A Complicated Commemoration: One Year of Covid Vaccines

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CHARITABLE GIVING

Transcript

Denise Bell [00:00:00] And the benefit of community sponsorship, which has existed in this country for decades, is that everyday people come together to help directly welcome refugees or help resettle them, actually. And what that also shows is that not only is there welcome in the community; but also it says to our elected officials that we as people care so much about this, we're willing to put down what I call our diamond time. 

Sarah [00:00:32] This is Sarah Stewart Holland. 

Beth [00:00:34] And the Beth Silvers. 

Sarah [00:00:36] Thank you for joining us for Pantsuit Politics. 

Beth [00:00:51] Thank you so much for joining us for a new episode. Today, we are thinking about the state of the pandemic because a year ago the first vaccine was authorized on an emergency basis by the FDA. I'm having trouble with time, but I'm sure we'll get into that in this episode. Today is also Global Human Rights Day, so we invited Denise Bell of Amnesty International to talk with us about the status of refugees all over the world, different legal obstacles to welcoming people who are leaving difficult situations, and what we can do personally to be of assistance to folks who are fleeing terrible circumstances. And then Outside of Politics, because it is the end of the year with very calendar driven here today. We're going to talk about our approach to charitable giving. 

Sarah [00:01:39] Before we get started, we've had some deep and spicy conversations this week with Pantsuit Politics premium members. So just a reminder that you can check out our premium podcast for free for two weeks on Apple podcast subscription. We'll put the link in the show notes, and we'd love for you to join us there. 

Beth [00:02:02] Sarah, it's hard to believe, but Saturday, December 11th. 

Sarah [00:02:06] Wow. 

Beth [00:02:07] We got the authorization for the Pfizer vaccines to roll out on an emergency basis. 

Sarah [00:02:13] When I look back over this past year, it kind of makes me sad how quickly vaccines went from being like this miracle to solution to just being another problem to deal with. Right? Like it became getting people vaccinated, oh gosh, now we're just never going to get everybody vaccinated and getting people and we don't have enough. And then the waits were long. And how do you get an appointment and now well, now that people who want it have gotten it, now the people we have to get, the people who don't want it vaccinated and it just makes this kind of makes me sad. You know how defensive I am of this technology. I love it so much, and it makes me sad that we don't spend enough time thinking like, this is amazing. This vaccine is amazing, no less now than it was a year ago, and I just don't feel like we stood in that space for long enough, or, you know, even continue now to take moments to remember, like, yes, it is a struggle to get people to the clinics and the doctor's office to get the vaccine. But we can not lose sight of the fact that the vaccine itself is a miracle. 

Beth [00:03:22] I think that's so well said and reflective of how we're always at 100 or 0. 

Sarah [00:03:27] Mm hmm. 

Beth [00:03:28] In our discussion of anything like the vaccine can only be a miracle if everyone gets it. If it's 100 percent infallible, if there are no breakthrough cases, you know what I mean? It's a it's an amazing thing that science offered us. In another timeline. We could, with every new variant, be back to lockdown, serious restriction on activity. Enormous death numbers. 

Sarah [00:03:59] Or just be like 60 percent protected against severe disease or hospitalization. 

Beth [00:04:04] Right. So it is a really wonderful thing and it can be a wonderful thing, even if it's just one step in a process. You know, one step forward and said of all the way to COVID is over. And I think that maybe some of our inability to really celebrate the vaccine is that it is combined with enormous griefs because even with this miracle, a lot has been lost. And I think there is a grief around coming to grips with the fact that there isn't a COVID is over. I mean, there is there's a grief there. We haven't experienced a lot like that, at least. And you know, we're 40. We haven't experienced a lot in our lifetime where something horrible happens. And then it's not really over. 

Sarah [00:04:45] The fact that we didn't stand long enough in the position of like this vaccine is a miracle means that we also didn't celebrate that a certain phase of COVID was over. It was over. We will not go back to lockdowns. Right. And there were so there were so often, especially when Biden was elected, that you'd get these like like bubbling up on Facebook. I keep meaning to go back and search down a lot. A couple of my friends who posted, like, if it's going to just watch, it's happening. They're going to lock us down to be like, Hey, remember when you said this and it was wrong? I just want to remind you that that didn't happen because there there is a certain aspect of the pandemic that was over on December 11th of last year when we got vaccines. Life changed. Now it did not return to 2019, but that does not mean that it didn't change. I feel very different. I live differently now that there is a vaccine. COVID does not live rent free in my head the way it did before there were vaccines. You know, I trust the technology. Once it was out there, I felt like things were different. I don't have the anxiety I used to have moving about in the world and feeling like it was just like everywhere waiting to get me. I just don't. It's not that I'm not worried about breakthrough cases. It's not like especially before my kids are vaccinated. I didn't have some concerns or anxiety, but it was different. It felt very different than March 2020, where I was sitting in my living room thinking like, is is every single one of my family members going to make it through this. Like, it's different than that. It feels different. And I just just because there's the presence of some fear and some anxiety, and we're not back to 2019, like a light switch doesn't mean that we can't see that we have exited a phase that is forever behind us now because of the presence of these vaccines. 

Beth [00:06:27] So let's think about where we are right now with some numbers recognizing, first of all, that none of these numbers are perfect. There are a lot of questions about data gathering. It is miraculous that people are able to get two shots of the vaccine and anyone keeps track of that. But it is difficult, especially if you've gone to different providers. It's hard for any data collector to know whether you're on your first shot or your second or your booster. So these numbers aren't perfect, but in the United States, we know that about 476 million doses of the vaccine have been given. That's about 199 million people, or 60 percent of the population that's fully vaccinated worldwide. About 8.31 Billion doses have been given, 55.4 ish percentage of the world population has gotten at least one dose of a COVID vaccine. This number really blew me away. 31.49 Million doses are administered every day worldwide. 

Sarah [00:07:23] So that's what we know about the vaccine and where we stand with that. In the United States, as far as the virus itself, Delta strain is still the dominant strain of COVID in the United States. We're still gathering lots of data about Omicron. Early data from South Africa indicates that it could cause milder disease than previous variants. There was a really good article in The Atlantic that's that talked about like a super contagious but milder variant is good news because it means that it burns out quickly. That's sort of what happened with the 1918 flu pandemic. We're getting more data as well surrounding the vaccines and how they held up to these variants. Pfizer announced preliminary results of a study showing that the original two doses still protect against severe disease from the Omicron variant, but not infection and booster shots confer stronger immunity, probably not surprising. I don't think it's long before we stop talking about the booster shot as a booster shot and start talking about it as a third dose. Right now, we're averaging one hundred and twenty thousand new COVID cases per day and still thirteen hundred deaths per day. We will pass 800,000 total deaths before Christmas just in the United States, just in the United States, and I think it's likely that we'll get to one million deaths, which is so insane to think about, I just remember those press conferences where you could just see it on the Trump administration's faces, like they were terrified to use numbers like 500,000 or 300,000 or 200,000, and now here we are creeping close to a million people. 

Beth [00:08:57] And I think that gets to that sense that something that has inflicted that much death just doesn't end. Phases of it end. And you're right. Seasons of it end. But the impact of that doesn't end. And while I agree with you, I am making decisions differently because the vaccines, especially now that both my girls have both doses, there are places where hospital capacity, like some of those metrics that we've been focused on from the beginning, are trending in bad directions in Maine and New York and New Hampshire. Governors have asked the National Guard for help. The National Guard's roles in these situations are so wide ranging they help with food service, they help with administrative tasks. We're going to have someone from the National Guard on the podcast in January to talk about all the things the National Guard does, because it's really amazing. But they are helping with low capacity and medical facilities and some of those New England states. Governor Sununu in New Hampshire has also asked FEMA to help get ready in New Hampshire for an anticipated winter surge. There is some writing going on about when we combine flu and the delta strain, which is, as you said, our dominant strain right now and a possible Omicron like it could get really tough in the next couple of months. 

Sarah [00:10:15] Well, and with those surges, I think that is an area. That I'm constantly reminded, we still don't understand. We tell ourselves, Oh, it's about winter and people going indoors, but we don't really understand what causes these surges. And I think that's the other thing that can feel so discouraging or like we're stuck because, you know, even after all this time and all this data, there are still aspects of COVID that we do not understand. 

Beth [00:10:43] And at the same time, we have a lot of optimism about 2022 because the vaccines there are real conversations among scientists about creating a vaccine that could handle all strains of coronavirus. JPMorgan Chase global research has forecasted a full global economic recovery in 2022 viewing it as the end of the global pandemic and a return to normal conditions we had prior to the COVID 19 outbreak. 

Sarah [00:11:13] Go tell it on the mountain, JPMorgan Chase. I love that. 

Beth [00:11:16] I mean, I like that too. It seems a little narrow in its assessment of what constitutes a return to normal, but good for them. I was thinking about this morning the culture war aspect of the vaccines and how the pandemic is almost another illustration of this argument that we keep having in U.S. politics about minority rule because you have the majority of Americans getting vaccinated. Yeah, you even have the majority of Americans favoring vaccine mandates in a whole variety of contexts. But a vocal minority of Americans just don't want that. And nature demands a consensus on vaccines for us to really be able to move out of this being a major part of our lives. You know? And I don't know, it's just kind of got me thinking about what we can learn from that. And I don't want to ignore, you know, every time we talk about people who are not getting vaccinated, we get a lot of notes about folks who have actually been advised by physicians that in their specific cases, getting vaccinated is not a good idea. I do not mean to marginalize or ignore that group of people. It is statistically small, but humanly significant. So. So please don't hear me lumping together all people and all reasons. I've just been thinking about whatever the reason. You know, 60/40 is helpful. It's progress. It's miraculous in a lot of ways, and it doesn't do what is needed to really put this topic on the back burner and and people just are so angry about that. And I think it's reflective of many, many dynamics in our population. 

Sarah [00:13:11] I hope a year out from the vaccine. And this sort of new phase. Which to me has revealed even more the kind of multi-layered, branching out journey we're on in this pandemic, like there isn't one pandemic in a way, right? It's the experience is so different based on where you live, based on your life experiences, your health background. We talk about it in a way as if it's one thing. And especially with the presence of the vaccines like it just not being one thing, right? If it ever was, which I'm not sure. Better than it ever was. And I think like once you release that and you realize like, there's just a lot, there is a lot going on, there's a lot of decision points from, you know, the pharmaceutical companies who hold the vaccines to the federal government, state government, local authorities, public school, hospitals, individual families, individual companies, corporations, social gatherings, church congregations. Like I literally could list all the different decision points that exist inside this pandemic for all of us, and I think that's the exhaustion right now, more than anything, because we just keep layering on more sort of decision points. OK, well, what about the booster? Well, what about these viral treatment pills? Well, what about if you're at a gathering with the unvaccinated? OK, well, what if you have a breakthrough case? How long should your isolation period be like? Just the complexity is going to continue to grow in this sort of paradoxical manner as we're exiting, right? Like the exit itself is creating the complexity that's hard to hold and It's taxing. It's taxing when you have a lot of resources. It's certainly taxing when you don't and when you're, you know, run down or stressed from all the burdens this pandemic has created, depending on where you are in your life. And I think that's what we're feeling. I think that's why, you know, Biden's poll numbers aren't budging is because it just feels like the complexity increases, we want out, we want somebody to just tell us a simple message, but I'm not sure that that's available to us right now. I think, you know, all of our the flowchart for every single human being surrounding their choices at this point is getting pretty long and then trying to combine those in any way, shape or form to to offer some sort of universal guidance. I think you see the administration struggling with that. 

Beth [00:16:15] Throughout the pandemic, a policy problem we've had is someone saying very plainly, there are lots of things we could prioritize. There are lots of directions we could go in our management of this. We're going to pick this one because we have to pick. And I really need that from the Biden administration right now. Because how I would prioritize it does not matter. These are still communal tasks. So I really need the administration not to say we're going to have this multi-pronged approach with the vaccine push and the testing push and the community outreach and the development of the. I just I would like to hear, here is the main thing. This is the main number we're watching. You know, this is the main I get that we need a lot of tools in our toolkit still. But I just want to understand when I see cases are going up, I don't know what to make of that. I don't know if I make of that. Oh, OK, good. We are getting to that. More transmissible but much milder are going to burn out phase or are we concerned about that? I don't know how to hold more transmissible, milder infection alongside Governor of Maine has to bring in the National Guard to help at the hospital. And I just need a clear articulation of what is being prioritized on a national scale. I feel like that's not forthcoming. 

Sarah [00:17:49] Yeah, I just don't know what that would be. I just don't know what that would be, and I think when they are learning. You know, whether for good or for ill, that when they prioritize one thing in a pandemic that for better or for worse, even with the power of the federal government behind you, you can't control and that one thing doesn't happen. They suffer mightily for it. You know, like sort of declaring our independence in July, then we get the Delta variant. Like, I can't blame them for being a little gun shy about setting some like hard numbers in front of the American people in the middle of a pandemic that's like that is so uncontrollable in so many ways. 

Beth [00:18:24] If it's OK, I wanted to mention one personal thing before we leave this topic. As many of you know, my mom got COVID back in September of 2020, and this community was just generous. Generous is not enough of a word to describe how you all responded to a really serious, scary time for my family. And I just wanted to give you a little update on her. She saw a doctor yesterday to check in, and she has continued to really struggle. She has had another surgery since then to deal with degeneration of her spine. That happened, they think, because of COVID related inflammation and looking at her X-rays, her normal doctor was out and the doctor subbing in for him looked at her X-rays and was blown away by what she is still dealing with. And the consensus among the folks who work with her is just that COVID has dramatically accelerated her rheumatoid arthritis, and they don't know how long that will last, if it will retreat or if that's just going to be part of her condition. But I mention it because again, like there, I am still working to hold on to what is over, which is my fear that we would lose her to COVID versus what is not over. And that's the suffering that she is still dealing with and the unknown of whether that long piece can be over or not. And that's a teeny tiny example from one incredibly lucky family on the whole of how hard all of this is. And I just am really grateful that my mom allows me to share that because I've heard from so many of you that it's helpful, you know where you have stories of grief or long haul symptoms or whatever it is. I just I want you to know that whenever Sarah and I are expressing optimism, it is not an optimism that intends to ignore or minimize the very real things that that continue to be awful. 

Sarah [00:20:36] I think that's a good transition into our conversation about refugees, that there is cause for optimism in the face of a really, really difficult reality. So we were so thrilled that Denise agreed to join us and we hope you enjoy this conversation. 

Beth [00:21:05] Today is Global Human Rights Day. We have talked about refugees and asylum seekers from around the world a lot this year. Today we wanted to take a step back and think about this on a more big picture level. So we called in an expert, Denise Bell from Amnesty International is here to talk us through what the global picture around refugees and asylum seekers looks like. 

Sarah [00:21:30] OK, before we start, what is a refugee? 

Denise Bell [00:21:33] A refugee is a person who is forced to flee their country because of persecution, because of a fear for their life, because of war. There's a legal definition that is part of the refugee convention, but most people understand the refugees. But we think someone who was forced to flee their home because they fear for their lives and the lives of their families. 

Sarah [00:21:56] And before we get too far into that conversation, I realize I didn't really understand the difference between a refugee and an asylum seeker. 

Denise Bell [00:22:02] A refugee in the classic sense of a refugee is that you're somebody who's abroad, who's been granted refugee status, an asylum seeker is a refugee who comes directly to the border and asks for protection. And so, for example, Syrians who are resettled, they were granted refugee status abroad, and then they were resettled here. However, a Syrian asylum seeker is somebody who came directly to the United States and asked for asylum. And then the determination is made here in the United States whether to give them refugee status. 

Beth [00:22:36] You know, I find myself often thinking about human rights. As something for vulnerable populations who are already at risk, and that is true. Denise reminded us, though, that human rights are internationally assured under law for everyone. It is not something that we should be aspiring to. It is something that we have all agreed is important. 

Denise Bell [00:22:59] Well, first there's a human rights framework, and that's how we approach all of our work. There is an obligation to principle human rights obligations. The first is the right to seek asylum, which is in the Universal Declaration of Human Rights and also the Refugee Convention, and then the principle of non-refoulement, which is a non derivable human rights obligation for all countries in the world, that a person cannot be returned to a country where they face a risk of serious human rights abuses. So we don't come into a vulnerability lens we come into a human rights framework. And so all people have the right to ask for asylum, and no person should be returned to a country where they will face serious human rights harm, including torture. 

Sarah [00:23:44] And I think that legal framework is so important because the heartbreaking stories of refugees move us all. But the reality is that having a terrible story isn't enough to classify someone as a refugee because it's a legal claim and classification. And this really complicates our processes around resettlement. 

Beth [00:24:03] It complicates our discussion about immigration in the United States, too, because we use refugee in ways that are not attached at all to the legal claim. And sometimes we have people who are very dismissive of people who've arrived at our border who do have a legal claim as a refugee to be here. It would help us a lot if we would introduce a humanitarian visa in the United States. We do not have that at this time. There are models for us in Europe that we could follow. Adding a humanitarian visa classification would require an act of Congress. We know that that's a little bit tricky all days and especially these days. Because Congress hasn't done that, the legal role of processing and establishing refugees has fallen to the executive branch, which holds the power to set the number of refugees, just an actual number that will admit each year, and that number keeps seesawing with administrations. 

Denise Bell [00:24:59] In the last year of the Obama administration, we admitted 85,000 refugees. And the last year of the Trump administration, I think it was 8,000 or 10,000 refugees. This year it was 11,000, the first year the Biden administration in part. I mean, we all wanted much more, but in part they were rebuilding a system that just didn't exist. They could have done. I would say, more and faster. But the fact is they were not going to get from zero to 85 or 10,000 to 85 because the infrastructure had been shut down. So we have the capacity to welcome and we have the will to welcome. There are a lot of political impediments that have been set up to block welcome, particularly under the previous administration that dismantled the asylum system and the system for resettling refugees. So in a very real sense, the current administration is rebuilding a system of protection that was decimated, and we have to acknowledge that when you're rebuilding something like a house that burned down at the same time, you're trying to live in the house. It's difficult and that's where we are. However, we also need to make sure that the administration understands they need to do better and they need to do more and they need to do it faster. 

Sarah [00:26:29] This is an important moment to remember that refugees are the most vetted immigrants to enter the country. No other immigrant who comes into the United States has as intense a background check as a refugee. Multiple federal agencies, including intelligence agencies, pour over people's backgrounds before they are approved for resettlement here. It's part of what makes this process so long and why restarting the administrative engine of welcoming refugees is such an arduous process. 

Beth [00:26:56] That administrative engine has been harmed over the past few years, like many other aspects of the executive branch, because you had an administration in charge in the Trump administration that really did not believe we should be welcoming many people throughout the world into the country and getting that running again and running at a time when we have lots of people who need to be brought into the United States has been really complicated. That's part of the discussion that you've seen surrounding our withdrawal from Afghanistan. And we're talking right now specifically about America. You know, the issue of refugee resettlement or handling asylum claims is not exclusive to America at all. If you are listening in Europe, you know what a challenge this is. In America, when we think specifically about refugees, the majority of those people are coming from Africa, South Asia or Western Asia, where we see massive conflict and where our legal definition of refugee often applies. We have had conversations here on the show about refugees coming from Haiti and Haiti is an example of how the legal classification between refugee status and asylum seeker status gets complicated. 

Denise Bell [00:28:09] Haiti is not considered a refugee producing country. Perhaps it should, and that's because, again, refugee is a legal definition. However, people who leave Haiti have the right to ask for asylum. 

Sarah [00:28:23] Well, and I think this is just a good reminder that we are talking about a legal process, but the legal process is not immune from human reality. There are some anti-Black racism at work in the system. When we talk about Haitians exclusion from this process, there are broader definitions of refugee. You know, the refugee convention is the standard. And Haitians would qualify under some of these other broader definitions, not to mention that we're excluding people from natural disasters or where economic reasons are not qualifiers. 

Beth [00:28:57] Where governments are unwilling or unable to protect people that factors into the asylum claim. But every single one of these factors is subject to a whole body of case law interpreting them. And I think that we need to look at how we talk about refugees in the modern era, because a lot of these definitions are really dated. You know, we said just a second ago that natural disasters don't qualify you for refugee status. And climate refugees are on the rise. So we ask Denise to talk to us about how climate change affects the refugee population and how our legal definition currently thinks of people who are fleeing because of natural disasters. 

Denise Bell [00:29:40] So a person who is displaced because of climate is called a climate displaced person. They might qualify for refugee status. Again, that is a legal definition under the refugee convention, which the United States adopted in 1980 and the Refugee Act of 1980. So that's very important for people to understand. Yes, this is international human rights law. This is international law, but it's also U.S. law and there is a legal definition of refugees, a person who's persecuted on account of one of five protected grounds. Climate is not one of them. However, people can be persecuted because of climate what we call climate impacts. And so, for example, in the U.N. refugee agency has agreed with us. So there is capacity to make sure that we give protection to people who are affected this way. So, for example, somebody who is a climate justice advocate in their country who might be persecuted because of that by their government or if a government withholds humanitarian aid to a section of the country because of their ethnic background, and that they needed that aid because of climate change impacts like natural disaster of some sort. Those could rise to the level of persecution on a protected ground. And so we have to be thinking creatively, yes. But also it's still very much within the legal definition, which the U.N. refugee agency has started to recognize. 

Sarah [00:31:13] And at this point, you might be thinking, Lord, this is huge and complex and something I don't have much hope for impacting as a single person. But there is actually a lot you can do to help welcome refugees in the United States. Of course, there are the obvious things like contacting the representatives and let them know that you want to see more refugees inside our country and you have support in place for them. But you can also find local organizations helping with the refugee resettlement process and volunteer with them. But there are also individual options available through our legal system to help resettle refugees.

Denise Bell [00:31:45] The United States has a history of being a beacon of hope, and that came because we wanted to be that because we see ourselves that way, because we did do the welcoming and we can do that again as we rebuild our system. Absolutely. But the American people, for example, can come together through community sponsorship, and they can actually show how they want to be welcoming. And the benefit of community sponsorship, which has existed in this country for decades, is that everyday people come together to help directly welcome refugees or help resettle them, actually. And what that also shows is that not only is there welcome in the community, but also it says to our elected officials that we as people care so much about this. We're willing to put down what I call our diamond time. So community sponsorship has existed since the 1980s, and co-sponsorship is the form that many community members have been engaged in and their you work with resettlement agencies and you share responsibilities for helping to resettle refugees. Sponsor circles are brand new because they operate outside the resettlement agency infrastructure and so community members come together and work directly. I call it community based resettlement. And so exactly they are coming together to directly resettle refugees. I would just say that it's actually not private sponsorship, it's private sponsorship like. There will be a private sponsorship program launched next year by the administration. Actually, the president in an executive order signed on February 4th said it was coming. So this is really thrilling that we're taking these innovative steps to welcome refugees. So this is a step to get there. Sponsor circles are meeting an acute need, and that's to mobilize the public to help in the resettlement of Afghans on the military bases. 

Beth [00:33:44] Getting involved in this process makes a big difference. Community support is how people are connected to a community. It is a huge part of what makes a successful transition for refugees, and I think this part of the conversation really gets left behind in immigration discussions in the United States. And I think more of us participating as community support for refugees could help us change that immigration conversation because it really does build out a social network, Denise describes this very beautifully. 

Denise Bell [00:34:15] A good outcome for the refugee family is that they feel fully welcomed and integrated and are able to support themselves and have all of the social services and support networks that they would need, like any of us, would need to thrive. It's also what it means is that the community comes together and is stronger for this. What we find is refugees return as much or more than Americans in terms of taxpayer dollars. They are highly productive member of society once they have resettled and found housing and found jobs and have started to rebuild their lives. The other part of refugee resettlement that's really important is that it does help with community cohesion and helps brings communities together because they fill jobs that are vacant because other people have left. A number of mayors across the country have talked about how their cities were really seeing a decline, and then refugees helped the economy, local economy bounce back. The National Meat Packing Association works closely with refugee communities, have enabled them to have regular and early employment in their resettlement. But I would say it's that sense of belonging, that sense of belonging benefits us all. 

Sarah [00:35:28] I love her emphasis on belonging. I love the way that she's taken us from the sort of legal understanding and then shown how our values can also inform our policies and that in the United States, we have hard histories surrounding refugees, but we also have hopeful history surrounding refugees, and I am excited about this new policy. I'm hoping to participate it with it in my own community, and I think it's a really beautiful note to end on. 

Denise Bell [00:36:01] The US has been a leader in refugee protection. And we just launched one of the most innovative programs in 40 years. The sponsor circles. So we have the ability we have, the commitment, we have the vision to do it. But people need to make sure that their elected officials understand that we want to welcome that this is part of our values and what we want and that it is U.S. law. No person is illegal. All people can seek asylum and we have to make sure that not only our neighbors understand, but our elected officials understand. It's what we care about and it's U.S. law, it's human rights law, and it's the right thing to do. 

Beth [00:36:48] We are really grateful to Denise for spending time with us. We will put all of her contact information in our show notes. She has since transitioned from amnesty to an effort more specifically focused on welcoming Afghan refugees into the United States. So if you want to connect with her, her information will be in the show notes. And we really appreciate her and all of you spending time with us thinking about the big picture of this conversation. 

Beth [00:37:21] Sarah, it is the time of year when motivated partially by holiday cheer and partially by U.S. tax law, many of us are thinking about charitable giving and we have this conversation, I think it was Alise's idea to chat about how we approach that this time of year, how we make decisions about our philanthropic giving. 

Sarah [00:37:44] Well, last year's Pantsuit Politics, we talked about this and we decided to sort of divide the money and put it in our local communities. I definitely like to give money locally, although I am considering some national abortion rights nonprofits this year as the calendar year rolls to an end. But I think very, very appropriately regarding our conversation and the previous segment, I think I'm going to use a large majority of our the money we set aside for charitable giving to work on a sponsorship circle with some people in my community, which is it's like $10000 to cost a lot of money to fundraise in and bring a family here and hopefully be able to provide a place for them here in Paducah. So. So the short answer is, however, I'm feeling that year whatever's pulling on my heartstrings and whatever. If I know about some need in my community. 

Beth [00:38:40] I think that's a good answer. I am taking the same approach that I took last year, which is also locally based and where I see my dollars going to root causes. I've been thinking so much about what is the role of philanthropy in a society, we're going to talk more about that soon, and I have tried to focus the majority of my giving and also like my board service on root causes. And so the two organizations locally that I really put dollars into are a parenting center that helps with foster care adoption, kinship care, just support for families who are raising grandchildren, nieces and nephews, that kind of thing, as well as parent coaching, just giving parents more skills to be emotionally intelligent and in their own struggles, as well as their children's struggles. So that's one Beach's parenting center. And then the other is focused on incarceration, which I think is the the place that my heart is most pulled to you, trying to get people out of out of jails and prisons across the country. So those are the two causes that I think most about, but I think it is can best be summarized by right here where I am and trying to get to things that I think will help prevent outcomes that other charities work on down the road. 

Sarah [00:40:08] Yeah. Last year, I gave money to several organizations that I serve on the board of. It's just such an interesting situation because like, we're going to talk again, we're gonna talk about this in an episode next week, but like one of them, like they have a lot of money. They have a lot of money. They don't need money, necessarily, you know, nonprofits always need money, but their coffers are very full. And so that sort of change the calculus. And I think that's an important part. I think you can kind of sort of get into a habit of just like writing the check to the organization you love. And I think it's worth asking, like, do they have a lot of need right now? Is there another organization that has more need? 

Beth [00:40:39] Yeah. And what are the goals of the organization? Are those goals shifting in ways that I continue to feel like my dollars should support? And kind of what's the energy of giving dollars to an organization? There is a lot to consider. The other thing I wanted to mention in this discussion is that I'm trying to do a better job honestly, a lot because of our experience as small business owners. I'm trying to do a better job not waiting until the end of the year to make a charitable gift, but to spread my giving out on a monthly consistent basis because we have certainly learned that having that consistent support month after month that you can count on is vital to running an organization that that depends on individual support. And so I'm trying to do a better job of that with my charitable giving as well. Well, thank you all so much for joining us. Just a reminder that we are still booking some speaking engagements for next year as you think about what you'd like to invite into your local community. We love traveling across the country, spending time in person with people and would be delighted to spend time with your university, your organization. So if you'd like to learn more about that, can you please send an email to our managing director Alise at hello@pantsuitpoliticsshow.com. And could you do that as soon as possible for you? Because our calendar is filling up for 2022 and we do love doing these events and want to be able to do as many as we reasonably can. Alise will be delighted to talk with you about what we do and how we do it out on the road. We'll be back with you here next Tuesday for a conversation about guns in America. Until then, have the best weekend available to you. 

Beth [00:42:34] Pantsuit Politics is produced by Studio D Podcast Production.  

Alise Napp is our managing director.

Sarah Megan Hart and Maggie Penton are our community engagement managers. Dante Lima is the composer and performer of our theme music. 

Beth Our show is listener-supported. Special thanks to our executive producers. 

Executive Producers (Read their own names)  Martha Bronitsky, Linda Daniel, Ali Edwards, Janice Elliot, Sarah Greenup, Julie Haller, Helen Handley, Tiffany Hassler, Emily Holladay, Katie Johnson, Katina Zuganelis Kasling, Barry Kaufman, Molly Kohrs.

The Kriebs, Laurie LaDow, Lilly McClure, David McWilliams, Jared Minson, Emily Neesley, Danny Ozment, The Pentons, Tawni Peterson, Tracy Puthoff, Sarah Ralph, Jeremy Sequoia, Katy Stigers, Karin True, Onica Ulveling, Nick and Alysa Vilelli, Amy Whited.

Beth Melinda Johnston, Ashley Thompson, Michelle Wood, Joshua Allen, Morgan McHugh, Nichole Berklas, Paula Bremer, and Tim Miller.

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