulate that. At our Sunday dinner last night, there have been a couple of things I wanted to tell my dad. And one of them was, did you know that America exports more energy than it imports? Did you know that we're energy independent? That's not true. I'm like, it is true. And today I'm going to send in the Cato Institute report that talks about how Donald Trump decreased legal immigration. It's another thing he said. Everybody supports legal immigration. We just don't support illegal immigration. And that's not true. Donald Trump does not support legal immigration. Joe Biden has led through a historic production of energy, both green and otherwise. Donald Trump decreased legal immigration, and he would continue to do that. Matt talks about he's going to come in and put all these tax on imports and he's going to deport a huge share of the workforce. And if you think your food prices are high now, get ready for that.  

Beth [00:31:32] And you can't hire anybody right now. If you think there's no one to work-- which is something I hear constantly, there's no one to work. If you think there's no one to work, wait, because there will be no one to work if Donald Trump has a second term in office.  

Sarah [00:31:47] And he's going to mess with the Fed, he's going to have regressive tax cuts. To articulate like, okay, well, if you think you like his policies but not him, let's talk about how these policies are going to harm you. I wish there was more of that. I think we all need to pick a statistic every week and tell everyone we know, be like, remember this? He reduced legal immigration. So while we're all having this conversation, before we get to debates about how to improve it-- which again, Republicans got everything on their wish list and he killed it because he wants all of us to fight about immigration for the next six months. So I just think articulating these things and focusing on the stakes and the lived reality, instead of being dumbfounded that people still support him-- which I am. I am completely and totally dumbfounded by this polling. I think some of it is he just hasn't been out there and people forgot what he's like. And I think that hopefully there will be more of that, that he's mean and hateful and angry. There's reporting that like they keep trying to keep him on script. Good luck. He's going to get up there and talk about how 2020 was stolen and everybody's out to get him. And I still believe that will be true. And I think it's also true that the more Biden gets out there, this will help him and people can see him. But there's just only so much we can do about he's scary, don't vote for him. 

Beth [00:33:07] Because he doesn't really scare people. The people who are on the fence about this are not scared by him. But I'll tell you what, you should be scared by the people who will be in charge of things if he is elected president again. Because the thing is, he won't stay on message because he doesn't care about anything except himself. And so if he is elected again, he will care about himself and he will do the things that are about him. He will do the vengeance things. Believe him. The things that he talks about are the things that he cares about. But also believe that the people who he will surround himself with, to the tune of thousands of people spread throughout the federal government, want deeply unpopular policies across this country, and are willing to do just about anything to enact those policies. And those policies are much more robustly developed than the first time he was in office, and much more captured by people who truly want America to operate as a theocracy. And I think the more you understand about how he will wield this power and what he will delegate to people-- you talk about unelected bureaucrats. That will be the theme of a second Trump presidency. He will delegate everything else that is part of being the president to people who believe things that are quite different than what he represents in his campaign speeches. Find him entertaining. Love him. Care about him. Think he has been persecuted and shouldn't go to jail. But be clear that you aren't just voting for him.  

Sarah [00:34:42] There was a great piece in the New York Times from a contributor who read the entirety of the project 2025 plan. If you don't know what that is, the Heritage Foundation has put together this document saying, like, this is what we're going to do. This is the plan if Donald Trump wins the presidency.  

Beth [00:35:00] Carlos Lozada doing the work of the Lord, reading all these detailed plans.  

Sarah [00:35:04] That's right. The Heritage Foundation's plans-- which many of y'all reached out to us and been like, what about this? And it was just like, they don't want to blow up the swamp. They want to run it like kings. And that's what I tell people. I'm like, this isn't about making the federal government more responsive to you. It's making the federal government responsive to very, very wealthy conservative ideologues. And that's why I think abortion is such a winning issue, because you can say, look, you thought he was harmless and he up-ended this thing that most Americans support in a way that has affected hundreds of thousands of people's lives. This is the reality. Don't tell me you liked his policies. Because I don't think you really like what's happening right now with abortion, where women can't get care for spontaneous miscarriages or they get arrested. So that's the reality. Take that and apply it everywhere. At my dinner table last night, I'm like, "You understand that he wants to get rid of birthright citizenship?" First of all, birthright citizenship is such a piece of who we are as Americans. I would like to see polling on how many Americans understand that that is not the reality around the world. That you can be a Korean born in Japan to Korean immigrant parents, and you are not Japanese. And people don't get that. People do not understand how special that is and they want to get rid of it. This fundamental piece of who we are as Americans, they want to eliminate it. That is a radical position.  

Beth [00:36:42] They want the Department of Health and Human Services, where Medicare administration lives, to become the Department of Life. Understand where the priorities are here. I get that there are things about Donald Trump that just for a lot of different reasons, hook people. But because his focus is so narrow, you miss the big picture with what a second term would look like. And we'll continue to talk about that. I know this is not the only time we'll hit on project 2025, but it is some scary, weird, messed up stuff. And so, yeah, Joe Biden's old. Fine. But it's not scary, weird, messed up stuff coming from him and his administration.  

Sarah [00:37:34] Well, and I kind of just want to be like, okay, he is old. What if he dies? Let's just play this out. Let's just play the game. Let's just play out this scenario. What if he dies? We have cabinet secretaries that haven't turned over once. Do you remember the Trump administration? We had, like, half of them were acting. And it was like the fourth one. We have a competent, intelligent, involved vice president ready and willing to take over. It's not like it would be the end of the world. It's not like we've never had a president die in office. Freaking Woodrow Wilson's wife was basically the president for months. Like, come on, it's not like we don't have processes in place. As if this was some sort of level 10 disaster.  

Beth [00:38:20] Well, it would be. I mean, I don't want to be flippant about that because it would be a very big deal. It would be a very, very big deal. And I agree with you. This is a very stable administration, especially compared to its predecessor. And I think that one of the worst reported aspects of this administration is what Vice President Harris does, what her portfolio includes, what her foreign visits consist of. If you watch her on the road and it's hard to find, you have to look for it. She's very good. She looks comfortable at these international meetings. People around the world have gotten to know her. She's had impact in Central America. She's had impact in the Indo-Pacific. I think she has not gotten credit for how sharp she has become, especially around foreign policy. And that's the thing you worry about the most if the president dies, right? That's the place where subbing out the commander in chief is a scary proposition. And that seems to me to be the role she has most prepared for as vice president.  

Sarah [00:39:35] Yeah. I think that, for me, I've really just tried to let go of his personality and just say, these are the policies he has promised to invoke. There will be less access to not just abortion, but believe birth control, because those thousands of people that are going to institute his policies when he's not looking. One of them said in the pages of the New York Times, "I've told him to stop talking about it and keep it a secret from voters." Literally, that was a quote. Literally, that was an actual quote in the pages of The New York Times. Okay, so the abortion situation will get more and more radical. They want to go back to this crisis we had during and after the pandemic, where there really was not enough labor because they shut down not just illegal, but legal immigration. So the prices of everything will rise. And this isolationism that sounds good in theory involves massive tariffs and massive taxes on imports that will absolutely impact your pocketbook.  

Beth [00:40:39] While undermining the legislation that has been passed on a bipartisan basis during this administration to build some capacity for America to be able to operate more independently. That's the thing. You want to go it alone in the economy, you got to make stuff, and we have to build some things to make more of the products that are essential for competition and even just basic operations in 2024.  

Sarah [00:41:09] And he showed a total lack of capacity to build anything. He didn't want to build infrastructure. He doesn't want to do anything unless it is captured in a way that makes him or someone he knows money. Doesn't matter if it hurts the rest of us. It's a total and complete corrupt capture. We saw that he was appointing his friends to us, with no experience, that would send government contracts their way, and would run the agencies into the ground in ways that really impacted people's everyday lives. I mean, he was bad at the job. It wasn't just that he refused to give it up and led an insurrection on the steps of the United States Capitol, which I know is hard to lose sight of and I want to just say it again until people really listen. But it's not working. It's that he was bad at the job. And that's not even talking about his complete and total abdication of any responsibility for the pandemic. We didn't even get to that. We haven't even touched that part.  

Beth [00:42:00] Well, we've got time.  

Sarah [00:42:02] Well. Thank God, I guess. So that's the conversations we're going to be having here at Pantsuit Politics, and hopefully with our friends and family and fellow citizens, because here we are. Away we go, everybody. Away we go.  

Beth [00:42:18] Because he will be on the ballot, as the Supreme Court has told us today as we sat down to record. And I will be covering their reason for that in detail on More to Say, and hope you will join me there for that discussion.  

Sarah [00:42:39] Beth, we had a very controversial conversation about bed making. Maybe you heard.  

Beth [00:42:44] I can never talk about bed making again for the rest of my life, except with my children who will still make their beds.  

Sarah [00:42:51] I'm even more invested in the conversation now. Alice, though, sent us a really great email in response to that, and she was talking about your mention of making things a priority. And she said, "Well, also, what I've done as I've gotten older is make things not a priority." She has a list of don'ts.  

Beth [00:43:08] I like it.  

Sarah [00:43:09] I thought that was a really good list and a thing to think about now as we're celebrating your birthday. As we get older, what are our don'ts?  

Beth [00:43:16] Here is the one at the top of my list. I don't do class parties.  

Sarah [00:43:22] Do people still do those?  

Beth [00:43:24] Yeah. And this is a decision that has really helped my life, because I am prone to feeling like I should do everything, especially as it relates to school and kids. Because I so want to support my kids classrooms and their teachers. But when an email comes out like, would you like to organize the class party for this? I have just decided I don't do that. I will buy anything that is needed. I will send in something, I will be encouraging and grateful, but I will not organize the class party. And making that choice has made my life better.  

Sarah [00:43:58] What else? What other don'ts do you have?  

Beth [00:44:01] I also have decided for this season-- now, this one is not a forever decision I think, but for this season, I don't want to spend a whole lot of my time or money in a salon. So I don't color my hair. I rarely get pedicures anymore. I've taken manicures off my list. I used to really enjoy that, so I'm not slamming it. I used to enjoy it. And maybe sometime in my life I will again. But right now I don't enjoy it, so I just don't think about it a whole lot. I only like to get a pedicure if I go with a friend and we chit chat while we're getting pedicures, that's fun to me.  

Sarah [00:44:38] I don't do it cause I don't like the smell of the acrylic nails, and there's very few places you can go where they don't also do acrylic nails, and I just don't. I can't handle the smell.  

Beth [00:44:45] Yeah, I get it.  

Sarah [00:44:46] My list is much longer than yours, for what it's worth. Because I don't cook, so that's a huge one. I don't cook. My husband cooks. Alice had I don't iron on her list. I also do not iron. I do not garden. I really don't weed either, for that matter. I don't color my hair as well. I do not do the pedicures or the manicures. I agree with that. Now I have one that has shifted that I thought I would share, and I don't-- because I think you're right. I think some of these are just for seasons, and we have to acknowledge and leave a little grace in the process, because five years ago I would have told you I don't do cold water. I don't do cold ever. My college roommate used to say I would put myself in heat comas. I'd turn the heat up real high, and I would take a nap for like two hours. But ever since my truly spiritual and life changing experience and the Irish Sea at 40 Foot in Dublin, I'm coming around. And this winter I've been doing my sauna blanket that my husband got me for Christmas and then taking a cold shower. And, Beth, I think I might be a convert.  

Beth [00:45:58] Well, good for you. I don't want any part in that right now, but good for you.  

Sarah [00:46:01] But listen, my friend Todd told me that when he did cold showers for a year-- I think he did plunges. I'm not ready for that level yet. Although, I do think that is the best way to experience cold water is to jump in. You're not going to walk in. Your feet are going to hit the cold water and your brain is going to go, don't. Absolutely don't. You got to jump in. And jumping is the key. But he told me the year he did it, he didn't have so much as the sniffles, not so much as the sniffles. And I really think there's something to that, especially with the sauna blanket. I'm basically giving myself a low grade fever. I mean, I'm turning my body temperature up so much, and then I'm getting into the cold shower, which is also like sort of putting your body through the paces like riling everything up, but in a controlled way. My mood is improved. I do feel like my immune system has improved, so I've come around on cold water. I'm telling you.  

Beth [00:46:58] I have another one, I don't scrapbook.  

Sarah [00:47:00] Okay. This one upset me too. Listen, time out. Because Alice also said she doesn't organize her photos. And I need to know more about that because I think, what do you mean by scrapbooking? Because that could be like I am producing pages with multiple cutouts and glue and decoration. But some people say scrapbooking means like a photobook. There is a universe of choice in here, so I need you to clarify.  

Beth [00:47:27] Yeah, and for right now, I don't participate in that universe of choice. I just don't.  

Sarah [00:47:30] You don't do anything with your photos?  

Beth [00:47:32] No.  

Sarah [00:47:33] I'm concerned about this.  

Beth [00:47:35] I might send them to my parents. This is a judgment-free zone.  

Sarah [00:47:38] I'm sorry, I just, I have some concerns.  

Beth [00:47:40] I know that judgment free-zones are difficult for some of us. 

Sarah [00:47:45] But you back them up. You don't just leave them on your phone.  

Beth [00:47:48] No, I put them in Google Photos. But I mean, no effort. It's just an automated thing. I'm not calling them. I'm not. I just don't because I don't want to. I figure one day I will. I have a huge box of stuff from my wedding. And I told Chad, when I retire, maybe I'll make something cool of all of our wedding stuff, but right now it's just in the box. I don't want to do this.  

Sarah [00:48:12] Do you hear my deep breathing?  

Beth [00:48:13] I'm living my life not telling the story of living my life. I'm not recommending it or bragging. I'm just being honest about what I don't do.  

Sarah [00:48:21] I do remember in the sequel -- which is bad, to Terms of Endearment, with Shirley MacLaine. It's a bad movie. Don't watch it. But there's this thing she does where she has this big closet overflowing with all this stuff, and she goes through and makes these beautiful scrapbooks for every year of her life. And I just read this amazing book called Severe Mercy, where the author, Sheldon Vanauken is telling the story of losing his wife that he was very much in love with. It's a story of their love story and their conversion to Christianity. And then she dies sort of tragically and unexpectedly. And his part of his grief process, he goes through every letter, every photo. He gets the smells associated with her and he goes through year by year and kind of goes through their lives. So there is something deeply appealing to me about taking a moment at the end of your life to do this. I just think -- hear me out here.  

Beth [00:49:13] I've heard you. I know how you feel about memory keeping, I get it.  

Sarah [00:49:16] No, it's not about for us. I mean, what if you don't make it? What if something happens and then your kids have all this stuff to sort through? That's my worry.  

Beth [00:49:26] If I don't make it, my kids are going to be so lucky because there are thousands of hours of me talking available in any medium.  

Sarah [00:49:38] That's how I think. I think about that a lot.  

Beth [00:49:39] They will have something from me. I do not feel one ounce of guilt. And even if I didn't have a podcast, live photos and video are so prevalent now, none of us are lost to our kids.  

Sarah [00:49:53] I don't mean they won't have memories of you. I mean they'll have to figure out what to do with all this stuff.  

Beth [00:49:58] I don't keep much other stuff though. It's just my wedding stuff. I don't keep papers. No, I am not sentimental in that way. No, no.  

Sarah [00:50:05] Okay. I still think sorting through the photos is a lot. I do have a process to turn these into books that I'm happy to share with anybody. But I don't cull or organize, everything is just getting uploaded to the cloud. And I do think there's just this, like, lurking situation in the cloud for all of us, that we just pretend like it's something we don't need to organize or go through. It's coming for us, all of us. This digital place. But I've also gone through phases where I got too aggressive and I accidentally deleted the video of Amos's birth, which I can't find anymore. So it's a balance. I didn't mean to have you contemplate your own mortality on your birthday; although, I do think that sort of built into the equation.  

Beth [00:50:51] I always contemplate my own mortality on my birthday. It's fine. I have one more.  

Sarah [00:50:56] Okay.  

Beth [00:50:56] Somewhat controversial.  

Sarah [00:50:58] I'm excited.  

Beth [00:50:59] I do not electronically track, monitor, or surveil my children in any way. I do not use Life360. I do not use anything around their social media. 

Sarah [00:51:12] Well, you have Find My iPhone, though.  

Beth [00:51:14] Sure.  

Sarah [00:51:16] Okay.  

Beth [00:51:17] But I don't pull it up to see where they are. I use it if I've lost something, which I am the most likely person in our house to do. I'm always like, where's my iPad? Help me find it. Beep, beep, beep. But no, I don't monitor them in any way.  

Sarah [00:51:30] Well, I do. Obviously, I do for Felix because he's a diabetic and I need to know where he is, if his blood sugar is up. 

Beth [00:51:37] That's different, though. Yeah. 

Sarah [00:51:39] But Griffin and Amos, because they spend a lot of their after school time, they're not in my neighborhood like your kids are. They're not in my town. I mean, Amos doesn't have a phone, so I put a tag in his backpack because I'm like, did he remember to walk to his art lessons? And I think that's really helpful. But I do think it's something to think about as teenagers can't be teenagers because they just know they're being tracked all the time. And I do use Bark, not really because I'm surveilling Griffin, but because I do want to have any mention of particular suicidal ideation flagged for me from his friends or from him, just because I feel like the stakes are so high and I want a little bit of surveillance. And I told him, I'm like, I can't just cede this territory where you spend so much of your time and say, I have no idea what's going on there. I can't watch you there. And so I feel like I have to do something, but I don't use it very often. I get Bark alerts all the time, and so often they're just whatever side website was running in the background of whatever. I barely check it. But I do pay attention to anything that's like language oriented around suicidal ideation or drug use.  

Beth [00:52:44] I get it. Again, this is not a judgment or a brag. It's just a thing I don't do. It's just the thing I've taken off my list. Because there are so many ways that you can invest in your parenting. There's a finite amount of parenting energy to spend. And this is one that I've just said I'm not going to do that.  

Sarah [00:53:02] Do you think you'll turn it on when she starts driving?  

Beth [00:53:06] I think she'll want me to. I could see her asking for that, which I think is a different conversation. But I'll tell you what--  

Sarah [00:53:13] Freaking Life360 will tell you if they're speeding. 

Beth [00:53:18] I hate being monitored. I hate it. One of the only things that Chad does that drives me crazy is when our credit card will notify him that I've gotten a drink at Sonic or something, and he'll be like, "How's that Cherry Coke treating you?" I hate it.  

Sarah [00:53:35] It's the worst. Nicholas did that and I was like, if you don't stop that, I'm going to divorce you. Cut it out.  

Beth [00:53:39] Again, truly getting the Cherry Coke is the most subversive thing I do with my time. It's not like I'm hiding anything. I just value some privacy in the universe. And so I am very reluctant, just because of my own personality, to make them feel monitored in any way.  

Sarah [00:53:58] It's so funny. I remember my freshman year in college, I went for a walk in Lexington. I just decided one afternoon, I didn't tell my roommate, I just walked down to a coffee shop. And I remember thinking, oh my God, no one knows where I am. This is the first time I think literally no one knows where I am. I'm not with someone, my mom doesn't know, no one knows. And I remember telling one of my freshman professors and she was kind of like, okay, but maybe tell somebody. And I felt like she was clearly totally freaked out and horrified, but I was so excited I couldn't wait to share this insight. But she was like, maybe tell somebody.  

Beth [00:54:33] Yeah, I get the safety aspects of things, but I do like to have my privacy and so I want to respect that with them too.  

Sarah [00:54:41] Well, I cannot wait to hear everybody should nots. I would like some more. I want some good ideas. I want to hear some more that I can add to my lists. I like to add things I don't do as I get older. I'm here for that, leaving more room for things that we can do that are exciting and keep us young at heart.  

Beth [00:54:57] Thank you, Alice for this excellent prompt.  

Sarah [00:55:00] Yes. Good job, Alice. All right. Beth, happy birthday.  

Beth [00:55:05] Thanks.  

Sarah [00:55:06] You're welcome. I'm so glad that you were born.  

Beth [00:55:09] I appreciate that. I'm glad you were born, too.  

Sarah [00:55:12] We're so glad that all of you joined us again today. We will be back in your ears on Friday. And until then keep it nuanced y'all. 

Sarah: Pantsuit Politics is produced by Studio D Podcast Production. 

Beth: Alise Napp is our managing director. Maggie Penton is our director of Community Engagement. 

Sarah: Xander Singh is the composer of our theme music with inspiration from original work by Dante Lima. 

Beth: Our show is listener-supported. Special thanks to our executive producers. 

Executive Producers: Martha Bronitsky. Ali Edwards. Janice Elliott. Sarah Greenup. Julie Haller. Tiffany Hasler. Emily Holladay. Katie Johnson. Katina Zuganelis Kasling. Barry Kaufman. Katherine Vollmer. Laurie LaDow. Lily McClure. Linda Daniel. The Pentons. Tracey Puthoff. Sarah Ralph. Jeremy Sequoia. Katie Stigers. Karin True. Onica Ulveling. Nick and Alysa Villeli. Amy Whited. Emily Helen Olson. Lee Chaix McDonough. Morgan McHugh. Jen Ross. Sabrina Drago. Becca Dorval. Christina Quartararo. Shannon Frawley. Jessica Whitehead. Samantha Chalmers. Crystal Kemp. The Lebo Family. The Adair Family. 

Sarah: Jeff Davis. Melinda Johnston. Michelle Wood. Nichole Berklas. Paula Bremer and Tim Miller. 

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