Jan. 6 Security Footage and Political Memoirs

TOPICS DISCUSSED

  • Speaker McCarthy Gives January 6th Footage to Tucker Carlson

  • The State of the Presidential Primary

  • Zibby Owens on Political Memoirs

  • Outside of Politics: Magic Mike Update

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EPISODE RESOURCES

TRANSCRIPT

Sarah [00:00:07] This is Sarah Stewart Holland.  

Beth [00:00:08] And this is Beth Silvers.  

Sarah [00:00:10] Thank you for joining us for Pantsuit Politics.  

Beth [00:00:26] Hello, everyone. Thank you for joining us for a new episode of Pantsuit Politics. It feels like a special episode to me because I feel like I have been away from work for years. It was just a week, but it felt longer. And I want to say thank you again, Sarah, for letting me be away. I was so sick. I don't even know how to tell you how sick I was without it being extremely graphic, so I won't do that. But I will just say I am so thankful to be alive. I am so thankful to be eating food and I am so thankful to be here on Pantsuit Politics again.  

Sarah [00:00:53] And if you want more catch up, we did that on more to say tonight on our premium channel. We caught up on all your thoughts on the teen mental health episode we recorded. We covered a lot of like caught up territory in that episode if you're interested in it.  

Beth [00:01:08] So we're going to get right to new things today. We're going to talk about Speaker of the House Kevin McCarthy's decision to share thousands of hours of footage from the Capitol complex on January six, 2021, exclusively so far with Tucker Carlson. We'll discuss the potential risks and benefits of that choice and his political calculus. Then we will turn to another political calculus. And that is the decision of so many aspiring presidential candidates to release a memoir right before their run. Today, Florida Governor Ron DeSantis has book publishers. He joins a long tradition here. And so, we have called in an expert on books and publishing, Zibby Owens, to tell us why this keeps happening, who these are for, and what types of memoirs actually deserve a place in your TBR stack. Finally, Outside of Politics, Sarah saw the last Magic Mike movie. She's here to give us an update.  

Sarah [00:01:58] I loved it so much. Before we get started, we wanted to remind you that we love spending time with all of you across the country. As this episode releases we’ll be at East Tennessee State University for the Festival of Ideas. In March, we are delighted to be returning to Abilene Christian University. That's the biggest compliment. We have Abilene Christian University, and then we have another company with a virtual event are bringing us back. Being a repeat speaker, I feel like is just the biggest compliment. We hope to see many of you at that or East Tennessee State. And, of course, we'll be in Orlando on April 5th for our live show. You can find more information about attending any of these events in the show notes or on our website: Pantsuitpoliticsshow.com.  

Beth [00:02:38] Next up, we're going to talk about Kevin McCarthy.  

Sarah [00:02:51] I had a visceral reaction when you did that transition. My whole entire mind went, "I don't want to."  

Beth [00:02:55] You don't want to talk about Kevin McCarthy?  

Sarah [00:02:57] I don't ever want to talk about Kevin McCarthy. But January 6, I always want to talk about so...  

Beth [00:03:02] It's a mix here. Kevin McCarthy has provided 41,000 hours of capital and police surveillance video exclusively to Tucker Carlson. That is the sticking point for me. Be exclusively to Tucker Carlson. It's reported that he did this as part of some deals he cut to secure enough Republican votes to become speaker. Democrats are not pleased. Members of the January six committee are not pleased. The Capitol Police have said this is not our call. When the congressional leadership says we do something like this, we do it. That's the end of it. The Justice Department has been fighting to protect a lot of this footage. So, it's being used in criminal trials of rioters from January six. And then media companies will come in and say, we would like the things that were used in this trial, please, and thank you. And so pursuant to court order, some of that has gotten out, but not all of it because the Justice Department says there is a security risk in having all of this footage out in the public sphere.  

Sarah [00:04:02] And even members of the far-right wing are unhappy about it because they want it to be to everyone, not just Tucker Carlson. Media organizations are now suing for full access to the footage. McCarthy says, "I'm just being transparent." But I think the best analysis came from Luke Broadwater and Jonathan Swan, who said basically he's outsourcing the investigation to Tucker Carlson and he's even fundraising off of it. And he said, "I promised I would give you the truth regarding January 6 and now I am delivering."  

Beth [00:04:32] I liked that analysis from Broadwater and Swan too because Kevin McCarthy knows it is a political loser to have a new January six investigation being done in Congress. To say we didn't like what the January 6 committee did, we're going to do our own thing, is a very bad idea for him. The middle of the country is not interested in that, but he has this base that won't let it go and that wants a re-litigation on their terms. And who better to lead that than Tucker Carlson? What bugs me about this, I don't know on the security side. I don't have the information to be able to make a cool, calculated assessment. I don't have the expertise. Even if I had the information, I don't have the expertise to know. But even if everyone agreed that all of this footage is safe to be in the public domain, releasing it exclusively to a person whose own channel says you are an opinion show, not a news show makes no sense to me. And to do it at the same time that we're all receiving this information from another court battle showing that this exact person, along with his colleagues, were spinning the narrative they thought their audience want. Not the one they even personally believed was true. That's where I am lost in his political calculus. If you're going to put it all out there, just put it all out there to everybody.  

Sarah [00:05:55] Agreed. If you have not taken a journey through the text messages released as a result of the Dominion defamation case, I highly recommend it. It's not going to improve your opinion of Tucker Carlson. I didn't think mine could get any lower. I was wrong. It's so craven, at which point he's like texting Sean Hannity about Fox News stock prices. It's just the cravenness. And I'm sure he will bring that exact cravenness to this. He's going to do what he always does, right? He's going to find these tiny little moments and he's going to blow them up and see-- anybody with common sense, see what they're keeping. Like, I could write this. I could write what he's going to do with this footage at this point. And still, I don't think it's going to matter. I think January six is a loser for them. I don't care who's talking about it. I don't care who's doing the sourcing or the footage splicing or the editorializing. I think January 6th is a loser. Go look at the 2022 midterm results if you think otherwise. McCarthy's political calculus is dumbfounding to me about 70% of the time and this is just one more incident.  

Beth [00:07:06] I think what's difficult is that January six is a loser for everybody. Nobody wants to talk about it anymore. And I say this as a person who watched every hearing and we read every word of the report together in our community because we think it's that important, and I do. But if I were advising someone who's trying to build a political future for themselves or even just rally support around something that they think is important, January six would not be the place that I spent a bunch of time and attention. It doesn't sound good for Democrats to be like, this is a massive security risk. And Chuck Schumer's out there saying this is the biggest exposure to risk since 9/11. Well, that as a political statement, I'm sorry, is not helpful. I don't know the truth of it, but politically, that's not a good statement. You need to project confidence. I wish he hadn't done this. I think it's irresponsible and it adds to the burden on the people who protect the Capitol complex. That's enough, right? And from the Republican side, this has been looked at. We're moving on. We're focused on the things that are important to Americans right now. Nobody wants to just rehash this endlessly except Tucker's audience-- and fine, but at least allow other organizations to fact check it as it's going.  

Sarah [00:08:22] So interesting to me, I feel pretty confident saying that Tucker Carlson and Kevin McCarthy have not read the January six report. They have not taken in the evidence in the same way you and I have and so many members of our community have, because if they had, they would not do this. But they do what we all do, right? They don't want to take in something that makes them feel bad and wrong, and they don't have enough people in their orbit telling them the hard truth. And this decision is such evidence of that to me. Like, you guys think because you don't understand it, that this is just going to be a jackpot of hard right ire. And it will be to a certain extent. Again, I have no doubt he will be able to splice and take little pieces of this, but I still think the net effect is a loss.  

Beth [00:09:15] Well, you can see that even in reading his transcripts, which I did this morning. I went back and read the transcript right after Kevin McCarthy won the speakership. And Tucker does one of his monologues about how Kevin is moving to make this footage available. And he goes on and on about all of the questions that he has, especially concerning the arguments the Justice Department has made for keeping some of this footage out of the public domain. One of the big points that he makes is that in congressional testimony, people have been asked if some of the folks there on January six were trained instigators of violence. And he kind of focuses in on the fact that some of this was coordinated. Well, yes, friend. There's a whole appendix to the January six report explaining exactly who that was. The Proud Boys.  

Sarah [00:10:05] Yeah. And you're not going to like the answer.  

Beth [00:10:06] You're not going to like the answer. I know that we're supposed to be walking down this Antifa path, but there is a bunch of evidence that, of course, some of this was planned by trained professionals.  

Sarah [00:10:20] And not just evidence, we now have convictions.  

Beth [00:10:23] I think you're right that he will do a lot of hand-waving and sleight of hand that he does know better than. I'm not convinced that he hasn't done enough research to know the truth of what happened here versus what he's saying. But everybody needs this footage so they can put it in context. Not that anyone who loves Tucker Carlson is going to be like, "Oh, well, I did watch the full 30 minutes from the New York Times website and I feel differently now." That's not the point. The point is that in the grander perspective, we can see the truth and hold on to it as tightly as we can. And if he blows open something that we should have known before and didn't and it happens to be credible, then let that be out among everyone too.  

Sarah [00:11:06] Whatever happens, I'm just not that freaked out by this. I agree that you don't have the security expertise to know if those concerns are well-founded or not. I trust the people who do. But politically, I just think the January 6 committee did such excellent work that they have really solidified the narrative at this point, particularly with the middle America that doesn't pay that close attention to politics. They did the work. They got in people's brains. They did it in a very well-produced way. They sort of got the first take, which is often the most important take. And so, I'm not super worried about however he splices and dices this. I really think the negative impact will be felt more on the right politically than anywhere else.  

Beth [00:11:53] Yeah, I don't want to ever be afraid of the full truth, and I do think the January six committee did an excellent job and I think it was a very tightly controlled telling of particular stories about that day. And there are a lot more stories to be told. If it's safe for this to be out there, I'm interested in all of it. I don't think many people are-- I am. But I want it to come through lots of journalists at lots of different outlets doing real due diligence and fact checking each other in the process. Because Kevin says sunshine lets everybody make their own judgment. There has to be sunshine for real, not just a flashlight over here in one corner of the media ecosystem. We're going to take a quick break and then we're going to talk about more political machinations this time from people looking to be president of the United States. Sarah, did you see over the weekend that the first lady made it pretty clear that Joe Biden's running again?  

Sarah [00:12:59] Yeah, but Politico also had a story that it's just taking so long, it's leaving people in this space where they're like, wait, is he actually going to run? Does that protest too much? It sure is taking a long time. I thought for sure we'd have an announcement in February, and now they're saying April.  

Beth [00:13:17] April seems really late.  

Sarah [00:13:20] Yeah. 

Beth [00:13:21] It holds up everything. Did you read the reporting about where the Democratic National Convention is going to be? It said that we're on Biden time right now. Everybody's just waiting to see what Biden wants. And Atlanta's lobbying the Biden team and Chicago's lobbying, and New York is lobbying. Everybody wants to host it. And they're just kind of waiting to see where Biden wants it. And I thought, well, what if he doesn't run? Then I don't know. It's a really interesting thing. So, we have that happening on the Democratic side of the aisle. On the Republican side of the aisle, we now have three declared candidates, former President Donald Trump, former U.N. ambassador and South Carolina Governor Nikki Haley, and entrepreneur Vivek Ramaswamy, who is I think originally from Cincinnati. I don't know much about him. I am going to learn more. I'm sure we all will. And we have reports of like a gazillion Republican candidates in the wings, as well as Marianne Williamson on the Democratic side deciding that she's going to run whether Biden is or not.  

Sarah [00:14:14] I saw that this morning she'll make a run of it. Very interesting.  

Beth [00:14:18] Well, she's a perfect segue into our conversation today because she is an author. Marianne Williamson is known to lots and lots of people across the globe as kind of a spiritual adviser through her writing. Sarah, I went to Barnes Noble with my girls a couple of weeks ago and I walked over to the political section, which is not something I do very often. It was a weird experience. I kept looking at the shelves thinking, "Who is all of this for?".  

Sarah [00:14:46] Yeah, I don't get it.  

Beth [00:14:46] It's all extremely partisan, and most of it is like just candidate memoir to set up my run. And I thought, I don't understand what this is about. I did buy some books. I found in the middle of all of that American Cartel, which I am really enjoying, about the opioid epidemic and a couple of other things. So, it wasn't a total loss, but you had to really look among the titles for something other than just like straight up personal propaganda.  

Sarah [00:15:17] Well, and as we mentioned here at the opening of the show, the main Republican candidate who's not yet a candidate but now definitely is going to be a candidate because he's releasing this book, Ron DeSantis. His second book, The Courage to Be Free, it sounds like free to be you and me to me. I know that's not the energy inside the book, but that's what the title reminds me of. Hilariously described as a mechanical try hard in the New York Times review. I did have a thought since we've had this conversation with Zibby, I wonder if a lot of these memoirs are just financially important to the candidates. You know what I mean? Like, especially if you have another job you're leaving to run, you don't make a lot as a public servant anyway and there's enormous cost and expense with running for office. I wonder if there's just a financial calculus, like, I just need this advance, so I'll just crank out one of these books and get a little padding financially.  

Beth [00:16:14] Well, crank out is part of the description. I love that review from Jennifer Xilai [sp] in The Times. She said that this memoir reads like ChatGPT wrote it.  

Sarah [00:16:24] Maybe it did.  

Beth [00:16:25] So given that possibility, that ChatGPT could start cranking out political memoirs because they are so rote, as Sarah said, we wanted to talk to Zibby Owens.  

Sarah [00:16:37] A podcaster, author, CEO and mother of four, named New York City's most powerful book-fluencer Vulture, Zibby founded Zibby Media, which includes Zibby Books, a publishing home for fiction and memoir. Zibby Mag, a literary lifestyle destination, and Zibby Audio, a podcast network which includes her own award-winning daily show: Moms Don't Have Time to Read Books. And if that's not enough, she is the author of her own memoir, Bookends: A Memoir of Love, Loss and Literature. Zibby, I didn't know if I knew anybody who loved books more than me, but I think you might win. I'm a child of a librarian. It goes back deep. 

Zibby Owens [00:17:10] Oh, okay. Well, maybe you win by association or something.  

Sarah [00:17:14] Well, I'm an only child, so they were my only friends there for a while there. But I love your devotion to books. So, thank you so much for coming on Pantsuit Politics today.  

Zibby Owens [00:17:22] Thanks so much for having me. It's my pleasure.  

Sarah [00:17:24] I love memoirs. You obviously love memoirs. And I love politics, but I don't read a lot of political memoirs because-- let me say this as kindly as I can-- they are boring. A lot of them are very, very boring. I do look around at these tables of candidate memoirs and I'm, like, why is the industry churning out these memoirs that so many candidates are clearly just checking off a list?  

Zibby Owens [00:17:48] I mean, don't you think that people can see through that a little bit too?  

Sarah [00:17:52] Yeah, so why are we still making them? I'm so intrigued.  

Zibby Owens [00:17:55] It's like an enhanced brochure.  

Sarah [00:17:58] Yes. That is the perfect description.  

Zibby Owens [00:18:00] Why are people doing them? Because maybe some people buy them, you know? People know who they are. Or probably not for the right reasons necessarily.  

Sarah [00:18:07] Or do you think people feel good about buying them? And they're, like, "I am interested in this person; I'ma buy them." And then they never read them. I would love to know the percentage of people who buy those types of political memoirs and ever read them.  

Zibby Owens [00:18:16] I bet there's a way to figure that out by all the Kindle analysis. If the percent read is lower on political memoirs than other forms of memoir.  

Beth [00:18:25] Well, I am really intrigued by how you started your own publishing company, and it seems like you've done that because you understand that publishing is bananas. I wonder when you look at this question from that lens of the publisher perspective, what's the incentive for publishers to keep cranking these out? Do you think there's just a built-in floor on these books because packs are buying them to get people off the charts or what are we trying to create here, I guess, from an industry perspective?  

Zibby Owens [00:18:53] I think from the most basic, the publishers producing them are relying on those sales. If you're voting, there are only two options. So, half the people perhaps-- actually that's not true. I was going to say half would probably buy the book and the other half would not. But that's still a lot of people in a given state. You can probably get really specific in your marketing if it's a local candidate. You could blanket Florida, for example. You could do a really targeted campaign. And so, I think the appeal is anybody with a name that has a platform and because the candidate is likely spending all sorts of money on their own campaigns, they're going to throw that book right in there as one of their things. So, it's almost like the publishers could ride on the coattails of the marketing spend for the campaign.  

Sarah [00:19:38] That's such a good point. So much of the publishing industry is about your platform and how many people are going to automatically just buy whatever you produce because they follow you. And you're right, candidates have that sort of inherently built in. That's such a good point. 

Zibby Owens [00:19:51] Yeah. And they're trying so hard to grow it and build it and everything.  

Sarah [00:19:54] Yeah, that makes a lot of sense to me. Well, I think some of the best political memoirs, that I'm putting that in quotation marks, are the ones that don't mean to be. Like I'm hearing such amazing things about Bono's memoir that I'm definitely adding it to my TBR list. And I look back at memoirs I've read like Danny Shapiro's memoir, Inheritance, or Tara Westover's Educated and these are authors, they're telling personal stories with really big political implications. And I think you see even like a bipartisanship in the success of these memoirs. Why do you think that is?  

Zibby Owens [00:20:30] Isn't it true that J.D. Vance just won the Senate seat as the author of the memoir Hillbilly Elegy. I think to develop the platform, some people do it backwards, right? Unlike more canned candidate stump speeches made into books, people finally have a way to communicate a lot of their thoughts and feelings, and maybe they haven't even refined it as much until they get it on paper and they realize it has legs or other people respond to it. And there's this groundswell of support. I think it's interesting what ends up coming out of people's memoirs and if they even intended it that way.  

Sarah [00:21:03] That's so interesting. Hillbilly Elegy, what a fascinating case study in political memoirs. He had a political message. I don't think it was a partisan message, but I think it was a political message. And maybe that's the difference we're talking about. You have a political undercurrent to so many of these stories like Tara Westover's Educated, but you don't have a partisan one if you're picking up a candidate biography, right? But J.D. Vance, such a fascinating case study because I think he got swept up and he-- Beth has definitely some theories about what went down with J.D Vance's memoir and why that led to his candidacy. But, look, I think you see some of the things with Dreams of my Father and Barack Obama. You're writing your story. You're pouring your heart into it. And the way people react to it can send you on sort of a political path.  

Zibby Owens [00:21:52] It's true. I think a lot of the memoirs where people write about growing up in poverty or-- I mean, think about even Nomadland, that was not a political memoir, but it had so many connotations of the economy and the service economy and how hard it is to make wages and homelessness. And Jeannette Walls-- and all of the memoirs raise our awareness. Even things like Sillitoe. Or-- and I know it's not a memoir-- but American Dirt or things like that where you're just like shining a light and putting a magnifying glass on an issue and then who knows what will happen, right?  

Beth [00:22:31] Well, I think about Hillbilly Elegy and J.D. Vance and how it was a compelling book. Whatever you think of his theory of the case in Appalachia, it was compelling in part because like Educated or Inheritance, it was written kind of outside of the political hall of mirrors. And then I think his transformation has come from stepping into that hall of mirrors. And I think that's why a lot of the memoirs written by people who are already in politics are so boring because they're in there. And so, it's not about writing the most honest thing you can. It's about writing the thing that reflects what you want to be bounced around. And that has me thinking about the genre that I'm currently stuck in. Zibby, I have a problem. I read all of the Trump retrospectives. All of them. I can't get out of it.  

Zibby Owens [00:23:19] No.  

Beth [00:23:21] I do. And I'm realizing more and more that I think part of what keeps me coming back to them is that even though they are supposed to often be like journalistic accounts of what happened, they are reporter’s memoirs of trying to survive this period as reporters. And in some respects, I think I don't know what I'm reading right now. I don't know if this is self-help or if this is history, but it's kind of interesting. I feel like there's a new genre being created around Trump retrospectives because everybody is really working some stuff out through writing them. I wonder if you've read any or if you've heard anyone talk about these books and you have any thoughts on that sort of little sub niche.  

Zibby Owens [00:24:04] That is so funny. I haven't read those in particular, but there is a memoir by Katy Tur called Rough Draft. She talks about her experience on that campaign trail. I don't know if that would cut it in your classification.  

Sarah [00:24:18] Yeah, definitely. That's in the niche.  

Zibby Owens [00:24:19] Well, it is really interesting. And people have to examine what happened and be, like, what was that like? So, I think just like with anything, when you're taking stock, it's like after a hurricane and seeing what you have left and what's scattered around the yard and putting it all back in a pile. I think it's like a part of almost like the healing process, if you will.  

Sarah [00:24:39] No, I think that's true. And I think you've read that even in some of the staff memoirs. And I think like the Venn diagram of the journalistic retrospectives of the politicians who get it right in their memoirs like Barack Obama, that's the overlap. It's where they're doing exactly what you're describing. They’re trying to put everything back. And those moments of real vulnerability and honesty like that moment-- I will never stop thinking about that moment in A Promised Land where Barack Obama says, "Why was I doing this? I was making Michelle miserable. Like, was I a megalomaniac?" When he just was like, wait, why was I doing that? Whatever you're writing about politics, your poverty stricken childhood, whatever it is, if you have that vulnerability to say, like, this is what we missed. And that's what I really appreciate from the journalists. And you're getting that a lot in Maggie. I'm reading The Confidence Man, Maggie Haberman's book right now. I love it when she shows up in the book where she says This is what I was writing about. This is what we were missing at the time. This is what we couldn't see through. It's a real skill as an author to be able to do that. As you look at memoirs, especially for your publishing, how do you think about that skill? Do you find a common element that authors bring when they're able to do that, no matter whatever their job or their past is?  

Zibby Owens [00:25:59] Well, you have to have that level of introspection; otherwise, it's just a recounting of facts that would not be interesting. It's the ultimate behind the scenes is really what it is. They're telling you the story from the outside, but then giving you the ultimate insider perspective, which is what was going on in their heads. It's more than just like what the room looks like. So, yes, I think adding that layer of introspection and awareness into your life's history is absolutely essential. And then to make it written beautifully is the next hurdle.  

Sarah [00:26:30] Word. Ain't that the truth.  

Beth [00:26:32] We had Amy McGrath on our show several times. She ran for Senate in Kentucky, and has a really compelling life story and wrote about it in a really excellent memoir. And I asked her when we were talking about her book, how does it feel to have written a memoir when you have so much life ahead of you? And I wonder the same thing for you. I mean, you wrote a book called Bookends, and you clearly have so much in front of you. And I wonder how you think about bracketing a period of your life in this way.  

Zibby Owens [00:27:01] Well, I think there's a common misperception of memoir being, like, this is my life's work and here I am on my day bed dyslectic. I think today's memoirs are much more about a certain period of time or a certain experience. It could be like in mine, a period of time mostly up till now, but particularly the last 20 years of my life, from a formative loss until now. But others that are more about a moment in time, like there's one by Claire Nelson about how she fell off and had to survive off the side of a mountain. There are things like that that are sensational and dramatic, but there are others that really address getting through something. And those are the memoirs that appeal the most to me. Memoirs that show us what it was you had to overcome, whether it's a recovery memoir, drugs or alcohol or some other pain or chronic illness or whatever, and how you get through because life is constantly throwing all these challenges in our way. And, honestly, the only way through is through most of the time. So, these books, I think, give us roadmaps on how to navigate whatever hurdles get put in our way.  

Beth [00:28:19] Knowing that, if you were to advise an aspiring presidential candidate on their memoir writing process, what would you say?  

Zibby Owens [00:28:27] Oh, my gosh. I would say go to do something else. Seriously. Honestly, I would like to read a memoir by a political candidate that has nothing to do with politics and is more like about their first love or the time their mom was sick or a defining moment in high school. Or, I don't know, they sound more like essays, but a period of time where they are not. There is this show on TV. I don't know if you remember, it is called Jack and Bobby, a fictionalized version of what John F Kennedy and Robert Kennedy's childhoods could have been like.  

Sarah [00:29:01] I do remember that vaguely.  

Zibby Owens [00:29:03] I think I was the only one who watched it. It was so interesting because it's like they weren't always political people. So, what is almost like the fictionalized story? What's the heart and soul of you before you are the person you're trying to create? Because you just have to connect authentically to people. And if candidates would allow you to do that, that would be the most refreshing, I think, of all.  

Sarah [00:29:27] Well, I think those fictionalized accounts are so interesting. I worked for Hillary Clinton. I adore her. And also, I thought Rodham was so interesting and such an interesting thought experiment, and such a fascinating way for me to think about this person I have like who's been in my life, who I've thought about so much. I think you're right. Like those moments where they can kind of scratch at it, even a novelist can do that, I think is really, really, really interesting. Really interesting. I have to ask you. We're here talking about memoirs and I feel like you can't talk about memoirs right now without talking about the meteorite that was, I'm Glad My Mom Died by Jeanette McCurdy. I feel like it's literally like a bomb inside the genre that went off because it was just such a hit and it's phenomenal. I read it in one day. So, I wonder as you were looking and you think about memoir so much, what you think about that one?  

Zibby Owens [00:30:18] No, I really love that one. I had Jeanette on my podcast. It was great. I was not even going to have her on the podcast and I happened to mention to my teenage daughter I was like, "Hey, have you heard of this woman, Jeanette McCurdy?" And she's like, "Yes, you have to have her on." I'm so glad she said that. And then, of course, I read it and it was so interesting. I loved the parts about navigating what seems like such a life that everyone else would covet, and seeing the dark side. I love all types of books where it's not what it looks like. It's not as easy or as nice as it seems this is really what was going on. And let me be totally blunt, like, I love that. I think it was the fact that she was so able to be completely authentic and say the things that might not make her sound good or that she might be afraid to say. And those are the things that everybody else has in their heads. And it might not make them feel good to say, but then they can connect. It's like sanctioned connection.  

Sarah [00:31:14] Yeah, well, it makes me sad because I think that lightning in a bottle she captured, which is living that child star existence, a very small percentage of people live that understand. I think it's what Tara Westover captured that. I also stayed up till 3 a.m. finishing her book, that life that nobody understands. And what I wish I could say to candidates is you are doing that. Running for office-- as I've run for office-- that's an experience not a lot of people get. And if you would just be honest about what it's like, we've had Jason Kander on the podcast several times and he has some real vulnerability and is honest about sort of the ego work of being in politics. And that is so engaging. And I wish more candidates would just lean into that and say, like, "This is a unique experience not a lot of people get, and I'm just going to share openly and honest about it in this memoir." What do you say we send out a memo, ladies? I feel like we'd fixed it. If we could just get it in the hands of all these candidates, it'll be okay.  

Zibby Owens [00:32:10] Let's do that.  

Beth [00:32:11] A bunch of better books.  

Sarah [00:32:12] Much better books.  

Beth [00:32:14] Zibby, thank you so much for spending time with us. It was such a treat to meet you. And I love that you are thinking about an author-centered approach to getting more good work in the world. I have a feeling it will bear such excellent fruit. So excited to see what's next.  

Zibby Owens [00:32:29] Thank you. I'm excited too. Thanks for having me.  

Sarah [00:32:31] Yes.  

Beth [00:32:42] We always end the show talking about what's on our minds Outside of Politics. Over to you, Sarah, with an important pop culture update.  

Sarah [00:32:49] I saw the last Magic Mike movie this weekend.  

Beth [00:32:51] How was it? Did it live up to your expectations? I know how you feel about this franchise. 

Sarah [00:32:55] Yeah, this is a [inaudible] I'm very dedicated to you guys, and I think it was a really good balance. The first Magic Mike for anybody who hasn't seen it is Channing Tatum's sort of biographical telling of his time as a stripper in Orlando. The first one is very story driven. Not a lot of fan service. I mean, you do get to see Channing Tatum dance, but the second one was a lot of fan service and maybe not that much plot. And they really balanced it this time. It was a good amount of plot, a good amount of dancing, a good amount of Channing Tatum just being ridiculously hot and sexy and funny. I love him so, so much. And I just think these movies are such an escape that everyone needs. And I highly recommend going to see it with your girlfriends. Don't drag the men in your life to this movie. They'll enjoy it, I guess. But there are a lot of men in the movie theater who stayed on their phones the whole time. I'm like, why do these people make their men come to this movie? That's not necessary. I went with my friend Elizabeth, who I saw the first Magic Mike movie with. And it's hilarious because we sat down at TGI Friday's that existed in our town at the time and ordered two cotton candy cosmos, and the bartender set them in front of us and said, "What time is Magic Mike?" So, it was fun 13 years later to go back with her. It was so fun.  

Beth [00:34:14] That feels to me like the experience I had when Chad texted me a reel from Kim Holderness the other day about the suburban mom’s starter kit. That was me. The lifestyle sneakers that you can't even run in, the Lululemon crossbody, the Stanley Cup and then another beverage just because... It was an attack.  

Sarah [00:34:35] But I highly recommend. I have not convinced you to watch a single Magic Mike movie, but I'm not going to give up.  

Beth [00:34:39] You have. I just haven't been in the mood for it. I feel like there's going to be a day when that is what I needs and it's going to be there for me, shiny and new. But I just haven't kind of been in a space for it. I did watch a lot of TV last week because I had no energy for anything else. So, I watched Big Little Lies both seasons from HBO because I had read the book and really liked it. Here is my objection to both Big Little Lies and Nine Perfect Strangers. Liane Moriarty writes these delightful books in Australia, and part of what makes them delightful is that they are in Australia. And then we make the TV shows and we put it in California. And I don't appreciate it. Not one bit.  

Sarah [00:35:22] No, I agree. I agree. This is probably a good Segway as we're talking about pop culture and TV, to make the exciting announcement that we are going to do episode recaps of Succession final season. Did you see the news?  

Beth [00:35:37] I did. I think it's a good call.  

Sarah [00:35:37] I'm tired of being jerked around about this merger, you guys. I'm done. I love all of you, but let's make up our mind. And if we can't continue the show outside of the context of this, then that's fine. Let's end the show. I'm happy with that. But we'll be doing that on our premium channels. And I'm so excited.  

Beth [00:35:52] I think it's going to be very fun. We would love for you to join us there any time. It's a wonderful community of people who discuss our episodes. We love discussing our episodes with you. We talked about your word of the year blessing. Sarah, before we go I'd like to focus on mine for a second. My word was cheers. Just a lot of celebration. Not had a lot to celebrate myself personally over the last week. But I would like to celebrate my friend Brian who has been on Pantsuit Politics before talking about his work. Brian has championed a smart living project through his organization, glad that enables people with disabilities to live independently through the use of technology. And he got to go to Vienna this week to accept the Zero Project Award from the United Nations. He got to go to the United Nations to get an award for his work, and I am so proud of him and so excited for him and so thrilled that I feel like we scooped that here at Pantsuit Politics.  

Sarah [00:36:44] There you go.  

Beth [00:36:45] So, cheers to Brian. Cheers to all of you. Thank you for being here. Thank you for joining us. We'll be back in your ears on Friday. Until then, have the best week available to you.  

Beth [00:37:09] Pantsuit Politics is produced by Studio D Podcast Production. Alise Napp is our managing director.  

Sarah [00:37:14] Maggie Penton is our community engagement manager. Dante Lima is the composer and performer of our theme music.  

Beth [00:37:20] Our show is listener-supported. Special thanks to our executive producers. 

Executive Producers Martha Bronitsky. Ali Edwards. Janice Elliott. Sarah Greenup. Julie Haller. Helen Handley. Tiffany Hasler. Emily Holladay. Katie Johnson. Katina Zuganelis Kasling. Barry Kaufman. Molly Kohrs. Katherine Vollmer. Laurie LaDow. Lily McClure. Linda Daniel. Emily Neesley. Tawni Peterson. Tracey Puthoff. Sarah Ralph. Jeremy Sequoia. Katie Stigers. Karin True. Onica Ulveling. Nick and Alysa Villeli. Amy Whited. Emily Helen Olson. Lee Chaix McDonough. Morgan McHugh.   

Beth Jeff Davis. Melinda Johnston. Michelle Wood. Joshua Allen. Nichole Berklas. Paula Bremer and Tim Miller.     

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