"The Olympics show us that we are together but separate."
Topics Discussed
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Episode Resources
Why we can be confident that the surge in coronavirus cases isn’t the fault of immigrants (The Washington Post)
Transcript
[00:00:00] Beth: We heard from a lot of people after last week's episodes that they felt like we were too grace-filled, that we were like trying too hard to say, let's have empathy for other people. Let's be patient with folks who haven't gotten the vaccine. This, the people who not only are making choices for themselves that are different than the choices I would make, but want everybody to agree with them and want everybody to come along and be, and want to actually prevent people from doing what they think is right in these circumstances based on information, right where they are, this is where I lose all of my ability to be patient.
Sarah: This is Sarah
Beth: And Beth.
Sarah: You're listening to Pantsuit Politics.
Beth: The home of grace-filled political conversations.
Sarah: Hello everyone and welcome to another episode of Pantsuit Politics. As always are so happy to be here with you. On today's episode, we're going to talk about the Delta variant and what's going on in Florida. We're also going to talk about the Olympics now that the closing ceremonies have taken place and outside of politics, we're going to talk about back to school.
So before. Started. We wanted to tell you that there's new fan art in the Tee public shop for August. We love it so much when you share pictures of your pantsuit politics merch. We really believe in the power of conversations that we have here in this community and we believe bringing more people into those conversations matters and sometimes the best way to grow this big messy internet table we share together is for you to share the show and what a great way to do that by wearing your merch so every time you post about an episode or mention it to a friend or wear a t-shirt, it really does make a [00:02:00] big difference too.
[00:02:01] Beth: We also want to remind everyone that we have our one and only live show of 2021 coming up in Waco, Texas on September 25th with our good friend, Clint Harp of the Man Unmade podcast, as well as Restoration Road and you might have met Clint on Fixer Upper. We are really looking forward to that conversation. We're really looking forward to being together in community. We're so excited that many of you have already bought tickets and booked your stays for a wonderful weekend in Waco. So we hope to see you there.
[00:02:31] Sarah: Beth. I've made a decision moving forward, as I think, and talk about the pandemic. I think I'm going to start calling it Delta instead of COVID because it helps me remember that this is a new and different situation and it just sort of, it's a [00:03:00] mental trigger for me that the behaviors and lessons I learned in 2020 no longer apply with this variant. I really feel like this. I feel like the more we understand about the Delta variant, the more we understand about how contagious it is, about how it affects people, that the conclusions I made from 2020 are no longer relevant in a lot of ways.
[00:03:28] Beth: I did just a big dump of my feelings for Monday's Nightly Nuance about coronavirus in general and where we are with the pandemic and I similarly talked about.For me the need to prioritize humility right now. Just a sense of everything I don't know, because I think that I got myself into a space a few months ago where I felt like I get this, I understand it. I know what we're facing. I know what the tools are. I know where we're headed and Delta has really disrupted that for me and remembering that we are in a new stage, that there [00:04:00] are so many unanswered questions, that people are making their best guesses again, instead of acting on, you know, certain tested, scientific advice is really, it's really important to me. So I like that. I endorse your mental trick.
[00:04:14] Sarah: Well, and there's so many things. You know, everybody knows I've been very optimistic, particularly in the last six months and let me be clear. I'm not making up new names for the vaccines. Miracle is still the name that I call the vaccines, right? Like I still think that they are incredibly powerful tools. You know, what I've been telling people is, you know, I didn't want to die of COVID. That's what I did not want. That was my goal. I did not want to die from this virus and I feel 100% as close as you can get anyway, protected from that even with Delta.
There's a part of me that thinks like, should we stop talking about it as a pandemic because this is clearly now, as you've been saying for a long time, a part of our lives. We're not going to reach some magical finish line wherever we all get to proclaim it over and, and [00:05:00] move on and honestly, like I wasn't alive in 1918. I don't know like how that worked the pandemic from the early 20th century, it turned into the flu we experienced today. So clearly, like it wasn't some sort of magic finish line where they beat it. Like it did become a sort of part of everyday life and much of the way I anticipate this particular virus becoming a part of everyday life and something that we have to make changes in our habits, be it masks during cold and flu season. Be it vaccines and boosters, be it both and I just think that's something to keep in mind.
[00:05:35] Beth: Yeah. I don't think we've maybe fully hashed out how we're making decisions. Here's where I am with Delta. I am not altering what we do in our lives based on Delta. I went to our conference in Nashville. I have plans to travel. I'm not worried at all about sending my kids to school. I think that we need to resume our activities and [00:06:00] I feel pretty good about that. I am wearing masks in those, most of those places. If I am near other humans, I can't really distance, especially if it's a place where I can tell it's just not well ventilated, I'm wearing a mask. My kids are going to wear a mask when they go to school, whether it's the school's policy or not at that time for a while and I'm going to watch those numbers and just see how it goes. So that's kind of my decision tree right now. Where are you with with that, Sarah?
[00:06:24] Sarah: No. I think that sounds about right. I do agree that it doesn't feel well thought out. I don't feel particularly well guided because my brain says this is so much more contagious than what we were experienced in 2020 so why are we not shut down? Honestly? But then I think, well, we have the vaccine and the flu is very dangerous and we do not shut down every flu season and so I'm trying to sort of walk through that risk analysis and I think it's like, we've talked about [00:07:00] before, because we're basically talking about, you know, two pandemics because we have the unvaccinated and the vaccinated and it's really difficult.
I mean, I think as a vaccinated person, I feel protected against hospitalization and death and that's definitely why I think so many of us were fully locked down in 2020, and that's what we were scared of and I feel protected against that and so I am moving about the world, but it sucks because that old anxiety is back. That old wondering about who around me might have Delta? Have I had Delta? Am I going to get Delta? Like I didn't miss that. I did not miss that mental load at all and there's a lot of resentment that is back and there's a lot of stress and anxiety because I don't think they're really easy answers to that risk assessment.
You know, I'm back to the feeling of like, if I'm outside, I'm not going to think about it. If it's inside though, it's harder in like, it's not like all the restaurants are shut down like they were in 2020. There's a lot of eating. There's a [00:08:00] lot of, well, are we comfortable eating indoors? You know, I'm planning a girl's trip to New York city and I gotta be honest that calculus is easier once they put out this key to the city and you know, like wherever you're moving about New York city, people are vaccinated. That'll make it a lot easier and I think that, that, you know, Bringing that calculus back and realizing like, this is where we are for the long haul is like constantly making this calculus is it's frustrating. It's really, really hard and frustrating and I felt it very profoundly as we traveled to the conference and as I've been traveling over the weekend to Lexington to see my friend who came back from Germany, it's just, yeah, it's sucks.
[00:08:35] Beth: Hearing you say that helps me better understand what we're going to talk about next with Florida because you're right. Like, there is this sense of it's so much more contagious, why are we not going as fully restrictive as we did in 2020? And I think that we knew this in 2020, but it was hard to feel it, that we went so restrictive and I hate to even say lockdown [00:09:00] because we really didn't lock down right the way that other countries did but all of the closures that we required in 2020, the purpose was not to keep us from getting sick on its own, right? The purpose was to keep our healthcare system from being burdened to a point of collapse because we didn't know what we were dealing with, because we were still learning how to treat people, because we weren't sure we had enough equipment and we came out of that sooner than we would have if the goal had just been to keep us all from getting sick and if the goal were only to keep us from getting sick, we'd probably be in that stage again right now, right.
But I don't think anybody's thinking about seriously going back there because we feel like our healthcare system is handling this because of the vaccines and that's why I think what's happening in Florida provokes a lot of emotions especially for me. I just think governor DeSantis is so callous in his messaging because I understand [00:10:00] a good faith argument about keeping the economy running, keeping schools open, not repeating what could be seen as a mistake from 2020, although I'm not ready to do that Monday morning quarterbacking yet. I understand a good faith argument about that. What I do not understand is deciding in the process of being determined to keep those things moving, we are going to actively prevent measures to keep people as safe as we can while it's, while it continues to move.
[00:10:31] Sarah: Okay. We're going to shift into the righteous anger portion of the program now, because I have a lot of it directed at governor DeSantis. First of all, I have decided that I think every time I speak at Ron DeSantis I'm going to call him Yale university and Harvard law graduate governor Ron DeSantis. Now, listen, that is no shade if you went to Harvard or Yale. If I went to Harvard, if gotten into Harvard and Yale gone too, but this populous Trumpian crap he pulls while going to two of the most elite, intellectual institutions in the country pisses [00:11:00] me off and I think he should get called out on it more. So that's the first thing. So let's talk about Yale university and Harvard law graduate Ron DeSantis.
I saw on my Facebook feed two weeks ago and I made a mental note to go back and say, see, it didn't happen. A lot of they're going to shut the country down. A lot of the fear-mongering, a lot of the they're going to take us back to lockdowns and he even mentioned in his press conference it, president Biden wants to take us down to lockdown. He never said that. No one said that. In fact, the opposite, Dr. Fauci said, I don't see us returning to lock down. There's no need for that. Like that is so. Blatant transparent fear-mongering in politics, like it makes me furious. So that's the first thing. Shut that down wherever you hear it, this lockdown crap, because that's what they're doing. They're trying to scare people. They're trying to say, see, they're going to lock us down again when literally no one is talking about that. Literally. No one is talking about that.
And the other part of the like gross politics this man is playing [00:12:00] while, while his state had a 50,000 new cases in one day, one day that he could do this while it is his actual job to run the state that is in the middle of a massive surge is just so disgusting to me. Then the next part of the fear-mongering he was doing is the, well, why don't you do your job? Why don't you get this border secure and implying that the Delta surge is because of some sort of border issue and border crisis. We know where Delta came from. It came from India and Britain. You don't exactly walk your way to the United States across the border in Mexico, from Britain and India. Give me a freaking break. He it's just the worst. I am sorry if you live in Florida, I really am. I feel so terrible that this man is your governor because he is the literal worst.
[00:12:58] Beth: You remember, in [00:13:00] 2016, we had a conversation about how foreign policy shifts are very, very slow, no matter what political party wins the presidency. Like the difference between a Hillary Clinton and a Jeb Bush would be minuscule on foreign policy and that happens because the person who sits in that chair gets access to all this information and whatever you thought coming into that chair, you sit in a new chair and you get a new perspective and that new perspective changes how you act. This is what scares me about Ron DeSantis and about a lot of the sort of Trump 2.0s. They get a new chair and they refuse to have a new perspective.
I understand what Ron DeSantis ran on. He surely knows some different things sitting in his new chair and he refuses to act on them and he understands well that when he says [00:14:00] schools can't mandate masks, he's not only saying schools, can't mandate masks. He's saying, and parents, you shouldn't force your precious children to wear them either and parents usually he says it, you should let your kids breathe. You should let them see each other smiles. He knows what he's doing. I can't imagine sitting in his chair with all the access to information and data that he has and deciding I am not only not going to be helpful, but I am going to prevent other people from being helpful here too.
[00:14:32] Sarah: I mean, he has to understand that Florida has more children in the ICU than any other state. He has to understand that there are children fighting for their lives against the Delta variant while he prevents schools from mandating masks. I mean, even the governor of Arkansas came out and said that law was a mistake. We shouldn't have done that. We need to allow for an exception for schools to mandate mask. The governor of Arkansas. It's not like Arkansas is California. [00:15:00] Jesus. I just, I agree. I think that when, when there's literal life and death, You see these numbers, you know, what's happening across the state and you still are so power hungry and look, he is like a Cuomo-esque enemy maker. It feels like from what I've read about his politics, like he just goes around, making people mad and making enemies.
Like there's one woman, I can't remember her name that used to be one of his advisors who now works for Trump and the only joy I have in life is hoping that that woman is plotting his down fall as much as anybody else. I mean, I feel like the best case scenario is Trump says uh, in an effort to sort of undercut him and take out his biggest competition, oh, you're my VP and then what would he say? He can't say no. So we'll see. I just, I think that he is so power hungry and so political while also being someone who, again, went to Harvard and Yale, it's not like he doesn't know. It's not like he doesn't know how to be analytical and critical in the face of all this information [00:16:00] about how the people in his state are being racked by the Delta variant. It's just whatever, he's the grossest. He is the grossest.
[00:16:07] Beth: I heard someone say about Josh Holly, after January 6th, the conversation went like, how does Josh Holly sleep after what unfolded on January 6th and what he did to add to that? And the other person in the conversation, I wish I could remember who it was said, rest assured, Josh Holly would run over his grandmother if it made him the president of the United States and I think that's what you see happening with Ron DeSantis. This is just pure ambition and look at what he's willing to do in the process to get there and watch Florida's numbers. You know, all of these people who were writing think pieces about when does Ron DeSantis get his apology? I'm glad we held off on that because Florida's numbers show, it is so unfair to the people of that state to have all the tools that we have to prevent this and have it happening anyway.
[00:16:54] Sarah: Yeah, he was so smug with his look at what a great job I [00:17:00] did in the state of Florida and now the numbers are taking off and to try to deflect blame to the border or to distract with some false claim of coming lockdowns. Uh, it just, it I'm disgusted in case I can't use that word enough.
[00:17:17] Beth: And if you are listening to this conversation and having discussions with people in your life about the border and COVID, the Washington post has a very good piece explaining how nonsensical the idea that this is a problem born of illegal immigration is so we'll link that in the show notes to try to give you some talking points. Although again, I don't think that's a factual discussion. I think that this goes back to our inability to grapple with how fragile we are. I think it's really hard. Like psychologically, it is hard to say, I think we did the vaccines. We made it through the economic downturn. We have, we've done everything we can short of everyone [00:18:00] actually using those tools to get past this and still there's a variant like the idea of a virus that wants to survive enough to shift itself to evade human technology is hard and so I think when we're talking about, well, it's immigration, we're just using that to cover how very, very hard this is, but we do have some good facts for you on that from the Washington post if you'd like to use them,
[00:18:24] Sarah: it's just confirmation bias, pure and simple. It's the, I refuse to acknowledge that my side, my political side was wrong. Now you could do that early when there weren't a lot of COVID cases. You could even do that late when COVID cases were really, um, focused on certain parts of the population, but you cannot do that with Delta. You cannot say, it's not that bad. It's not worse than the flu it's blah, blah, blah. You can't do that anymore. So you better find somewhere else to go and point the blame and so they've decided borders. When I heard him say that, I thought you, you Craven, [00:19:00] Craven, man. Like, but that, but you know, where I saw it? One of my family members sharing it and being like, yeah, punch Joe Biden's dentures out. Of course, you're right.
It's just, it is so disheartening, but it's not surprising again because it's not like everybody's going to wake up tomorrow and say, man, this political view, I've held my whole life and all the leaders I follow really where the worst, although, worth pointing out, lots of people actually have done that through the course of the Trump presidency. But if you follow Trump, if you made your family members uncomfortable, it's like, if you're throwing good money after bad, then, then this isn't going to stop you. You're going to follow Ron DeSantis right off that cliff.
[00:19:37] Beth: We heard from a lot of people after last week's episodes that they felt like we were too grace-filled that we were like trying too hard to say, let's have empathy for other people. Let's be patient with folks who haven't gotten the vaccine. This conversation we're having right now is where my real emotion sits. Like I genuinely understand why people have not gotten the vaccine yet. I genuinely do not want to force anybody to [00:20:00] get it. I want people to come along on their own and arrive at that decision.
This, the people who not only are making choices for themselves that are different than the choices I would make, but want everybody to agree with them and want everybody to come along and be, and want to actually prevent people from doing what they think is right in these circumstances based on information, right where they are, this is where I lose all of my ability to be patient because I, again, I just can't imagine having this level of power and using it so recklessly.
[00:20:33] Sarah: I have no grace for Yale graduate and Harvard law graduate Ron DeSantis in summary.
Up next, we're going to talk about the Olympics.
Closing ceremonies were this weekend for the 2021 summer Olympics [00:21:00] in Tokyo and Beth, it felt like with the crowds and a lot of the pageantry stripped away, both of us were asking, what exactly are we doing here? What exactly are we doing here with the Olympics?
[00:21:15] Beth: Yes. I was having a conversation with friends about how everyone takes in the Olympics and one friend was saying that she watches and thinks, oh, I could do that. That'd be fun. I could do that and another friend was watching thinking, I could never do that. Oh my gosh, that's amazing. I could never do it and I said, I always watch and I want to go up to the athletes and say, are you okay? Do you feel loved enough? Are you happy? Is this where you want to be right now? You don't have to do this and I think that that was even more pronounced because it was such a weird stripped down Olympics.
[00:21:47] Sarah: Well, we started with cause some controversy before we even got to Tokyo, we had Sha'carri Richardson who's 21. She had won the 100 meter race at the U S Olympic trials. She set a new American record and [00:22:00] then she tested positive for marijuana and her time and record were voided and she was suspended from the sport for 30 days and missed the 100 meter event. Um, and she spoke afterwards that she was dealing with grief from the loss of her mother. There was lots of outrage on her behalf that this would eliminate her from the Olympics in particular, because we also had Alan Hadzic who went to the Olympics with the fencing team as an alternate, despite facing several accusations of sexual assault.
So before we even got there, we had this thing where like, what are we doing? Not allowing this amazing athlete to compete because you use marijuana, which is legal in half the United States and doesn't for all I know, affect your athletic performance and then we're allowing this guy to go as an alternate. It's not like he's essential and even if he was who cares. He has all these credible accusations of sexual assault against him. So I didn't feel like we were off to a bad start and that's not even touching on COVID and should we be having an [00:23:00] Olympics? Like the Japanese people were like, we don't want this so it just, I feel like it was a mess before we even got there.
[00:23:06] Beth: Japanese people were like, we don't want this and they invested so much money to be able to host it without any of the return on that money coming to them. I mean, this was an economically terrible decision for Japan and I think about that a lot because I, I think one of my main criticisms of the Olympics has to do with all of the sort of corruption at the IOC and what feels like just a gross decision-making process around what city is going to get to capitalize on all these really talented athletes while those athletes sleep in these weird Olympic villages that sound totally disgusting to me, not in a non COVID world and so I struggle with all of that, but then to see it play out where there's not even an upside for the host city, it was stark. [00:24:00]
[00:24:00] Sarah: Yeah. I mean, the, the estimates of what the Olympics cost Japan is somewhere around 23 billion. Now they have a $5 trillion economy. It's not going to put them in some sort of like recession, but the government really sold it to the people of Japan that it would jumpstart their economy. You know, they've been sitting on two decades of stagnation. They had damaged from the earthquake and the tsunami in 2011 and the games were supposed to sort of pull them out of this funk and by branding, right. Branding and exposure and to me, maybe that's the perfect and most transparent way to look at the Olympics is even the host cities see it as an opportunity for branding, right? Like that, it's all about this brand and exposure and that's, what's fueling the host that is decision and honestly, isn't that what's fueling a lot of the Olympics is this sort of, we just want to brand you, you want to be the best in the world that will expose you to all these branding opportunities and funding [00:25:00] opportunities and sportswear and nobody wants to get on the Wheaties box. You know, like I just think you know, we're debating this, but isn't the one of the main fuels for this entire flame, if I just want to go ahead and carry that metaphor through, is branding, marketing. Yeah.
[00:25:16] Beth: As I was thinking about this conversation, every criticism I have of the Olympics is really not a criticism of the Olympics. The Olympics are just another platform to think about things that bother me in our world and being such a branding culture is one of those things. It really depresses me that you would strive for this level of athletic excellence and the best that you can hope for from that is a chance to promote a bunch of stuff on your Instagram. You know, it's just, it's it's weird.
[00:25:52] Sarah: Well, and that really came to fruition, really bubbled to the top and this Olympics, because we [00:26:00] had two huge controversies. The first Simone Biles dropped out of the gymnastic team competition, citing mental exhaustion and mental health challenges and then we also had Naomi Osaka representing her home country of Japan who lost at the Olympics after she had cited mental health, stress and exhaustion in earlier tennis competition. Both of them received a huge amount of criticism. People were so ugly that even Sean Hannity came to their defense. If Sean Hannity is telling you to take a breath, relax, reset, and not be mean to people, you need to examine your life. That's all a gotta say.
[00:26:39] Beth: I don't really want to rehash the Simone Bile stuff, because I think the kindest, most generous thing we can do for Simone Biles is take her name out of our mouth for a while like just leave her alone. We do not need another think piece on that. Like just let her be but this again is just a reflection of another, like almost culture war issue that we're having in the United States, right. [00:27:00] That reaction that I have to the athletes of. Are you okay, is how I feel about everyone who is working exceptionally hard and striving to be at the top of their field because I think we have such an obsession with that, and I hear so many people just in my life, as you have conversations about education and should we have grades or not, and should everybody get a participation trophy?
Like I think we have a struggle right now in this country over what level of excellence we think is healthy for you? I think some of us are asking that question and other people are hearing, we don't care about excellence. Right, excellence is not worthwhile. Excellence is a tool of capitalism and patriarchy and excess and being woke means I don't want anybody to be excellent at anything and I don't think that's it but I do think it's a really hard conversation, especially as I think about something like the Olympics, where I, I do enjoy seeing people who are truly excellent at what they do and I worry about them the entire time I'm [00:28:00] enjoying their excellence.
[00:28:01] Sarah: Yeah. I'll say this about SImone Biles. My frustration was not with the critics who I think were trolls and we all know that, right. My frustration was honestly, with everyone wanting to turn her into a hero. She does, that's exactly what she does not need. The point of mental health exhaustion and the pressure she felt is that there's too many people looking to her for, to be the best to be the solution, to be the hero, to hold up all of humankind, much less, much less like Black womanhood or, or all athletes or all Americans and how about we just give her a dang break, whether it's flying through the air as a gymnast or advocating for mental health, like she doesn't need that pressure.
She doesn't need us all saying she's a hero for doing something different when the reason she was exhausted is because we were all turning her into a hero. It was so frustrating to me. I felt like really with the best of intentions, like who, people who care about mental health, who [00:29:00] feel that exhaustion, who wanted to say, do a great job, but you know, Half the American population, much less half the world's population telling you you're a hero, it's just a different kind of pressure. The pressure she felt in the mental exhaustion, she felt did not just come from her critics, y'all. It came from all of us, including myself who would say, look and see Simone Biles. She learned to fly. Isn't that amazing? And like tell it saying she's the goat. I wish we just stopped with the goat crap across the board.
Let's just eliminate that expression from our lives because to me it's not excellence that's the issue. I think human beings are built to pursue purpose, are built to pursue excellence. To me the debate that we're having the issue at hand is the audience and the size of that audience. I posted on Instagram then I listened to an episode of You're Wrong About on cancel culture and they talked about that there's all the science that about the right size for [00:30:00] humans is 200 people. That's a good size, it's a good size community and I think striving for that level of excellence in front of 200 people is perfect, fine. Great. I think about this all the time with pop culture and fame. I would have lived a fine life and never known it was missing if I'd never heard Whitney Houston's voice. If Whitney Houston had sang for about 200 people inside her local church or at some parties, and those people would have gotten that gift and she might still be with us, that'd be great.
You know, like when the Olympics started, even though it was a worldwide competition, that was a different thing. I don't think anybody, any single human being, I don't care how good of an athlete they are, is built to pursue excellence in front of a global community. That's too many people and it is certainly too many people, if you're 18 years old. Two thirds of Olympic athletes are in their twenties. [00:31:00] They're very young and that level of pressure at that time in your life in front of a global audience is not something anyone is built for and that's why they are all struggling no matter how good they are at the sport, be it Michael Phelps or Simone Biles or Naomi Osaka.
[00:31:19] Beth: So I like that and I'll take your 200 down even further. The best leadership advice I ever received came from Pete Strange, who was the CEO of Messer Construction, a pretty big company in Cincinnati that has a great culture and he told me that it doesn't matter how gifted you are as a leader. You can really only care about six people in your business because people are people and because of what you're able to give them and what they're going to need, six people is about right and you should build your organization around the idea that people care about teams of six, because more than that is too much and so when you think about, how these folks are asked, not only to perform at this [00:32:00] level, but to lead and to have things to say politically and to say the exact right thing, every time they're asked a question to reflect on their lives in real time, as they win a medal. It is an unbelievable strain and it's mostly happening to people who are under 30.
You know, it's happening at this moment in life when, how can you possibly be expected to on the fly, be able to eloquently answer a reporter's questions as you're physically exhausted from just going out and giving your very best and again, it's not that I think we should just shut it all down. I just want to ask questions about how can this happen in a healthier way for everybody and how can we, to your point, Sarah, about like, propping these folks up as heroes. How can we react to it in a healthier way? One of the biggest problems I have with people who I'm mostly politically agree with in the year of our Lord 2021 is this compulsion to put everybody on a t-shirt. Anthony [00:33:00] Fauci can't just be our top infectious disease doctor. He has to be a hero. He has to be the Mr. Rogers of our time. He has to be portrayed by Brad Pitt on SNL, and we have to hold him up because as soon as that pedestal starts rising, of course, the equal and opposite reaction is going to come about too and we saw that with these athletes as well.
[00:33:21] Sarah: Yeah, Ruth Bader Ginsburg, like Beyonce. That list is long, long. Well, and look, I don't lie. I don't watch the Olympics. It's not my thing. Sports are not my thing. Sports documentaries all day long. Sports are not my thing, but even I was swept up in some of the really incredible stories. I am so happy that this was the most gender equitable Olympics. Women were like 49% of the 11,000 athletes. That's fantastic. I think the introduction of new sports is really cool. I'm glad surfing got its day. I think that they put rock climbing in the Olympics is really cool and I mean, it is thrilling to watch [00:34:00] people like Katie Ledecky just excel, just cxcel, but even, you know, just a really incredible stories like Sunni Lee winning gold and all around and this pursuit of excellence. She's 18 years old. She's going to be a freshman in college. It's just like you find out their ages and you think I just that's too much.
Some of the skateboarders were like 14. There was a table tennis player from Syria who was 12 years old. Like I just coming from a country like Syria, a dictatorship to the Olympics at 12 and competing in table tennis. Like, no, and I like, honestly, even the older athletes, which I think some of those were the incredible stories of this Olympics. I think Allyson Felix is amazing and for her to see her be the most decorated American Olympian and track and field, and she is in her thirties and she has gone through so much, but like even the central part of her story, a big part of her story is how Nike tried to cut her [00:35:00] salary when she got pregnant and like, it's the battle of branding, right?
Like the central challenge is her battling this multi corporation to keep her branding in place and like turning and creating her own thing which again, it's not that I'm not inspired by that. It's not that I don't think Allyson Felix is incredible and deserves all the accolades. It's just, I think at what cost is all this? At what costs of these people? What does it teach us about consuming other human beings for our own inspiration and like, well, yeah, that might've been inspiring and it was cool to watch the ROC do that spider synchronized dancing thing but I would have been my week would have been fine without it too. You know, like I would have gone on, I would have never known it was missing.
I don't understand why Russia still competes, even though they're banned under the Russian Olympic committee. I think that's like its whole own thing. I just, I don't, there's just a real part of me that says it's not that I don't think there's positives, but I'm not sure they outweigh the negatives.
[00:35:56] Beth: I've thought so much about the Russian Olympic committee and I [00:36:00] think it reflects how much of the rest of the world is in a very different space concerning punishment than the United States is. We are a very punishment driven country. You see it in the number of people that we have in prisons. You see it in the conversations that we have about schooling. You see it in the way that we sanctioned people constantly for all the things as our seemingly best foreign policy tool and I just think the rest of the world is not as punishment oriented as we are here.
[00:36:34] Sarah: So where would you, if you had a magic wand to reform the Olympics, what would do?
[00:36:39] Beth: I would have it take place. This is a conversation that I had with Alise actually and I thought she had such a good idea that I want to piggy back off of. I would have it take place in the same place every year. I would say Greece. Y'all started this. You're going to build the magic Olympic village. It's going to be nice. We're going to let these athletes stay in nice places every single year. [00:37:00] We're going to have all the things built this one time, instead of trying to build pools and tracks that will not be used again and stadiums, that will mostly be abandoned. So we're going to do it all here in Greece. We're going to do it well and then every year we'll have a cultural host country.
Okay. We're gonna use the facility and but another country is going to get to host it culturally, because that way you could have countries like Namibia who could never, or not in the foreseeable future construct, economically what needs to be done for the Olympics to be there, but they could do their branding for the world. We could learn more about the globe instead of having the same big countries take the hot seat here. I think I would do it on a more rolling basis, because I think if you had, instead of just the summer Olympics and the winter Olympics, that it's February, and we are now doing the ice skating Olympics. I think it would pull some of the attention back in a healthy way. The people who are really invested [00:38:00] in the sport and care about it would have their moment, but the entire world would not be watching for a couple of weeks and I think that that might help and I would also, I don't think I can fully answer this question because I would also want to spend a lot of time interviewing athletes.
Not on camera, not the sort of Michael Phelps is weirdly walking us through every emotional trial of the Olympics that happened, but private conversations with athletes and coaches to say, what's broken here for you and how can we make it better? But I think as to the general public just spreading it out and having it kind of, there's an Olympics of something always happening would be helpful.
[00:38:40] Sarah: I think I just want an age requirement, honestly. It's just too hard. If you don't put a hard age requirement in place, I just feel like there's going to be these young bodies all over the world being put through physical feats that they're just, they shouldn't be putting, being put through. I would love to say like, you can't go to the Olympics until you're [00:39:00] 30. It just has been an age requirement fast and you can, and you can practice, but you also don't like it would, it would change the training, right. Instead of pushing yourself to the max, you're thinking I want to reserve, right. I want to keep my body intact. I want to keep my body functioning at a, at peak capacity so that I can do this in my thirties and really, you know, when the gold or whatever. I just wonder if an age requirement would really change our entire orientation and I just think mentally it would be so much better instead of having teenagers in front of a global audience with, you know, the weight of the world on their shoulders as they're pushing themselves to the max. I just, I just I'm thinking age requirement.
[00:39:46] Beth: And you, when you say age requirement, you mean like much older than where the sports are now?
[00:39:52] Sarah: Yeah. I mean, I think that it would say like you can't compete in the Olympics until your thity years old. So you can train through your twenties, but you would [00:40:00] w how different would your training be if you knew you couldn't actually compete until you're 30, right? You would protect your body instead of pushing your
[00:40:09] Beth: body. I want to ask you about one more thing, because we were having dinner and the Olympics were on last week and we were not real sure what sport we were watching, but the US was competing and instantly you were like, go go USA or like, and we talked about how, it's funny, how your brain just does that and I was thinking about how I think one argument for the Olympics is that it really does feel like a relatively healthy expression of patriotism. We're not at war with other countries. Our athletes, I thought, especially in this Olympics, our athletes behave so generously towards other countries. There's this real sportsmanship people, audibly, cheering, other countries on, and you still really are rooting for your country in the Olympics and I wonder how we could find [00:41:00] that elsewhere. What other manifestations could we have of that healthy patriotism?
[00:41:04] Sarah: Well, they had to cheer for each other. There was nobody else in the stands. Yeah. Listen, all, everything I've said about the Olympics is true and also I'm thrilled that we got the most metals and the gold medals and beat China. I don't even, I can't even explain why, why do I care? I don't know, because I think it is, it's like a low stakes. We get to cheer for our country, but there's not, you know, it's not a war. There's not violence um, at play, although there are real political cost as we saw with the Belarusian track athlete who pled for asylum in the middle of the Olympics.
For better or for worse, the Olympics is a reminder, a particularly intense one in the middle of a pandemic where we're really living our interconnectedness and in a, in a weird way. That it, it, it shows us that we are together, but separate, right? Like that we're all human beings. There is a literal level playing field in a lot of ways in some of these competitions, but that we are still nation states representing our people and [00:42:00] that you can only represent so many people at one time. Right. It's that weird paradox of like being on a global stage and feeling your connection to your home country even more, which is this thing I can just barely articulate. I'm sure the Olympic athletes feel that in a, in a very profound way that I don't and so, I mean, I think there's a place for that, but like all the changes that we talked about, I still feel like you'd get that. I still feel like you, you see that healthy competition.
Maybe we could get some more solidarity and interconnectedness of the United States if we had some sort of like state Olympics. You know, I love a good state competition. You know, I love to like give other states in the United States crap and I think that would be really fun. Maybe we need a United states Olympics where all the states and their athletes, and we can cheer and feel a little interconnected as the United States again.
[00:42:47] Beth: I actually love that idea, especially because we don't really get that through college sports anymore. It's become way too professionalized and you're not really attached to the place. That sense of place I think would be great. I do want us to have like one place where that [00:43:00] happens. I don't know who gets it, but I want one state to just build that facility. I really am bothered by the rebuilding of the facilities constantly.
[00:43:07] Sarah: Well, I mean, in the face of this United nations climate change report and how serious it's getting, the fact that you mean you, you do have to think about the climate impact and everybody flying to the Olympics and the building. I mean, there's a huge, huge climate impact from that competition that you cannot ignore and you cannot ignore the waste that goes into those Olympic competitions every four years.
[00:43:32] Beth: I would love for us to get excited about other competitions that are not athletic. Like, you know, the international choir competition is pretty amazing to watch, but it just, it, because it doesn't have the branding attached to it because we're not putting Sopranos on Wheaties, it doesn't get this kind of energy and maybe that keeps it a little healthier. So maybe what I'm looking for is not to bring everything up to Olympic level, but to bring the Olympics [00:44:00] you know, down to a healthier place for everyone. But it's not that I don't want the competition. I just, I just want to find a way to relieve some of the pressure climate wise, economically and in terms of mental health for everyone,
[00:44:25] Sarah: Beth what's on your mind outside politics?
[00:44:27] Beth: We started school next week. I say we, because it really does feel like I am going back to school in terms of my level of enthusiasm. I'm gonna buy myself something.
[00:44:34] Sarah: Well, and we, because our kids start on the same day. Yes.
[00:44:38] Beth: So, uh, next Wednesday, the kids start school. So I have been really trying to think about what are my intentions as a parent for this upcoming school year. Have you given this much thought Sarah?
[00:44:50] Sarah: No, cause I haven't been home long enough. I got back from our vacation and we went to podcast movement and then went to Lexington and sleeping on an air mattress for five nights. So I'm still [00:45:00] like fully not in that. I'm really excited to be in that mental place and I've been, I have been thinking about going back to school, but it's, it's just such a late start. I mean, our kids were out for the summer for three full months, um, which is definitely the longest summer vacation we've ever had and we have some fun things like a trip to the waterpark coming up. I mean, I'm, I'm, I'm sure the second I set foot back in my house, I'll be back in that frame of mind, but it is it's with Delta.
You know, my husband went to a meet and greet with the teachers and I don't know why people weren't wearing masks, but they weren't and him and so many of my friends were like, it was like a super spreader. So it feels, it still feels like things are a little bit up in the air because we're not home and so, you know, I, I w I'm excited to get in that frame of mind, but I'm not quite there yet.
[00:45:46] Beth: Okay. Well, I have to. Intentions and why don't you tell me what you think of them and help me think through them because they are totally contradictory. My first intention is to give us all the gift of routine. [00:46:00] I want to really lean hard into, we have a schedule. This is what we do every day. Not just you get on the bus, you come home on the bus then after school, we practice our instruments and we sit down and we get our homework done and this is what time we have dinner. I really need that structure. My kids need it. We have not had it for far too long so I'm really committed to that and Chad, I asked him what his intention is for the school year and he said that he really wants to work on cultivating independence in our kids and I think that goes right along with this sense of structure.
Okay and then my second intention, which seems to undermine all of that is that I want to, in my spirit maintain a real sense of flexibility. Because I don't know what the school year is going to look like. I want to be prepared for the call that we're going virtual or the bus is doing a triple run because we don't have enough drivers today or whatever it is. So [00:47:00] I want to keep a real lightness about myself and not, not have that crash that I felt last year when I learned we were going to be virtual again for a while.
[00:47:10] Sarah: Yeah, I'm a little fearful because, you know, because we are vaccinated and because of the entire conversation we had at the front of the show, that there is a part of life that is moving forward. I mean, we have travel planned for the fall. We have a team retreat coming up and so it does feel kind of intense to be in this place where we're going back to routine school's starting, but there is the risk that everything changes dramatically, but then there's this like double track where well life is still going on, right. I don't not anticipate school closing down. Your attitude is probably much more healthy because it just feels like how would that even work if we're going to like, keep on this double track of the vaccinated move forward and the unvaccinated don't or have to be, or everything shuts down because of that and our kids are not vaccinated [00:48:00] yet.
I can tell you one thing, September 1st, I'm gonna be on Dr. Facui's door, like knock, knock, knock. Where's that where's the emergency authorization for 12 and under. I need it to like get back a part of my brain and feel just a little less stressed and anxious. I am desperately looking forward to that moment and I do, for all of my talk at the beginning of the show. I mean, I guess it's appropriate that we're back. We start with Delta, we end with Delta because that's what life is like right now but I do feel like where we are right now with the Delta variant based on what happened in Britain and India will not last very long.
I think there, I can anticipate a situation where we've like burned through Delta and the vaccine comes for 12 and under where we're feeling a lot more helpful a month from now but again, That's not the only thing we're facing and because COVID is in our lives probably permanently now, like who knows what the next thing will be and like building up those muscles is intense and I feel like I am building them. I do [00:49:00] not feel rocked. I feel stronger than I did in 2019. I do and I think about that and I think my kids are stronger as we face the school year. I think at the end of the day, a lot of us, we've built a lot of emotional and mental strength and I don't think we talk about that enough and I think back to school is probably a good place to really focus on that.
That we spend a lot of time talking about the trauma of this pandemic and there has been a massive amount of it, but going through hard things makes you strong and all of us, including our kids are stronger for going through this. We are tired and we are anxious and there are a lot of mental health challenges but I do think that the human species is pretty resilient kids in particular and we will see some of that strength as we go into a new school year.
[00:49:42] Beth: I love that message and I wish I felt it. I don't feel stronger right now. I feel clearer. Like I feel like I have a real understanding of what I don't know and I think the things that I do know, and especially the things I sort of believe about human [00:50:00] nature, I feel, I feel more resolved about those and I also feel kind of broken. Just because of everything that we've been through and because of how little I know right now and because I hear you say, you know, Delta will go pretty quickly and I don't, I feel as sure about that, as I wish I felt, and I feel afraid to be sure about it because I, again, it's kind of like with school, I don't want that crash. I don't want to set an expectation and crash. I don't want to do that anymore. So I think my coping mechanism is to just say, no, this is just how it's going to be and then be pleasantly surprised when it's not, uh, instead of trying to do these sprints of optimism.
[00:50:44] Sarah: It's interesting how you talk about that like as orienting yourself in time. Let me say, I don't feel strong because I know what's going to happen or because I feel particularly optimistic and hopeful. I feel strong because I look back on what we've been through and I can say we got through it in that made us [00:51:00] stronger. It's really like understanding that no matter what the future holds, no matter what happens with Delta or with school, I can look back on myself and my husband and my kids and say, we got through that.
It was hard, but you go through hard things and you're stronger on the other end and you don't have to know what's going to come next and you don't have to feel optimistic that it will be easier, even if it's harder, which it most certainly could be. You know, as we all do from 2020, that we got through a really hard year, we did it. You know, it's, like I said, at the end of that year, we did the best we could and that's going to continue to be true and I think as we rack up those really hard years, And those really sort of traumatic things, it's important to look back and not just focus on the trauma and the hardness, but focus on our survival and our strength and our resilience and our grit and so it's really past oriented to me. I like to be optimistic about the future. I like to think that I like to be hopeful, but there is a part of me that's like, well, even if it doesn't, we did [00:52:00] it before and we can do it
[00:52:00] Beth: again. I agree with all of that and I just can't really like access it on a feeling level yet and it just might be awhile before I can and that's okay and that's why I think going into the school year, maybe the best thing for me is to have these two contradictory intentions, because that's just how it is right now uh, and it may always be like that in some respects and, and I know that how I process the school year will make a big difference in how my kids process the school year and so I want to set them up for a year where they're excited. They see the benefits of this. They see how positive it is to, to have things they're working toward on their own, uh, to be in a schedule and a routine and also they're ready if any of that changes or shifts.
[00:52:46] Sarah: Well, we are ready as things change and shift here at Pantsuit Politics to be together and to be with all of you. We thank you for joining us for another episode. We will be back in your ears on Friday and until then, keep it nuanced, y'all.
Beth: Pantsuit Politics is produced by Studio D Podcast Production.
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Executive Producers (Read their own names): Martha Bronitsky, Linda Daniel, Ali Edwards, Janice Elliot, Sarah Greepup, Julie Haller, Helen Handley, Tiffany Hassler, Barry Kaufman, Molly Kohrs.
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[00:54:16] Sarah: Oh yeah. I have no grace for a Harvard graduate and Yale, obviously this is at the end. I have no grace for Yale graduate and Harvard ledger law. One more time. I have no grace for harvard graduate. One more time. I have no grace for Yale graduate and Harvard law graduate, Ron DeSantis in summary.
[00:54:33] Beth's Child: *Crying noises*
[00:54:34] Beth: What happened to your eye?
[00:54:37] Beth's Child: I don't know something poked it.
[00:54:40] Beth: Where, what? What poked it?
[00:54:43] Beth's Child: I don't know.
[00:54:45] Beth: Okay. Everybody go around poking their eye mysteriously with an unknown source? Totally normal.
[00:54:51] Sarah: It's probably an alien.
[00:54:52] Beth: Probably