The State of the Union is Optimistic

TOPICS DISCUSSED

  • Earthquake in Türkiye and Syria

  • The State of the Union

  • Outside of Politics: Maryville College

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EPISODE RESOURCES

TRANSCRIPT

230210_PP_SOTU_Final.mp3

Sarah [00:00:07] This is Sarah Stewart Holland.  

Beth [00:00:08] And this is Beth Silvers.  

Sarah [00:00:10] Thank you for joining us for Pantsuit Politics. Thank you for joining us here at Pantsuit Politics, where we try to take a different approach to the news. Today's show is all about President Biden's State of the Union address. And Outside of Politics, we're going to talk about our time this week in Maryville College. And if you didn't get to join us there but are in the east Tennessee area, we have great news.  

Beth [00:00:44] We've been invited to participate in the Festival of Ideas, a term we both love, at East Tennessee State University on Tuesday, February 28. That's less than two weeks from now. There are no tickets required. Everyone is welcome to attend. We'll share some more details about the festival in the show notes. We would love to see you there.  

Sarah [00:01:04] And of course, don't forget, we are going to be doing a live show in Orlando, Florida, on Wednesday, April 5th. You can get tickets for that at the link in the show notes.  

Beth [00:01:14] Next up, our thoughts on the State of the Union.  

Sarah [00:01:25] Before we talk about the state of the United States, our hearts and minds have been so occupied this week with the states of Syria and Turkey. As most of you know, a terrible earthquake hit earlier this week and the aftershocks were as bad or worse. The satellite imagery that has been coming out showing the before and after of these areas of the world have been shocking. And the death toll is really, really hard to take in. I've said this multiple times on the News Brief this week as we've continued to report on this tragedy, that the very first day I opened my phone and it said 1600 deaths my hand went to my mouth and I just stood there. And now we are looking at a number that is over 19,000 people lost in the middle of the night. This earthquake came in the middle of the night. And it is cold and freezing in that part of the world right now. Syria has been struggling for almost a decade with a civil war that has obliterated their infrastructure, and the earthquake took out much of what was left. And it is so incredibly heartbreaking.  

Beth [00:02:49] We've talked about how difficult it is to take in something that's heartbreaking and not have an action step. Because you always want an action step. And I think Sarah's really wisely pointed out that sometimes the action is to just be really, really sad. The one other suggestion that we have is if you are able to give blood, there is so much blood needed to respond for the survivors of this earthquake and that will deplete supplies for everyone else who needs blood. There is almost always a shortage of blood for the demand out there. So, if that's something you're capable of doing, doing that with these folks in your heart would be a nice step this week.  

Sarah [00:03:26] So with awareness and acknowledgment of that heartbreak, we are going to turn now to talk about Joe Biden's second State of the Union address before Congress. Beth, do you want to clear the air about how you feel about the State of the Union generally before we get started?  

Beth [00:03:40] I hate the State of the Union. I think the State of the Union is so dumb. I wish we would go back to the president just writing to Congress about how things are going. I think there's a lot of work to be done. I think it's all very silly. So, yes, I'm a big boo. Two thumbs down. Do not recommend State of the Union.  

Sarah [00:03:58] And yet I found this one very effective.  

Beth [00:04:01] Yeah, I thought it was a good one.  

Sarah [00:04:02] I thought it was one of the better ones we've had in the last 10 years. I thought he nailed it. I'm just going to be honest. Now, we're going to break it down into segments. And I think the one reason this State of the Union was particularly effective is because he had a strong opener. He has four pieces of amazing legislation that passed through the last Congress, many with bipartisan support. And so, he could just stand up there and talk about what a good job they've done. And he did. And it was like a pretty normal bipartisan clapping situation.  

Beth [00:04:37] Well, I would like to go even earlier than the bipartisan legislation and say that he opened this in the most Joe Biden way possible by just saying hello to everyone.  

Sarah [00:04:48] He loves to do that.  

Beth [00:04:49] Hello and thank you and congrats to everyone. I will never forget when we saw him speak in New Hampshire on the campaign trail at a time when his campaign seemed absolutely dead. He spent a good 10 minutes thanking people individually, by name, who were just party people in New Hampshire. And it was super boring if you don't know those people, but you can tell that that's what he gets jazzed about. He just likes people and he likes the glad handing and he likes the Congress. And so, I actually this time enjoyed hearing him say congrats to Kevin McCarthy. Don't want to ruin your reputation, but I look forward to working together.  

President Biden [00:05:26] Speaker, I don't want to ruin your reputation, but I look forward to working with you. [Laughter.] 

Beth [00:05:30] I like seeing him acknowledge Nancy Pelosi, celebrate Kim Jeffries, say hello to Mitch McConnell who didn't stand up to be recognized. I just thought this feels true to him. And there's something nice about the fact that it's clunky and dull but true to him that set a good tone for the evening.  

Sarah [00:05:51] Yeah. I feel like Joe Biden's entire vibe right now is, like, I dare you not to like me. Try. Try your hardest not to find me likable no matter how you feel about my policies. Please, I dare you. So, he did the greeting and then he dove into the CHIPS Act and the Infrastructure Act and the Inflation Reduction Act, which did not pass with bipartisan support. Worth noting. But he just has a lot of victories to celebrate at the beginning of the second State of the Union, and I don't begrudge him one minute of celebrating them.  

Beth [00:06:22] And we've talked before about how the first 15 minutes or so of the State of the Union is the important part because if people watch, they're going to watch for a few minutes and then they're going to change the channel. And I thought he made the most of those opening minutes by talking about things that it was really difficult for Republicans not to clap for too since many of them were part of it. A super feel-good America is back baby, let's have a bunch of jobs and a rip-roaring economy kind of message. I thought it was a very smart way to begin.  

Sarah [00:06:55] Well, and if you are Joe Biden, who ran in 2020 with the promise of bipartisan progress in Congress, then you definitely stand up and say in your second State of the Union, I did what I promised to do. I got legislation passed that will affect every American's life.  

President Biden [00:07:16] When I came to office, most assure that bipartisanship assumed was impossible. I never believed it. That's why a year ago I offered a unity agenda to the nation as I stood here. We made real progress together. We passed a law making it easy for doctors to prescribe effective treatments for opioid addiction. We passed the gun safety law making historic investments in mental health. We launched the ARPA-H drive for breakthrough in the fight against cancer, Alzheimer's, and diabetes and so much more. [Applause.] We passed the Heath Robinson Pact Act, named after the late Iraq war veteran whose story about exposure to toxic burn pits I shared here last year. [Applause.]  

Sarah [00:08:02] And I thought the focus on those sort of kitchen table issues again was smart, was what Americans, particularly with the results of the midterm elections, said that they want. They care about inflation. They care about the economy. And that's not new to the midterms. That's a pretty consistent message from Americans. And so, he was like, okay, I did it. I worked on the CHIPS Act. You guys didn't like what happened during the pandemic when things got shut down and we felt dependent on foreign suppliers, so I did it. And I made some of our allies mad. He was like, not everybody agrees with me on this. We're going to make America. But you know who does agree with him on that? Americans. And that's who votes for him. So, he was just like on that message. On that message. On that message.  

Beth [00:08:45] Now, you know that one of my particular grievances with the State of the Union is the use of human beings as props. I do not like the guest and I do not like the shout outs. But I did really love the bridge builder form Cincinnati.  

Sarah [00:08:59] I love that lady. I love her. 

Beth [00:09:00] And how he's like she can't wait to be 10 stories in the air working on this bridge. God love her. That made me so happy.  

Sarah [00:09:06] First of all, yeah, because that's a different kind of thing because she's excited.  

Beth [00:09:10] It is.  

Sarah [00:09:10] It's not where like trotting somebody out because of their tragedy. It was like look at this American who's so excited we did this and is ready to get to work. I wondered how you felt about that section of your bridge getting such focus.  

Beth [00:09:23] Well, listen, that bridge needs focus. That is the bridge that I drove every day for 11 years to and from work and was pretty convinced I would perish on because it's in such bad shape. And I am delighted that we are finally-- and he's right. The way he talked about it was exactly accurate. We are finally doing something. This has been a total cluster politically because it bridges Kentucky to Ohio, so nobody's really responsible for it. And this is a place where you need the federal government to say, okay, this literally connects two states. It is one of the most important stretches of interstate in the country for moving goods around the country. And so, I'm thrilled. And I loved the little dig. Like, people didn't vote for this-- that's all right, I'll see you at the ribbon cutting anyway. Like we're doing it.  

President Biden [00:10:11] Well, Saria, for 30 years [applause] for 30 years I learned-- she told me she'd been a proud member of the Ironworkers Local 44 known as, [applause] known as the "Cowboys in the Sky". The folks who built, built Cincinnati's skyline. Saria said she can't wait to be 10 stories above the Ohio River building that new bridge. God bless her. [Laughter.] That's pride. 

Sarah [00:10:47] Oh, I loved that so much because my stinkin representatives have done that. And, look, mad credit to Mitch McConnell who showed up at the bridge opening. He did vote for this. So, credit where credit is due. But, yeah, I thought that was really great to say you can come; I know you didn't vote for it, but I'll let you have the money. Because it was just in such sharp contrast to the way Trump governed. Which is you're my enemy; you didn't vote for me; I'm going to punish you. And to have somebody stand up and say, no, the president is the president for everyone and we take care of the country whether they voted for me or not, instead of we're not friends and I hate you and you suck. It's just so much more mature. It's like it's such a breath of fresh air. It's so comforting. I can just feel my cortisol levels drop when a president stands up there-- even a president I disagree with, now that I know what it's like when they don't do this-- to stand up there and say, "You are not my enemy because you didn't vote for me and I will take care of you in this country no matter what."  

Beth [00:11:53] And it's not just the money, it's the credit. They didn't vote for it and he's, like, come get your picture made here anyway. You can take the credit for something you didn't get behind. And the difference between that and the former president who contemplated withholding disaster relief from places because the states are typically blue, it's just a huge difference and it feels like it's pulling us to something so much saner than where we've been.  

Sarah [00:12:20] Well, and it's just the love of people, right? It's just the fuel. Because you can envision another president standing up there and doing the right thing but making you feel bad about it; whereas, he was just having fun. He's like, you know what, I love you guys. It's like you're my cousin and you're so annoying to me and I hate how you're such a hypocrite, and also, you're my cousin I don't care and I love you anyway. It just had that vibe, like, we're in this together. And that is a beautiful thing.  

Beth [00:12:51] Yeah. I don't know where all of that fuel comes from in him, because this was a Joe Biden with a spring in his step. I don't think we've really seen this version of him even when he was campaigning the first time. He did a very sort of serious grave "The soul of America is at risk" campaign. And this Joe Biden is feeling himself and it really translates.  

Sarah [00:13:17] Yeah. All right. Well, let's transition to the next part of the speech where he talked more about what's on his legislative list. And it was a long list for what he'd like to do with this Congress.  

President Biden [00:13:28] And by the way, when we do all these things, we increase productivity, we increase economic growth. So, let's finish the job and get more families access to affordable, quality housing. Let's get seniors who want to stay in their homes and the care that they need to do so. Let's give more breathing room to millions of family caregivers looking after their loved ones. Pass my plan so we get seniors and people with disabilities the home care and services they need. [Applause.]  

Sarah [00:13:57] The pretty consistent message of the second half of the speech was let's finish the job. He said it many, many, many, many times. Let's finish the job.  

Beth [00:14:06] He did. I have mixed reviews of this part of the speech. Now, another thing I hate about the State of the Union is the legislative laundry list. And we got it. There were parts of this laundry list that I really liked-- they were especially the small things. I like progress in the small things, and I was so happy to hear him talk about insulin drug costs, and junk fees. I was like, yes, let's do that because they're not small in their impact, but they are not let's fundamentally reorder the economy kind of things. So, I was excited about these steps.  

Sarah [00:14:38] The insulin drug costs-- not surprisingly, considering my son's diagnosis with type one diabetes-- hit it real different. And I thought-- like, I'm tearing up right now because I cried. I just sat there in my car while I was listening to it and cried because I thought, I've never had a part of the State of the Union that felt so personal before. Honestly, even with the school shootings stuff. I think because that feels so special and hard to tackle. I can't even quite articulate why that felt so different to me. Maybe because it's not just like this kitchen table thing, it's this very hard difficult aspect of American society and government. But insulin drug cost is just everything that is in my life every single day. And to hear the president of the United States say, "What's happening to you it’s not fair. What's happening with this is not fair and we should do something about it. It is wrong, what's happening to you every day with this," was just so impactful. And, look, we don't struggle with the cost of insulin. It's not like we're making the difficult choices. We're not rationing insulin for Felix, but it was just the acknowledgment of this thing in your life and the way it's playing out is not fair. And I know and I can just feel so profoundly the pain and the impact of what it must be like to ration insulin. So, it's just I've never had a moment in the State of the Union hit me as hard and as personally and it's every day. That's what it probably is the difference between the school shooting and this, is this my everyday life. This is millions of Americans’ everyday lives. And these are kids. So many of the times these are kids.  

President Biden [00:16:17] It cost the drug companies roughly $10 a vial to make that insulin, package it and all you may get up to $13. But Big Pharma has been unfairly charging people hundreds of dollars, 4 to $500 a month, making record profits. Not anymore. [Applause.] Not anymore.  

Sarah [00:16:40] It also was so impactful and hopeful to me that he spoke about the discovery of insulin and that the person gave the patent away for a dollar because he believed that it should be for everyone. I love that that story is getting out there more and more and more because I think it will increase the pressure to do the right thing with regards to insulin. And so, man, it was just-- it was a lot.  

Beth [00:17:04] Well another, I thought, masterful thread throughout the speech was him saying pharmaceutical companies are still going to do really well.  

Sarah [00:17:11] Yeah, they're fine.  

Beth [00:17:12] The wealthy are still going to be really wealthy. I am not for everybody making the same amount of money every single day. I'm not against people getting rich, but what I'm saying is there's a point. I thought the line that capitalism without competition is extortion was so good. And where he made the case like, look, I like the way things are for the most part, but they've gotten out of balance and I want to restore some balance here. That was a fantastic centrist message for the country about what the role of government is in relation to the economy.  

Sarah [00:17:47] I agree. I thought those parts of the speech were so powerful and he did that kind of shtick more than once about capitalists and the wealthy making money. And it reminded me so much of this quote. I'm reading Martin Luther King's book, Where Do We Go From Here? And he quotes Hyman Bookbinder. This is the Office of Economic Opportunity from 1966. And he says "The poor can stop being poor if the rich are willing to become even richer at a slower rate." And I thought, oh, that's so good. I kind of wished Joe Biden had used that quote. Because I was like that's it, we're not trying to take your money, but could you just get rich a little slower? That's all we're asking here.  

Beth [00:18:24] Well that's why, to me, the section on junk fees was so good because you don't get rich off junk fees. You start rich and then you get richer from junk fees. But you absolutely can get poor off of junk fees. And the way that those kinds of surcharges pile up on people and trap them, it would be so meaningful for the government to just say, no, cut that out. You can still charge money and make a really good profit. Like, cut it out.  

Sarah [00:18:54] I mean, the other day Nicholas and I went to a hotel in Nashville to see Lake Street Dive and two days later the hotel charged us $18. And Nicholas called and they're, like, it's a facility fee. I was like, "Excuse me, you're not a hospital." Which that's also a bullshit charge, not for nothing. And I was, like, oh my God! And I think that's it. It's like the moment in the speech where as a political podcaster, I just felt like an American going, "Yeah, can you do something about that?" Like just as a good old fashioned American citizen where I was like, "Yeah, that's crap. Can you do something about that?" And that was definitely a part of the speech where I was like nodding along and being like, sure, you guys will all be so popular. Everybody can take credit and everybody will be popular. Please get rid of these fees.  

Beth [00:19:39] And I just like the emphasis on these pieces that are really important but are not transformative because let's finish the job to me means we have passed huge pieces of legislation and carrying those forward to execution is going to be hard. And we need to finish the job of carrying those forward to execution. I am really not interested, to be perfectly honest, in any more transformative pieces of legislation for a while. I think everything needs to settle. When he talks about adding thousands of construction jobs, that's really exciting and that is hard. Where are those people going to come from and what efforts are going to be needed to transform America in a way that gets those jobs filled? And that could encompass everything from substance abuse, to incarceration rates, to education and job training. There's so much that needs to happen to support the bills that have already been passed. So, when he got into his laundry list and it was smaller in terms of ambition-- still hard, still big, but a little smaller than what we heard in the last State of the Union-- I was comforted by that.  

Sarah [00:20:49] Yeah. That's why your influence is good for me because I'm always in the space where I'm like, "Do it all of it. Do it big." Really the best thing Congress can do right now is focus on junk fees. But I'm like, yeah, I know you're probably right. Every congressional session can't be transformative. Speaking of the congressional session and acknowledging that we have a different Congress, at breakfast the next day you said he had this great line where he said, "Just like my high school coach used to say, good luck in your senior year."  

President Biden [00:21:19] As my coach-- that's okay. That's fair. As my football coach used to say, "Lots of luck in your senior year." [Laughter and applause.] Make no mistake, if you try anything to raise the cost of prescription drugs, I will veto it. [Applause.]  

Sarah [00:21:41] Beth, I have a confession to make. You said that and you chuckled and said how great it was. And I chuckled along and I nodded my head, and I have no idea what that means. And I'm not alone because my friend Smith texted me and was like, "What does that even mean?" I was like, "Oh my God. I thought I was the only one that didn't understand it because it's a sports reference." And then I Googled it and there's like six different articles where people are like, "What does that even mean?" So, what did you take it to mean?  

Beth [00:22:06] I took it to mean you're not going to be here long if you are trying to raise taxes on people or raise the cost of-- he said I think about pharmaceuticals. Where he said "If you send me legislation that raises the cost of drugs for people, I will veto it. Good luck in your senior year." And I just thought it meant like you're going to be on your way out of here if you can't get on board with things that the vast majority of the country wants.  

Sarah [00:22:33] Yeah, I think that's where I settled and kind of what makes sense to me. The New York Times did a piece and they said, "A review of Mr. Biden's public statements over the decades-- and a cursory dip into the world of high school and collegiate football-- suggests that the phrase has been used by seasoned veterans to signal to the inexperienced that they're running out of time to learn the ropes." And I thought, okay, that pieces the pieces together to me. It just made me feel better that I was not the only one like chuckling and nodding along when I didn't really understand what it meant.  

Beth [00:23:02] We don't need to do that amongst ourselves. Again, it just feels so true to him. And I want to see more people-- I think that's why-- and I know we'll get to this. That's why I'm so pleased about how Mitt Romney conducted himself, because him saying that George Sanders is a sick puppy feels true to him. That is not a glamorous thing to say. It is not hip in any way, but it feels like him. And I like it when people are just themselves even when all of the microphones are on.  

Sarah [00:23:44] He talked about the Cancer Moonshot and then he got into some foreign policy with regards to Ukraine, which is I think the Republicans are trying to stake out some different ground on. Good luck in your senior year, guys. Let's say that. The most interesting part to me in the second half of the speech, particularly the foreign policy section, is he spoke about find me a leader who's jealous of China.  

President Biden [00:24:09] Winning the competition should unite all of us. We face serious challenges across the world. But in the past two years, democracies have become stronger, not weaker. Autocracies have grown weaker, not stronger. Name me a world leader who'd change places with Xi Jinping. Name me one. Name me one.  

Sarah [00:24:29] And he was so animated. Like almost angry. And I thought, what conversations with foreign leaders is animating the energy that you have brought to this particular line? What did you and Macron talk about? What did you and Justin-- I mean, I agree. If I was a world leader, I would not trade places with Xi Jinping for anything. But I thought just the passion he brought to that, and I wonder if he was animated by the balloon situation? I don't know. Which he didn't mention, but I thought it was very interesting.  

Beth [00:25:01] Yeah, it was funny when you said what conversations have you had with Macron? Because I thought about him too every time Biden would say, "I make no apologies about this," when he was talking about how we're going to buy every single component of everything in America and everything's going to be made in America, and we're going to buy American on and on and on. And, look, I am not an economic populist. That stuff doesn't speak to me. I'm delighted for us to make more here, but I don't think we need to make everything here. I have no problem with a global supply chain. I think it's lifted a lot of people out of poverty and I think it's an important part of our national security. And I know that President Macron is very, very displeased with President Biden and with the Inflation Reduction Act and this whole approach. And so, I thought he had Macron in his brain as he acknowledged those critiques during the speech, too.  

Sarah [00:25:50] It's probably back to what we said in the first section. He just loves people. He's just talking to them all the time. He's interested in people, as evidenced also by the fact that he spent an equal amount of time to a very long speech (was about an hour and a half) working the room on his way out. And it just felt like he was loving it. He was talking to everybody, like, crying with people, acknowledging the death of their loved ones, and also new babies and exciting new ventures and all this stuff. And it just felt like a big ol don't even talk about how old I am. How dare you talk about me being low energy or not being able to handle this? I just stood up with a stutter and did an hour and a half speech and then came and worked the room for an hour and a half as well.  

Beth [00:26:31] I read Politico's West Wing Playbook. I think I forget what all of the different emails are called, but this one will frequently talk about how often Joe Biden calls people's parents who work in the White House to tell them what a great job their kiddo is doing and to check in.  

Sarah [00:26:48] Bless.  

Beth [00:26:48] And watching him walk around the room felt so much like those stories from the West Wing Playbook, because you can see that he does just think people are interesting and fun. And you can't fake that. And that is such a contrast from Trump, too. I've never seen a moment where I watched Trump interact with people and thought, wow, he just loves people. I've never had that thought even one time. And I don't think that that's necessary for the president. I mean, I think President Obama-- much more cerebral. I've never thought, boy, he just really enjoys this part. And so, it's fine. But it's fun to watch somebody who just genuinely loves people.  

Sarah [00:27:28] Yeah. And I have to say, if the object of the State of the Union was not only to tout his success, but to set himself up for a reelection campaign, (which I don't think there's any doubt that that's what that was) he worked on me. He worked on me. He's got me a little bit more convinced that he can do it. And I thought I really am trying to examine my thoughts about age. Is it ageism to assume that there is a hard reality about certain ages? at a certain point, everyone is like this. And I'm not sure I believe that. I'm not sure I believe that everyone decreases in capacity once they magically reach the age of 80, and if it is important to fight back against any sort of like stereotyping and discrimination to acknowledge that every individual is different. I do not know Joe Biden. I'm not in his body. I have never really met him. I don't know what his energy level is like. I can only see what I see. And I think that there are moments where he seems tired or sort of-- I don't want to use the word confused, but will misspeak. But that's been true for most of his career. And I thought, man, if this is what you're capable of every day as you campaign and our president for another four years, then fine. Fine. I'm not going to take that away from you because this was a hell of a performance.  

Beth [00:28:59] Well, I am in a completely different place than the rest of America on this, because I thought this seemed like a performance from someone who maybe isn't going to run again because he seemed so free to me, especially in his interaction with Republicans as they jeered. And we covered that on our premium channels. But the way that he just seemed like, oh, okay, if we're going to do this? I'll do it, too. It's fine. The way that he puts issues that are traditionally very important to the base of the Democratic Party way down on the priority list in the speech. He hardly mentioned abortion. He did mention it, but hardly. He did nothing really on issues of social equality. Everything Republicans say, you know, you guys are beholden to the woke left. There wasn't any woke left in this speech. I don't know what the equivalent of red meat is-- maybe it's like avocado toast or something. He did none of that. There was none of that in this speech. And that seemed to me like someone who is about done. He's finishing the job. He's got two years left. He's going to wrap it up. He's setting a tone and a model for where the party can go from here. And I just wonder if this is kind of a grand finale, like, leading up to a grand finale of a very long career in public service.  

Sarah [00:30:19] Yeah. I think you're in a different place than most people.  

Beth [00:30:22] I am. Yeah.  

Sarah [00:30:22] Because he doesn't have to speak to the base. He's going to be an incumbent president. Like, he doesn't have to do that. He got what he wanted. South Carolina is now the first primary state that gave him the nomination the first time. So, to me, the let's finish the job, it could really be interpreted either way. It could be let's finish the job. Let's finish this first term. Let's finish what I came to do. Or let's finish the job because I need four more years. I think, to me, it's the traveling. It's the going to swing states, to me, that leaves me in a pretty sure space that he's going to run again. It's the traveling to Wisconsin, in Florida. Why are you going to Wisconsin? Otherwise, unless he just enjoys it. Unless he just enjoys Wisconsin in February and perhaps, he does.  

Beth [00:31:04] Or if he wants to build something that other Democrats can run on. I think he, probably more than most people, is acutely aware of how difficult the Senate map is for Democrats in the next cycle. And I think that if he runs again, it will probably be as much about the Senate map as it is about the presidency. Because I do think there are a number of people who could run at the top of the ticket and be really logical successors to him, but I would not put it past him to be doing this as party building. That's a complaint from the Obama era that I bet he wants to rectify that there wasn't enough party building.  

Sarah [00:31:40] Yeah, it's the delay too. What's he waiting for? Those people are going to need time. If he wants to pass the baton, those people need time. Every day that goes by, every week that goes by that he doesn't announce one way or the other, I think is a point in the column that he's probably going to run again. Hopefully, we'll find out soon. Hopefully, we'll find out soon.  

Beth [00:32:00] I did think there was a small moment in his speech that jumped out at me and that really grabbed me and touched me. And I thought if he were to run again, I think this would be a really central message. And it was when he was talking bizarrely about tax enforcement and the return that Americans get on additional dollars invested in tax enforcement. And he kind of quieted his voice a little bit and said it matters. And he said it matters a couple of times in a way that I thought, gosh, that is such a good message for America right now. That this is not all a game, that the things that we do, even the small things that we do bureaucratically in Washington, really make a difference. And I think chipping away at the nihilism of the past few years-- we talked about this at the beginning of January, that if you learned something last year, it was that things matter: That Ukraine actually can make a big stand if it gets enough support. That Congress can actually pass legislation with decent leadership and a commitment to doing it. And so, I think "It matters" would be a much more effective slogan than let's finish the job if he's going forward.  

President Biden [00:33:13] Now, let's triple the anti-fraud strike force going after these criminals, double the statute of limitations on these crimes, and crack down on identity fraud by criminal syndicates stealing billions of dollars, billions of dollars from the American people. [Applause.] The data shows that for every dollar we put into fighting fraud, the taxpayer get back at least 10 times as much. It matters. It matters.  

Sarah [00:33:40] Beth, we tackled the heckling and the generally unserious, silly behavior on our spicy nightly nuance yesterday. But we did want to take a moment to speak to Governor Sarah Huckabee Sanders response-- the Republican response to the State of the Union.  

Beth [00:33:56] I watched it this morning, so I didn't see them back-to-back. Even with the gap in time between when I watched President Biden's address and Governor Huckabee Sanders response, I was struck by how discordant the response felt. It didn't feel like a response. It just felt like a separate thing because tonally it was so different. Because she inserted a lot of personal biography, which is fine, but it wasn't responsive to the State of the Union. And because she seemed to be talking about a different party than the party that is leading from the White House, at least right now. It made me think about while we were in Maryville College, we were in a comparative politics class and the professor drew on the board kind of a bell curve of how American politics used to look and how it kind of looks like two bell curves very far apart from each other now. And we were talking about what effect that has. And I said as I think about it, the last Congress really produced legislation that I would put in that normal bell curve. So maybe we do have two extremes, but if those two extremes are coming together in a way that produces something more centrist, that's maybe fine with me. And I was listening to her response, and I felt like I watched the normal bell curve as the State of the Union and then the very far right response to it, even though I think her whole demeanor was supposed to project something different from the Donald Trump Republican Party.  

Sarah [00:35:27] When they announced it was her, I thought, well, that's very smart. The youngest governor in the nation. And I thought, well, does she have bigger plans? Because that's usually what the space is for. And maybe she does. I think it's going to be a very crowded field. Maybe she's angling for a vice presidency, perhaps. But I thought-- as she started talking, I was like, "Where do you live? Where do you live?" I know where she lives. She lives in Arkansas, so I guess I get it. But to me, in the same way, it was smart for Joe Biden not to speak to the Democratic base and not to make this a campaign speech for Democrats, but to make it a play to the middle. That's what their response should have been. Their response should have been a play to the middle. America is painting us as radicals, as January 6th insurrectionists, but this is what the Republican Party really stands for. And instead, she was like, we're normal and he's weird. And I'm like, that's the line you want people to take away from this? Is that you guys are the party of normal after Marjorie Taylor Greene and her Cruella de Vil coat screams out like a high schooler the whole time? I don't understand. I'm confused.  

Beth [00:36:39] Well, here's the other thing. There was so much conciliatory language in the State of the Union. There was reporting that Kevin McCarthy personally asked Joe Biden not to use the phrase "extreme MAGA Republicans." He didn't even use the word MAGA in the address. He listened. He took that and he tried and he did a lot of outreach. Now he went after them on some things and then they pushed back and he was like, oh great, we don't have to worry about that. We agree. Perfect. And I thought that was really smart, but it was conciliatory and it was adult and it did set a different tone. And so, then when she didn't take any opportunity to say, like, here's an area of commonality or here's something that I would think we can all work together on. Even when she was telling her personal story about having cancer, and I didn't know that she had struggled with thyroid cancer. I'm delighted that she's recovered. But I thought that would have been an easy moment to do some outreach. And I appreciate that the president elevates this issue. We may disagree on a lot, but I think we all can come together and agree that cancer hurts too many Americans. There were so many opportunities to say we are also are trying for a different vision of leadership. And, instead, it was the radical woke mob over and over, and it just felt hollow and dated and false.  

Sarah [00:38:01] Yeah. Well, and it felt like as it often feels, as it felt with Marjorie Taylor Greene-- heckling, that they're talking to Trump or they're at least talking to Trump's base. If they're not trying to keep him from being mad at them, they're trying to convince his base not to be mad at them. And so, they're not talking to Joe Biden. They're not acknowledging the reality of Joe Biden, because that particular part of the Republican base doesn't live in reality. I'm sorry, they don't. And you feel that. You feel this sense of even the moment where she talks about how the troops loved Trump. Is that relevant to a voter you want to convince to vote Republican in 2024? Or is it relevant to Donald Trump's ego? I think it's the second one. And so, it's just like you guys have got to decide what you're doing. You have got to free yourselves from the shackles of this man who has destroyed your electoral prospects over and over and over again.  

Beth [00:38:54] And you see that freedom in Mitt Romney. In the way that Mitt Romney conducts himself and the fact that he sits with Senator Sinema. That he applauds when he wants to applaud and doesn't when he doesn't want to. And I really liked the four minute-ish video he recorded from his office after the speech where he started with, "I like Joe Biden. We're friends. I think he cares and means the things that he says, and here are the spaces we disagree." And he said, "Look, it's hard to disagree with any of what President Biden lists as a priority, but we do have to have priorities. We have to make some hard decisions. We can't do everything at one time. Also, I think it's disingenuous to say that he reduced the deficit. There's a lot more that you need to know about that, and here's what it is." It was a different vision of what government is supposed to do, articulated in good faith and in a cooperative spirit. And, man, that's what we need. That's what we need. You want a Congress that includes a Mitt Romney articulating that different vision and having some friction with the president. So, it's not all good vibes all the time. We get the tension that hopefully produces some better results. And Mitt Romney is able to do that because he has crossed the Rubicon. He's all the way done with being beholden to the Republican base. And he's at a point in his life, for whatever reason, where he can. And I just so badly wish we could have 40- year-olds who have that sense of freedom in both parties.  

Sarah [00:40:23] But I don't think we do. Since cancer was such an emphasis of the evening in their response, I just think the party has a type of cancer. And until they cut it out or burn it out or-- I don't know-- die and reborn, that's where the party is at. And that response was highly indicative of that.  

Beth [00:40:42] I also wanted to briefly mention that I watched the No Labels response to the State of the Union, which was different than the way they've done it before. It wasn't really about the address as much as it was saying let's pick out one issue from the address that we're really focused on right now. And it was Representative Tony Gonzalez and Representative Henry Cuellar, both in Texas districts pretty close to each other, pretty similar districts. They seem to be personal friends. And they were talking about how immigration and border security are essential for this Congress to move on and how they're different from each other. And I thought this was a great line from Representative Cuellar that securing the border is like playing defense at the one-yard line. And what we need to do is be at the 20 and then the 30 and then the 40 and be working together on how we can create that. We need to listen more to these communities. We need to listen more to the people at the border. And we can do all that with compassion for the people trying to cross into the country. It was grown up. I felt like I learned some things listening to them. It is again what you want from people who are showing up to work every day in Congress. So, I was in a good mood when I finished all this, which is not usually how I feel after the State of the Union stuff.  

Sarah [00:41:57] Well, good news. I understand that sports metaphor. So that's really what matters, is that I do understand the yard line. Next up, we are going to talk about what's on our mind Outside Politics. Beth, we spent the beginning of this week in Maryville, Tennessee, as the inaugural speakers at Maryville College's Witherspoon Lecture Series. And it was quite an honor.  

Beth [00:42:30] It was quite an honor. It was so much fun to be in a space that felt very much like our alma mater. Maryville felt similar to Transylvania in a number of respects, about the same size student body, a real commitment to searching inquiry and the liberal arts tradition. And to have that in a space that is just breathtakingly beautiful. The effect that mountains have on me is hard to articulate, but just being able to look up there... There is a set of mountains they call them the three sisters that you can see everywhere on campus. And it just affects your cells, you know?  

Sarah [00:43:07] Yes. We had the most amazing time and just people who are invested in the student body, including the president of the Student Government Association, Mattie, who's a longtime listener of our show and was just the most wonderful, warm, delightful guy to have throughout the day. We loved spending the day with her. Their president, Dr. Coker, is incredible. The entire team at Maryville was welcoming. The Witherspoon, who we got to meet, their family, were so generous with us and I learned a lot. I love being around college students and having them work on me and my thoughts and my ideas, and I just had such a wonderful time. And we had listeners. So many listeners come in for the event, including Erica and her husband who came from Oregon. Oh, my goodness, what a compliment. So, it was a delight from beginning to end.  

Beth [00:44:06] It really was. We did an interview with some local media before we were there, and they were asking like, "What is it that you're going to bring to Maryville? And I hope we brought some things to Maryville. But we said in the interview we don't know exactly because we like to get there and hear from people about what's going on in the community, what's happening on campus. We don't like to roll in with a canned presentation. We like to say, what do you care about? And let's discuss that. And I really hope that we did that. And it was just so interesting to learn about this college and its covenant with its students and its relationship with its community, and what's happening in the community in terms of economic development and people flowing in and out of it and how the politics are changing. So, to me, the luckiest thing about what we do-- and there are so many lucky things. But the luckiest thing is I just feel like every time we visit a space, I get to know this country in a deeper and richer way. Makes me feel very patriotic to be out on the road doing speaking events. And we get to interact with some of the most generous, intelligent, committed people that I could imagine.  

Sarah [00:45:14] Yes, it's an incredible blessing. My word for 2023. It's such a blessing when we get to do that. Thank you all for joining us today. We hope that we'll see some of you very soon at East Tennessee State University and or in Orlando. Governor DeSantis is hard at work making this event hyper relevant politically right now. We just really appreciate all his efforts for our live show in April. Info for both events is in our show notes. And until Tuesday, keep it nuanced y'all. 

Beth [00:45:56] Pantsuit Politics is produced by Studio D Podcast Production. Alise Napp is our managing director.  

Sarah [00:46:01] Maggie Penton is our community engagement manager. Dante Lima is the composer and performer of our theme music.  

Beth [00:46:07] Our show is listener-supported. Special thanks to our executive producers.  

Executive Producers [00:46:11] Martha Bronitsky. Ali Edwards. Janice Elliott. Sarah Greenup. Julie Haller. Helen Handly. Tiffany Hasler. Emily Holladay. Katie Johnson. Katina Zuganelis Kasling. Barry Kaufman. Molly Kohrs. Katherine Vollmer. Laurie LaDow. Lily McClure. Linda Daniel. Emily Neesley. The Pentons. Tawni Peterson. Tracy Puthoff. Sarah Ralph. Jeremy Sequoia. Katie Stigers. Karin True. Onica Ulveling. Nick and Alysa Villeli. Amy Whited. Emily Helen Olsen. Lee Chaix McDonough. Morgan McHugh.  

Beth [00:46:50] Jeff Davis. Melinda Johnston. Michelle Wood. Joshua Allen. Nichole Berklas. Paula Bremer and Tim Miller. 

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