The Harris-Trump Presidential Debate
TOPICS DISCUSSED
The Presidential Debate Between Kamala Harris and Donald Trump
How to Make an Electoral Impact with Your Time and Money
Taylor Swift Endorses Kamala Harris
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TRANSCRIPT
Sarah [00:00:07] This is Sarah Stewart Holland.
Beth [00:00:09] This is Beth Silvers.
Sarah [00:00:10] You're listening to Pantsuit Politics.
Beth [00:00:12] Where we take a different approach to the news.
[00:00:14] Music Interlude.
[00:00:29] Thank you so much for joining us today. We're here a day later than usual because we wanted to get your reflections on last night's presidential debate as quickly as possible. Huge thanks to our partners at Studio D for getting this episode to you quickly and off schedule. We also know that many of you are thinking seriously about the best ways to use your time and money in this election. So we're going to offer our suggestions to you on what might be effective. And then, of course, we have to discuss Taylor. Taylor has spoken about the election, so we'll spend a few minutes on that at the very end. But before that, we have a few announcements.
Sarah [00:01:04] If you are a premium member, we have our next quarterly live event, our Spicy Live, on Thursday evening, September 19th. Now, if you are subscribed through Apple, send us your emails. The link is in the show notes and we will send the link to you for the Spicy Live. We'll also be including our paid Substack members for the first time ever as a part of our Spicy Live. So look for that if you're a subscriber on Substack.
Beth [00:01:26] Before we talk about the debate, I just want to acknowledge that we are recording and publishing this episode on September 11th. That has been 23 years since the attacks on our country that took so many lives and that really changed our national psyche. So we are thinking of everyone for whom those 23 years still feel like a very short time today. And we wanted to let you know that several years ago we spent a lot of time putting together a series to help us understand what happened before, during and after September 11th. And help us remember what happened before, during and after September 11th so that we can really think through what we learned from that event, who we are as a country and where we might go next. So we will link all those episodes in our show notes if you would like to listen to them for the first time or again. And we just thank you very much for all that you're doing in the world to commemorate this really difficult day in our nation's history. Up next, let's talk about that debate.
[00:02:26] Music Interlude.
[00:02:34] Sarah, the vibe I was getting from our listeners yesterday, pre-debate, was anxiety. Did you feel anxiety before the debate?
Sarah [00:02:42] Nope.
Beth [00:02:42] I felt no anxiety at all.
Sarah [00:02:43] Zero anxiety.
Beth [00:02:45] For me, this was all right in Kamala Harris's wheelhouse. She is good at engaging in real time in an adversarial posture. And I just felt confident that she was going to go in and do what she needed to do. And I felt confident that all the preparation in the world will not change who Donald Trump is. And I think that's how it played out.
Sarah [00:03:06] Yeah, I know we're going to walk through this a little chronologically, so we'll get to this at the end. But I'm more anxiety and frustration after the debates than I did before. I really was not stressed at all. I knew that she would handle herself more than competently. I was frustrated that the expectations seemed to be Kamala Harris has to knock this out of the park and perfectly walk the line between distancing herself from the Biden administration and defining herself well to voters. And Donald Trump shouldn't call her a bitch on live television. I felt like she had to walk the line perfectly and he had to hold it together with a minimal level of emotional control. I mean, the good news is he couldn't even do that. But I was a little frustrated by the expectations.
Beth [00:04:00] What I so appreciate about Kamala Harris and the campaign she's running is that she is not spending time complaining about that, though. We can feel that for her. But she seems so clear on what the expectations are, what she needs to do, and she's just not fighting with it. She's just saying, okay, well, that's what I got to do. I'm going to come out and do it. And I feel like from the first moment you could tell, she went in with a plan and she worked the plan beginning to end. I loved, loved the way she just confidently strolled over to him on the stage and made him shake her hand and looked him in the face and said her name. So maybe he got the pronunciation this time and let's have a good debate. I thought it was perfect.
Sarah [00:04:43] Yeah, I said in the chat as the debate was starting, I really hope she shakes his hand. I think it's a sad state of affairs that no one has shaken hands in a presidential debate since 2016. And if she is telling the truth, which I believe she is, that she wants to turn the page, she wants Americans to stop fighting each other, then the best way to do that is to show it. Not just tell it. And she showed that. She went over and she shook his hand. Now, in contrast to how often and accurately she then baited him. That make an interesting combination. But I think that first moment where she introduced herself to him, they never met. They just never met. So, yes, I was very, very happy she did that.
Beth [00:05:33] They've never met because he won't do anything that's not about him. And so, unlike other former presidents, he did not attend the next inauguration. He did not participate in transitioning power. He does not go to funerals. Things that are not about Donald Trump, he doesn't do it and that's why they've never met. And I think it's really important to remember that that's why they've not been in the same room. Because sometimes I think that point sounds a little bit like, well, she's inexperienced or something. No, it's him. It's his selfishness. That's the reason they've never met. I like the handshake and didn't mind it in contrast to the jabs at him, because I think the handshake is a symbol of respect for all voters and a symbol of respect for the process and the office. She needs to be able to shake all kinds of people's hands if she's going to be the president. She needs to be able to put aside any kind of personal disgust that she has about people and show up that way. And I think she just constantly put on in a really visual way I can inhabit this office. She is so much shorter than he is. There was a risk in going to stand that close to him, but she looked physically overpowering because he was like slowly kind of getting to his podium and unsure about what he was going to do. And I feel like it rattled him immediately. He knows television. He knows how that looks on television. And I don't think he got out of his head on that for quite a while.
Sarah [00:06:59] Well, I think it was reflective of his lack of preparation, that he had not decided what he was going to do. He was waiting for her to lead the way, and that showed over and over in the debate that he wasn't quite sure. Every once in a while he'd bubble up with a line where you would hear-- I hesitate to use the word preparation. You would hear the instructions from his team, like, make sure and say this, make sure and do this. But he still was wildly unprepared and missed moment after moment that he could have taken to press her on issues. I thought the handshake was great, but I thought she started a little-- I wouldn't say nervous, but you could tell that she was a little shaky. Who could blame her? It's an incredibly high stakes situation. I have so much empathy and understanding because when I did moot court and law school, which I loved, I hated opening statements. I do not want to come out and kick it off. I hate that part. But once the questions start, I loved it. I loved it. I would have done it all day long. I would always pray for the judges to interrupt my opening statements because that's when I would really gain my confidence. And I saw that exact same phenomenon with her. Like she started and she knew what she was doing, but the second there was a flow and that we're responding, we're taking questions, her confidence just soared. Especially I guess it was probably the first or second question from the moderators about abortion, she really hit her stride.
Kamala Harris [00:08:32] Let's understand how we got here. Donald Trump hand-selected three members of the United States Supreme Court with the intention that they would undo the protections of Roe v Wade, and they did exactly as he intended. And now, in over 20 states, there are Trump abortion bans which make it criminal for a doctor or nurse to provide health care. In one state, it provides prison for life. Trump abortion bans that make no exception even for rape and incest. Which understand what that means. A survivor of a crime, of violation to their body, does not have the right to make a decision about what happens to their body next. That is immoral. And one does not have to abandon their faith or deeply held beliefs to agree the government and Donald Trump certainly should not be telling a woman what to do with her body. I have talked with women around our country. You want to talk about this is what people wanted? Pregnant women who want to carry a pregnancy to term suffering from a miscarriage, being denied care in an emergency room because the health care providers are afraid they might go to jail and she's bleeding out in a car in the parking lot. She didn't want that. Her husband didn't want that. A 12 or 13 year old survivor of incest being forced to carry a pregnancy to term, they don't want that.
Beth [00:10:02] I'm sure she was nervous and that there was just a lot of adrenaline. That power move of going over to shake his hand, she didn't know how he was going to respond to that. So I can imagine everything just kind of sinking in, okay, I got past that. In that first answer on the economy, I could hear her kind of working through all the advice that I've heard for her from the last two weeks of commentary. She needs to do some biography. She needs to introduce herself to people. She needs to differentiate from Biden without rejecting him. All that stuff you could kind of hear packaged in that first answer. But then when she hits this abortion issue, which she's been working on for the entirety of her vice presidency, the ability that she has to tell other people's stories I think is unmatched right now. The way that she synthesizes the experiences that women are having out there and relates them through the framework of his answer. All he's got on abortion, because he doesn't care about this issue and doesn't believe in it and is mad that he has to tiptoe around it; all he's got is, well, I gave it back to the States, which is what everybody wanted. And for her to be prepared to pick that up and say, "Let me tell you about all the people who don't want this," was excellent.
Sarah [00:11:16] Well, I just really appreciate her naming what I have said and felt for so long when conservatives and Donald Trump trot out this complete and total lie about late term abortions. Which is the underlying assumption that women who have encountered an unplanned pregnancy-- and I'm assuming that because really what you're talking about in late term abortions almost single handedly are people who have planned pregnancies that have gone terribly wrong or children who didn't know what was happening to their bodies. But whatever, let's just assume it's an unplanned pregnancy. Is that they somehow morph into psychopathic killers who want to execute babies. Like the way she said, "This is insulting to women," I felt it in my core. Because I was like, yes, stop talking about us as if the second we get pregnant we become scheming killers. It's so insulting. We are still moral and ethical beings. Thank you very much. We are in a very complicated moral and ethical decision, and maybe you could just stay the hell out of it. I just really appreciated how she named that.
Beth [00:12:45] He also demonstrated in this section of the debate a complete lack of either understanding or caring how government works. He can't really articulate what it means for abortion to be returned to the states and the impact that a federal abortion ban could still have. When he was asked directly, simply, "Would you veto a national abortion ban if Congress enacted one?" He said, "Well, we wouldn't need to." As though it's off the table because he returned it to the states. And that's just not true. He doesn't seem to understand federal preemption or what would happen if Congress decided to keep legislating in this area.
Donald Trump [00:13:27] And as far as the abortion ban, no, I'm not in favor of abortion. But it doesn't matter, because this issue has now been taken over by the states.
Linsey Davis [00:13:36] Would you veto a national abortion ban if you can do that?
Donald Trump [00:13:38] Well, I wouldn't have to, because, again and two things...
Beth [00:13:41] And then we had that stunning moment where he said don't pay any attention to my vice president.
Linsey Davis [00:13:48] But if I could just get a yes or no because you're running mate J.D. Vance has said that you would veto if it did come to your desk.
Donald Trump [00:13:54] Well, I didn't discuss it with J.D., in all fairness, J.D... And I don't mind if he has a certain view, but I think he was speaking for me, but I really didn't.
Sarah [00:14:04] Yeah, you could hear him kind of trace out some reasoning. I haven't talked to him about that. He's welcome to have his own opinions about this, which I guess on the very tiptop surface sounds reasonable, except for y'all friends. This isn't Britney and Tyler where we have a right to differing opinions. This is your vice president, so you actually do need to have a consistent policy between the two of you that is reflective of your administration. I just struggle so much sometimes to follow the path. And you know what really makes me mad about where I am in my life against my will? Is that I can't often follow his reasoning. I don't think it makes sense, but I know what he's trying to say because I've just listened to him and I know how he tries to explain himself and either lie or obfuscate or, like you said, illustrate his confusion about the process. So I'm in these two places where I'm either mad at myself because I actually know what he's trying to say or I'm confused because he has branched off so many times that I have kind of lost the plot. It's not that I'm confused. I'm bored, actually. That's the difference. I'm actually not confused about what he's trying to say. I'm just bored with the way he meanders so often.
Beth [00:15:29] I think that the abortion issue is one where I'm always kind of actually leaning forward a little bit to hear what he's going to say, because I do feel that it is psychologically challenging for him. There are so few places in his life where he has to pander to anyone. He deliberately designs his universe so that he's not pandering. Everyone is catering to him. And he knows on this issue that he has deceived millions of people, that he has exploited the religious beliefs of millions of people, constantly telling them you don't have to like me, but I'm the only person who will deliver on this issue that you care so much about. And in this election, recognizing that even with those millions of people who he must have if he has a chance of winning, the policy from his party has become so extreme that he needs to backtrack a little bit. And I just think he resents all of it. I think he resents every person in his coalition who prevents him from saying whatever he wants about abortion. My posture is what are you going to do today with this?
Sarah [00:16:40] Well, because he can't navigate that. He doesn't have the political skills to navigate any sort of coalition building. And it becomes abundantly clear in those moments. And I think for me being bored is a good transition to talk about where she took her moment early to needle him on the rally size, to invite people-- I love that moment. She's like, I'm going to do something just a little crazy. Why don't you go to a rally? Go to a rally and watch what happens?
Kamala Harris [00:17:07] And I'm going to actually do something really unusual. And I'm going to invite you to attend one of Donald Trump's rallies because it's a really interesting thing to watch. You will see during the course of his rallies he talks about fictional characters like Hannibal Lecter. He will talk about windmills cause cancer. And what you will also notice is that people start leaving his rallies early out of exhaustion and boredom.
Sarah [00:17:32] And she said people will leave out of exhaustion and boredom. And you could just see the circuits fire and you could see his posture change. It's really when he started yelling. He raised his voice. And really, I don't feel like it ever came down much. The rest of the debate he was so, so angry about the rally size. And I just think it is reflective of a point she made over and over again, which he doesn't care about you. He only cares about himself. This shouldn't get to him so easily. It shouldn't bother him so much that she says something about his rallies. His crowd sizes should not be able to set off someone so easily. And it goes to another point she made later about foreign dignitaries and dictators. If she can get him to take the bait so easily on his crowd sizes, what does that mean when he's in a room with Vladimir Putin? This is serious. I know it's like a joke and it's laughable. And he does sound like your angry grandpa whose keys you just take away. He could be the commander in chief. Things are at stake here. He should not be that easily manipulated.
Beth [00:18:54] I think it's important to note that she did this in the immigration section. Immigration is his best issue in this election where he focused on his agenda. If he cared about the things he thunders away about at these rallies, he would have been able to stay on message in the immigration section. So it was clever to me that one, she kept it really tight on having to own anything about the current state of immigration and then illustrated in the process how easily he can be manipulated by anyone. How easily he can be thrown off course, and how it's always about him.
Donald Trump [00:19:32] Millions and millions of people to come into our country. And look at what's happening to the towns all over the United States. And a lot of towns don't want to talk. It's not going to be Aurora or Springfield. A lot of towns don't want to talk about it because they're so embarrassed by it. In Springfield, they're eating the dogs. The people that came in, they're eating the cats. They're eating the pets of the people that live there. And this is what's happening in our country and it's a shame.
Beth [00:20:02] Sarah, when he said they're eating the pets, I just leaned back in my bed and said, "Lord, have mercy. I cannot believe this."
Sarah [00:20:09] Okay, here is the point I made to my husband this morning. Because this was one of the facts checking moments that conservative media members are angry about. Because David Muir said we reached out to the city manager of Springfield, there are no credible reports. And Donald Trump, again, sounding like an unhinged member of your family, said, "Well, I saw it on TV." They had to anticipate this enough to reach out to the city manager. What a sad state of affairs that the good people of ABC News thought, well, this is what's all over 4chan and Truth Social today, is this unhinged conspiracy theory about members of an immigrant community eating people's pets. So we better be prepared to fact check this thing that any normal person would read and go, that's wild. That's not true. And they were ready. That's the part that struck me, is they were so ready to fact check that. I was impressed and also depressed that they had to do that.
Beth [00:21:29] Both. And what makes me so depressed about this entire story is not the word. I don't know what the word is. Meme. I guess I'll just adopt what J.D. Vance says it is. He said, we made it a meme so people would care. That's J.D. Vance's line. Maybe it's not true, but what is true is that this influx of Haitian immigrants has been very difficult for this community and nobody cared about it until we made it a meme. Well, one, we have been talking about immigration being hard on communities for ten years. And two, you are telling us out loud that you don't care what's true or not as long as you get to make the point you want to make. And three, I want someone-- and I know that this was not the job of David and Lindsay, the moderators, and really not a great place for Kamala Harris to go in this debate. But I want to talk about why there's an influx of Haitian immigrants. Why disease levels accompany that influx? Because the government has cratered there. There's so much heartbreak on the other side of this. To turn these people into monsters so that you can score a point is, to me, one of the saddest moments of our politics in a long time. And that's a high bar. That's a really high bar.
Sarah [00:22:46] Yeah, I do think the way she pivots in immigration to saying they don't care. The way you know they don't care is we had a solution and he tell people to run against it. He just wants to run the problems. He doesn't have solution because I think it picks up the pattern that is so evident; he can't speak to a plan. He has a concept of a plan, don't worry. But he doesn't have any sort of future orientation about how to solve the problems of America. And honestly, he didn't in 2016 either. He only knows how to beat this drum that everything is terrible. And I cannot for the life of me-- and I don't know if it's just the privilege of my lived experience that I struggle so much to see how people hear him talk about this hellscape of modern day America and go, yeah, that's right. I feel that connects with me. It's it's hard. It's really hard to listen to him say these things to see that he really doesn't have a plan. And that's what's so frustrating, is you read these independent voters, undecided voters, saying, "I still didn't hear enough specifics from her on her plan." And I think where were his?
[00:24:03] I'm so confused by this continued criticism. I have to believe that it is a lot of just the formulation of the media. That's their critique of her, and so undecided voters have also said, okay, well, that's my critique as well. That's the only thing I can come up with. And I don't really have any beef with the moderators. I think they did a great job. I think even in the moments where he ran all over the limits of the reply or took a reply when he didn't have one under the rules, it's just hard. When someone's yelling at you like that, what was David Miller supposed to do? Get up and go, sir stop? I was happy with the fact checking. I was happy with the questions. And I think where he did take way more time than was allotted to him, that's just a hard one to handle.
Beth [00:24:43] I was on Patriots and chatting with listeners just as you were on Substack, and there was a moment when the entirety of my screen was listeners typing "Mute his mike" just all over the screen. And I totally understood that frustration. At the same time, I think every moment he took to rant worked to her advantage. And I think these moderators did a better job than anyone has done since 2015 in handling him in a debate. We didn't talk about golf swings. We didn't go back and forth with insults. She insulted him mightily and he insulted her. But it wasn't playground stuff. He didn't even do sort of comrade Kamala and the kinds of stuff he's doing online. And I think part of it might have been that his people stressed don't get into that, so he couldn't even look at her. He couldn't even turn his gaze toward her. And every time she insulted him hard, she turned her whole torso to make sure that he knew she was talking directly to him. There's nothing she won't say to his face.
[00:25:52] And that all kind of brings me to the book that we read a few months ago, The Commander in Chief Test. I kept thinking about that during this debate because I do think most of what she needed to communicate is that I can handle this. I can handle any tough personality. I'm not afraid of him. He doesn't scare me. And so I think if we are complaining about the moderators, from any perspective, if you're complaining about the moderators, you know that you failed the commander in chief test. The people who are, like, why did they fact check only him and not her? I would like to know what piece of her discussion they wanted fact checked because I didn't hear things as blatantly false as some states make it legal to execute an infant. She didn't lie like that, so there wasn't as much to fact check. They ask her some very tough questions. She handled them well. She passed the test. If you're complaining about everything else, it's because you failed the test. And he did.
Sarah [00:26:53] I thought a lot about The Commander in Chief Test. I thought, is he talking so forcefully? Is he going after her or is he saying they haven't fired anybody? I really wish she'd turn that around and sort of taken the Joe Biden approach back in 2016 during his DNC speech and say that's the cruelty of him. He thinks firing people is how you lead. He thinks firing people is how you manage difficult situations. And that's not the reality of this job or much of any job. But I was thinking a lot about the commander in chief test and I wish I had the commander in chief tests for the economy, because that's what I hear in these undecided voters. This sense of like, it is still very hard for me. I don't hear from her what she's going to do about it. Even though she says over and over again, I'm going to give you a down payment help. I'm going to give tax breaks to small businesses. She has this opportunity economy. She really harped on it.
[00:27:52] And I think in much the same way Jeff Friedman's sort of minds are complex psychology around leadership in foreign policy, there could be an equivalent book for the economy because it's so amorphous. I just kept thinking, what could she say? Because then some people would say, “Well, she'll say all this, but how is she going to get it through Congress?" And I want to just go, okay, well, what could she say to convince you she's going to get it through Congress? She can't say I'm going to strong arm United States senators into voting the way I want. I guess you could say, look, you can have your quibbles with the Joe Biden administration, but what we have shown is that we have the capacity to get bipartisan legislation through Congress. We have a record. And I felt her hesitation and maybe not quite being able to articulate owning the good parts of that administration's record when acknowledging that people are still unhappy with Joe Biden. But I just listen to these people and I think, what could she say? It's complicated.
[00:28:55] When they're giving you all these plans like Hillary Clinton, it's she's nerdy and I don't trust her personality. And when she's fully occupying this personality of confidence and strength, you're like, she's not a big enough nerd. I don't get it. I'm really frustrated when I read people because I just think, what could she say that could be true? She could be like him and just lie. And there's a part of me that really respects the people who were like, "Don't tell me why I shouldn't vote against Donald Trump, tell me why I should vote for you." On the upper levels, I get that and it sounds really nice. And also, she's running against Donald Trump. How could you? How could you listen to this loon talk about people eating pets and go, yeah, I trust him. Why is it still close? Beth, why? She slayed this. I want to believe that she'll open up a ten point lead, but you and I both know that's probably not going to happen. And I don't understand why. I'm losing my mind a little bit. I'm losing my mind a little bit over this.
Beth [00:30:01] When I'm losing my mind about things and I also, in my heart of hearts, just want this to be like 280 million to zero, it's difficult for me to understand why people still cling to Donald Trump. So I want to break it down. The first thing I think about with the economy is the fact that this weekend I drove to my hometown through a lot of very red areas. And while I saw fewer Trump signs than I have in the past, they were still there. And where I saw them were on these beautiful big farms. In front of large buildings and expensive equipment. In spaces with clear skies and clean air. And I turned the radio off to sort of sit with that and to just think about the fact that this man whose primary platform, as you described it well just a minute ago, is America sucks. And I have to sit with the fact that in this gorgeous, wonderful part of America that I grew up in, some of the people with the most are the people most attached to the idea that America sucks. And so that's tough.
[00:31:29] And when I think about what does she do in the face of that, I have no idea. What does she do in the face of this real mismatch between what a lot of people feel and what is, I don't know. Where I get it more, I heard one of the undecided voters that ABC or someone interviewed around the debate, is a woman who said I'm probably going to vote for Trump because when I think about it my life was just easier when he was the president. And from a perspective of the groceries that she was buying, I think that's probably true. And I can understand and have grace and empathy for people who have a limited capacity to pay attention to politics and struggle economically and just don't care why. They don't care about what policy leads to what. It's just the net effect on my life. We could spend episodes unpacking why groceries are expensive, and maybe we should. That fertilizer is more expensive because of the war in Ukraine. That grain is more expensive because of that. That the price of eggs has been impacted by avian flu all over the world. I mean, there are a million pieces, right?
[00:32:47] But I understand that a lot of people don't have capacity to care about that, and the reality that they felt is that it was cheaper under Donald Trump and maybe he could make it cheaper again. I think you're right that there's probably not much she can do about that except just keep showing up in communities. When you watch video of her on the ground in communities, she really listens to people and she really embraces them. And she is not standing up and saying, no, look at the statistics. Look how well the economy is doing. We made the soft landing. All the things that I would be so tempted to say every single day, she doesn't do it. She accepts it as it is. And I hope that that will start to move people along. But I 100% share your frustration. It's got to be, especially if you work for her, just the most obnoxious set of challenges to try to convince people you cannot trust him and you can trust me.
Sarah [00:33:51] Yeah, it's maddening. And, look, there are people who hate Democrats. Fine. They're lost to us. I don't care. Whatever. I think it's wild. I don't feel that way about Republicans even the Matt Gaetzs of the world. But, whatever. To me, what's so confusing about that is if you are a low information voter, then how can you not look at these two people on that stage and go, well... In the past you just went on personality; you went on the JFK was more comfortable in front of the camera than Richard Nixon. And so that's where I'm just like my brain is breaking a little bit. Because I think, okay, I guess we haven't had this exact situation where we're talking about a former president, so they can really think back to the economy under his presidency before it tanked in the middle of a global pandemic. But whatever, fine. There's also supposed to be negativity bias. Even psychologically, that doesn't make sense. I'm so confused.
[00:35:00] If your low information isn't him blabbering on about people eating pets enough? Isn't that enough? Or the inflation of the last three years has just been so impactful. I guess that's what it is. Look, I'm not a trust fund baby. I buy things. I understand everything is more expensive. I get it. I agree. And also, did you think everything was going to stay cheap forever after a global pandemic? I don't know. I just really, really, really struggle. I just struggle. I'm trying to find grace in my heart for those people and I'm trying to find empathy. And it just seems willfully ignorant. I don't even know another word for it. And I don't know if it's sexism wrapped up in it. Like at the end of the day they just don't want to vote for a woman? Sure, maybe that's some of it. I don't know. It's just so maddening to watch him behave the way he did in that debate and people go, I don't know, I guess I'll still vote for Trump.
Beth [00:36:08] The thing that I know that I do with Kamala Harris is project a lot of my own life experiences onto her. So a lot of the things that for years I have really admired in her come from me imagining who she is through the lens of having practiced law as a woman. I say that because when I think about people who really like Trump, I try to remember that they're doing that, too. I was at my grandfather's funeral on Monday afternoon with a lot of people who really loved Donald Trump. My uncle who presided over the service as the Minister, I know from his Facebook post has completely different views about politics than mine. He is a kind and loving man. And he did a beautiful job in this funeral service for my grandfather of discussing how my grandfather was a kind and loving man, even though he was a hard man.
[00:37:14] My grandfather was a hard man. He was not warm. He could be very harsh. He could be very cold, but he did love his family and he did do the best he could, I think. And so I try to remember when I am projecting all this admiration toward Vice President Harris Coming from my life experiences, that other people are doing the same with Donald Trump. Everybody got there for a reason. And I just try to stay in that mindset. Everybody got there for a reason, and they count as much as I do, and their reasons are as valid as mine are even if we could argue them differently. Even if I could win every debate on this, it matters, too. And I do just continue to be pleased to see her saying, I respect that you can disagree with me on a lot. There's room for you here if January 6th was a bridge too far. Whatever it is, I respect that she seems to believe that as well.
[00:38:25] Music Interlude.
Sarah [00:38:32] You know what I think it is? I actually think my frustration and anger-- let's just say anger-- isn't about people's attachment to him. I agree with you. I can get there. Whatever. It's the way people want to have it both ways with their view of the government. That's what bothers me. It's this undercurrent of they better fix everything, but never mess anything up. And I don't want too much government except if I'm not happy. And then I better hear every single specifics about what the government's going to do to fix it for me. That's what bothers me. Especially around the economy, there's a part of me that kind of wishes she would just say to people, "Guys, I don't have that much control over the economy and neither does he. And if he tells you he does, he's lying."
[00:39:27] The sense that the government is omnipotent and can control the economy and can control other countries and their conflicts, it's the sense that the government should be able to fix it, but I really don't believe they could. I won't believe the specifics of how they're going to fix it if they say what they can't and are capable of doing, that's not enough. And even if it was, I don't believe they could accomplish it. It's like there's just a no win undercurrent around people's opinion of the government. But strangely, only when Democrats are in charge. There doesn't seem to be this paradoxical view of the government when you're talking about Republican candidates. And that's what really makes me want to scream. That's what it is. It's less about Donald Trump and it's about this narrative people have about the government. And it just drives me crazy.
Beth [00:40:17] I think that's totally fair. I think people have that same kind of narrative about their workplaces. Any place where someone has a little bit of power and control over you.
Sarah [00:40:26] That makes sense.
Beth [00:40:27] I think kids feel this way about their parents. You don't know anything, but I need you to know everything. Don't protect me, but keep me safe. We're just not rational creatures. And don't misunderstand. It drives me bananas for Donald Trump to be able to stand on that stage and say a man on TV said that Haitian immigrants are eating people's pets. And also the FBI has put out fraudulent crime statistics that the man on TV's perspective about the pets is sacrosanct. But what goes through a process and is studied and tracked over years is fraudulent because it doesn't comport with my worldview. All of this also makes me so mad. I'm just really trying to work on not letting the fact that this is such a mess and it's going to continue to be such a mess make me feel hopeless.
[00:41:36] Because when people say will this debate matter? Will it move any of these undecided people? I don't know. If you are on TV in a focus group about undecided voters, you've probably made being an undecided voter pretty important to you on some level. And so are they going to watch this debate and go, well, I figured it out now, I don't know. But will some people who were not excited about Kamala Harris now be excited and be more likely to show up and vote and more likely to talk to their people about it? Yes. Will some people who were excited about Trump be less excited and less likely to show up? Maybe. Elections happen in degrees. There's a lot that goes on here and none of it is linear, but I do think it matters. I really do.
Sarah [00:42:21] Yeah, I think we have to have them. This idea that we're on this trajectory where we have fewer, they're not controlled by the commission, maybe we weren't going to have at all any at all, I do not want that. I do not want that. I am excited for post-Trump debates. That would be really fantastic. Those are the parts that hit me the hardest. When she was like, aren't you tired of this? Aren't you ready to move on? I just wanted to (and often did) scream yes, yes. Please, God, can we get past the guy who lies without thinking about it and not in the way that most politicians couch their answers to play to their strengths. They all do it. It's fine. We all do it when we answer questions just for the record. That's not what he's doing and I'm just ready to move past it. I'm just so ready to move past it. And I guess that's the part too that frustrates me with people, is they complain about our civil discourse and then go, "But the economy was better." That's frustrating.
Beth [00:43:22] Do you think there should be another debate between Kamala Harris and Donald Trump?
Sarah [00:43:26] Sure. Yeah, you should have more than one debate in a presidential race, even in one this short. I think the more they can get in front of people, the better. The more information voters can receive, the better. Absolutely.
Beth [00:43:37] I can't decide how I feel about this, because on the one hand, I totally agree with you. I love debates. I love being in front of people discussing ideas. I do think there is a lot people would still like to hear from Kamala Harris, whether it's fair in contrast to him or not. I think high information voters were probably frustrated last night hearing a lot of her stump speech packaged in these answers. I like that she doesn't freelance on policy and that she keeps it tight. And I like that she knows that low information voters are who she needs to reach and they haven't heard this before from her. But I get it. I would love for her to sit down with someone like a Jonathan Swan and really take some tough, detailed questions about her record and her policy. I don't think the "My values haven't changed" is good enough on some of these issues. I'd like to hear her flesh it out a lot more. All of that said, there is a piece of me that watched this last night and thought, what else is there to say? He had every opportunity to say what he wanted to say, and he did. And we've heard it all before and we'll hear it all again. And so I don't know if I'm her if I think the best use of my very limited time is prepping for and showing up at another one of these. I guess it depends a little on how the Walz-Vance debate goes. But I don't know. I just don't know what else there is to say in this one.
Sarah [00:45:00] I do think she needs to be doing more media. I think that they need to be a little less careful about that. I don't know if it's like left over from Biden. I don't know if it is her own careful approach, which I understand, but he is out there just doing podcasts after podcast. He is getting in front of people regularly, which no matter what crazy stuff he says during that, there is just an appearance of transparency that I think builds trust with people. And I would like to see her do more of that. I like that she's campaigning, actually going to places and showing up in swing states. And I think that's wildly important. But I think on some of those bus tours, she could just pop on Pantsuit Politics and talk to us for a minute or two. That'll be great. I think the more of that she does, the better. And the more of that she does, the more comfortable she gets. And I do think if there was another debate after this one, I hope-- it's not that I don't think she should prep, but like, girl, you got it.
Beth [00:45:54] That's right.
Sarah [00:45:55] You got it. And those media appearances would prep her in a way to take some of those tough questions and get closer to an answer that I think will connect with people. Because I understand what she's saying with my values didn't change. But I agree, I think she could expand on that a bit. And I am frustrated because I think the media has picked that up as their, like, this is our objective critique and our way to be fair to both sides. And so we can say that Kamala's policy is [inaudible]. That's a ludicrous thing to say when her opponent is Donald Trump. He has no policies and never has and hasn't for nine years. So that part really frustrates me. I really do. I'm inside my own head. Let's get back to normal and judge her on a truly normal way to judge the president of the United States of America. And also this devil on my other shoulder saying, "What are you talking about? Her opponent is Donald Trump." What do you mean? That is a crazy thing to say. It's a struggle.
Beth [00:46:57] I just want them to keep the confidence that she can do both because she can. She absolutely can. She could sit down with a Jonathan Karl or a Jonathan Swan or a Maggie Haberman, whoever, and explain why she used to be against fracking and is now okay with fracking. She can do that. She can manage it and I think she can carry it off really well. And I just want them to let her do it. So we have spent a lot of time focused on what frustrated us and what we're feeling hard things about. I do want to acknowledge. That the debate was very cathartic as well. There were a lot of moments during the debate that made people really happy, that met a need that many of us have been sitting with for a long time. For someone to say to Donald Trump your own military leaders say that you're a disgrace. World leaders laugh at you. They know they can manipulate you. There was a lot of catharsis. And so for the people who are really excited today, we did not mean to hush your buzz.
Sarah [00:47:58] Yeah, I totally had moments where I was like, yeah, girl, get it! Like calling him out on being a convicted felon, which for some reason is not still top of mind for people. It's wild to me. Talking about the endorsement of Republicans. Talking about the people who've worked for him and how they won't endorse him. They say that he's a threat. I thought she did such a good job. There was a moment where I was like, girl, pump the brakes. He's going to stroke out on stage. She was doing such a good job at needling him and you could just see him escalating and escalating, getting angry and angry. And I thought, I don't know, I think you may be doing too good of a job, Kamala. I think he might have a medical event on the stage. And I think he is confused about reality. He has aged tremendously and now he's the oldest candidate up here and that is showing. That was a beautiful thing to behold. I felt all that joy. I felt all that elation. I felt how good she did. It's just the frustration of feeling like why? She's doing such a good job. She's such a good candidate. She's so amazing. Why is this not a 20 point spread? Like that part is hard for me to let go of.
[00:49:15] And the true testament to Kamala Harris's personal capacity to be president of the United States is that that unfairness doesn't seem to get under her skin. Because there's a lot of unfair, ridiculous situations you find yourself in as president and they can't get to you. And this is a massive one that does not seem to get to her. It's amazing. It's miraculous. She should write a book. Because it drives me crazy and she's just like, no, okay, this is where we're at. Like the cool headedness of which she's like, "This is who I'm dealing with and this is what we're dealing with." The way she could go back and forth between speaking to him and speaking to us, I just thought, man. I also thought you could tell she has gained foreign policy chops. She was so confident and comfortable in that section of the debate, which is, again, so much of what you're doing with the president and nobody ever wants talk about. But it was so good and satisfying and well-executed. And of course, she won the debate. And anybody who says she didn't win the debate is detached in an important way from reality. I just really do want everybody to wake up and go, "Well, okay, we're all going to vote for Kamala now, obviously.
Beth [00:50:42] I think part of what made it masterful is that she's clear on who is on her jury in this election. This is a woman who's been at trial. She understands that you are speaking to the jury always. Even when you're speaking to the judge or the witness, you're still speaking to the jury. And she's made a decision about who is on her jury that she is really caring about in everything she does. I thought this came across most clearly when they asked Donald Trump about his comments that she turned black, that she wasn't really and then she turned black. When they pivoted to her, she absolutely could have given an answer that sounds like, "I am a proud black woman and the proud daughter of a South Asian mother. Like many Americans, my identity is a mix. And how beautiful that that's true in this country and only in America could my story be possible." She could easily have done that and it would have been great. It would have been fine. But she's picked her jury. And so instead of making it a story about her and a story about identity, she made it a story about a man who uses race to sow division in our society. And I thought it was brilliant. And you could just see the number of choices that they've made, all of the calculations that they've done to decide that this race is about those undecided voters, those voters who are uncomfortable voting for a Democrat. Maybe this will be the first time they've ever done it. People who voted for him twice. She said the late, great John McCain on stage.
Sarah [00:52:10] Couple of times.
Beth [00:52:12] She's constantly rattling off list of weapons to show that she has that foreign policy chops, the military confidence.
Sarah [00:52:19] Told us she owned a gun. That was a new one.
Beth [00:52:22] Yes, told us she was a gun owner. I mean, she really is focused on that. I think it's just been brilliantly done, and I hope not just because it appeals specifically to me.
Sarah [00:52:34] No, I think she is doing a great job. Again, I got so few notes for her, except for maybe do some more interviews. That's it. But only because you're so good at it, there's no reason not to. Like, you're fine. You got this. It's just so frustrating. Every time somebody is, like, "She won the debate and also the election is still going to be close," I just want to cry. Why? Why is this election going to be close? Maybe it's still not. I'm not giving up hope that we still will have a wave election, that we're still missing a lot in the polls and in these random selection of undecided voters. But, man, just wears me out. I feel worn out by it.
Beth [00:53:09] Well, that's a good transition to some questions that a friend of ours asked us to address on the show. And Kamala herself says there's a lot of work left to do. So our friend wants to know first if you have some money, maybe it's $100, $200 to give to this election, what's the best use of your money?
Sarah [00:53:29] I think the Harris-Walz campaign has a lot of money. I don't think fundraising is the concern. Now, I think it just feels good, like a vote of confidence when you donate. You're like, I'm participating. It's like a clap. It's like an applause. It's like a like button. I think that's a good way to use it. It just feels like I want to be a part of this moment. I think that when they have moments where she slays on the debate and they raise $9 million in an hour, that shows that that's people's sort of reaction. I think that's fine. Do it. But there are down ballot candidates that need money, as evidenced by the fact that the Harris-Walz campaign is putting $25 million of their own money in down ballot races. And I think it just doesn't matter. I think you could do it locally in your own down ballot races. If you're concerned about control of Senate, give Sherrod Brown and Jon Tester some money. The world is your oyster. There's so many opportunities here to give money, but I wouldn't think about it necessarily in terms of impact. I know that sounds wild. I just think that puts too pressure. It puts too much pressure on the choice. Think about it as what you want to participate in, not maximum impact. That's what I would say.
Beth [00:54:44] I was trying to come up with an answer other than it depends. I guess that's my default on so many things and it's such an annoying answer. So I think my framework is if you have this money that you do want to maximize the impact of it-- and I totally agree with what you said about how that's too much pressure. But my framework was the most impactful race that is closest to you is where I would put the money. So if that is the state rep for your district and those people matter a lot, I would put the money there. And a lot of those campaigns are not well funded at all. If it's contested and it's winnable and you see a way to be involved, that's where I would put the money. If it's a Senate race, great. If it's a school board race, there are people running races out there were $200 would matter quite a lot to them. So you just got to look around and decide what's most important to you and where you want to put that money and where you're going to feel like I said what I wanted to say with this donation. Okay, same question, but with your time. If you have time to get involved, what do you think is the most-- I I was going to say impactful, but now I'm not because you've eloquently told us that that's not what we're looking for. So effective or highest best use. What's the call to action for your time?
Sarah [00:56:08] I just want to feel good so people do it again. That's really the long and short of it. So if you're tiptoeing into political volunteering, I think the postcard campaigns are a great way to participate, to send postcards to those undecided voters who are always showing up in The Washington Post surveys. I think those are really great ways to just sort of dip your feet in. I think door knocking is great because, as I've said before, it's like the building blocks of mental health. You're moving your body, you're outside, you're connecting to other people. I think it's weird now. I haven't done it. I plan on doing some on this season, but I haven't done it since all the ring cameras where people can talk back to you through a camera. So I really don't know how that experience is going to feel this time.
[00:56:49] I think calling feels easier, but I actually think it's a little harder than door knocking because people feel more free to be rude over the phone. But I think you can also stuff envelopes. You can participate in state campaigns or local campaigns where they need all kinds of boots on the ground to do volunteering at events or community festivals or to stand behind a table and answer people's questions. But I just want people to do what feels like a little fun and energizing, because I think if you slog through it, you won't do it again. And I want people to do it again. So I think sort of leaning in to what sounds fun and like a good fit for your amount of time and your social energy is always a good way to think about it.
Beth [00:57:30] One thing I would add is that I think our influence is powerful. And so if it's putting a sign in your yard or carrying around a tote bag like I've been, Mrs. Harris for President, or wearing a T-shirt, I think those things present an opportunity to talk to people. It's hard with influence because we can reach a point where people tune us out. They decide they know everything we're going to say. It's not interesting anymore. And they sort of write us off as whatever in the tank for someone. But when you have a chance to really connect with someone and say something that might surprise them, that is very, very powerful. So I guess I just don't want anyone to underestimate the value of having conversations, sending a quick text, seeing someone's Facebook post and saying, "Could we go out for coffee and talk about this?" Because I really do think that that's where the most potential movement can happen for people who haven't decided yet. Okay. Speaking of influence, Taylor Swift has weighed in on the election and we're going to talk about that next.
[00:58:33] Music Interlude.
[00:58:42] The debate happens, everyone in media is ready to do their thoughtful analysis of it. And then there's an Instagram post that makes you wonder if it will matter at all, because Taylor Swift announces in a fairly long form caption that she will vote for Kamala Harris and Tim Walz and why she will make that vote and why she chose to share it with people. So what did you think, Sarah?
Sarah [00:59:10] Accompanied by a picture of her and her cat. My favorite tweet was someone who said the person who yelled out Taylor is endorsed at Kamala during the post-debate rally speech is the modern day Paul Revere just galloping through town. Nicholas was like Taylor Swift endorsed. I was insulted that he told me. I should have felt this or known this or maybe Taylor should have sent me a text first because I was like, no, she hasn't. I would know. And he's like, it just happened. I was like, okay. I think it's great. Somebody reached out and said, I feel like she should have weighed in sooner. That this is what white women do, they wait too long to to say something. But I understand the point that we feel like people should weigh in as soon as possible to provide cover of a certain type. I get that. I just think she's so different. I think you want maximum impact. And I think her saying, "I watched the debate with all of you. I'm not just doing this because I'm a celebrity and you should believe what I say," I thought that was a really smart move on her part.
[01:00:11] To say I was listening to the things that they said. This isn't just me being a celebrity and thinking you need to hear what I think based on vibes and memes. I watched the debate with all of you, and this is what I've decided to do. I thought that was a really smart moment for her to share who she's voting for. And I thought it was important for her to say, this is why I think it's important that someone like me share who I'm voting for. So I really like that. I thought the way it was done was really smart. I love that now Kamala is playing The Man because I love that song. When everyone believes you, what's that like? And I think that that's great. And I'm glad she's we can stop waiting. It's not a surprise. Come on, guys. We knew who she was going to endorse. I'm just glad it's officially here and we could all just be happy. And I hope she does a rally in her concert or something fun.
Beth [01:01:02] I also like the way that she talked about his use of AI and misinformation and the fears that she feels about what can be out there about her and the lack of control she has over it and exercising the control that she does have. I thought there was a little look what you made me do vibe of that paragraph in the caption. I think that Taylor Swift's endorsement probably doesn't move a whole lot of voters as much as it energizes. Again, gets people mobilize, gets them excited and outworking and contributing. I also liked how respectful the Post was. The fact that she said, "I did my research and I've made my choice. Now you get to do the same and it's your choice and your vote." That undercurrent of the handshake translated all the way through to this endorsement where it's like, listen, other people matter. We can still be okay with each other. And I thought that that in a very subtle way, addressed this whole Brittany Mahomes kerfuffle that's been going on.
Sarah [01:02:05] Nicholas said it's not an endorsement. And I thought, I think you're right. I think it's great that she specifically said, this is who I'm voting for. I'm not endorsing her. I'm just telling you who I'm voting for. And I actually think it could move the needle with a very specific subset of new and young low information voters, specifically female voters. It doesn't take very many. I think there are young women who would not have voted, who have decided or been taught that this is not their realm. And Taylor Swift entering the realm and saying, no, you can participate in this, too. This is a place as much as any for you. It's really important. And I think it matters not just because she's the world's biggest celebrity, which I believe her to be, but because it gives cover to some young women and maybe young men, too. I mean, it's just not for the girls as we've established. I totally agree with the Brittany Mahomes thing, that she liked a Trump post. Nobody 'inaudible] she's a Trumper. I don't care how Brittany Mahomes post and I certainly don't care that Taylor Swift hugged her.
[01:03:10] I can't even decide if we should respond to this at all, because I think it might be a little bit of an invention of like Russian interference campaign. I wanted to ask you about Elon Musk's tweet that he would give her a child because she cited a childless cat lady. I'll give you a child. I thought, I am a mature lady. I'm 43. I'm a mature lady who does not lean into drama in her everyday life. So much so that, side note, I watched the first episode of The Secret Lives of Mormon Housewives and thought, man, these are some 20 year olds that need to get some therapy. It wasn't even interesting to me. I just want to prove my chops that I'm a low drama person so that I can say this next thing, which is I kind of just want Killa Trav to beat them up. I really just want Travis to be like, no, you will not get on the internet and talk about giving my girlfriend a child in such a gross, sleazy way. I'm going to punch you in the face. I just a little bit want that in my heart. I think it's fine. I don't think it makes me a better person.
Beth [01:04:17] I don't think it makes you a bad person either.
Sarah [01:04:18] Thank you.
Beth [01:04:19] As you've hopefully heard throughout this episode, I've really been working on my heart in terms of listening to people with whom I disagree and valuing them. The place where I have spectacularly failed at that is with Elon Musk. I have muted him on Twitter. I couldn't do it anymore. Every time I log into X-- sorry, not Twitter. X. Every time I log in, his tweets are right there at the beginning of the timeline. And it has been so outrageously oriented to convincing people to voting for Trump. And I get in my head about what's the campaign finance implication of him doing this. I react to him. He makes me react. And I decided I don't want to react any more when I open this up. I can handle basically the whole of everything else, but something about it coming from him bugs me and I couldn't do it anymore. So I had muted him, and then I see all the screenshots of this tweet. And it is just really something for a woman who is trying to take some power from a situation that reeks of misogyny to be greeted with the ultimate in misogyny. As if the most famous woman in the world and one of the wealthiest would need Elon Musk to protect her cats with his life, to give her a child.
Sarah [01:05:59] That's so gross. The phrasing is nasty.
Beth [01:06:02] It is disgusting in every respect, and again, completely consistent with who he has shown himself to be over the last year. Completely consistent with who JD Vance is, with who Peter Till is, with who everybody involved in this little movement is. It is a deeply misogynist world view, and I am so pleased that we have counterweights like Travis Kelce to that way of thinking about women.
Sarah [01:06:31] Another thing, I understand the irony in being like it's misogynists, her boyfriend should punch him in the face. Guys, I get it. But here's my point. Here's what I just think needs to happen. I just think Ellon needs to be reminded in a visceral way that there are social guidelines and frameworks and that he, in fact, does not yet live on mars and that you don't go around talking about giving women children. It's just nasty. And of course, Taylor Swift can defend herself. [Inaudible]. I just want him to feel that reminder of like, cut it out. The fan fiction in my head is just a little more like, you think you're this version of masculinity and I just need Killa Trav to show up and be like, friend, no. You know what I mean?
Beth [01:07:30] I do.
Sarah [01:07:30] I've really written a whole story in my head and it plays out beautifully, is all I'm saying. Maybe Jason's there too. I think he should be. I made an edit. Jason's there, too. And there's you know that meme where Ben Affleck shows up and he's like, I need you to come with me. I can't tell you what we're going to do and we're going to hurt some people. And Jeremy (what's his name) is like, are you driving or am I driving? That's it. That's what I want with the Kelce brothers going to Elon Musk's house.
Beth [01:07:59] I would even take a Kensington Palace style statement from Taylor and Travis just making it really clear that they don't need anything from Elon Musk ever.
Sarah [01:08:08] Yeah, you’re gross. You're a gross person. Urgh! That's the sound I can't stop making.
Beth [01:08:14] It's so frustrating, to stay in the theme of frustration today, that this man who has so much to contribute to the world chooses to be such a blight.
Sarah [01:08:31] He is a blight. Well, and it's in contrast to her. That was one of my favorite takeaways from the debate. I think it was Charles Blow who said she was light and he was darkness. And that's it. And we're back to what have we been dancing around and dancing with and talking about constantly, which is the gender component of this election. It's all there. It bubbles up all the dang time. And it may make sense because we have a female candidate. It's just played out. I wish we could all just move on. Might be great.
Beth [01:09:03] And, look, your fanfic about this is a good reminder that even in a world that is more inclusive of everyone's experiences, there is still room for people watching the debate. I saw such a cute little video of a man on Twitter this morning saying, "Do I have a crush on a presidential candidate? Madam President, how am I going to tell my wife?" It was adorable. And I saw lots of people talking about, like, I think David Muir. How about David Muir? It's fine. It's fine to do a little bit of that. We don't have to say any comment in this realm objectifies people. We don't. Because we're going to do that because we're humans. There is a line, a big, bold one far away from isn't he or she cute to I will impregnate you. Be happy to.
Sarah [01:10:01] Don't say it like that, Beth. It's bad enough the way he said it.
Beth [01:10:06] I was trying to be clear about what we're talking about here.
Sarah [01:10:07] I'll need some mint tea to my stomach after this.
Beth [01:10:11] Well, all in all, a good day for the Harris campaign.
Sarah [01:10:15] It's a great day. Wading through the bullshit and coming out on top is a more satisfying victory. It's a more fulfilling type of success. That's what I'm saying. It's a real felt fought for victory from our joyful warrior.
Beth [01:10:40] And if you are an undecided voter still, at least watch her work for it. She is working for it. She is working to earn your vote. And I think that is respectable.
Sarah [01:10:54] That's right.
Beth [01:10:55] I'm so glad that you all joined us today. We'd love to hear your thoughts on the debate and anything else that you'd like to weigh in on. We will be back with you on Friday. And till then, have the best week available to you.
[01:11:04] Music Interlude.
Sarah: Pantsuit Politics is produced by Studio D Podcast Production.
Beth: Alise Napp is our Managing Director. Maggie Penton is our Director of Community Engagement.
Sarah: Xander Singh is the composer of our theme music with inspiration from original work by Dante Lima. Beth: Our show is listener-supported. Special thanks to our executive producers. Executive Producers: Martha Bronitsky. Ali Edwards. Janice Elliott. Sarah Greenup. Julie Haller. Tiffany Hasler. Emily Holladay. Katie Johnson. Emily Helen Olson. Barry Kaufman. Katherine Vollmer. Laurie LaDow. Lily McClure. Linda Daniel. The Pentons. Tracey Puthoff. Sarah Ralph. Jeremy Sequoia. Katie Stigers. Karin True. Onica Ulveling. Nick and Alysa Villeli. Amy Whited. Lee Chaix McDonough. Morgan McHugh. Jen Ross. Sabrina Drago. Becca Dorval. Christina Quartararo. Shannon Frawley. Jessica Whitehead. Samantha Chalmers. Crystal Kemp. Megan Hart. The Lebo Family. The Adair Family. Genny Francis. Leighanna Pillgram-Larsen. The Munene Family. Ashley Rene. Michelle Palacios.
Sarah: Jeff Davis. Melinda Johnston. Michelle Wood. Nichole Berklas. Paula Bremer and Tim Miller.