Your Personality Shapes Your Politics: The Enneagram and the 2024 Election
TOPICS DISCUSSED
The Enneagram and the Election
Outside of Politics: Solving Laundry
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EPISODE RESOURCES
Enneagram Self-Typing Guide: this is a free digital download encompassing my 13 years of experience as an Enneagram Teacher and Trainer, in hopes to help people cut through the noise as they try to identify their primary Enneagram type.
Enneagram Type Specific Course: with this link, listeners can get 50% off their Type-Specific Enneagram Online Course. The modules and guided workbook are meant to help folks go deeper into their personal awareness, as well as make an action plan of how to integrate what they are learning into how they are in the world. They can also use the code ‘PANTSUIT’ at checkout for the 50% off as well.
Follow Living the Enneagram on Instagram
Sarah's Laundy Basket (Amazon)
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TRANSCRIPT
Sarah [00:00:07] This is Sarah Stewart Holland.
Beth [00:00:09] This is Beth Silvers.
Sarah [00:00:10] You're listening to Pantsuit Politics.
Beth [00:00:12] Where we take a different approach to the news.
Sarah [00:00:30] Welcome to the show. I am so glad you're here with me today. Alas, Beth is out sick. And we are all sending her healing thoughts and well wishes. Luckily, we have an amazing interview that we did with Erin Baute, a certified Enneagram teacher and trainer, to talk about how the presidential cycle works on all our personalities. And, listen, you do not need to be an Enneagram expert to listen to this. You don't even need to know your Enneagram number because, one, Erin is amazing. And, two, what we're really talking about is how this communal, stressful experience we call presidential election is going to act on us and how we are going to act towards each other. And I think that is an interest to everyone. And then Outside of Politics, Maggie Penton, our community engagement director, is joining me today for Outside of Politics to talk about laundry, because Beth and I had a conversation about tension in our households. Was that on the premium channels, Maggie?
Maggie [00:01:29] I think so. I feel like you just tossed out there that you had solved your laundry.
Sarah [00:01:34] I did. I was like, oh, by the way, guys, I've solved laundry. And then we just moved on and all of y'all were like, excuse me, could you go back? Excuse me, question. What do you mean? Can you please tell me?
Maggie [00:01:45] Yeah. That's exactly how it went.
Sarah [00:01:47] Yeah. So I'm going to share it today. I don't want to brag. I don't want to overpromise, but I think I have something. So that's what we're talking about Outside of Politics. Now a few housekeeping things before we get to that. First and foremost, about 81% of you listen to this podcast on the Apple Podcast app. That's fine. Listen wherever you want to listen. We don't care. We just want you to listen. But we've had some changes surrounding the Apple Podcast app and the iOS 17 system. Maggie tell the people that change.
Maggie [00:02:22] So Apple has changed some of the default settings in podcasts app. So I think that just really impact-- I'm not actually sure how it works because I listen on overcast, but I think instead of downloading an episode like automatically so that you just like play them all-- I don't know. But I think what you need to do as a listener is make sure that you're subscribed to Pantsuit Politics, make sure you're following Pantsuit Politics. Make sure whatever little buttons you need to change so that Apple knows that you're listening to the podcast.
Sarah [00:03:01] Yes, because I think basically what they did is stopped downloading several episodes back. If you hadn't listened in a while, because I think some of y'all sort of binge listen, you don't listen for a while and you listen to a bunch, and it won't go back and download those old episodes. And that has dramatically and negatively impacted our numbers, which impacts our ad sales, which is how we run this business, which is how we pay Maggie and Elise. And so it's been intense. And so you can do something to help us with this. We all don't have to be beholden to these iOS 17 changes. So here's what you can do, if you are listening on an Apple device and you have upgraded to iOS 17, you just go into the podcast app, you choose our show, and you look for those three dots at the top right hand corner of the screen. Okay, then set the download option to automatically download the five latest episodes. This will not only ensure that you get all our latest shows promptly, but it is a huge, huge help to us. So if you're like, man, I just want to do something for this show that I listen to, that I love, that brings a lot of value to my life, this is a very easy thing you can do if you listen in the Apple Podcast app, and we would very much appreciate it. And we will put these instructions in the show notes. Fear not. Now, there's some other things too. For our premium members, we are excited to be hosting our very first quarterly live event of 2024. We have a virtual live sort of ask us anything type event. Maggie, tell the people what the last few of these have been. They've been a little wild.
Maggie [00:04:28] They have been a little wild.
Sarah [00:04:29] I like it, I'm here for it.
Maggie [00:04:31] Oh, man. The one in December, I feel like one of them was like super unhinged. It was amazing.
Sarah [00:04:38] Yeah. Y'all, we just get on there and we sort of have a plan, but then we're like I want to talk about this. Instead.
Maggie [00:04:45] We had special announcements; we told the people on the Ask Us Anything about Pete Buttigieg and we told them about Hillary Clinton.
Sarah [00:04:53] Yeah. Hillary Clinton too, I think. You get some exciting announcements. The energy's a little chaotic. We just like it. It's just fun. And so we want you to come. Now, if you are a premium member through Apple Podcast subscriptions, not Patreon, you will need to make sure we have your email address so that we can send you the login information for this event that is taking place on Thursday, March 14th. So if you're already a subscriber, obviously, especially on Apple Podcasts, let us know your email. If you're not a subscriber, what are you waiting for? Come on over and join us! The community is amazing and it's particularly amazing on nights like that. So you can send that information to Hello@pantsuitpoliticsshow.com, and we'll get you hooked up. Now, if you're a premium member, not only are we going to have a fun night together on the 14th, we also have loads of great book club content coming your way. Next week we'll be sharing our conversation with Ben Terris, author of The Big Break. And Best Jam, and Elise will be hosting a live discussion for listeners on Thursday, March 8th. Again, one more time. If you subscribe through Apple Podcast subscription, please email us at Hello@pantsuitpoliticsshow.com so that we can get your email and share all of these fun events and content with you, please. Okay, I think that's all our housekeeping. Next up, we are so excited to share this conversation with Erin Baute who is a behavior and business strategist. She's here to talk to us about how the presidential cycle can act in good and bad ways on all our personalities and motivations.
Beth [00:06:23] Erin, we are so thrilled to have you here at Pantsuit Politics. I've talked with you on More to Say before, but I believe this is our first introduction of you to the general audience. So will you tell everybody just a little bit about who you are and the work you do?
Erin Baute [00:06:37] I would love to. I am self-identified as maybe the nerdiest person you meet. I have a hunger and an amorous for human behavior and why we do what we do. So I've been working in the field of behavior change and psychology for the past 20 years. And I discovered, like most people, the Enneagram is a really powerful tool in helping us understand the limits and the hiccups around what makes change hard for us as humans. So I've integrated the Enneagram in my work for the last like 13 years, and so I have the most incredible honor and privilege to work with primarily female entrepreneurs around how to build a business strategy that really allows them to be their fullest selves. I'm a huge believer that personal development is professional development, and the Enneagram gives me the tool to do that.
Sarah [00:07:36] And you reached out to us. Gosh, when was that? Several years ago.
Erin Baute [00:07:40] Yeah. It's been a minute.
Sarah [00:07:42] And did the most expert Enneagram analysis. So helpful, so thorough. And so, as we're moving into another presidential election, we're going to talk about balance. But it is this weird tension between high stakes and also wonk wonk because it's the most likely going to be the same guys again, that we thought, oh, let's bring Erin back here and let's use the Enneagram to help all of us navigate these intense presidential election years, especially this one. And so thanks for coming and joining us. There are a lot of types. And this is a high stakes time. So it's a rich environment for the Enneagram.
Erin Baute [00:08:20] I love it. I love the opportunity, quite honestly, to show the depth of personality psychology. We can sort of get caught up in--
Sarah [00:08:29] You mean it's not just an Instagram carousel?
Erin Baute [00:08:31] It is. It is in a lot of ways. But the scientist in me, I'm actively finishing my dissertation. There's some real meat in this that I think can be utilized to make really positive change. And I think that's what our climate really desperately needs right now is some deep, positive change.
Sarah [00:08:55] So for someone who has not seen an Instagram carousel about the Enneagram, can you give us the elevator pitch about this tool that you just said has a lot of depth?
Erin Baute [00:09:02] Yeah. The elevator pitch is complicated. Because it's a framework. It's a model. It's a theoretical framework. If I'm going to be super nerdy about it, we think about like Maslow's hierarchy of needs, it's been researched and studied and it has a lot of like and merit behind it, outside of just cute, quirky names, which I love. I will say. And it is intended to help us understand the motivations for why we do things that live underneath our behaviors. Behaviors are just a picture of how we act and how we learn to act in any context. And so they change when the context change. The Enneagram for me filled that gap of why am I carrying this through every role in my life? Why is this the thing that I hold on to? And sort of gets a window into the things that are most important to us, even if we can't verbalize them because they live so deep inside our neurobiology. They're just part of our DNA.
Beth [00:10:08] So, Erin, I think is an orientation to this tool, it might be helpful for listeners to hear you do a quick overview of Sarah and me as Enneagram types. Because you've spent time with us individually and you are a listener of the show. So I know you have a perspective, and I feel like that might be more concrete than just saying type one's usually do this.
Erin Baute [00:10:30] Yeah. That would be my favorite thing to do. And it's been a beautiful thing to watch you step into that. So will you tell me (because it's not my job to tell you) what you relate to in terms of type and potential subtype, if you know that.
Beth [00:10:50] You want to start, Sarah, since you reference your type all the time and people will not be surprised with that.
Sarah [00:10:54] You go first.
Beth [00:10:57] I'm an Enneagram two. That is the type that I primarily gravitate toward. And what I relate to in that is the sense of wanting to be loved and wanting to be of service to everyone at all times, often at the expense of my own needs. I've done a lot of work around that, so I feel more connected to that pull to four that is often recommended for twos. And I relate to the stress of an eight, where I will sometimes exercise an inappropriate amount of control because I want everything to be okay.
Erin Baute [00:11:31] Yeah.
Beth [00:11:33] The subtypes have honestly been more helpful to me than the primary types and understanding some of my relationships. So my stacking is that I am first sexual subtype or I gravitate towards very intense, deep, one on one relationships. Secondly, social and thirdly, self preservation. So I do have this vicious cycle of like what is really important for me goes to the bottom of the list compared to what's really important to other people.
Erin Baute [00:12:01] Absolutely. Okay. Yeah. That's great.
Sarah [00:12:04] I'm an Enneagram one. But part of that recognition is come just sort of how I started. I don't identify as much with the way people talk about Enneagram once anymore, because I think I've done a lot of work on it, and I can see those instincts in myself. It took me a long time to find language around Enneagram one that fit. I'm not a perfectionist. My stuff is rife with typos, but I heard a person describe Enneagram ones as better. Like the voice in their head is better, better, better. And that is still very, very true for me. Very true. But as I've learned more about heading in the direction of a seven, being more spontaneous, being more grateful and having fun, I really identify with that and I feel like I've held that balance. And then the subtypes, I'm not as familiar with. Definitely, I welcome your input. I definitely think I'm probably sexual too, like it's like a one on one, but I probably have a higher self-preservation instinct. I will protect my time. I will protect my energy. I always joke Beth walks into a room and feels responsible for everyone's emotions. And I feel responsible for no one's emotions. And so that's where I'm at.
Erin Baute [00:13:24] I love it, and I love that both of you hold the complexity of it and so much more, because we often correlate Enneagram type with the like core of my identity. And it's a piece of it. Like a trivial pursuit pie. It's a piece of the pie. But so is my gender and my religion and my cultural upbringing and the trauma that I experience and my mental health. I mean, all of these things make up the pie and make it really complicated, which is why language like perfectionism or people pleaser are flawed and misleading in the Enneagram, because there's no way we can capture all of that. And so I sit in the camp of this, the subtypes, those instincts become more helpful at telling my story, what's happening in my body around safety and what keeps me moving in the world. And that type just becomes the expression of that. If I had to guess, Sarah, I would say that there's some social oriented one in you, the one that you put all three subtypes together look very different. You wouldn't think that they're all ones. One of them is traditionally a perfectionist. That's the self-professed one who holds perfection in my body, as I must do everything good and right. The social one really looks out to the world and says, if we would just do everything well. The sort of social order and a lot of social responsibility which you hear from you really eloquently.
Sarah [00:15:06] That's what I like to call my 20s. That was me in my twenties.
Erin Baute [00:15:09] Yeah, right. And then the relational one is actually the counter type. I say relational. Sexual. It's the same thing. The relational one is the counter type, meaning they project perfectionism on other people. If you would just do it better, we would be okay. So they kind of look eightish. They get mistyped a lot because they're sort of big energy. I'll start with Sarah and then we'll go to Beth. We hold all of that, that sort of social order. I care about the greater good. I want the world to be right. It's very ethical and moral and righteous and just for all people. And I have a high sense of standard in myself. And then I look at the line from one to four to seven, not as health or stress, but as resources. And I hold them like ropes, like tethers and I pull on them. And I might pull on one of them harder and stress than I do the other. But the goal is to learn when and how to use them. And for me, that visualization of tethering to these other types is how we practice emotional and social intelligence.
Sarah [00:16:26] I can't imagine that a presidential election is a pretty fraught environment for social subtypes.
Erin Baute [00:16:32] Yes, it is. And it's a trigger. That social instinct, that's mine too, is rooted in belonging. And everybody wants to belong. But the social aspect of us, that instinctual pattern, if it's tied to my nervous system it's tied to safety. So rejection means that I am unsafe in this world, and that's like equivalent to death. And it's why twos get mistyped a lot. Because we take the belonging and tie it to people pleasing, and we think they're the same thing. And so lots of social subtypes get piked on the two because that inherent biological need to be safe at all costs can look like people pleasing. So, yeah, you got all that complex.
Sarah [00:17:22] That nervous system spoke to me because in the 2020 election, I had to run for 30 minutes every day or I was basically in a constant panic attack. I just had to give my body constant feedback. It's okay, it's okay, it's okay, it's okay. It was very intense.
Erin Baute [00:17:38] Yeah. Right. I love this work because we're taking development and growth tools out of the head and putting them in the body. That's where change lives. And that's why this work is really hard and most people don't do it.
Beth [00:17:54] That body component has been really important to me. So do you want to quickly walk people through what you what you see in my typing and then we can kind of go to a more general conversation?
Erin Baute [00:18:04] Yeah. So it's a little more complicated for the two because you tethered to eight and you tether to four. And that relational to there's a lot of heat in there. There's a lot of passion in my service and my care taking. Most relational or sexual types have a little more energy, a little more oomph behind them, a little bigger in their personality. And we've got that hard tether to eight and to four. But we also recognize that as a two who tethers to four, you're connecting to another heart type. And then you're connecting to eight, which is a big energetic anger type. So now you're just rife with emotion. There's so much big energy under it that we can add a tether for the two to the type five. If we were to connect the rest of the model together, you add the third rope to you on what would it be like? Which I think, Beth, you do beautifully to bring in the [inaudible] of the five and slow down emotion and add thought and reflection and discernment and curiosity. And so I think what I've watched over the last couple of years is the both of you break out of the fixation of a type, like the single bucket, and start to embody this bigger version of ourselves. And that's the human experience. I hope by the time we are at end of life, we look like all the types and none of them at the same time. And I think that's what makes this work in this tool so helpful is how do I unbox rather than just stay in it?
Beth [00:19:44] I love that.
Sarah [00:19:45] Well, and to me, that's like the risk and opportunity of a presidential election for everybody. It sucks, it's stressful. And it's a thing that we're all in together, which can amplify the suck and the stressful, but that means it's also an opportunity to learn more about yourself, to learn more about the people around you, to learn more about the country, whether you want to see it or not. I think that's the sort of central thesis of our work is instead of running from these moments that just feel so fraught and anxiety ridden, like, what if we just sort of dove through the middle and said, what can we learn about each other? What can we learn about ourselves through this sort of forced effort, this forced challenge?
Erin Baute [00:20:32] Yeah, I appreciated this conversation because I have a big, big, big belief that in terms of social responsibility and democracy and social justice and equality and equity and all the things that we want for the world, I have to be able to do that for myself before I can offer it to other people. This core component of humanity, and humanizing self, I think, is self-awareness work. It is identity work, and it requires a deep level of self love and self care and self-worth in order to offer that to another person. If we can't do that for self, if we're living in stress and our fear responses, which is often what our Enneagram type is. Our Enneagram type when we're sitting in it is some of the worst parts of ourselves in fixation. It's our limitations. Then we're only operating from a survival response, and we offer no grace to ourselves and no grace to others. And it's really hard to navigate these really challenging political times without it.
Beth [00:21:44] It seems important to me to recognize-- and I think we often do not recognize this-- that a lot of how I feel and interact with people around an election is about getting my own needs met through it. And sometimes those needs are grand ones, like our desire for justice in the world, and sometimes they are small ones. Like I notice in myself one reason that I am kind of won wonk about this election is that I love the novelty of an election cycle when we are learning about all these new candidates. Even people who are never going to get across the finish line, there's a moment when it feels worthwhile to really get to know that person and see what the path for that person could look like, and what kind of voter could that person pick up. And as we're recording, this election seem so stuck in two people that we already know very well that my need for that intellectual novelty is not getting met. And I'm trying to recognize like, that doesn't have anything to do with our audience. That's not super helpful, but it does help me investigate my motivations around how I cover this election.
Sarah [00:22:55] Well, and I just think I like people and I see politicians as people and I realize that is rare. I don't think a lot of people interact with the election like that. Like at the end of the day, I am fascinated by humans and human behavior. And maybe because I lived in DC and was personally interacting with people, that really drives me. Like when I was reading through some of your list of how the different types interact, my husband is a six, he is motivated by safety and it was like you were describing him word for word in your list. Because he doesn't care. There's no people orientation during the election in the same way that I'm sort of motivated and fascinated by that. And so when he talks about it and it's just like the world is going to end, this is going to refreshing the 538 thing 3 million times a day to see where the numbers are. Like the fascination with info and wanting information to tell him he's going to be safe, it's just so far from how I experienced the election. And I think you just see that play out across families and across couples that that self is so consuming, like we all have that central character energy that you forget that's not what's motivating someone else. Like, even if we could just like have a little pep talk every morning and say, okay, every good morning to another day in the presidential election year, it's very stressful. Your stress will bring out things in you that it will not bring it out in other people and vice versa. Just a fun, friendly reminder for everybody.
Erin Baute [00:24:21] And their stress doesn't necessarily mean anything about you.
Sarah [00:24:25] Yes, that's the hardest one.
Erin Baute [00:24:29] And we take it so personally because we're in stress, because we're tender, because our body's vulnerable, we feel emotionally vulnerable that when somebody doesn't accept our idea or whatever our trigger is, it's another hit to our body to say, go into protective mode, dive deeper into these things that aren't serving me.
Beth [00:24:58] So, Erin,, I think one of your real gifts, in addition to understanding how the numbers operate and how the structure around the Enneagram works, is just giving people words for the emotions that arise that correspond with those numbers. So knowing that we have people who don't know what their type is listening, can you walk through what are some of the stressors that arise commonly for all the types around an election?
Erin Baute [00:25:24] Yeah. And what I want to sort of qualify is that the natural responses for people to go, well, lots of those things are true for me, the answer to that is yes. Because again we look at behavior. Behavior is learned. It's contextual. It is a skill around adaptation. So my hope is we see lots of ourselves in these things. The way the Enneagram becomes sort of magical is it tethers to the thing that is living deep, viscerally in my body that sort of feels like you got sucker punched. That's the difference between the motivation and the behavior. And so I'll share these and also know that, yeah, that's true for lots of us. So I think when we look at the sort of the negative traits of type, we can see their motivation and fixation. And then it just sort of plays out behaviorally in lots of contexts. So I give ideas, but we can talk about what we've seen in other ways as well, where the type one might approach the presidential cycle, their candidate, their belief system with this righteous lemonade. Like I am so right and I have to defend this at all costs. And it does feel like a slight to my integrity and my goodness and my humanity if you disagree, because my rigidity in my orientation and my body doesn't know how to accept anything other than this right thing. So it's super offensive to my worthiness for you to say anything else.
Beth [00:27:08] Can I offer too, since I live with a man who I believe is a one as well, and who is fairly apolitical, he is informed, but he does not enjoy politics and he does not get worked up about the election. I think that I see in him that righteousness play out in writing off the process is pretty terrible. And so it can manifest as like this candidate is the worst or this candidate is the best, and this is absolutely the right outcome. But I think for other people it can manifest in like caring about this is pretty silly because it's all hopeless anyway.
Erin Baute [00:27:44] Exactly. So it is the righteousness. It is the sort of rigidity that is the cause. But where I place it is subjective. That's exactly right.
Sarah [00:27:57] You're going to see some Enneagram ones with third party candidates this election cycle. I'm very confident of that. Just prepare yourselves accordingly.
Beth [00:28:05] Well, I think about this really fascinating interview Sarah that I did once with a kind of libertarian leaning podcast, or at least they described their audience as largely libertarian leaning. And we talked about how the risk there is to tie up your emotion in your rationality, that's it's like you're so busy saying that everybody else is so emotional that you don't see that you're emotional about not being emotional. Like, you can't just walk away from all of it. I wish we could, but it's not available.
Erin Baute [00:28:35] Yeah. And and it's a misnomer of being a human. We're emotional, not cognitive. And so when we practice taking the emotion out of things, there's no such thing, we just disassociate.
Beth [00:28:48] Yeah.
Sarah [00:28:49] Yeah.
Erin Baute [00:28:49] So the type two, we might see that quality of pride come up. So it might be sort of overbearing. It might be patronizing. It might be like I know best kind of way. And that is that practice of over anticipating for other people. So I get really caught up in my body process that knowing what other people think or need or what is best for them is what feels safe to me. That's how I'm oriented, my level of love and acceptance. And so it can look a little bossy around this is what we need to do and what's what's good or right or true. And I can see a lot of heat and emotion and pride come out of that.
Beth [00:29:36] I feel like this is why I get mistaken for a nine, because I think that doesn't really come across for me. And I just want everybody to know it's just that I'm hiding it well. I've practiced prioritizing other people's needs to feel heard over that passion that does arise in me. And I have tried to check my bossiness on behalf of others. I don't always do it successfully. Probably maybe I'm batting 400 or something, but...
Sarah [00:30:05] I want to hear the three and four because I get those numbers confused a lot.
Erin Baute [00:30:08] Yeah, that's fair. And I think that's normal.
Sarah [00:30:11] Three through five I get confused if I'm being honest.
Erin Baute [00:30:13] What I will say to your comment, I also think this is me like standing outside projecting in. The fact that you have taken such an interest in staying with your body, with yoga, and I've followed your food journey and all of those things, I think that part of allowing to make space for emotion is really important. And you will hear me say this a million times, that the body plays the most significant role in all of this work. So three is are action-oriented type. They are the doers. But in an unhealthy three or someone who is maybe looking at the president's presidential cycle might be way more performative than purposeful. Like I might have the t shirt and the cup and have the sticker on my car and the signs in my yard, but I am not doing a damn thing to make make any change. And actually, maybe in my home, my language, everything isn't in alignment with the shirt that I'm wearing and the cup that I'm carrying. It's way more about visual performance than connecting to the truth and the authenticity of it. Whereas, four is let's just go all the way to the other side of that, where it's like I'm just going to go all in on the meaning. Like the meaning is the only thing that matters. I just want to feel really deeply about it. And so I might actually be like-- well, what we misrepresented, the four is actually the angriest Enneagram type. We think that's the eight. But because they're angry, their anger is vengeful. There's malice behind it. There's power for the eight energy, but there's like this sort of hostile I'm going to go into all of the meaning and there's going to be some rage underneath. Why? Maybe you don't have meaning to it. So as a seven, I tether into four and I hold that four really tightly and I can feel the pendulum of the shallow side of the seven and the deep side of the four and how do I hold tight in the middle of that?
Sarah [00:32:27] And then what about a five?
Erin Baute [00:32:29] Five? We start to move into the head type. So the five is often considered sage or amaris. They are like the best way to describe them. There are hoarders and they use information to create a sense of security. And then they hoard the energy around that information for what is unknown, what might be asked of them. I ultimately most times we're often asked a higher level of responsibility or to to be something at a young age that they were not able to be, and so that they learn that they have to have a lot of something in order to cope with the world. And so they keep it. They withhold.
Sarah [00:33:11] The sixes around 538 is refreshing. Trust me, I know.
Erin Baute [00:33:15] Yes, I'm married to a six as well, minus the counter type of six. So he looks like an eight. He goes at his fear. Which is why he works for DHS in counter-terrorism. Like I want to do the thing that will keep me the safest, and I want to be in the middle of it all. And so, again, motivated by fear and distrust. So an unhealthy version of six would be very distrusting of candidates, their word, the process. Like very conspiracy-ridden, I don't believe anything that I hear. Nothing is good information. Which is hard to navigate.
Sarah [00:33:57] Or good enough. That's what it feels like with my husband. He can't get enough good information. It doesn't matter if somebody's like they're polling at 99%. He's like, I don't trust it.
Erin Baute [00:34:05] Yes, I live with that.
Sarah [00:34:09] I would feel like a seven would struggle during a presidential because they like fun and spontaneity and they avoid pain. And it's a kind of a painful process, right?
Erin Baute [00:34:17] I would think an unhealthy seven is just not in it.
Sarah [00:34:20] Yeah. They're just going to time out.
Erin Baute [00:34:22] I'm out. I'm in Costa Rica on the beach and I don't even know what's happening. And I will probably say that sort of shallow, naive part of me was like my early 20s. And it's taken a lot of pain and heartbreak and healing and growth to be the version of seven that I am today.
Sarah [00:34:45] Yeah, I feel most sorry for seven and nine. I feel like they have probably the struggle.
Beth [00:34:50] Well, it seems like maybe some of these other numbers that have tendencies that make them prone to election burn out are getting a sort of influencer message of, like, just walk away from it, turn it off. It is too much. You don't know the world because it is too much.
Erin Baute [00:35:06] Right. And that that message is a trigger for me because it used to be my pattern. And so whenever I hear somebody say, set it down, cool. I get real on fire because I'm like, what about every marginalized body who does not get the choice to set it down? No, you do not get to set it down to get back up. [inaudible] the other way.
Sarah [00:35:27] So what about eight?
Erin Baute [00:35:29] Yeah. So eight is really thinking about I want to be the biggest power in the room. If I have the biggest energy, I am the safest. And so I'm willing to sort of bully other people, use my bigness, use my body, use my big gun, whatever it takes to make sure that I have whatever I need to feel safe over you. So think about arguments, think power struggles, really, really not allowing to make space for other people.
Sarah [00:36:09] Erin, is Donald Trump an eight?
Erin Baute [00:36:11] Again, I will preface that I don't know him.
Sarah [00:36:15] I feel like we all know him at this point, Erin.
Erin Baute [00:36:18] My guess is that he's a relational eight, which is like screw the rules. I'm okay being bad. I want to go against the norm. I think he's a very unhealthy relational eight. I'd maybe even put that seven wing on him, where there's some recklessness behind it, some excessiveness, and then it also adds some humanity back into it. Be with me for a minute with this. Donald Trump was running when I was finishing up my Enneagram certification and training. I studied for like six years. And I remember my master Enneagram teacher, her name is Doctor Debbie [sp] and she's phenomenal. I remember her saying humanity is about all people and really just holding that. And when I hold the archetype of eight over him, right or wrong, it reminds me that there is some real serious pain underneath there that makes a man act like that. It does not justify his behavior. I do not agree with him. I do not want him in office. I would prefer that he's in jail. All my personal opinion. But as a human, he wasn't born this way. Something made him this way. And it's pain and trauma. And so it allows for a little of the push-pull when I hold that up next to him.
Beth [00:37:51] Okay, you got to do nines. And then I need to hear what you think Joe Biden is.
Erin Baute [00:37:55] Okay. The nine, I think in a very unhealthy state, just take on the beliefs of important people around them. I've lost my voice. That's what a nine does to keep safe as they they prioritize comfort. And so I'm not going to use my own voice, and I'm going to just take on whatever's around me. And that can be kind of scary.
Sarah [00:38:19] There's a lot around you in a presidential election.
Erin Baute [00:38:21] Yeah. And so if it's too much or too overwhelming, I might just put my head in the sand. We might just get disengaged group of individuals in an unhealthy state.
Beth [00:38:33] Okay. Tell me about Joe Biden. What do you think Joe Biden is with the caveat that you don't know him and can't understand his motivations?
Erin Baute [00:38:38] I don't know him. Exactly. And I will say this, it is not ethical for any of us to tell anybody what somebody type is. So we are just playing and I know you all know that, but I just want the listeners to know that we don't tell people their types. So he honestly is more complex for me because he is more compliant in his energy. I look at his energy in the Enneagram, there are assertive types like the eight threes and sevens. There's compliant types like twos, sixes and ones. And there are passive types like nine fours and fives.
Sarah [00:39:20] Well, and you just have a lot to work with. He's been in public life for a long time, and his image has evolved. Because it's not how he is now, but they still say he's kind of a hothead. He taps anger very easily.
Erin Baute [00:39:32] Yes. He's got this very compliant energy where he sits in expectation well but he's sharp tongued. There's some sarcasm and wit in there. And so I kind of go in the sixth bucket. Like social six which can look like a one. Because social six when they have trust in the system government, I believe in it. I believe in democracy. I believe in the service to the people. I believe in the process that I can be really rigid in that. But the six sort of holds the, like, not that anybody else can't be witty or whatnot, but there's some depth in the sort of pain and suffering. Some wittiness, some sarcasm, some dark humor that he's really capable of. So he's interesting. And again, I don't know, but speculation that Barack Obama was a nine. Very egalitarian and sort of global looking and so could make sense why they were a good match because energetically they balanced each other very well. Those are my uneducated guesses.
Sarah [00:40:50] Well, this leads into my next question, which is what I think the other thing that we're like sort of talking around, but I want to name is in an election cycle because it is such a battle of personalities. It's not just the people around you that are going to act on you in this stress cycle, it's the candidates themselves and their personalities. And they might balance you. They might be the same as you. They might increase that stress, by tenfold because of their personality. I know people who grew up with narcissist who felt just triggered left, right and center by Donald Trump. So I think you also have to think about how these personalities affect you. Listen, Hillary Clinton's personalities are pretty aligned. Like our Enneagram types, if she's not a one, I don't know who is.
Erin Baute [00:41:45] I would guess it too.
Sarah [00:41:46] Exactly. But I think she's a very healthy one. And so when people would talk about her, it felt like they were talking about me, like overperforming good girls. I was like, how dare you? I think that's another thing you have to remember, is whatever the personality that's playing out in this way, that's going to act on you too.
Erin Baute [00:42:08] Right. Because we are talking about something so complicated. Our values, our beliefs are what we want from the world. What we believe is good or right or true or whatever is so tied into our identity, into those roles and into our personality and how we cope and find safety, and how we understand the world and manage the harm and trauma that gets caused all day, every day. And so we can't expect anything other than a visceral survival response when we are pushing on people's belief systems if we aren't creating safety within ourselves first. Somebody who has access to a sense of safety and so who can create that grounded homeostasis, who understands how to recover. Like that's what I think meditation is, is just recovery. Then I'm less likely to be triggered by the familiarity or similarity between me and somebody else.
Beth [00:43:18] And probably that's a risk for all of us that we either over identify with a candidate or under identify with candidates and start to treat them as less than human because we've created that distance between us.
Erin Baute [00:43:33] Yeah. Agreed. And why I think I was so drawn to your show all those years ago was because you were the first women I was here hearing modeling more, bigger expansion. Like, how do we hold all the nuance? And that wasn't getting modeled to me anywhere else. But I was hungry for that in myself, and I was looking for people who were modeling that out in the world. And I've said this before, that you all were my heart work. You were what helped me manage how I felt about myself in the world and gave me the language and the practice and the modeling to offer this not just politically but as a human. And it is been such a helpful place to practice self-awareness. And, unfortunately, that's what a political race will ask of us, is how self-aware are we? And that's going to show how this plays out.
Beth [00:44:39] What are some healthy attributes that we can bring to this process? Because there is light in each type too, right? So what can we be grabbing onto that's constructive?
Erin Baute [00:44:48] Yeah. I'm going to run through some ideas for each type, but I would say it would be good for all of us to practice all of these things because that's how we expand for ourselves. But I think the type one in a grounded sense, in a regulated sense, understands that we need to be looking for solutions and not sides. Right. Like I'm breaking up with the binary. I'm willing to bring all things to the table. And I'm really looking for the best possible outcome for who we're trying to serve. And so I think that's really a gift that a type one can bring. A type two I think can really hold all people. Like the idea of humanity and bring in the both and into a conversation because genuinely I care about what other people need. And I hold that really easily. And it's not just blowing smoke, it's a true connected response. And so I think that's really helpful to listen, to talk about what's good for everybody. I think of how really regulated three knows how to take purposeful action. I'm not just wearing the shirt. I'm going door to door to try to sign people up to vote. Like I'm doing the things, and we need their energy and their capacity out in the world because they've got a lot of it. I think the fours have the opportunity to see the possibility in things, the whole the beauty. Like we practice equanimity where I can soften the emotion in it and find the opportunity and the beauty without narrowing the field that can sort of hold it all. And I think that's really beautiful. And the type five I think in health becomes our deep stage. They sort of can hold the depth of knowledge that we need without being narrow or limited. I put in my notes to you like I think Steve Kornacki, that's just this political statistician genius. And he just holds the whole thing. It's not biased. Or maybe it is because he's human, but the attempt is not biased.
[00:47:10] I think sixes become really discerning and thoughtful. They asked great questions there. The what about and what ifs, but not from a place of distrust, a place of desperately wanting to hold the group. Sixes are really loyal and in service to those who can't serve themselves. It's like never leave a man behind kind of mentality with the six. And so you get all of those beautiful, light, thoughtful, curious parts. Regulated seven is going to bring the light in the darkness and not a shallow, superficial light, but a light who understands the darkness. We're in it. It's hard. And let's find a way out. And that makes me emotional, because it's the work that I try to do every day. I'm human. I don't ever get there, but that's how you know that the motivation connects. And I think type eight become real protectors. They're protectors of vulnerability, of softness, of grace, of nuance. And I'm willing to use my big energy in a soft way to protect that. And I think, like Martin Luther King, just this epic view of protection for the most delicate sort of sacred parts of humanity. And those are those who can't protect themselves because the systems don't allow for it. And then the nines become these skilled mediators. However, they aren't sacrificing their own voice. They're putting their own voice in the mix as just as valuable as everybody else on the table. And I think if we can all practice regulating ourselves before engagement, we get a lot closer to being this version than of the sort of rigid, fixated, protected self.
Sarah [00:49:14] Well, that's a beautiful vision. And thank you so much for your incredible depth of knowledge. Thank you so much for the kind words about the work we do here and what you found with our podcast. That's definitely what we hope all our types in our audience, because Lord knows we have all nine. That's what makes it such a strong and beautiful community. And this election season is, as always, an opportunity. And thank you for coming here and articulating some tools and motivations and an opportunity that that presents.
Erin Baute [00:49:42] It's my absolute honor and privilege. I'm grateful to be in community, not just with you two, your whole team is phenomenal and this whole community of listeners. I'm a better person for having found y'all.
Sarah [00:50:08] Maggie, we're here to talk about laundry.
Maggie [00:50:10] I'm so excited.
Sarah [00:50:11] Let's workshop your laundry. Maybe this will get us through all these processes. Are you happy with the laundry situation in your own house?
Maggie [00:50:17] I am not happy with the laundry situation in my home.
Sarah [00:50:19] Okay. What are the main sources of tension around laundry in your own home?
Maggie [00:50:25] So, first of all, I tend to let it all build up until I've run out of clothes, then I do the laundry and then it has to sit for a little while. There's, like, the sitting process.
Sarah [00:50:39] Then you have a mountain to deal with. You've created it.
Maggie [00:50:41] And then I have a mountain, and then I'm like, ooh, I would rather do literally anything than fold that, and it just sits in the basket. And then you get confused about what's clean and what's dirty and what I've worn and what I haven't worn.
Sarah [00:50:52] This is very bad, Maggie. I don't want this life for you.
Maggie [00:50:54] I don't want this. I will say that, like, at this moment, I have been stuck at my house because my kid had a stomach bug. And right now, at this moment, all of the laundry is put away. So I'm ready to begin anew right now.
Sarah [00:51:06] Okay. This is a good spot. Okay. First and most important question, do your children do their own laundry?
Maggie [00:51:11] They do not.
Sarah [00:51:12] Maggie. Why?
Maggie [00:51:14] Because it didn't occur to me that there was another way.
Sarah [00:51:17] This is my concern. I think this is the main issue, is it just doesn't even occur to anyone that their children can do their own laundry. You guys, my children have been doing their own laundry since I think Griffin was probably six/seven.
Maggie [00:51:36] So Felix does his own laundry too?
Sarah [00:51:38] Felix does his own laundry. Absolutely. Okay, here's how, though, it's not so simple as me just proclaiming have your kids do their own laundry. You got to be a lot less precious about the clothes first and foremost, okay? And I am not precious about their clothes. One, because they wear a lot hand me downs. And two, because it is more important to me and I think it is a better investment in both time and money in the long run that my children learn how to do their own laundry than I eke out a few more wares from their clothes. Do you see what I'm saying? This is a time money calculation.
Maggie [00:52:13] I will add as to affirm your instincts here, I was talking to Daniel just reflecting on some of the things that maybe we would do differently than our parents. And he was like, because his mom did his laundry for him until he was 18 years old and joined the United States Coast Guard and was in boot camp and then he suddenly had to do his own laundry, and he was like that didn't help. It was it was very overwhelming to not only have to become an adult but also have to learn how to do laundry.
Sarah [00:52:41] Yes. Okay.
Maggie [00:52:42] So I affirm that.
Sarah [00:52:43] Yes. And they can do it. Absolutely. Here's the two tools you need to have your children do their own laundry. And really, the laundry hamper I'm going to talk about is also a key tool to tackling your own laundry. So everyone in my family, except my husband, who has disregarded my advice and has his own struggle with his laundry, but that's his journey, not mine, because I don't do his laundry either. Okay, so everybody does their own laundry and everyone has a small mesh pop up hamper. Do you know what I'm talking about?
Erin Baute [00:53:13] Yes.
Sarah [00:53:13] Little.
Maggie [00:53:16] Right. Because that's their thing. If it's too big, then the basket and the laundry is not matching.
Sarah [00:53:22] Exactly. We want a small pop up hamper that holds about a big load of laundry, but one load of laundry. Okay. And then on top of the washing machine there are Tide cold water pods. Everybody just when their hamper is full, they go down to the laundry room, they put everything in the washing machine together, they pop in a Tide cold water pod, they start the laundry, then move on with their lives. Okay, now I work from home, so I do sometimes switch people's laundry over to the dryer, but if they're home, I say, hey, your laundry is done, go switch it over so there's a little of oversight, but not a lot. Do you have a.
Maggie [00:53:56] Do you have a front loading washer?
Sarah [00:53:58] I do, but I will not again. When it breaks, I'm going back to top loading.
Maggie [00:54:01] Okay, because that's a little problem for me with my younger daughter, I don't think she's tall enough to reach. Because they will put the laundry in the washer. And I don't have the Tide Pops, I feel like I could get Tide Pops.
Sarah [00:54:13] The Tide Pops are key.
Maggie [00:54:14] Because they struggle with the liquid is too heavy to pour it.
Sarah [00:54:19] Yes, exactly. So I have like a little glass jar right on top of my washing machine full of Tide Pops. They open it up, they put a Tide Pod and they move on.
Maggie [00:54:27] Because that would fix it.
Sarah [00:54:28] Yeah. So they can get it in. Even with a step stool, they can get it in the laundry. You might have to switch it over, but they get it in. Okay. So we've gotten the laundry to the washing machine. We for the most part have gotten the laundry to the dryer. The key here, getting it out of the dryer and into their rooms, because they also do that. I do not fold and put their laundry up. That's a part of doing the laundry. It's not washing the laundry, it's doing the laundry. Okay, so keeping those loads small and then there is almost no folding. The only thing I fold, even among my own laundry, is my t shirts. I have big deep drawers in both my dressers and my children's dressers. Pajamas in a drawer, underwear in a drawer. No one needs to fold pajamas. Why would we do that? Are we worried about them being wrinkled? I love Marie Kondo, but that's unnecessary, especially for children. They don't fold their own t shirts. They're boys. They would be wrinkled, that's on them. And there's a drawer for t-shirts and shirts and there's a big draw for pants. Now, obviously, I hang up a lot of my laundry, but the only thing I fold, even among my laundry, I do not fold my underwear. I do not fold my pajamas. I fold t-shirts, and they're kind of like books in the drawer. But that's it. That's all I fold. Everything just gets tossed in. So I timed myself the other day I think we might be having this conversation, and it takes me five minutes or less to pull everything out of the dryer, take it into my room. And everything's in the same like central location, so I'm not going to a bunch of different places. It's like one dresser holds everything inside my closet. One dresser in their room holds everything. Do you see what I'm saying? We're trying to remove tension.
Maggie [00:56:05] Yeah. That's fine. Because yesterday when I was like stuck at home, I went through my daughter's drawers and it was like-- I did help her. I helped her because it was like all of her shirts, shorts, pants were all together in the drawers.
Sarah [00:56:21] Move on. No, move on. Who cares? No. Can she dress herself?
Maggie [00:56:24] She can.
Sarah [00:56:26] Then that's all that matters.
Maggie [00:56:27] Yeah. I mean, she wears clothes every day that are clean.
Sarah [00:56:29] Exactly. If the clothes are in the drawer, and then they're on her body. And now the part of the circle I've not fully closed with my own children is getting the dirty clothes in the hamper. Still struggle with that with the 12-year-old and the nine-year-old. But the 14-year-old has figured it out. And, look, they don't have any clothes, that's on them. That's on them.
Maggie [00:56:46] Because they didn't do their laundry.
Sarah [00:56:47] They didn't do their laundry. They need to do their laundry if they want to wear clean clothes. This is a very important part of the process.
Maggie [00:56:56] Since we're solving their problems here, thank you everybody, is it their job to figure out when the clothes don't fit anymore and to get them out of their drawers?
Sarah [00:57:05] No. Often what happens is especially my two youngest sons. Now the other two, here's what happens. It doesn't fit, they stop wearing it. And so it just sort of sits in the drawer. And then you can kind of go in there every once in a while and be like, oh, I haven't seen this on you in months. Let's take it out. Felix if he comes down in pants that are too short, I just say hand those to me. I take them off him that second, I put them in the donation bin, and then he goes up in stairs and gets another pair of pants.
Maggie [00:57:29] That's good. That seems good.
Sarah [00:57:31] Because I always have a donation bin in my garage or my laundry room to throw things in.
Maggie [00:57:36] That's what we kind of ended up with yesterday, is that all of the clothes that Naomi likes wearing were just in the laundry baskets. And so basically everything in her drawer was too small and she didn't like it. So that was kind of like an easy clean up. We made a clean restart from this day on.
Sarah [00:57:52] Yeah. When they say I don't have anything to wear and you go up and their drawers are full, just pull it out cause they're not going wear it. Don't fight it unless you want to get them dressed every day, which I do not want to do. Now, another key piece of this is socks and underwear. So I like to do laundry about once a week maybe. I want to do that one small load about once a week. That's all that I want to spend of my one wild and precious life on laundry. Okay, so if you love laundry and you want to fold and a drawer brings you joy, go forth and prosper. That's not for me, okay? And so you got to figure out if you have enough underwear to make it as long as you want to go without doing laundry. Same for your children. Do they have enough underwear to make it a week? And with the kids, that's not seven days, guys. That's like 12 pairs of underwear. So the other key piece is sock. Now, this is a new development that has improved my life dramatically. Over Christmas, I said I'm declaring sock bankruptcy. We're done here. We're out. Every sock is leaving this house. Now I donated them. If they had a pair, I donated them. And I threw away all this pairs. I was like, I don't want you in my life anymore. You're not welcome here. Do you understand? And so I bought Griffin white socks, like 15 pairs. I bought Amos and Felix (because their feet are close enough in size they can wear the same size socks) black socks. And I bought, like, 30 pairs, and they all go together, so it doesn't matter.
Maggie [00:59:25] Because it's so annoying. Like, girl socks are like it's pink, purple all almost the same. Oh my gosh, it's like a sock cartel.
Sarah [00:59:33] Yes I just wiped it clean. I said we're going fresh here. We're starting over. And it is so much better. It also helps that because inevitably when they do their laundry, sometimes I'm like, where are the socks? Because the socks live in a basket by the shoes, by our door. That's where all the socks are, okay? And so they would get lost in the drawers. Now it doesn't really matter because every once in a while I can go in there and make sure I got all the socks. They match, who cares? But now that they all match their, I am finding they are more likely to pair the socks and do it correctly. Once they don't have to think about which sock goes where, they just go socks, sock, sock, I think I've really cracked the code.
Maggie [01:00:10] And you just keep them by the shoes, by the door.
Sarah [01:00:13] Yeah, I keep a big basket of socks, by the shoes, by the door.
Maggie [01:00:16] And then they don't have to go back to their rooms when they've like...
Sarah [01:00:20] You don't want to go back in the morning. We only go forward in the mornings. If someone is going back upstairs to their room, we have failed and we need to reevaluate the process.
Maggie [01:00:31] Okay. I just have one last question about laundry. So for your kids to just wash the clothes, do you divide your clothes by darks and lights?
Sarah [01:00:40] I did it for a long time, about probably 2 or 3 years ago. I thought, you know what, I'm investing all these white short sleeved shirts-- you guys, I reorganized my closet. I can't decide if I will actually share a picture with all of you because it's embarrassing. Thirty percent of my closet is white blouses. I have to stop. I have a problem. I will admit to the problem on air. I'm not sure I'm ready to show the picture. And so I'm like, if I'm investing all these white shirts, I need to wash them in a way that will keep them bright and white. Okay, so I do have another small pop up hamper for my whites that I wash on warm with Oxiclean, but that's probably like every two week thing. I probably only do that about every two weeks.
Maggie [01:01:25] Well, I mean, if you're not doing it very often, it makes sense to me that you would have so many.
Sarah [01:01:29] I'm the only one who's sorting laundry. I'm the only one who has two pop-up hampers because I can be trusted. No one else can be trusted, Maggie. And they don't care. My children don't care if their whites are bright. Are you kidding me?
Maggie [01:01:41] They don't care. I will say one thing, my best thing that I have is a laundry sorter. So it's like a hamper. It's like a pop up hamper that just hangs in a cart thing that I could roll to my laundry room.
Sarah [01:01:52] Yes. I mean, my bedroom is on the same floor as my laundry room, I could do that. But they're a little big. They're a little big, I find.
Maggie [01:02:00] That's true.
Sarah [01:02:01] I don't like how big and clunky they are.
Maggie [01:02:05] Yeah, that's true. I think you've solved it.
Sarah [01:02:05] I don't think about it. I don't have mountains of laundry haunting me. I enjoy laundry because I do a very little of it every once in a while I'll do a delicate load or whatever, but I have like the margin to do those special laundry tasks because I spend so little mental energy on the weekly laundry.
Maggie [01:02:27] Who does the towels?
Sarah [01:02:29] So the boys towels go in their laundry. I don't wash towels every time I use them. I think that's crazy. But they wash their own towels. Nicholas and I have white towels that I put in the white load. Whenever I do a white load, I get to do the towels. I think I fixed it, guys. But the key is the very first question; are your kids doing their own laundry? And I'm sure there are circumstances among all of you that require you do their kids laundry. I believe you. I sincerely believe you. But I think they're rare. I'm just going to be honest with you. I did my own laundry growing up. My mom was like, I'm not doing your laundry.
Maggie [01:03:12] I did my own laundry.
Sarah [01:03:14] Yeah. She's like, you want to change clothes five times a day? Cool. You're going to do your own laundry?
Maggie [01:03:18] Yeah. I mean, because I'm one of four kids, so she's like, if you want clean clothes, friends, you're just going to have to do it yourself.
Sarah [01:03:26] Yes. It's too much. It's too much friends, it's too much work. And I see people with half of their couches covered with laundry. And I'm like, what are you doing? Why are you doing that to yourself? Love yourself more. Move to the small pop up hamper and get it out of the way. Like just easy-peasy, done and out the door. We don't want to spend a lot of time on this. Again, unless this is your joyful pursuit and you're the laundress, and it just brings you enormous joy. Now, I think what I want to do next, I heard somebody say at one of my church parties that she washes her sheets in this, like, special-- it wasn't laundress. It was like another brand of really nice smelling laundry detergent. And I was like, I'm interested. I'm interested in bougieing up that aspect of my laundry. I could get there with you. I'll think about it.
Maggie [01:04:19] I can see you thinking about it. That's why I haven't used the Tide Pops in forever. But they do make for free and clear Tide Pops. Now, why isn't Tide sponsoring this episode anyway?
Sarah [01:04:29] Yeah. Seriously.
Maggie [01:04:30] Anyway, it's fine. But my kids have such sensitive skin that they have to use-- because the perfumes and stuff. Like, if you've ever had a kid go into a huge rash from laundry soap. I think maybe that's why I kept doing their laundry is because I was paranoid about the soap.
Sarah [01:04:48] Makes sense.
Maggie [01:04:50] We're not there anymore. We can move on.
Sarah [01:04:52] You're not there anymore. That's another thing. I think people just get it-- I think this happens with lots of things. I think it happens with laundry. I think it happens with cooking. Not that I have a lot of expertise in that. Let me not pretend. But I think a lot of times around our houses, we just get stuck in a phase. Like a phase that was traumatic maybe and you're like, I don't want to mess with it because I finally feel like I'm handling it. And it's just always important, especially with kids, because they're constantly growing and changing to think like, wait, does this still work?
Maggie [01:05:18] That's true.
[01:05:19] I wish I'd think through this in a different way. I'm going to check in on you and Imma make sure your kids are doing their laundry. I'm your accountability.
Maggie [01:05:22] Oh, yeah, I want to know. I'll make a video of them during lunch and post it on the internet and be like.
Sarah [01:05:31] Oh yeah, I'm so excited. I'm so excited for that. All right. Well, thank you for joining us. Don't forget, if you are listening with the Apple Podcast app, please go to those settings for our show and set the download option to automatically download the last five episodes. It makes a huge difference for us and we really appreciate it. We look forward to all of you joining us on our premium channels. And until next week, keep it nuanced, y'all.
[01:05:49] Music Interlude
Sarah: Pantsuit Politics is produced by Studio D Podcast Production.
Beth: Alise Napp is our managing director. Maggie Penton is our director of Community Engagement.
Sarah: Xander Singh is the composer of our theme music with inspiration from original work by Dante Lima.
Beth: Our show is listener-supported. Special thanks to our executive producers.
Executive Producers: Martha Bronitsky. Ali Edwards. Janice Elliott. Sarah Greenup. Julie Haller. Tiffany Hasler. Emily Holladay. Katie Johnson. Katina Zuganelis Kasling. Barry Kaufman. Katherine Vollmer. Laurie LaDow. Lily McClure. Linda Daniel. The Pentons. Tracey Puthoff. Sarah Ralph. Jeremy Sequoia. Katie Stigers. Karin True. Onica Ulveling. Nick and Alysa Villeli. Amy Whited. Emily Helen Olson. Lee Chaix McDonough. Morgan McHugh. Jen Ross. Sabrina Drago. Becca Dorval. Christina Quartararo. Shannon Frawley. Jessica Whitehead. Samantha Chalmers. Crystal Kemp. The Lebo Family. The Adair Family.
Sarah: Jeff Davis. Melinda Johnston. Michelle Wood. Nichole Berklas. Paula Bremer and Tim Miller.