T1D: A Life Changing Diagnosis

TOPICS DISCUSSED

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TRANSCRIPT

Sarah [00:00:00] I don't know why I stepped in here without Kleenexes. Hold on just a second.  

[00:00:13] This is Sarah Stewart Holland,  

Beth [00:00:14] And this is Beth Silvers  

Sarah [00:00:16] Thank you for joining us for Pantsuit Politics.  

Beth [00:00:32] Hello, thank you for joining us for another episode of Pantsuit Politics, where we take a different approach to the news. Today, that different approach is going to mean stepping back from headline news and talking about some personal news in Sarah's family, as we share a medical diagnosis that Sarah's son received this week. We'll also spend some time discussing your thoughts and questions following Tuesday's conversation about the chorus of 10,000 voices. Might as well bring some of those voices into the discussion, which I think helps illustrate why we use a loving metaphor about it, because it's been really wonderful to hear from you following that episode. And, finally, outside of politics, we'll talk about free range parenting and raising kids who have a heart for the planet.  

Sarah [00:01:12] So many of you shared that Tuesday's episode about how hard it is to talk about anything with anyone really connected to you. And in addition to continuing to work through that here on the podcast, we hope that you will preorder our book, Now What? How to move forward when we're divided about basically everything. Comes out May 3rd and this book is not a how to. It's not like we offer a formula about how to fix everyone's frustration, but we do share stories about relationships and worries and hopes along with some really practical questions you can take into your conversations to help get them unstuck.  

[00:01:49] I feel like we couldn't have had the conversation about the chorus of 10000 voices unless we'd written that book first. I think it really helped both of us and and moved forward our thinking, and we hope it will do the same for you. Our launch team is reading the book right now, and the feedback has been so amazing. We love this from Liz. "I laughed, I cried. And most importantly, I learned. At times it felt like having conversation with friends over coffee, and other times it was like listening to wise, older mentors, even though we're the same age." She says, "Hashtag, 1981 babies are the best."  

Beth [00:02:22] We're going to have a party online on May 3rd to celebrate the book's release together. This party is for premium subscribers, so our members through Patreon and Apple Podcasts subscriptions, as well as everyone who preorders the book. So please make sure if you are an Apple Podcasts subscription member, that you've shared your email address with us so we can get you the invitation. And if you have preordered the book that you've completed that preorder form on our website after you've purchased it so that we can get all the information to you. The links are going to be in our show notes. Truly, thank you for helping us bring this book into the world where we hope it will be supportive to your relationships and to you and to lots of other people.  

[00:03:10] Little transparency for everyone, Sarah, and I divide up responsibility for kind of moving the show along each week and Friday episodes are the shows that I'm responsible for moving along. So I sat down and tried to come up with a good question or a good introduction for this conversation. But, really, we're going to start with a story that just belongs to you, Sarah. So I want to get out of your way and let you begin this however you'd like.  

Sarah [00:03:34] As most of you know, we went to spring break in Utah, I guess it was two weeks ago. And I would say at the end of that trip, we noticed that Felix was articulating being thirsty a little bit more and just saying, "I'm thirsty." We thought, well, maybe it's just because we're like in this high altitude. Well, listen, the people of Utah love soda. So we were drinking soda and lemonade, which we don't usually drink. We usually just drink water. And so we thought maybe that was it. And we were hiking, we're do things. But then we came home, and over the week he would still articulate a lot, "I'm thirsty. I'm thirsty." And they real red flag for my husband is he took him to piano lessons on Friday, he drank a big glass of water, he went to the bathroom there and then like just 30 minutes later, got home and had to pee again. And he was like, that's weird. We've said this before with our other kids, like, they're thirst isn't that a sign of type one diabetes? But we never got him tested. We never it's sort of they stopped articulate it.  

[00:04:38] But Felix was still articulating it. So Saturday, after soccer, I remember we were going to lunch and he said, "I'm still thirsty." And I said to him, "Dang, Felix, you're thirsty all the time. Do you have diabetes?" And he was like, "What's that?" And I was like, "Oh, you don't. Don't worry about it. It's just that can be a sign of it." And so Sunday and Easter Sunday in church, I actually, during the church service, messaged my physician's office and said he's exhibiting excessive thirst. We're just a little worried about it. Should we bring him in? But then I remember that we have a blood glucose monitor. Funnily enough, it's because of his godmothers who I don't know if she would describe herself as into alternative medicine. But she's very health conscious. And she's willing to try anything. Like, she's been on keto for a really long time.  

[00:05:23] And so there was a point where she was like really into blood glucose monitoring, and she was like, you should do it, like, it's really helpful. And I was like, okay, I'm going to just do whatever she says, like, take whatever support she tells me to take. So I was like, okay, I'll try it. This must have been in around 2017 because the strips had expired in 2018. But we woke up on Monday morning and I was like, I'll just test this blood sugar when he wakes up. So we got up, I like dug out the blood glucose monitor, saw that the strips were expired and was like, man, let's try it anyway. Had to find a battery for it. I almost gave up. Almost like, whatever, he's fine. I don't need to do all this. But I was like, no, I'll just do it. So I found the battery, put it in the blood glucose monitor. And it came up 312 and normal ranges around 100. I thought, okay, let me test myself and see if these expired strips are just wonky. Testing myself, I was 100 on the dot.  

[00:06:16] So I was like, okay. Now, it's been Easter. He'd had a ton of sugar the day before. Maybe this is a combination of the expired strips and the Easter candy and all these things. And I would like vacillate on Monday because I immediately called his doctor and she was like, okay, when does he eat lunch? I said 10:45. She said, "Bring him in after school. That should be enough fast and we'll just draw blood. I'm like, okay. I send him school. And over the course of the day -- which is the day we recorded the chorus of 10,000 voices. So is probably also why I was very tender in that episode. But I would kind of like vacillate between like he doesn't have it. He definitely has it. He doesn't have it. He definitely has it. And our immediate response was like, you know, we kind of try to think if he has it, he will handle it. But putting ourselves in, like, if he has it is just -- you know, I think both Nicholas and I immediate reaction was like, this is so unfair because he has hemiplegia. He has enough to deal with. Like, he already has a medical disability. Like, are you freaking kidding me?  

[00:07:15] So I take him to the doctor after school. He was complaining of his legs hurting during school that day. So I take him to the doctor after school. She draws the blood. He's like a total champ through. We watch our cat videos, which is our strategy for shots and vaccines. And we come home, she's like, we should have an answer in an hour or two. She's like, here's what will happen if it's elevated, I'm going to call Vanderbilt Children's Hospital and they're going to want you to come. They might tell you you can wait till tomorrow, I don't know. If it's not elevated, I'll just have you monitor it for a few days. I said, okay. So I come home, I'm lying on the couch waiting, and then about an hour, I realize, oh, I don't really necessarily have to wait for them to call me. I bet it'll show up in my chart before they call me. Which is not the best strategy. I recommend it. But I pulled up my chart about an hour and a half and I saw it and it was like 384. And I was like, okay, well, I guess this is where we're at. He has it.  

[00:08:07] So she calls me like moments later, I'm like, I saw it on my chart. And she's like, okay, I've talked to Vandy. They want you to come right now. And I'm like, okay. She's like, you know, he doesn't seem to have any emergent situation, but he's right on the line. It can change really quickly. I was like, okay. So I called Nicholas. We packed a suitcase because they said, you could be there for 24 to 48 hours. Packed suitcase, packed clothes, got in the van, drove to Nashville, got there around 7:00. They checked us into the emergency room and drew more blood, which he was also a champ through. Put in an I.V., they they were like, "We have to check if he's in DK, which means I think this diabetic ketosis. And I'm learning all this language for the first time. And he was not, which is a massive blessing because it means we didn't have to go to the intensive care unit. It means we got, you know, about 10:30 that night, they'd given him his first dose of insulin. We were heading up to a regular room.  

[00:09:08] Nicholas slept at my uncle's. I slept in the hospital room with Felix and they, you know, just started giving him insulin. And he kind of just wait a few meals. The diabetic educators came to the room and sat with us for a couple of hours talking us through. You know, they kind of spoon feed you at first. So right now it's just like a corrective dose of insulin with every meal. We're not really carb counting yet. And then we got all the many, many, supplies of needles and insulin and meters, did all the things and very quickly got introduced through a few friends of people whose children have type one diabetes. Nicholas's really good friend from high school, Shannon, her child was diagnosed recently and so she's been a massive help. So we get the education, we get storybooks, we get a teddy bear. And by that afternoon, the doctor comes in and she's like, "Incredible job. It's very rare to have a kid come in that's not in DK when they're diagnosed. So you caught it so early." And, I mean, I do think we had sort of the least traumatic diagnosis ever, but which is in sharp contrast to the hemiplegia, which I still have guilt because I feel like we didn't pay close enough attention and weren't aggressive early enough.  

[00:10:29] And so by that afternoon, we were packing up our stuff and being discharged and we were home by dinner. And he went to school yesterday and we met with the nurse and got it all sorted out, and he's back at school. And here I am, recording an episode on Thursday. And it seems so surreal. And I'm sure I'm still definitely in shock. And here we are injecting insulin to our seven year old, which is not a thing I'd even contemplated on Thursday of last week, for sure, much less Saturday of last week. And I wrote on Instagram that everything is different and nothing has changed in this very weird way. There's so much to be grateful for the progression of management of diabetes. Like Sonia Sotomayor had to like boil her reusable syringes. Can you even fathom what it was like to be diagnosed as a child back then. I told Nicholas like, "How did they look up carbs?" How did you look up carbs before the internet? I don't even know.  

[00:11:47] But it is hard, and it is maddening that he has this additional layer of complication to his life. Although, I said, "Do you feel better?" He's like, "I didn't feel bad." He's laughing, he's playing. He's having a great time. You know, he is complained a little bit about a few sticks because we're getting new at it, we're not great at it yet. But, overall, it has not been hopefully super traumatic to him. But it just sucks. It just really, really, sucks. That's just the long and short of it. There's really no way to clean it up, you don't want your child to have to deal with this.  

Beth [00:12:32] There are lots of reasons for you to share this on the show. One of them is for sure to give people some information about what prompted you to catch this early. And so I want to ask you just a mom question. What indicated thirsty you versus get me this. You know what I mean, like there's a difference between a kid who wants a drink and a kid who's thirsty. I want you to help us with that.  

Sarah [00:13:00] He was literally articulating. He was saying, "I am thirsty." Not, can I have some water? Can you get me a drink? It was. I am thirsty. And, also, when you have several kids, you notice a difference. You know, they were all in Utah. They were all in the high elevation. The two older ones were hiking more than he was. They were all drinking soda. And so it also starts to stand out in short relief. There are other symptoms. You know, often my pediatrician says they find kids in the emergency room thinking it's like a stomach bug because they're vomiting and they have diarrhea. They kept asking that. Did he have vomiting and diarrhea? And I'm like, "No, that's just like four times." I'm like, "Do you not believe me? He didn't have it." And there's often like weight loss, which he didn't have, because I think we caught it so soon. I mean, he just had a, Well-child visit and the difference was like six ounces when we came in to get the blood drawn from his Well-child visit about a month ago.  

[00:13:55] They do say that there has been an increase in cases since Covid. I don't know why, obviously. But, I guess that makes sense. I mean, we don't know if Felix ever had Covid. Felix has never tested positive for COVID, let me put it that way. And he has been tested multiple times. So I don't know if it's an autoimmune disorder. So it kind of makes sense if we had a global pandemic that you would see an increase. But, yeah, it was just the articulation of thirst. And like I said, we've asked this question about our kids before. I definitely remember because Nicholas knew it was a symptom and I didn't when he'd like mentioned it with one of our previous kids. I don't really think a blood glucose monitor is a bad thing to have in your house. It's so easy to do. It is so easy to prick your finger, get a drop of blood, and it'll tell you. As far as like if you're paranoid about it, like, that's such an easy way to quickly check your paranoia. So I definitely encourage people to, like, have one in your house.  

[00:14:59] Because adults can get it, you can get it at 21, 31. I mean, my comments in Instagram right now are full of people who are diagnosed as adults. And I think that's really why they stopped calling it juvenile diabetes. My pediatrician was like, I wish we didn't call it diabetes at all because it's so different from type two diabetes. I wishwe had different name for it. So, yeah, I don't think that -- I know that's a hard one. Like, oh, they're thirsty, well, kids say thirsty in a lot of ways. But it was the articulation. And he was peeing more. Like, he'd kind of stopped almost needing pull ups. And he was peeing the bed a little bit more and they were really full. Or he got up in Utah when you're in the covered wagon and peed out the door. Like, you would never wake up and pee before, but he got up and peed. Just little stuff like that now that we look back on it, we're like, oh, okay. Yeah.  

Beth [00:15:49] How have you tried to help Felix understand what this is?  

Sarah [00:15:53] Well, I mean because Felix is used to having a body that is different from other people's body, there is a part of this. This is a much less lonely diagnosis than hemiplegia, for sure. You know, Hemiplegia was a little lonelier. I know there's another child in our community who has it, but we've really never talked to her family or her parents. And he went to a casting camp and that helped. But it's just sort of it's a lot lonelier; whereas, type one diabetes, my kid has it, he has two teachers and three students at his school with type one diabetes. So I think immediately people were like, I think he feels that lots of people have this kind of situation. And he's used to being aware of his body and is used to his body being different and he's used to being -- I mean, as shitty as it is, he's used to being limited and having to figure out other ways to do things. t Like, that is a part of his vocabulary. That is a part of his understanding.He's not known anything different than that.  

[00:16:54] And so, you know, we just talked about, like, you get too much sugar in your blood. And we've been reading a different book every night. They sent us out the door with like five children's story books. Like, there's just so many resources to help him understand it. We really need to work on his brothers too. You know, like Griffin is okay, but Amos, I think, is sort of trying to figure out how to talk about it around Felix. He did this with Hemiplegia too. Like, he'll just like bust up with somebody we just met and be like, "Felix has a stroke." And I wanted to be like, "It's not a secret. But also he gets to decide if he wants to tell people and how he wants to talk about it." And so it's just like navigating that part of it. It feels a lot easier this time if I'm being honest. He did say this morning, he's like, "I'll try not to get low blood sugar." I'm like, "Hey, buddy, that's not how you do it. That's not on you." Like, there's definitely things we can do to help you and we will do everything we can. But everyone tells you, like, you have it under control and you're managing it so well, and then it just curveball and you'd have to detective figure out what it is. And that's what's so hard because my personality is like, we figured out, we did it, we manage it, we integrate it, we move on. And I just think like type one diabetes is like not going to be like that.  

Beth [00:18:19] I know that you mentioned this is on the rise, that they're seeing more diagnoses of kids with type one diabetes. So for listeners who know someone who's going through this, I wonder if you could say what has been helpful to you. You know, you mentioned people reaching out who have kids in a similar age group going through this. What else has been good and supportive?  

Sarah [00:18:44] I mean, when you get diagnosed, you're in a hospital setting. Almost always, I'm assuming. And the teams at these, especially children's hospitals, we were dealing with a pediatric diabetes clinic. Like, they have this down to a fine science. Like, they literally like spoon feed. Like, okay, first, we're going to do this, and then in two weeks, you're going to come back and you'll get another three hours of education. And, again, it's just such a different diagnosis. You know, with Hemiplegia, it was just this is what it is. He might need some therapy. Like it was very opaque and sort of up to you how aggressive you wanted to be, really. It felt like nobody was like holding our hand and telling us the best path forward; whereas, that is not how this feels. It feels like the medical people are like, okay, I will hold your hand and we'll take this step. Everybody good? All right. We'll hold your hand and we'll take this step. It feels much more supported.  

[00:19:38] And our community is incredible. And the people who have reached out on Instagram and just said like, "My kid was diagnosed here, this is where we're at now." And just the two women I mentioned, Shane and an Jessica, just having their cell phone numbers and just being able to be like, help, I don't know what the answer is or this is what I'm concerned about. And they'll be like, yeah, that's fine. Just knowing somebody is like on the path in front of you and they can kind of sort of shine a light is really, really, helpful. And, also, it's just helpful to have Nicholas and have an amazing partner. And I can't fathom doing this as a single parent. I was like, "Well, should I not go to Waco for so many days?" And he's like, "He has two parents, you've got to pull the Band-Aid off. He's going to be fine." And all this difficulty just knowing there's somebody there that is probably even better at most of this than I will be, because he's like built for this moment.  

[00:20:37] He's an Eagle Scout. He lives by the one is known to is one mantra. He loves to be an everyday carrier packed with all the essentials. Literally, he has all the skills to the point where he's like, "I feel like I'm being mocked. Like, I have all these skills and the universe is like, "Would you like to use them?" He's like, "I wish they'd ask, because my answer would be like, no, I don't want to use all these skills I've acquired." So just feeling that, knowing that I have a great partner, knowing that there's all these people that have walked the road that are here to help us and answer every question, and it's not a lack of support. You know, I'm so grateful it wasn't traumatic. I know it could be so much worse on many levels. I know we're not owed anything in life and that nothing is promised to us and still it's just hard and it sucks. And I know we'll get to a place where we manage it and it won't consume so much of my brain. But I just resent that it even is here in the first place. Like, I don't want to be good at this. I don't want to be a great mom managing this. Like, I want to be a great mom managing every day bullshit. Like, I don't want to, but nobody asked me, and that's how it works. And I understand that it's just hard.  

Beth [00:21:57] Is there anything else you want to say today?  

Sarah [00:22:02] I am grateful to every single one of you who has reached out, though it has made it less hard. I will continue to lean on you. I've already deputized one listener as Felix's big brother in diabetes and I will continue to need support and help, and I appreciate it. I know this is not the last hard thing we'll deal with in our lives. I know I will be there as other people I love and I'm connected to handle hard things. I know this is just the journey of being a human being which we talk about here a lot on Pantsuit Politics. And I'm so grateful to have this community. Truly, I am. And I know that all of you love me and love my family and love my little boy and it means the world.  

Beth [00:23:19] Well, there's no transition from a very personal story to a very communal story, but it is all connected, I think, in a number of ways. And probably some of those connections will be drawn out as we talk about Tuesday's episode, the chorus of 10,000. If you didn't listen, I hope you'll go back and take in that conversation. First of all, we just want to say thank you for the way you received that episode and especially for sharing it with people in your lives. I'm not going to lie to you, felt a little queasy after that one. And it was really affirming and life-giving to hear that it resonated with y'all. Discussing this episode in community again illustrates why I use a loving metaphor to talk about all that feedback that comes in from the internet. Because even though the points of connection that help us hear from everyone all the time about everything are really stressful, they also are really awesome.  

Sarah [00:24:09] Yeah, it just reminds me that we have that negativity bias, and that's the trap of the 10,000 voices, right? Is that it amplifies all our sort of psychological crutches and reactions, right? It can amplify a confirmation bias. It can amplify our negativity bias because when we record an episode, the only thing I hear from the chorus of 10,000 voices in my head, as we're recording, as we're over, is everything I got wrong. You weren't sensitive enough about this. You neglected this. You didn't say this. I did have to finally, like, check my husband because he'll be like, "Well, did you get canceled?" And I'm like, "You have to stop saying that. That is not helpful." Like, that plays on all the anxiety parts of the chorus of 10,000 voices. And then you get on there and you put it out into the world and you realize that our brains were highly evolved to deal with social interactions, and some ways just get it all wrong, right?  

[00:25:09] Because the feedback comes back and it's like, I felt this way too. It's that it's always that risk when you say something hard about human interactions, which is when I say this, they're going to reject me. When in actuality you say it and you feel less alone because people go, "Oh my gosh, me too." But it's like every time you have to teach yourself that. It's so annoying. How come we didn't evolve to remember that instead of find what's right and remember everybody's out to get you?  

Beth [00:25:39] When I was putting together some of the comments that I thought we could talk about today, I felt that negativity bias because I was like, we should go straight to the people who are really frustrated with the conversation or think we missed something. And so I thought, why don't you start putting into practice, Beth, for every episode, beginning for yourself by calling out pieces of feedback where this really made a difference for someone? Go to the good thing. And I'm going to try to do that in lots of context in my life. But I wanted to share that we heard from a therapist who, just before listening, had been in session with a young adult having struggles with body image. And this therapist said it is hard to put into words how much the internet has skewed the way we think and talk about our bodies and the way we see our bodies. And the therapist said this kind of asteroid metaphor that the internet has changed everything and even though body images aren't new, the way the internet has exacerbated that sheer volume of what we see and consume every day has just really changed things. And that that metaphor is going to help normalize the phenomenon in her in her therapy work. And that really touched me.  

[00:26:50] I think another thread to pick up on, and we saw this from several people is, like, where are we talking about a universal experience in a way that ignores privilege? And we brought this into the conversation a little bit. But I thought this comment from Joe Daniel really gathered up feedback from several folks in a concise way. She said, "I felt like the loss of common experience that Sarah described was more about an awakening to your privilege that there was never actually a common experience happening. But it was more comfortable to feel that way and not have to think about or hear the way others were experiencing the same things. I feel that we are going through a necessary time of unraveling seeing the world through one lens, and that social media has allowed us a peek into the way systems have propped up certain groups. And only through this deconstruction can we create a more equitable nation. It will be uncomfortable and we will get things wrong. And I think there has to be space for growth and change other than just being canceled forever. I don't think it's a negative thing to have to challenge your perspective and think twice about your own bias before you speak."  

Sarah [00:27:55] I would like to push back on this comment. I think a lot about Tracy McMillan Cotton on the Ezra Klein show, where she says, "Well, this is why people are uncomfortable because they're having to do what minorities have been to do the whole time, which is which is navigate, never feel comfortable. I do think that's true. I think there's an aspect of privilege that's entitlement. And the truly toxic part of that is you don't even know you're doing it. Like, people are bending to your will and translating for you, and you don't even know it's happening because of the privilege. For what it's worth, I think that's why celebrity is so toxic is because that's happening and sometimes you don't know it. So you think you're getting honesty and you think you're getting vulnerability and transparency, but you're not. All that to say, I think that's true. And, also, when you talk about the spheres, like, we talk about people learn to speak inside the circle of privilege, do you know I'm talking about? Like, you build empathy because you have to speak to those people with privilege and entitlement?  

[00:29:06] I'm trying to work on this metaphor a little bit. It's not like you're learning a new language, you're figuring out what if your dialect translates to their dialect, so you can speak to that privilege and get your perspective through that wall of of privilege and entitlement. And I just think, again, we've pushed it so far away, it's becomes like you speak a language that I can't learn. Or I feel like instead of understanding we can find a way. Like, there are ways for us to talk through this entitlement in this privilege. And, yes, it's uncomfortable. But what I'm saying is I think that people understand how to translate that common experience. That's what you learn speaking through into those fears of -- it's like we are always talking like people who work in retail are more empathetic.  

[00:30:05] It's not that there is no common experience. They're learning how to translate that in a way that someone who is privileged and need not do that, doesn't know how to do. Does that make sense, do you understand what I'm saying? Like, I just want to try to push the conversation and say, like, it's not that there's no common experience between someone who is highly privileged and someone who isn't, it's just that there's a level of translation and a level of understanding. And I think I'm arguing at a very high level of degrees here, but I just don't want it to become that we don't have a common experience. I just think it's the translation that that privilege and all of that are hiding or obscuring in a way.  

Beth [00:30:56] I've noticed quite a bit on Twitter lately, where I'll see this has actually been helpful to me.  

Sarah [00:31:02] Okay, listen, I'm willing to try to see Twitter not always with the worst possible motive in mind.  

Beth [00:31:11] It contains multitudes. I've noticed where I will see people saying, and lots of different groups of people, saying some version of my group of people used to have a code that was just for us. And now I feel like lots of people outside my group have co-opted that code, and we don't have it anymore, and how do we get to just speak to each other sometimes? And then I watch reactions to that which, you know, have a broad range and often it will be a person who is not part of the group coming in to say, I know, right? I can't believe how people outside the group come in and you think, like, Oh, I think maybe you should read this again. But I have tried to take that and really sit with it and think about what it means. Because as a person who is, dramatically, mostly in groups that are not marginalized, there's just a ton of writing and thinking and discussion and hand-wringing about what is my role in anything. And sometimes you feel like your role is to really speak on behalf of others.  

[00:32:35] Maybe being an ally means that I am speaking up for others. And I think sometimes that's true. And I think sometimes you can do that in a way that is really insulting. Like I talked about on Tuesday, kind of flattens out the experience of who you claim to be advocating for. And I think sometimes you can do it well and appropriately. And I think sometimes it's obnoxious and kind of a taking on of an issue that doesn't belong to you. it's just complicated. There's not one answer. And I'm getting more and more comfortable with the fact that it's complicated and there's not one answer. What I think might be universal about that experience is that everybody has maybe a group of friends where you do a lot together in the group, but sometimes you really just want to interact with a small subset of that group. And that feels awkward and weird and icky, but we manage it anyway. I think there's something universal in all these experiences. What I want to push back against, I think, are are the comments that there is truly nothing universal about being a person because I don't feel that. I think there are vast differences in the way we perceive everything. And I don't mind, to Joe Danielle's point, to check in with that all the time and to be uncomfortable, to get it wrong.  

[00:33:56] I don't even mind doing all the disclaimers in the parenthetical, in the footnotes to everything I say in an attempt to do that. But I do struggle with the idea that there is no connective tissue in what we're all going through together. So I loved something that Susan said about this. She said, "I think there is a common experience in a broad sense. We all have pain, disappointment, joy, embarrassment, habits, things we inexplicably love and hate. Keeping this in mind helps me to interact and have empathy for people who have very different experiences in the micro sense." And I think that's where I am too. That I have a different experience as a white person, to be sure, and I miss a lot. And, also, the awkwardness of that, I hope, has some universality that everybody can relate to something that feels that version of awkward, and that is a place for us to begin together moving forward. And that's where some of the grace lives.  

Sarah [00:34:49] Yeah, because we all want belonging. And to remove belonging to one another as a human species from the table of options, I think is harmful. I don't want it to be the only option. Absolutely not. But I think it is true that we are all human beings having human experience, and I think the problem is that becomes like either the only option or the narrative becomes, well, that's like super comfortable that will like erase all the discomfort. Haha! No. That is also a group with a massive amount of discomfort in the experience, you know. And I get the reaction. Like, even with Felix, there is a dark voice in my head that every somebody says, "Well, I've managed type one diabetes, and Felix can too." I want to go, "Well, did you do it with Hemiplegia?" But that sucks. I don't want to be like that. That's not fair for Felix. That's not fair for that person. Like, maybe they didn't, but maybe they're managing something else Felix doesn't have.  

[00:36:02] And that management, that struggle, that putting the pieces together for yourself to figure out how it works, that process is universal. That grief, that struggle, that joy, that gratitude, that is universal to someone managing something like this, right? And to say, "Well, because it's not exactly like this, you don't know what it's like for him." I don't know what it's like for him, but how dare I even get defensive on his behalf? Like, I'm just a mother of a child with this disease, I don't have it myself. And also, right, there's universality among parents managing this. And it's just all those layers, but that complexity as a universe of stars still creates a solar system of stars, right? Like, it's all there. They're not exactly the same, but they share these characteristics and they guide us. And I think it's easy to get in a space where you can become defensive because you want -- I think about the phrase in AA all the time. I think it's called the curse of uniqueness, this idea that your problems are unique and there's no commonality in how to deal with your stresses or your problems or your trauma. And it's very toxic and it's very damaging.  

[00:37:31] And I remember the first time I heard somebody name it I thought, oh my gosh, yes. I see that everywhere. I see that with myself when I really struggled to accept help and to accept support. I see it in so many places beyond addiction, although it's definitely there and I see how it hurts us as humans. It hurts us as highly evolved social creatures to decide that there is something so unique to us that no one can understand because we're not supposed to be in a place where we're lonely and no one understands. I don't even think when you're doing it to create a group. Because if you make a group small enough where they understand everything about you and they're your only people, well, what happens when you have something they don't understand, right? And what happens when you're in this space with the small group and then all of a sudden you feel lonely inside that group, but you've taught yourself they're the only people that understand? That's the real danger of that way of thinking  

Beth [00:38:34] Without taking away from what you just said at all, I think it's valid to say, yes, you managed it, but did you do it with him Hemiplegia? That's a different experience. And I think it is totally valid for you as a mom to feel defensive of Felix and to have your own experience of this. This is the trouble with the chorus of 10,000. It's the great thing, and it's the terrible thing all wrapped up into one. And it's kind of what I was saying about Covidin the last episode. Everybody singing there has a point. Even those really negative voices that disconnect you from others, there's a point in that. There's something valid about it. There's some truth in it. What I feel like you just did in working through all of that in front of us is what I hope we can all get better at doing, which is saying, like, okay, I hear that. What do I want to do, though? What do I want to pursue?  

[00:39:25] Because if I constantly pursue the points of separation, that is going to leave us down a path that's pretty lonely where we cut ourselves off from a lot that could be positive and helpful and supportive. And I think that's why we wanted to discuss this topic in general, not to invalidate anyone's unique experience or experience that is different from other people's experience or that belongs to a particular group. All of that is valid. It is all reasonable. No one is trying to deny. No one here is trying to deny the truth of those things. It is to say, but what next? Where do we go with that? And how can we pursue connective things in the midst of hearing all of those particulars?  

Sarah [00:40:18] Now what? Perhaps.  

Beth [00:40:19] Now what? If you would.  

Sarah [00:40:20] And I think that's what the piece is getting that, right? And I think that's the unique danger of social media is that, you know, my therapist is like, "The feelings are not the problem. The actions in the face of the feelings are the problem." We cannot stop the feelings or control the feelings. We have to decide what to do with them. And I think we are at a particular point in American history where we have to decide what we're going to do with our feelings. We did a really good job as Americans at swallowing our feelings in pursuit of building a democracy, swallowing our feelings about some really heinous things like slavery, swallowing our feelings about excluding huge parts of our society, swallowing our feelings about abuses inside these institutions and pursuit of like this common good. Like, that's the constant balance of building community together and being a human is balancing those individual experiences and needs with the commonality in the common pursuit. And I think right now, with what the internet has like accelerated is, giving platform, giving power and turning those feelings very easily into harmful actions, right?  

[00:41:41] Like, there's no pause on social media. There's no pause on the internet from being angry to being able to take action about that anger at your fellow people, your fellow Americans or your fellow failures, or you know what else, and our institutions. And now I think that the hardening of the democratic institutions, like [Inaudible] he talks about open primaries. So if you're mad about your primary at least there's lots of other people with lots of other experiences and individual experiences that can vote in these primaries. So if I'm in Kentucky and I get that all of my fellow Kentuckians in this part of the state are way more conservative than I am and I'm going to get a Republican representative no matter what, fine. But at least I can influence the primary enough to prevent it from being an ideologue, right? And he talks about working on social media and the likes and the shares and just building in some moments of pause where there's mere milliseconds between the anger and the action and the frustration and the loneliness and the further separation, right?  

Beth [00:42:54] If you got lost in this, Sarah is referring back to a piece in The Atlantic by Jonathan Haidt about the fracturing of society. So that's the he that she's referring to, and these techniques, open primaries, et cetera, are about strengthening our institutions to deal with what we've termed the chorus of 10,000 voices.  

Sarah [00:43:12] Yeah, he has like three recommendations at the end. It's like strengthening our democratic institutions, regulating social media, and I think like protecting the younger generation from social media as long as we can until we can reform it and help it not play out so fully upon them as they grow and take ownership and guardianship and participation in these said institutions, right? And I think all of that is good and helpful because the reason this piece is hit, the reason our episode hit, the reason we're all so tied up in knots about this is, we get it. Something's happening. It is hard out there and not just on an individual level. It's playing out in Congress. I read in the New York Times about a retiring Republican congressman from North Carolina who was like, Congress is broken. It's awful, people are hateful and they can't get anything done. And he'd been there for, I think, 20 years. And speaking of this, like, we are at a crisis point. Things need some care. We need some care. We need to care for each other. We need to care for these institutions. We need to correct this ship, unless we want to further strain our democracy and keep sort of sleepwalking into authoritarianism. And I apologize for being hyperbolic, but I don't think I am being hyperbolic.  

Beth [00:44:40] Those tragedies that you mentioned where we swallowed our feelings and accepted unacceptable things in pursuit of commonality. I think that we are attempting to make amends for a lot of that through some of the angst created in our conversations that draw out that which separates us. I think we have a good intention of trying to make amends for a lot of that. And I also feel like actually making amends, which we need to do and which will serve us in so many other ways. I think there are people who hear we need to make amends for things in the past and and believe that that means that we do nothing that benefits all of us in the future. And I think they are completely aligned in terms of goal. I think the more we make amends, the more we are able to pursue our future together in a way that is beautiful and really beneficial to everyone. But the work of that is slow. On a community level, I just participated in a series of meetings among community members, parents, educators, business leaders to name the competencies that we want every graduate of my school district to have. And it was a facilitated process and there were over 100 people in the room for each of these meetings, and we would listen to the facilitator and then go into table work and then submit some feedback from our table into an app. And at the end we come away with we've named these things.  

[00:46:25] We want people to have to graduate from our school district with a sense of integrity. We want them to be lifelong learners, et cetera. And you get to the end of that process that you've invested a lot of time in and you can say, gosh, I've met some really interesting people doing this, and I think that naming these characteristics is really fantastic. And, also, this was tedious and we got to what is the tiniest starting point for the work that actually makes any of this real. Who knows how it's going to be operationalized? Who knows what's going to be lost in the process of operationalizing it? I looked at this list having subbed recently and thought, if I'm a teacher, I'm going to look at this and say, "Fantastic, when are we doing this? Because my day is overscheduled already. I already have too many things to do with these kids." And so I tell that story just to say I think this was the right process. I think gathering all those stakeholders in a giant room and taking us through the tediousness of being together in a giant room was exactly the right thing to do for a public institution as it makes big steps forward. I applaud everybody who was involved. I don't have suggestions on how to make it better because doing work together where you're really trying to be inclusive is hard and sometimes it doesn't move fast at all. And sometimes it feels like you went backwards instead of forwards as you listen to everybody. And I think adjusting our expectations for that work is a lot more helpful than yelling at each other about exactly how we've captured a thought in that online space.  

Sarah [00:48:07] That's what's so difficult about this moment. It is hard to do this work in slow. And also we don't have a ton of time. Like, the intensity in danger and concern to our institutions, from climate change to democratic participation like Tick Tock, you know what I'm saying? And so I think that's why I keep pushing so hard on the I'm not silencing your new unique experience. We have to find a way to integrate that if we feel like, oh, maybe my exact perspective wasn't heard or maybe my solution wasn't adopted and not translate then like you don't care about me and I'm absent from the group. Now, a common experience means in a group that often you will both feel included and part of being included in a big group is feeling frustrated. Like I said, I'm not erasing the discomfort. The discomfort elevates, right? But we can't get to change in transformative institutions and getting, you know, even a little bit closer to meeting everyone's needs while also making everyone perfectly comfortable and happy the entire time. It's going to be hard. But we have to move fast and we have to be able to name we share something, we share a goal. We're heading in a direction, we're in this together. Because you have to keep your eyes on that during tough transitions.  

[00:49:48] Like when you feel left out and you feel hurt and you feel silenced, to be able to name that and still check in with the like, okay, but this is where we're headed and I still want that. I'm still on. I still want to be a member of this group. Like, not to be like to woo woo about it, but like even as we start to talk about Earth Day, which is today and climate change, well, I'm still a human being who wants to exist on planet Earth. And so that's the mission. What else do we need to compromise on, talk about let go, change our perspective on like I've shared in the News Brief. I love this Audubon certification of like bird friendly to beef cattle ranchers. Bird friendly beef, if you're a cattle rancher. And I thought that's brilliant because instead of habitat protection at all cost, which is a noble goal. But assuming that both the cattle rancher wants to continue to exist on planet Earth and the Audubon people want birds to continue on planet Earth, we have that shared goal. And so maybe me protecting the habitat and excluding me from it is not the best strategy. Let's find a strategy that keeps us both in line with that goal, right? And I just think that we need more of that fresh thinking when it comes to these very, very, difficult problems we're facing.  

Beth [00:51:15] Well, next up, let's talk about Earth Day a little bit, and specifically about how parenting and Earth Day might overlap. As many of you know, we have a membership to Pantsuit Politics that involves getting Sarah's morning news brief called Good Morning, Monday through Thursday. And then in the evenings Monday through Thursday, I produce a focused discussion of one topic that's about a 10 to 15 minute podcast. And this week I celebrated Earth Week. I did something very different about the planet and the environment every day, and the most different of all was was Wednesday nights. Where I talked about free range parenting and its connection to raising climate conscious kids, building on the work of Lenore Skenazy, who's been talking about free range parenting forever, the thesis is basically the more unstructured, unsupervised time that kids have outside, the more they learn to kind of think like scientists and to discover things and to develop a real connection with the planet that causes them to want to care more for it. And, Sarah, I just wanted to bring this into our outside of politics segment, even though it's not that far outside of politics, because this was a conversation I wanted to hear your thoughts on.  

Sarah [00:52:39] Oh yeah, I've been reading and following Lenore Skenazy for so long. From way back in my mama blogging days, I think I did a free range challenge. I really, really, believe in this movement, and I try to do it as much as I can in a suburb where there are lots of cars, but I think it's so important. Not only because it builds a connection to nature, which obviously we care about. We spend every day vacation and national parks forcing our kids on long ice because we want them to love nature dang it. But I think to me, the importance of this and this interaction with nature is just so multifaceted, like it builds in dependance, it increases mental health. What did I read the other day? It was like it was wrapped up in all this mental health crisis with teenagers, and they were measuring how much time teenagers spend outside and then survey them on mental health. And it was like a huge difference if they spent like 10 plus hours outside every week. But I also I don't think we understand what happens when adults spend time outside as far as in nature, and I don't just mean like the individual benefit, I mean a very symbiotic relationship with our outside world, much less with what happens with kids. I just love all of this, I think is so important.  

Beth [00:54:08] I think it's totally uncontroversial to say that kids spending time outside helps increase their connection to nature. What I'm noticing with my kids and I talked about this on on the More To Say episode is that when I observe my kids, I am necessarily changing their behavior. And so when I am outside with them, even if they're having unstructured time, but I'm pretty close by, it becomes a lot a performance for me. Look at what I found, mom. I picked a flower for you, mom. Come see this mom. We're doing this, come watch. And some of that, I think, is really important and great. I love answering my kids questions. I love when they pick a flower for me. I love coming and seeing the thing that they've done. I also just realize more and more that I really inhibit their capacity for discovery when I am around and I inhibit their imaginations because when they just go for a couple of hours with their friends in the afternoon or on a summer day, they come back different kids really altered by it. And I think that's why both Jane and Ellen have a passion, like, honestly a passion that I struggle to connect with for the environment. As much as I care, I did not from birth, the way they seem to have, had this conviction like this is how we care for the Earth. We don't litter ever.  

Sarah [00:55:38] Oh, yeah. You don't litter infront of my children.  

Beth [00:55:40] Yeah, I know. Mine either. And I think it's fantastic and surprising and a gift and what I want more of. And I'm just trying to really ask myself, like, where else do I need to get out of their way to let them develop as humans who do exercise more care and do feel that symbiosis that you were talking about.  

Sarah [00:56:01] Well, and I just think you have to accept danger and risk. I've watched this so, so, long. As the mother of boys, I watched a lot of difference I noticed immediately when I started taking Griffin to playgrounds that there's just a higher tolerance of risk and danger with boys than there is with girls. I would watch so many parents hover over girls. Be careful. Be careful. Be careful. And I don't do that with my boys. Lots of people don't do that. Some people do. I don't because as we started coming out of Covid, I had so much anxiety about my family traveling and me traveling. And my therapist was like, well, you're out of practice because you haven't had those experiences where everything turned out okay to remind your brain. And I think that's what happens when we monitor our kids play and we protect them all the time is they don't get practice. Oh, that was dangerous. Like, they don't learn their own calibration, especially outside to is this risky? Is this sharp? How does this work? I think that's what the free range parenting is so powerful. It gives them a chance to test their own boundaries, to learn their own limits.  

[00:57:08] It sucks. As a parent, I hate it. I remember one time sort of being upset in therapy about something my kid was struggling about with, and my therapist at the time was like, "Did you expect them never to to suffer or be sad?" And I was like, no, rude, just on my pre-approved ways that I had already planned out to be developmentally appropriate, obviously. I wanted it to be under my control. So a free range parenting is very good for me. And so I just think that that is that learning of it and that interaction with nature, even I think there's an important part of ecological awareness and investment that is about like this is bigger than I control, and this can be big and dangerous. Like, how much more understanding do you have of extreme climate events if you've been like in a thunderstorm, right? Like, if you've been caught in a dangerous moment in nature, there's a part of it like not just loving the Earth as this giving supportive presence that we enjoy, but also like appreciating how big and bigger than us it is, right? I think that there's parts of that that need to be at play to.  

Beth [00:58:27] Like a respect component. 

Sarah [00:58:28] Yes, absolutely. Absolutely.  

Beth [00:58:31] Just understanding I am very, very, small. I mean, Chad says this all the time when we have conversations with the kids about climate change, especially if they learn something at school that day and they say something really dramatic, like, well, it's going to be the end of the world. Chad says the Earth's going to be fine. The Earth will continue. The question is, are humans going to continue and what will the conditions of life be like for humans? Because all of this going on around us does not depend on us. Get it right. We depend on it, not the other way around. And it just helps me to kind of put everything in perspective with them, like what is our role here? There is both an aspect of responsibility and a reduction in pressure when you look at it that way.  

Sarah [00:59:22] When we went with Felix through the Field Museum because he's really into dinosaurs, and you walk through this part that's like the first life altering climate event, the second life altering climate of human history, like you kind of walk through these and you just remember, like, there is no stasis here. Stasis is something we created in capitalism to make ourselves feel better, but it doesn't exist. You know, like, stasis is not a thing in nature, in life, ever. And being out in nature exposed to the elements, exposed to the danger of the elements is just a good reminder of that. Like, stasis in this sort of control that we tell -- and I think that's true of nature. I think that's true of human life and human life experience, it's certainly true of parenting. I also think it's true of democracy. Like, we don't get to a place where we're like, we did it. Dust off your hands, everybody. Good job, we're done here. We can move on to the next thing. It's just not. I hate it. I think it sucks. As enneagram one do not like. One star. Do not recommend. But it is the reality that I have to remind myself of every day and being out in nature and including like sort of the danger of being out there. And I think this is like the foundation of free range parenting is just reminding yourself of that constantly.  

Beth [01:00:47] We are often asked why we feel hopeful about climate change, and I do. I feel very hopeful. I'm very concerned and I'm very hopeful because we are doing so many things better and the trajectory of doing better I feel accelerating. And I love this formulation from The Washington Post interview with Rick Landreth, who is a Christian ecologist who happens to go to church with one of our listeners. We found out after posting this link. He says that he can describe climate change in 17 words. "It's real. It's us. It's bad. It's going to get worse. There's hope if we act now." And I love that it's real. It's us. It's bad. It's going to get worse. There's hope if we act now. Which felt like the right Earth Day sentiment to conclude with. And we will link that Washington Post piece in the show notes so that you can check it out. Thank you again for joining us and for, in so many ways, opening your ears and your hearts to us for sharing your stories by email, in comments, in DMs for bringing such beauty to the chorus of 10,000 and for supporting our work. So one more quick reminder on that supporting our work portion that we would so appreciate you pre-ordering our book. Now what? Anywhere you purchase books. We'll be back with you next week. Have the best weekend available to you.  

[01:02:10] Pantsuit Politics is produced by Studio D Podcast Production. Alise Napp is our managing director.  

Sarah [01:02:15] Maggie Penton is our community engagement manager. Dante Lima is the composer and performer of our theme music.  

Beth [01:02:21] Our show is listener-supported. Special thanks to our executive producers.  

Executive Producers (Read their own names) [01:02:25] Martha Bronitsky, Linda Daniel, Ali Edwards, Janice Elliot, Sarah Greenup, Julie Haller, Helen Handley, Tiffany Hassler, Emily Holladay, Katie Johnson, Katrina Zugenalis Kasling. Barry Kaufman, Molly Kohrs.  

[01:02:43] The Kriebs, Laurie LaDow, Lilly McClure, Emily Neesley, Tawni Peterson, Tracy Puthoff, Sara Ralph, Jeremy Sequoia, Katy Stigers, Karin True, Onika Ulveling, Nick and Alysa Villeli, Katherine Vollmer, Amy Whited,  

Beth [01:03:01] Jeff Davis, Melinda Johnston, Ashley Thompson, Michelle Wood, Joshua Allen, Morgan McHugh, Nichole Berklas, Paula Bremer and Tim Miller.  

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