Governor Wes Moore on Winning Over Skeptics

TOPICS DISCUSSED

  • Longshoremen’s Strike

  • Our Conversation with Governor Wes Moore

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EPISODE RESOURCES

We are thrilled to announce a joint live show this November with one of our favorites, Vanessa Zoltan of Harry Potter and the Sacred Text! Join us in Boston vis live stream on November 7 - for a fun night among friends.

THE LONGSHOREMAN’S STRIKE

GOVERNOR WES MOORE

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TRANSCRIPT

Sarah [00:00:07] This is Sarah Stewart Holland.  

Beth [00:00:09] This is Beth Silvers.  

Sarah [00:00:10] You're listening to Pantsuit Politics.  

Beth [00:00:12] Where we take a different approach to the news.  

[00:00:14] Music Interlude.  

Sarah [00:00:29] Thanks so much for joining us. We're going to talk about ports today. First, we're going to talk about the longshoremen strike along the East Coast in Gulf ports and what that means for the country. Then we're going to share our conversation with Maryland Governor Wes Moore, where we talk about the Port of Baltimore and the Francis Scott Key Bridge and much, much more. And, guys, we convinced Governor Moore to stay with us for Outside of Politics. And when I tell you the story he told us about his wife and their engagement and their wedding, it's going to heal your heart. I would love to maintain some type of professional neutrality about this man, but he is too smart and he is too charming and it is futile. I can't wait for you to listen.  

Beth [00:01:16] I felt like we could have said, Governor, let's rank fast food restaurants in order together and it would have been fun. I think we could have said, Governor, why do you think we're here? What is the human experience? What do you think happens to our souls when we die? I think that would have been enlightening. He's just a good hang; governor Moore is.  

Sarah [00:01:33] He's a good hang. I just really like him so much. Marylanders. Greedy. You're greedy. That's what you are.  

Beth [00:01:41] So before we get to that very delightful conversation, we do want to remind you of another delight coming to the East Coast. We'll be in Boston on Thursday, November 7th with the excellent hang Vanessa Zoltan of Harry Potter and the Sacred Texts is going to be a fun night of laughter and community and a way for us to process the election together, whatever it holds for us. If you can't get to Boston, you can still join us. We have a livestream option available that we're very excited about. Tickets are on sale now. If you're a premium member, we sent out a code for you earlier this week to get $5 off your ticket as a big thank you from us. We would love to see all of you there in person or virtually on Thursday, November 7th.  

Sarah [00:02:25] Up next, we're going to talk about the longshoremen strike. The International Longshoremen's Association Union is on strike in all eastern ports and Gulf ports. The president of the union, Harold Daggett, said nothing's going to move without us. Nothing's going to move with us. I think this is the first strike since like 1977. It's what we're facing here with the longshoremen.  

Beth [00:03:03] I've really worked on my heart about unions in the course of our time making this podcast, and I've become a lot more open to unions and the power of labor and the need for labor to organize, to serve as a check against corporate greed. I'm struggling a little bit with this one, even as I very much appreciate these folks and the difficult, sometimes impossible work they were asked to do, especially during the pandemic. So my heart is both open and I hear things like nothing's going to move without us in a tone that comes across from Harold Daggett, and I struggle.  

Sarah [00:03:38] We see and respect your journey. I think we all recognize your journey here. They're asking for quite a race. They are seeking raises that add up to about 61.5% over a six year contract. That's down from the 77% they were originally asking for. I think the employers are offering 50%. So, look, I think this happens a lot with union negotiations. I think Americans see those numbers and they're like, I don't get a 50% raise over six years. And it's a struggle. As a pro union person, I would say yes, that's why I [inaudible] union, because collective bargaining is very impactful. But I don't think you're alone particularly in your struggle with Mr. Daggett. It's turned on them real fast. There's all these pictures of him with Trump. There's this sense that (whether true or not) he is doing this to help Trump. There is also a real walk back from previous negotiations and contracts where there was allowed to be some semi automation. And now they want to shut down any automation in the future to protect their workers.  

Beth [00:05:01] That is a struggle for me because I worry that it says, hey, this is a pretty difficult, dangerous job. Let's keep it that way.  

Sarah [00:05:10] Yeah. And I think what I'm struggling with around the national conversation is instead of really grappling with these difficulties like is this what we want union negotiations to look and feel like, what do we think the role of automation should play here, Americans are just running out to get toilet paper, which doesn't even make sense. My friend who lives in Orange County said they couldn't get bananas because this is just on the East Coast. What is happening? Why is the takeaway from this real situation that is, for better or for worse, getting at some really difficult issues inside labor, inside automation, inside the future of our economy? The takeaway for everyone is better go running and get toilet paper and bananas. I'm struggling.  

Beth [00:06:06] I was in a totally unrelated to the longshoremen strike meeting yesterday, and a wise woman in the meeting said, "I just feel like we're still recovering from Covid." And she was right.  

Sarah [00:06:19] She's right and I hate it.  

Beth [00:06:24] Yeah. But it broke our brains in a lot of ways. Look, to the sympathetic side of my brain illustrates the point. These are critical workers. What they do is the lifeblood of our economy. It is so important that they be well compensated, that they be well trained. But what I really struggle with here, the pay raise will end up where it ends up. I struggle with this push against technology if technology could make this more resilient, safer, easier. Not that I want people's jobs to be displaced by technology. Of course, I don't. But I want those to be good jobs. And there's a lot of technology in this field in particular that could make these jobs better jobs.  

Sarah [00:07:09] Well, I think the struggle is you add in automation and perhaps you increased resilience in some areas, but you increase fragility in others.  

Beth [00:07:22] Sure. Yeah.  

Sarah [00:07:23] I was so, so interested in the write up from the New York Times about the CrowdStrike shutdown and how in some ways we do not have enough diversity in the technology that we use, so it takes so little to shut it down. And so I think that that is part of the issue. And I think probably the workers themselves, many of them have been around long enough to know, yeah, maybe it solves one problem and it creates another one. Which I think is true most of the time for technology.  

Beth [00:08:00] And all solutions and all progress. That's always true.  

Sarah [00:08:03] Absolutely. I get that, but I still think this idea of instead of putting some guardrails around it, which they had in previous contracts to just shut it down completely, is probably not the most realistic strategy. A couple day shutdown is one thing. Most experts say if we stretch into two to three weeks, it will have a huge, exponentially worse impact on consumers and the economy. I do not anticipate president Biden letting that stretch into a couple of weeks. I think there's enormous pressure from lots of different sides to come to the table and get this done, not just on him, but on the parties themselves. I mean, he can use the Taft-Hartley Act to force an end to the shutdown and put the parties at the table together. George W Bush did that in 2002. So we'll see.  

Beth [00:08:59] I'm interested in, among the longshoremen, the workers in this area, if there are some demographic differences in how people feel about these demands. I'm interested in the average age of dockworkers and whether that's a feel that we're struggling with recruitment for. There's a lot that I don't know here that seems relevant to me, especially with these automation issues. I know just a second ago we were like the West Coast doesn't need to worry about this. I think that's a yet, because I do think if we get into that two or three week period you see in the supply chain that it's a body and something aggravated at one part of the body affects everything else.  

[00:09:40] For this to happen at the same time as the devastation from Helene, I was reading this morning about Typhoon Krathon in Taiwan and how just two days of shutdown of the import-export system for Taiwan's, very high tech economy is going to have a pretty devastating effect there. I do think if this gets away from us it will be really bad. And that's not even talking about how really bad it is to have something like this happen in the month before a presidential election. But just really bad in terms of what goods and services people have access to, at what prices and on what timeline. So I hope that they can get this resolved reasonably in a short amount of time.  

Sarah [00:10:26] I threw around the Taft-Hartley Act, so let me just say that it was passed in 1947, and it was intended to really balance the power between unions and companies. And it gives the federal government the power to shut down a strike if it's endangering public safety or if they feel like it could have outsized impact. I think the important thing to remember what I would say to Mr. Daggett and his son, who is also apparently leadership inside the union--  

Beth [00:11:00] Just some things here.  

Sarah [00:11:01] Yeah, I think I would remind him that if the impact grows in a way I think you are accurately describing in the month before the election, there will absolutely be political impact. And while America has seen a dramatic shift in its perception of unions, history says that it is the union that takes the brunt of any negative public outcome. It is the union that is perceived as at fault often. Fairly or unfairly, usually in these big moments, the long tail of public perception is not friendly to the union and unions in general. It's not really just about the longshoremen. It's about how people perceive labor. So I would hate to see this undo some of the progress we've made around America's perceptions of labor, including your own journey, as you described at the beginning of this conversation. Now one of the biggest and most important ports in the United States affected by this shutdown, just as it starts to get back from the Francis Scott Key Bridge collapse, is the Port of Baltimore in the great state of Maryland led by Governor Westmore. Who came and talked to us and we cannot wait for you to hear that conversation. Up next.  

[00:12:35] Music Interlude.  

Beth [00:12:45] We are thrilled to be here with the governor of Maryland, Wes Moore. Governor, thank you for joining us here at Pantsuit Politics.  

Gov. Wes Moore [00:12:52] I am so excited about this. This is great. Thank you. So good to be with you.  

Beth [00:12:55] Well, I want to start out with what's a little bit of a bummer. I promise it will get more fun as we go along. But the bummer is we've been looking at this social pressure index where a company has asked Americans, okay, but how do you really feel? We know what you're saying to pollsters, but in private, what are your actual thoughts? And they learned that about 4% of Americans feel any sense of trust in their government at all. And as someone who's served in the military, who has lots of private sector and public sector experience, and as a sitting governor, I would just love to hear what you've learned about people's confidence in government, how you think we got here and what we can do about this.  

Gov. Wes Moore [00:13:35] I think part of it is we have to acknowledge the fact that people's skepticism is actually baked in something, That there's a reason for it. And it's not just because and it's not even like a recent thing. We're watching how this is compounded in many cases, not just over years, but in families and some families for generations. And what we're now seeing is that it's overflowing. And so I think we have to be honest about that skepticism that its origins have been from the fact that there have been many elements of government or many elements of society that have not worked for everybody. Where every family has not been. Where I know I look at my life and the truth is that I serve as almost the exception when I think about my background. That I am here as the 63rd governor of the state of Maryland, but I'm also here as someone who watched my father die when I was three because he didn't get the health care he needed.  

[00:14:35] I'm also here as someone who had handcuffs on my wrist by the time I was 11 years old, because I grew up in a community that was overpoliced and we knew it. I'm a person who knows that my mother did not get her first job that gave her benefits until I was 14 years old. And this is a woman who went on to earning a master's degree. So any conversations about inequitable pay between men and women or equal opportunities of the racial wealth gap, I tell people I don't need a white paper to explain that because I grew up in it. And so I think that the skepticism that a lot of people feel about our institutions is founded in something. I think what we need to be able to do and what we're really trying to do here in the state of Maryland is show that government can work, that we can actually get big things done, that we can collaborate and we can work with multiple elements of society in order to get people not just believing, but justifying their hopefulness for what the future can bring. In order to combat the feelings that government doesn't work, you need to present the alternative, which is government working. And I think that's why we've been so focused on getting that right.  

Sarah [00:15:41] Well, and you had an excellent opportunity with the Francis Scott Key Bridge, a global crisis, huge impact for your state. So as you stepped into that, I know you had massive amounts of logistics to deal with, but how were you also holding that almost like psychological, dare I say, spiritual tension between cynicism and skepticism with regards to the government? Because I know you had to feel the pressure of all that in something that was also just a massive logistical and pragmatic challenge.  

Gov. Wes Moore [00:16:18] I'll never forget that first morning when my phone rang at 2:02 in the morning and my chief of staff who let me know that a ship those of the size of three football fields had just slammed into the Key Bridge and it collapsed instantaneously. And now the port of Baltimore is closed. This is a port that is really America's port. Two thirds of the country served by the Port of Baltimore. It's the largest port in the country for new cars, for heavy trucks, for agricultural equipment, for spices and sugars. It represents around 13 percent of our state's economy. And I knew that we were now hours away from our state waking up and realizing where thousands of people no longer had a job. And we had six workers who were working fixing potholes that night who we tragically lost.  

[00:17:10] I think that a lot of how I tried to process that moment and how to lead in that moment, a lot of actually came from the military. I served with the 82nd Airborne Division. I led paratroopers in combat. And we knew that the only thing to expect is the unexpected. That your Tuesday would look nothing like your Monday and your Wednesday would look nothing like your Tuesday and kind of get used to it because that's the up tempo. But that there are certain systems you had to have in place. And that's exactly how I thought about, how to lead inside that moment as you've got to put those systems in place and that collaboration and coordination. But I think the other big thing, and you touched on it, was everything had to start with humanity.  

[00:17:49] It's like every single mission that we had to execute, whether it was the divers who were in the water-- first, divers were in the water within an hour of that collapse looking to save lives and looking to remove debris and looking to find later on, find the remains of those who we lost, but who was also with a clear understanding that they were doing very dangerous work. You had divers who were 20 and 30 and 40 and 50ft below in the water and with a lot of concrete and steel inside the water, sharp objects. If something would have punctured any of their equipment, you now just lost a diver who was looking to save lives. And so when we knew that all the operations were taking place, but the promise that we made to these families who loved these six individuals and these six families, who lost either whether it was a son or a brother or a cousin or a husband, when we said we will stop at nothing to bring your family member back so you could get the closure and the comfort that you needed, we started every single day with that as the first question.  

[00:18:59] Where are we on the recovery operations of the bodies? Where are we on making sure that everyone is safe in conducting these operations? And then everything else flows from there. And so I think in those kinds of situations, the leaders who I have always most admired are the ones when things are getting most loud, for them it gets quiet. When things are going really fast for them, things tend to slow down. And I think we had to stay focused on not just putting the systems in place, but stay focused on the humanity. Because if you never forgot the humanity, then you don't make mistakes in the work that you're doing. And I'm really proud because I think our state collectively, the state of Maryland, put on a case study on how to respond in these tragic moments.  

Beth [00:19:43] It's even more impressive because in the military you have that culture. Everyone understands that we operationalize, we focus. This is what the mission is. Government is so much messier than that. How are you finding leading through the messiness of many, many viewpoints, many constituents, many people kind of protecting their power within those constituencies?  

Gov. Wes Moore [00:20:06] It's funny because one thing I think I realized about government is when people say, well, government doesn't work or government doesn't see me, I actually don't think it's government. I think it's the partisan element of government that intercedes and then actually causes this level of brokenness and this pain that people then feel. Where it's like if a political party wins, then somehow the other political party needs to sit on the sidelines until the next election and everything becomes so hyper partisan in the way that it's viewed. But when we think about the organization of government, these are just public servants. These are people who have chosen to serve and are just simply looking for a level of leadership, direction and collaboration in order to actually make the mission work. So I think the thing that we've done in the state of Maryland is we've just been very intentional about taking a basic guideline. Something that I know I learned in the military was one question I never once asked my soldiers is what's your political party? It really never came up when I was leading soldiers.  

[00:21:08] And so it doesn't come up in the way that we are running our government where we've introduced 26 pieces of legislation since I've been the governor. Not only have we gone 26 for 26, we've gone 26 for 26 bipartisan where both Democrat and Republican support on every single bill that we have introduced. That's not happening anywhere in the country. And I think that's why you're watching state government actually work in Maryland. I'm not focused on my next election. And I'm asking all of my partners not to focus on the next election. I'm asking them to focus on the next day and the next thing that we all collectively have to do to make sure that the people that we're serving in our state are getting the kind of government that they deserve.  

Sarah [00:21:51] I think that emphasis on the collective to me is key because it's not like when you talk to people who served in the military there's like naivete. There's a healthy skepticism. They've earned it. They're pragmatic. They're skeptical. But I do think the way you're naming that collective, that mission driven, that we're are a part of a group, that there are processes, is where it gets a little broken down. Because once you get to partisanship, it's very individualized. It's very about me. And so we can't get everybody in the military. I would love some sort of national service that had a spectrum of activities available to people. But until we get there, I know you've worked with an interfaith coalition, how are you thinking about how to get people out of that individual mindset with the government and back into that the next day, our mission, the processes we're working, we're in this together, this isn't just about partisan politics.  

Gov. Wes Moore [00:22:45] I remember on the campaign trail we started talking about this idea and I said, "I want Maryland to be the first state in this country that has a service here option for all of our high school graduates." And I remember at our first rallies that I'd say that it'd be like crickets. It's like, I don't even know what that means and it looks like it seems very pie in the sky. And I was explaining why it was so important that we do it. And then finally you start to see people, okay, now we're listening. Now we're paying attention. And then when we ended up winning, we ended up winning with more individual votes than anyone had ever run for governor in the history of the state of Maryland. But the reason I say this is because we walked in with a mandate all right, this is what we're going to do. And everyone [inaudible] said wait, we in our first legislative session, one of the first bills that I introduced and I personally testified on behalf of and I proudly sign was something called the Serve Act, which made Maryland the first state in the country that now has a service year option for all of our high school graduates where they can have a year of paid service to the state of Maryland and they can choose how they want to do it.  

[00:23:44] They can serve in the environment. They can serve returning citizens. They can help veterans. hey can help animals. It's totally their choice. But we did it for all important reasons. One is we're big believers in experiential learning. We're big believers in earned financial cushions, and you have to make sure it's paid so it can be democratized. We're big believers in workforce training and workforce development and getting people into the workforce. And the fourth reason, going back to your point, is I'm a big believer that in this time of this political divisiveness and political vitriol, that service will save us, that those who serve together will stay together. And I know, to your point, I saw when I ran for office.  

[00:24:25] I have people who I served with in Afghanistan who came and campaigned for me. Many of them were not Marylanders. Many of them were not Democrats, but they literally were coming and knocking on door to door to door and just simply saying, "I want to tell you about the guy that I served with." And so service is so sticky. That if we can be a state that gets to know each other again, I believe we're going to be a state that's going to be better off. And I believe it's not just Maryland. We're seeing other states are now incorporating it into their budgets, because I think Maryland's going to lead the charge on how the nation should think about giving people an opportunity to grow together. If you do that, you're going to create bonds that will be lifelong bonds.  

Sarah [00:25:04] Service is sticky. Put it on a T-shirt. I love that.  

Gov. Wes Moore [00:25:07] That's it. Service will save us.  

Beth [00:25:09] That service opportunity, I think, also reflects how much you've thought about young people and the transition to adulthood and in your time before running for governor. As we approach this election season, where you have a lot of young people who are just not sure how they feel, what are you thinking about people in that stage of life and how they should view the stakes in November?  

Gov. Wes Moore [00:25:33] Well, first I would tell them I get it because it's true. It seems like oftentimes in a lot of these conversations that are happening, it's almost like people are speaking. They're making up policies for young people and not with young people. And so the policies are almost like the ones that are being dictated down without having their input. I remember when a few months back where-- we now have a recreational cannabis market in the state of Maryland. And so over the past really year and a half, we've taken real pride in the fact that Maryland we've helped to lead that. Maryland has had what many people believe to be the most equitable and successful recreational cannabis rollout that we've had in our nation. But there was something that always got us. Was that we now have a new billion dollar industry in the state of Maryland. But I have people who couldn't get barbers licenses because they had a minor cannabis conviction. I helped people who could not get a student loan. I helped people who could not get a government contract. And so you're having people that repeatedly were punished for something that's not even legal anymore in our state.  

[00:26:39] I signed what is now the largest mass pardon for misdemeanor cannabis convictions in the history of this country. 175,000 convictions were pardoned in the stroke of a pen. But the reason I bring that up is this; do you know who some of the people who were the greatest drivers behind that and making sure we got the policy right? It was young people. It wasn't just that we were making policies that they felt would have a disproportionate impact on young people because they were receiving the brunt of the weight that cannabis in this war of cannabis has been used as a cudgel in our society. They were there to also talk about what about paraphernalia and all these other things? And we're like, that's a great point. But again, they introduced that idea, the people who were impacted. And so my mother used to tell me something that I thought was really good where she said that people need to think that you care before they care what you think.  

[00:27:39] And I think we actually need to show young people that the reason that we're trying to engage is not because we need their vote. We don't engage them every four years. We engage them throughout the process of everything that we do. And so when they're asking questions about, well, can I trust them or does this administration see me or whatever like that, you ask young people, there's no question whether or not we see them because they power us. They're the ones who are the fuel for everything we're doing. And I think that's the approach that we've got to be able to take when the question is, when people say, well, how do we engage young people? I think the question we have to ask back is, well, how have you engaged young people? If you've engaged them, you're not worried about engaging them in a future tense because you've already got them.  

Sarah [00:28:25] Yeah, that's so true. Look, it's not just young people, I think, that have some stress around this election. It's so close. Every day I get another text message that's like "How is this so close?" Cry face emoji, melty face emoji, cry face emoji. Why is this so close? Why are we all on a knife's edge with the presidential in control of the House and even your Senate race in Maryland? Can you give us a pep talk or a word or literally anything? Anything at all, please?  

Gov. Wes Moore [00:28:55] Well, I think part of the reason that it is so close is we have a candidate. And first of all, we used to have a very polarized society right now. And I think you have a candidate who is a former president, who has universal name recognition, but also has historic negatives. We've never seen a person running for president with the negatives that he has. But also we know that the positives are pretty hard, like they are pretty dug in that they think that he is the right answer. The thing I would just tell people is this, is that regardless of the place that you represent, where you call home, what your family lineage is, what your background is, what your religion is, whatever it is, if people really look into the details of what's being offered, I cannot imagine how someone walks away in saying that I think that Donald Trump sees me. Unless, again, you're talking about the 1 percent who benefited mightily. But if you do not fall into that category, I just think it's a very difficult argument to say that the policies that I've heard coming from the former president are ones that see me in my family or I feel like I'm being thought about or prioritized in that.  

[00:30:09] I know and even when we talk about African-American voters, I'm here, I'm the only African-American governor in the country. I'm only the third African-American ever elected as governor in the history of the United States. And people say, "So what does that mean about how do you get African-Americans on board? Why are you seeing more who are who are going to Donald Trump?" One thing I'll say is I'm not sure how many more are going to Donald Trump per se. I think you do have people that are skeptical and are really wondering, do we have a political system that really does see us, that is rooting for our success? Or do we have a political system where our success is not because of but it's in spite of a larger system that you didn't have to deal with every day? The thing I would just argue to people when it comes particular for Donald Trump, is Donald Trump is not offering a single solution to what you are--  

Sarah [00:31:01] Unless you're waking up at 3 a.m. worrying about tariffs. I don't really know what you see. I don't think about tariffs when I wake up at 3 a.m. personally.  

Gov. Wes Moore [00:31:09] That's right. And, frankly, I don't know a single legitimate economist who says that putting 20 percent tariffs on anything is going to be better for the American people, actually it's going to make things wildly more expensive.  

Sarah [00:31:23] [Inaudible] what would happen at America's port then?  

Gov. Wes Moore [00:31:25] Exactly.  

Beth [00:31:26] But people do wake up at 3 a.m. believing that someone has screwed them over. And that's what I think resonates about that tariff message.  

Gov. Wes Moore [00:31:34] That's right. That's exactly right. And the thing would you make that argument to people is a lot of that, there is a lot of truth to that. Because you could make an argument all day long saying like, listen-- and these are all true arguments. To say that the United States has actually broken the back of inflation, its inflationary curve, faster than any other developed country. That is a fact. The fact that the United States now has-- we're looking at an economy that year on year has now grown upwards of 20 percent. The last time we've seen this level of economic growth within the stock market it was 1997. That is a fact. The fact we're watching new industries coming on board and you're watching unemployment rates hitting at historic lows. The fact that we're at a 20 percent low when it comes to the racial wealth gap, these are facts. But for people who are growing up and feeling like, yeah, that all might be true, but I'm not seeing it.  

[00:32:23] You've got to be able to combat the fact that it's not just data, it's vibes. Do they feel like despite all the momentum and all the good numbers, are they being seen? The thing now I would just say to people who are looking and saying like, well, maybe Donald Trump is the person that can bring the relief, I would just simply say Donald Trump is a vessel for the skepticism, but he is not a vehicle for the solutions. He's not someone who's offering a single solution that is intended on making your life better. He is a vessel for the pain. He'll speak to that. He's a master at that. But what he's not a master of is actually coming up with solutions to be able to address where that pain is coming from.  

Beth [00:33:08] And solutions live in the details, which is not where I think Donald Trump likes to spend his time. I want to ask you about a detail that is really significant to me. I watch public opinion on criminal justice reform initiatives ebb and flow. And I know it's not like the hot topic right now. So I was even more encouraged to see your recent appointment of someone to look at the incarceration system and especially juvenile justice and say, is this fair? Is it just? Are we doing what we say we're doing? Is it transparent, accountable? So will you talk a little bit about that program?  

Gov. Wes Moore [00:33:44] Absolutely. And it's really interesting because I didn't come from a political background, so I know everybody came on board they were trying to box me in like, okay, where is he on these issues? And is he these categories? Is he that category? And the way I approached it was I'm like, listen, I'm just bringing my perspective. I'm bringing my human experiences and I'm bringing data into the fight. And I said we had to address the issue of public safety because when we were first inaugurated, the people in our communities it wasn't just that they didn't feel safe, we had gone eight straight years under the old government of watching the homicide rate in the state of Maryland nearly double. Where in Baltimore City, our state's largest city, went eight straight years of 300 plus homicides in a city the size of Baltimore. And so people wasn't just that they didn't feel safe, they were not. And so we said we are going to make this our top priority to increase measurements of public safety.  

[00:34:41] And so we invest in things like putting-- we made historic investments in local law enforcement. We made historic investments in predictive analytics and using technology. We made a historic investment in our local prosecutors. Now we are the only states in the country that actually helps to fund the U.S. attorney out of our state balance sheet. We made historic investments in community groups and community organizations and job training programs and helping people who are coming back home. And the results have been for the past 19 months, Maryland has had one of the largest drops in homicide and violent crime anywhere in the country. The last time the homicide rate in Baltimore City was this low, I wasn't born yet. So we have seen tremendous progress. But we try to show that the answer of doing it is not militarizing everybody. It's not just locking up entire communities and it's not going after children. That we believe in accountability.  

[00:35:35] We believe that if people break the law, particularly when you're talking about violent offenders and repeat violent offenders, there has to be accountability. Yet at the same time, we can do two things at once, we can both address the fact that Maryland incarcerates more black men and boys than anywhere in the country between the ages of 18 and 25. Number two, by the way, is Mississippi. But Maryland's number one. That you could address that dynamic and also make communities safer because it wasn't about a choice. And so I love the question and I love the frame because I think we can show that accountability and humanity can live side by side. You don't have to choose for a system that actually works for people. And I think in the state of Maryland, I think we've proven that to be true.  

[00:36:23] Music Interlude.  

Sarah [00:36:32] Before we wrap up Pantsuit Politics, we like to do a little segment we call Outside of Politics. It's an exhale. Now, if you go on TikTok and you search your own name, there's a lot of dance dancing video. To just start, there's a lot of dancing. There's a whole lot of dancing.  

Gov. Wes Moore [00:36:46] Is it really?  

Sarah [00:36:47] Oh my God, yes. So here is my question. Speaking earlier to the vibes election. In a dance off between you and the vice president--  

Gov. Wes Moore [00:36:58] I'll win.  

Sarah [00:37:01] He didn't even let me finish the question.  

Gov. Wes Moore [00:37:02] I always say it didn't matter where you went. I'm winning.  

Beth [00:37:05] Competitive. I get the sense that Governor Moore doesn't lose anything.  

Sarah [00:37:08] He did admit to being competitive, but I barely got vice president out and he was like, "It's me. I'm winning and I'm beating her in a dance off." That was very first.  

Gov. Wes Moore [00:37:15] I love MVP and I watch it. I love watching the MVP dance. She's so joyful when she dances. She's so good.  

Sarah [00:37:23] She is. It is amazing.  

Beth [00:37:25] Speaking of joy, here is my Outside of Politics question for you. It's related, I think. I found on a kid's website about you that you and your wife were married by an Elvis impersonator. And I really need to know about that. I need to know how good the impersonator was. I need to know if there was a song, if there was dancing? Just as much as you're willing to share, I would like to take in.  

Gov. Wes Moore [00:37:48] I love it. And actually I don't think I really spoken much about this publicly, so this is exclusive.  

Beth [00:37:53] We're making news. I like it. 

Gov. Wes Moore [00:37:55] We are making news. So I proposed to my then fiancé, now wife, right before I left for Afghanistan.  

Sarah [00:38:04] Wow.  

Gov. Wes Moore [00:38:04] And so literally it was at almost like a going away gathering that we were having. I proposed to her. It was beautiful. The whole plan was that, all right, when I get back, we'll then get planning and doing all that kind of stuff. But then I left for Afghanistan. Our deployment was a tough deployment. It was a combat tour. But I came home because my grandfather passed away. He was 87 years old. He basically because my father died when I was young, he helped to raise me. And so I got permission from my unit to go back for his funeral because usually they only let you go back if it's funeral for a child, a spouse, a sibling or a parent. But since he basically raised me. They're, like, we want to let him go back to bury his grandfather. And so when I went back home, I was talking with my then fiancé and I was like, you know what? We should just go and get married, man. Because I was like, we're already engaged. I love her with everything in me. And I was like, I don't know why we would wait.  

[00:39:03] And particularly if something-- and this is another reality, that if something were to have happened to me when I went back to Afghanistan, fiancées are treated very differently than spouses when it comes to benefits, all that kind of stuff. And so I was like if something happens I'd much rather you be my wife than my fiancé. So we went to be we went to Vegas because we couldn't do it anywhere at the city Hall or anything like that because we couldn't tell our family because our family would freak out if they knew we got married without them being there at the ceremony. We knew that we had this big wedding plan, so I was like we just got to do it real quiet. And so we went to Vegas. We went on the Strip and we saw wedding married by Elvis and so literally Elvis Presley married us. It was pretty dope because we got there and didn't really have rings. I had makeshift rings because we hadn't been preparing for it. And by the time we got back and had our wedding for everybody else--  

Sarah [00:40:05] So you're saying did you come back have the wedding for everybody else?  

Gov. Wes Moore [00:40:09] Yeah. But it was basically just a party. That's when we let them on. They thought they were watching us get married. Really what we were just doing we were just having a party [crosstalk].  

Sarah [00:40:15] JK we're already married.  

Gov. Wes Moore [00:40:17] Hashtag already done.  

Sarah [00:40:19] Oh my God. This is like a novel. There's emotion. There's highs. There's a funeral. Goodness gracious. That's a very emotional journey.  

Beth [00:40:29] Was he a good impersonator? Did you feel like you got your money's worth there? 

Gov. Wes Moore [00:40:33] Yeah. He was actually pretty good. And I think I was probably a couple of drinks in, so he's probably even better than I thought. But he was good. He was meaningful.  

Sarah [00:40:45] Amazing. My youngest son was obsessed with Elvis for a while, so I have more information and knowledge of Elvis impersonators than I care to. [Crosstalk].  

Gov. Wes Moore [00:40:57] That was a story that's actually pretty cool.  

Sarah [00:40:59] It is. I know a lot about Elvis' life now. Like a lot. And I bet you'd like to get to that level. That's got to be high up on the pyramid of an impersonator is marrying people in Vegas. You know what I mean? That's not your rookies. 

Gov. Wes Moore [00:41:11] One hundred percent.  

Beth [00:41:12] But did he sing for you? This is important to me.  

Gov. Wes Moore [00:41:15] No, he didn't sing. He danced. I was really hoping, like, can I get something? Low blues [inaudible] nothing.  

Beth [00:41:25] Yeah. Love Me Tender. It's him. It's right there.  

Sarah [00:41:26] Yeah. Anything.  

Gov. Wes Moore [00:41:27] Exactly. Exactly.  

Beth [00:41:29] And I would ask you who would win in a dance off between you and this impersonator, but I think we all know the answer.  

Gov. Wes Moore [00:41:36] Always me. It's me. I would let him choose the genre and Imma win. 

Beth [00:41:44] Love it. Well, Governor Moore, thank you so much for sharing so generously. That story was wonderful. Thank you for spending time with us. We really appreciate it.  

Gov. Wes Moore [00:41:51] Y'all are amazing. I really appreciate you, thank you.  

Sarah [00:41:56] Thank you so much to Governor Moore for joining us, maybe just for existing, for leading the state of Maryland. More Governor Wes Moore in all the places. That's just all I have to say about that.  

Beth [00:42:08] A good plus one.  

Sarah [00:42:11] What a delight. Okay. Don't forget to check out our show notes for the link to get tickets to the Boston show on November 7th. We will be back in your ears on Tuesday. And until then, keep it nuanced y'all.  

[00:42:20] Music Interlude.  

Sarah: Pantsuit Politics is produced by Studio D Podcast Production.  

Beth: Alise Napp is our Managing Director. Maggie Penton is our Director of Community Engagement.  

Sarah: Xander Singh is the composer of our theme music with inspiration from original work by Dante Lima.  

Beth: Our show is listener-supported. Special thanks to our executive producers.  

Executive Producers: Martha Bronitsky. Ali Edwards. Janice Elliott. Sarah Greenup. Julie Haller. Tiffany Hasler. Emily Holladay. Katie Johnson. Emily Helen Olson. Barry Kaufman. Katherine Vollmer. Laurie LaDow. Lily McClure. Linda Daniel. The Pentons. Tracey Puthoff. Sarah Ralph. Jeremy Sequoia. Katie Stigers. Karin True. Onica Ulveling. Nick and Alysa Villeli. Amy Whited. Lee Chaix McDonough. Morgan McHugh. Jen Ross. Sabrina Drago. Becca Dorval. Christina Quartararo. Shannon Frawley. Jessica Whitehead. Samantha Chalmers. Crystal Kemp. Megan Hart. The Lebo Family. The Adair Family. Genny Francis. Leighanna Pillgram-Larsen. The Munene Family. Ashley Rene. Michelle Palacios. 

Sarah: Jeff Davis. Melinda Johnston. Michelle Wood. Nichole Berklas. Paula Bremer and Tim Miller. 

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