The Closest We Get to Hot Takes

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Transcript

Sarah [00:00:00] I don't know any other approach right now. I just, I don't. Assess your risk, control what you can control. That's what we're doing right now. I think that the vaccine was an important phase of COVID. But what it did is move us past the point where we're like doing something together, if we ever were. Right? But because there's just all these different groups, it changes things and it makes it hard to sort of speak with one voice anymore. 

Sarah [00:00:35] This is Sarah Stewart Holland. 

Beth [00:00:36] And this is Beth Silvers. 

Sarah [00:00:38] Thank you for joining us for Pantsuit Politics. 

Beth [00:00:54] Hello, and thank you so much for joining us for a new episode today. We're going to have our last current events episode of the year. We'll have new episodes for you for the next two weeks. But we prerecorded those. It's a lot of retrospection, introspection, looking ahead. We wanted to let our entire team spend time with family during the holidays, so we think you're going to love those episodes. They'll be in your feed as normal, but today will be our last look at current events. So we're going to do a lightning round. We're going to take a tour through lots of topics, all the things that are pulling at our attention. Since we're covering a lot of ground, make sure to check our show notes. We have picked some articles that we think are worth your time to better understand some of the big stories that we're talking about. We won't be able to lay as much of a foundation today as we usually would. We also ask listeners on Instagram what they want to be sure to hear us talk about today. So we'll address some of those topics, including like Elon Musk and the Duggar trial and Succession. So stick around all the way through the end. We've got a grab bag of things to discuss. Before we get started, Sarah, I wondered if you could give a brief update on what's happening in Western Kentucky. You have been to Mayfield and Benton, and I know you've been updating people on the news brief, but I thought it would be helpful for everybody to hear a little bit from you about where things stand. 

Sarah [00:02:07] Yeah, I was on a call with our lieutenant governor two days ago, and she said it's going to be a marathon at a sprint's pace. And I thought, what a good way to put it, because that's what's happening right now. There's a massive influx of supplies. I went to Mayfield on Tuesday. There were truly mountains of water bottles. Now their water is still off and many of the area, so I don't know if they'll get through all of it, but it was needed. And then there's the massive undertaking at the Mayfair Fairgrounds, where there's just literally anything: pet food, fresh produce, medication, a Chick-Fil-A Tent, like you name it, it's there. The problem is, it's like hard to get the stuff to the people. So like they kind of walk around a volunteer holds a box, they fill the box of the volunteer, takes it to the car. But it's just it's it's an intense operation over there. And then when we were there on Tuesday, they were just starting a similar operation at the airport and my friends who showed up to volunteer, they were like people were asking them what to do and they're like, We don't know, we just got here. Like, it's just there was like a semi truck full of Frosted Flakes and Frito-Lay is showing up. It's just so much stuff. And so there wasn't anywhere I drove or went that people were not helping, that there weren't parking lots full of clothing in our parking lots, full of food. And so, you know, I left feeling like, OK, people are taking care of here now. There are a small, smaller cities. Dawson Springs has been getting a lot of attention because Mayfield has a lot of infrastructure left. There's whole parts of the town like the Wal-Mart area that are still intact, right? I don't think that's true of Dawson Springs, and I think that's what's really difficult is some of the areas where there's just nothing left. And so there's a lot of operations going there to feed the people of Dawson Springs. But you know, when I drove through downtown Mayfield, especially because there were so many like old brick buildings and just like that rubble that you associate with war zones, right? The buildings were obliterated in downtown Mayfield, and it is going to take a long time to build that back. You know, we had listeners and then news brief talk about like what one listener moved to Paradise after the fire and are still people waiting. And, you know, living in fifth wheelers, still waiting to get rebuilt. I just think about like sort of the supply chain shortages and the cost. And I'm just I want to make sure and and continue to pay attention as they start to clean out. The power was back on in one of my CASA kid's homes. She texted me yesterday, like we finally got our power back. So that's good. They're making progress as far as the power in the water, that's definitely going to be the first phase, but there are many, many phases left to come. 

Beth [00:04:41] Well, just a reminder that our show notes for Tuesday's episode is filled with organizations that could use your donations and support, as we mentioned on Tuesday. Always helpful to give blood wherever you are. 

Sarah [00:04:52] We'll put in the show, notes the West Kentucky Tornado Relief Fund, set up by the state government, that they're really directing people to put that that specific link in the show notes today as well. 

Beth [00:05:14] All right, let's start our lightning round by visiting with our three branches of government. Beginning with the United States Congress, which has been busy and somewhat productive lately, there have been some good stories coming out of Congress. Most notably, we're delighted to have averted the debt ceiling crisis. 

Sarah [00:05:29] Until 2023. We don't have to talk about it until 2023. I'm so excited for that. I don't think we should bury the lead here with Congress, though I think everybody is obsessed with the January 6th commission. I know I am. How about you? 

Beth [00:05:40] I have spent a lot of time thinking about the January 6th commission this week for the Nightly Nuance. And so yes, it is deep into my psyche. And honestly, the more time I spend on it, the less patience I have with just about everything else because I feel like... 

Sarah [00:05:54] Yea. That's the thing. 

Beth [00:05:55] Like, wake up everybody. 

Sarah [00:05:56] I don't want to talk about Joe Manchin. I don't want to talk about Joe Manchin. I just want to talk about Liz Cheney. That's my actual honest, hot take. 

Beth [00:06:02] Well, go ahead and talk about Liz Cheney then. 

Sarah [00:06:04] I never thought that I would be rooting for Liz Cheney in the way that I am, this is not. I told our team the other day, like I just never expected to be on the side of the Cheneys ruthlessness, but I am. I am here for her ruthlessness. I think that she has a plan. I think if she's reading those text messages knowing what she knows about the news cycle before Christmas, what is going to happen around the anniversary of this event? Oh golly, oh golly, I want to know. 

Beth [00:06:34] Because she knows who sent those messages and everybody listening to her read them. Who is a sender of them knows that she knows. 

Sarah [00:06:41] Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, oh, I bet there's some people sweating. Some people are not going to have a peaceful holiday and they shouldn't. They shouldn't, because they tried to plot a coup. 

Beth [00:06:51] You know, there is a conversation happening about what is to happen in Washington on January 6th, 2022. A lot of different opinions about whether the House and Senate should be in session. The House is not scheduled to be in session. The Senate is. The White House says they'll do something. I would really be here for a fired up Joe Biden. I'm not really interested in like a solemn commemoration. I sort of want him to roll in and say, I am tired of treating any controversy about the last election as though it is legitimate ground for political disagreement. Wake up. This is so irresponsible. It is shameful. I would like for him to say if you are a member of Congress who was sending text messages during the last election, talking about the possibility of throwing out the votes of entire states, you should be ashamed of yourself. You are not worthy of the public's trust. And I hope to God that your constituents know that and vote accordingly. There are lots of places where political disagreement is appropriate and necessary and healthy. This is not it, and I'm just I'm ready for him to bring some heat on this topic. 

Sarah [00:08:05] Yeah, I'm ready for some heat. I want heat the heat to continue on Fox News, and the idea that these people pretend to be journalists pretend to be sort of neutral arbiters in any way, shape or form the idea that they were texting the White House Chief of Staff on January 6th. First of all, to be honest with you, like I don't want these journalists texting the White House Chief of Staff like casually any time. If you're trying to present this story to the American people, like unless you're scheduling a sit down, I don't love that look, and I certainly don't love it in the middle of the January 6th events like I just it is so gross and I think we are again, we are only starting to scratch the surface because when Laura Ingraham said, You're hurting us, that us is truly in us, right? They are all in cahoots together. The right wing media, the right wing fundraisers, the right wing legislators. It is a team and they all knew what they were doing. They all knew what they were trying to accomplish. They're all terrified of him. It's just, Oh, it's so gross. 

Beth [00:09:22] Well, and so for your people in your lives who are going to say, Well, all the media is like that, OK? Contrast the reaction of Sean Hannity and Laura Ingraham to having their text messages read. Don't we believe in privacy anymore? I mean, just the pretend outrage. Contrast that with Jake Sherman, who is one of the founders of Punchbowl, who was with Politico before, who said, Hey, I recognize one of those text messages. It's mine. Here's the screenshot of it from my phone. Jake Sherman, a reporter, was in the Capitol, and he texted Mark Meadows and said, Please help us. We are helpless. We are under siege. That is what a journalist does. They say everything has to be transparent. And, you know, I'm sure there are people who have problems with something Jake Sherman has tweeted at some point, whatever. But that is a person who's trying to do news. And when he becomes part of the story, he says, Yes, I am part of the story. Let me explain how. 

Sarah [00:10:20] Well, and it just shows you two like, not unrelated to January 6th, but this is how much they're communicating, this is how much Mark Meadows was probably an unnamed source for God knows how many news stories, while probably out in front of cameras complaining about unnamed sources. 

Beth [00:10:40] I hated the leaks in tweets environment of the Trump administration. What I tried to learn from it is that every story that makes it into the media makes it into the media because someone wants it there. Someone provides enough for a news outlet to follow because they want the story to be told. And I think getting back to your point, Sarah, this committee wants a foundation to be laid right now for, I think, much, much bigger revelations and exposure in the coming year. And I think that that is the most important thing Congress can be doing right now, and I'll tell you what else like, I think the voting rights legislation the For the People Act that the House has passed and tried to advance in the Senate in some compromise form is important. But I think it is so frustrating that Congress has not had a laser like focus on the Electoral Count Act post January 6th. Because as important as it is for people to have access to voting. And it is and is important as it is, I believe personally to make that access easier and more convenient and more accessible. The first thing is, once the votes have been made, they get counted properly and they matter, and we don't just have legislators like deciding, maybe we should just decide this thing ourselves. There was so much conversation going on among elected officials, not among, you know, some guy at a bar somewhere who was interviewed and thinks that the election's been stolen. But people in positions of power were legitimately talking to each other about whether they could just decide the election results themselves. And I don't care what you think is important about abortion or foreign policy or student loans or what else, if that's acceptable to you, then we mean very different things when we pledge allegiance to the flag and like, that's what I want from Joe Biden. I want a healthy dose of patriotism and shame coming across about all of this because it's despicable what they were contemplating. 

Sarah [00:12:53] Yeah. And from the people who complain about the power of the government, that's what just makes me want to set my hair on fire. Like out here talking about liberty and the oppression of the federal government. But also maybe the federal government i.e. us could just overturn the election. That'd be cool, right? I just. The hypocrisy exposed shouldn't shock me at this point. It really shouldn't. And I guess it doesn't shock me. It just still really pisses me off. 

Beth [00:13:19] And I will say plainly to you, it really pisses me off that we don't have in this Congress that is ostensibly controlled by Democrats, a compromise piece of legislation on the Electoral Count Act just to make clear the process of how we actually get a new President because protecting the peaceful transfer of power should be at the top of everyone's priority list. Whatever... 

Sarah [00:13:41] Yeah but could they get to 60 in the Senate? 

Beth [00:13:43] I would hope on a specific bill like that, they could get to 60 and maybe they've been trying and that story hasn't been told. But that is to me, priority number one. 

Sarah [00:13:53] Now we will speak quickly of Joe Manchin, even though neither of us want to, because you are suspicious of the story. Being told about Joe Manchin right now. 

Beth [00:14:00] It seems very one dimensional to me. It's not because I think Joe Manchin is like the greatest guy and I'm here to defend him. It is because a piece of legislation this complicated, this multifaceted always has more going on than one guy. One example that I saw that sort of validated this instinct for me was Lisa Desjardins from PBS, I think, was tweeting about these negotiations. And she said, Listen, it's flying around everywhere today that Joe Manchin wants to cut the child tax credit. What Joe Manchin cares about is the total cost of the bill. There are lots of paths to get there. The child tax credit being cut is one of them, but it is one path of many paths. I just think the story keeps getting simplified in ways that, you know, honestly, I just think, what are we even talking about anymore? Again, if we're prioritizing what are we even talking about, if we are saying this one senator has to be the worst human being ever sent to Congress is betraying absolutely everyone. Because of this bill that most of us could not name what's in it like, I get that there are important priorities here. I think the child tax credit is very important. I hope that continues. I hope it's made permanent. I get the climate change funding is important and I hope that goes through. There are a lot of things I really support here. I also think it's a legitimate question to say, Hey, friends, when we're talking about how much this costs. Why are we pretending that these programs are going to expire in a couple of years? They're not. And what are we going to do when they are? And how are we going to make them sustainable? I think that's especially important when you're talking about something like universal pre-k, because it'll take a couple of years to just build the infrastructure to figure out how to make that work. So let's not pretend that it expires two years down the road or whatever. 

Sarah [00:15:52] Yeah, no, I agree. 

Beth [00:15:53] I have a lot of feelings about it. 

Sarah [00:15:55] Are we ready to move on to the President and the Executive Branch? 

Beth [00:15:58] Let's take a quick break and do that. 

Beth [00:16:14] I was thinking, Sarah, that the subject of greatest interest around the Executive Branch is still COVID. When Maggie asked on Instagram what everyone wanted to hear us talk about today. There were lots of hey, like what is happening? Is mask wearing really, really important right now? Or is it virtue signaling? Are we calling them breakthroughs anymore? Because it seems like everybody I know who's vaccinated has had COVID exposure and gotten some version like, what are we doing? What are we doing? 

Sarah [00:16:44] We were talking about this on the Nightly Nuance because we are both traveling this weekend for the holiday break. I'm going to New York City Comic-Con Central, apparently, and you're going to Disney World. And, you know, I've had to think about what am I doing and what am I doing? You know? I was talking to a friend where they've canceled a lot of Broadway shows, where you have asymptomatic, vaccinated positive cases and they're shutting things down. And I just thought if that's our standard, if that's what we're doing is shutting things down because asymptomatic vaccinated people are testing positive, we're not going to get out of this. We're going to be here forever. And I just there's a part of me. That I know this is fraught to compare to the flu is always fraught because it brings back memories of our president and our people who did not want to take COVID seriously comparing it to the flu. I know that that's not what I'm doing here. It's wrong to say that out loud. But there's a part of me that's like, well, if this was a particularly bad flu season, not with 800,000 deaths behind us, right? And it just as a standalone flu season and we were testing at this capacity like I wonder how many people walk around are asymptomatic flu carriers like I don't know the answer to that question, but I'm just trying to find any experience to compare it to, which is silly because there is no experience to carry it. That's compared to that's what's so hard about saying, Well, what is happening? Well, part of what is happening is if we just passed 800,000 COVID deaths and you cannot detach that from anything we talk about moving forward. And the tragedy of that and the impact of that and the fact that COVID is still dangerous for so many people. But it's like we were talking about before. The problem is we've like branched out on all these different roads. And so what are you doing? The answer depends on, Are you immunocompromised? Are you boosted? I mean, like, there's just a million different this flowchart, the flow charts getting so long, you guys. 

Beth [00:18:34] And I think that there's always this truth that you might not be immunocompromised and you might still be a person who, for whatever reason, gets a very dangerous case of COVID or a mild case that has long haul symptoms. And we don't know why, and we don't know how to prevent that yet. And people are working so hard. I just keep trying to tell myself it is amazing what we already do know what we already can treat, what we already can mitigate that will become even more and more. I love the SNL cold open, where Kate McKinnon playing Dr. Fauci was like. Why don't you get a booster and then maybe a little top off, maybe a little splash like just keep, you know, and that's fine with me. And I also recognize that not too long down the road from here we will talk about having gotten three or four shots like it is from the era when we didn't have electricity. I know our medical technology is developing so rapidly that we will look back on this time with a lot of criticism. And at the same time, I hope we look at it with wonder because we did mobilize really quickly. We're still people are still mobilizing. I don't know where we are. I know that for me right now, I have gotten my booster. I am wearing my mask. I read this piece in the Atlantic that caused quite a bit of... 

Sarah [00:19:53] Oh, such a fervor discussion, such a fervor. 

Beth [00:19:55] Yes. And the gist of the piece will then get the show notes not as an endorsement, but the gist of the piece is like COVID nonexistent where I live. And this is a person who was in a part of Michigan where nobody's wearing a mask, nobody's doing the flow chart. People just live their lives. That's pretty close to where my part of the world is to you. Honestly, now the attitude of the peace sort of the tone of it I did not resonate with, I did not think I would like to make this author, my friend. I also think it is important to recognize that in some ways. You know, we talk often in America about voting with your dollars, and I think we are voting with our behavior around COVID policy and whether we are making wise choices or ethical choices or fair choices, I think is a hard and open question. And sometimes I think the answer is demonstrably not. And at the same time, I have released the idea that I can control how other people manage this, and I have released the idea that I am not going to get COVID because I am behaving appropriately. I just accept that there is going to be a variant that is going to be part of my life at some point and my kids too. And I hate that and it's scary. And it does have an element of risk, but I think I'm getting into the place where that element of risk because of the vaccines feels more acceptable to me. But it's tricky. 

Sarah [00:21:25] We were recently on Celebrity Book Club talking about Huma Aberdeen's new memoir, and there's a moment where she talks about Hillary Clinton on a plane and they like, lose an engine. And Hillary keeps reading her book and it was like, What are you doing? She's like, I can't control any of this, so I'm just going to read my book. And that's where I'm at. I did what I can do. I have done what is asked of me. I continue to do what is asked of me. I am boosted. I wear my mask. I've done what I can do. Like, I can't control anybody else. I'm not a policymaker. I'm not a medical researcher. You know, I will follow the releases, but I cannot. I cannot live in a space where I am trying to prevent any exposure or any risk that I might contribute to exposure. I'm just going to be honest with that. Like, I think we're past that now. I think that we're two variants that are so contagious unless we all just stay at home all the time, which I think is not acceptable and we should not do that. And that was very damaging on a lot of different levels. As you can tell, by the way, people are still sick, so triggered by any mention of it. It's not available. It's not. It's just not available politically, civically, emotionally, spiritually to us anymore. So we just got to do the best we can. And somebody might think I could try harder. I might think somebody else could try harder. But that's just the reality of where we are. As this big group of humans trying to figure out this continue to figure out this pandemic. 

Beth [00:22:42] I greatly respected the way my mom handled something this week around COVID. Her parents, my grandparents are not in good health. My grandfather has been in and out of the hospital with alarming regularity over the past couple of weeks. They want to see all of their kids and grandkids for Christmas. They just want to. And there are among their kids and grandkids, unvaccinated people. And my mom is very unhappy about this and she is the oldest of the kids and it's kind of become the family press secretary or something. She kind of coordinates all of the communication in the family. So my mom, who has her own feelings from her own experience with COVID about how seriously everyone should take this, sent an email out and said, Listen, there are new variants that are highly contagious. My parents want to see everybody, and I respect that wish. And so what I'm asking is if you are not vaccinated, will you please wear a mask when you go see them and let's have a big window of day when everybody can stop by? We'll just kind of stagger it, go whenever you want to. I don't care. In charge of I'm I'm not in charge of your schedule. But please make an effort to see them over the holiday. And if you want to go on this particular day, there will be food there. And I thought it was so I was so proud of her because she didn't make any effort to hide how she feels about any of this. She also didn't call anybody an asshole, which I know was kind of probably difficult, even though my mom doesn't use that kind of language very often. I'm sorry, mom, for using it in your place now. I just thought it was like the right tone. It was kind of, I'm going to let you know how I feel about this. I'm going to ask for what I think is appropriate in this situation. I'm going to release control of it from there. I know you're all going to do what you do anyway. 

Sarah [00:24:25] I'm controlling what I can control. I don't know any other approach right now. I just, I don't, you know, assess your risk control, what you can control. That's what we're doing right now. I think that the vaccine was an important phase of COVID. But what it did is move us past the point where we're like doing something together, if we ever were, right? But because there's just all these different groups, right, but it's just it changes things, and it makes it hard to sort of speak with one voice anymore. 

Beth [00:24:58] And I just don't think we should try. I feel like it's so counterproductive right now to hear anybody speak with a lot of authority on where we are, the people who say, Oh, well, some vaccine, everybody who takes it still gets COVID like that really works. Friend, like, we weren't around at the beginning of a lot of vaccines. We know it's not like all of us living today have a ton of early pandemic experience, so we just can't see where we are in the process, I think down the road. We'll get to a place where you get the vaccine and it does prevent against most forms of infection. 

Sarah [00:25:31] Well, that just makes me mad because I never thought vaccines were a solution. I thought they were a risk reduction, and I'm still very happy with the amount of risk reduction the vaccine has given me. I wouldn't be going to New York City if there was a 60 percent effective vaccine, right? I feel very protected against severe disease and death, and that's what I want it. And that's what they did. 

Beth [00:25:52] And at the same time, I'll be honest, I'm bummed. I am bummed about where we are. I'm bummed that I'm still wearing my mask when I'm out. 

Sarah [00:25:58] Oh yeah, for sure. 

Beth [00:25:59] I'm I hate that. I wish it were not. So I'm not going to fight with anybody about that. I still really believe and the choices that I've made in this pandemic, I believe that I have done the best that I can and will continue to do so. And I believe that a lot of the people around me have to and I just I don't want to pretend to be an expert on any of this. We don't know where we are. There's going to be a lot more of that coming. And like you said, I just want to manage where I am today, continuing to try to make my best choices. 

Sarah [00:26:26] Do we want to touch the Supreme Court real fast before we move to Outside Politics?

Beth [00:26:29] Well, the Supreme Court, in a very complex decision about who can be sued before someone has violated Texas's Heartbeat Act, decided to allow the lawsuit to go forward against some defendants. And that's probably all we can say here without breaking it down a lot more. The shocking thing for people who pay attention to Supreme Court decisions around protected constitutional rights is that they have declined to stop the enforcement of this law while it gets worked out in court. Because if you were looking for a sense that the court found Texas' Heartbeat Act patently unconstitutional, then you would expect the court to not allow it to be enforced during the litigation. And so that makes everyone stay in this space of worrying about what the continued state of abortion law is going to be in the United States. 

Sarah [00:27:24] Well, to me and I think Gavin Newsom's reaction that he was going to put forth similar legislation allowing private citizens to enforce gun control legislation. Points to the real concern here. Look, no one's more concerned than the state of abortion law, the way the Supreme Court is acting with relation to this Texas law is way bigger than that. It's the idea that like, Oh, just kidding, we don't have federalism. States can do what they want and there can be all these different standards of rights. Different states. And we found out this really clever way to basically say the Supreme Court has no authority here. The Supreme Court has no judicial review because a citizen is the enforcer. And I think John Roberts level of concern about that was appropriate. I think it's Justice Sotomayor's level of concern about that was appropriate. I think we should all be very concerned about, you know, 200 plus years of Supreme Court precedent, saying this is where we decide what people can do really just means governments. And if you put the private citizens in charge, state governments can get away with all kinds of stuff. It's scary. 

Beth [00:28:23] I agree with you about 60 percent. How's that? I think it's true that Texas tried to buy some time here, and it worked, and I don't like that. I also think that it's important for us to all be honest about the fact that the Supreme Court does not have to be consistent. I think there is no way. First of all, I don't have a lot of patience for Gavin Newsom is doing, to be honest with you. I think that feels like the Pod Save America guys are governing California. I mean, it's a useful thought exercise like it is a useful thing to talk about. It is not irrelevant to say, what does this mean for other rights? That's fair. And the Supreme Court knows that they're thinking about that. They write the opinions on that stuff, and they do not have to be consistent. And I think there's no way they would treat a gun law the same way that they're treating Roe versus Wade, because the conservative Justices on the court would say, we have an explicit constitutional amendment on the right to bear arms. We read in a generalized right to privacy that gave rise to the right to an abortion. These are different circumstances. Whatever you think about the truth of that or the wisdom of it or the justice of it is beside the point. So what Newsom is talking about here, I think, is just like another form of really cynical governance. He knows it goes to court. It consumes a lot of time. It consumes a lot of taxpayer dollars. It keeps everybody really riled up and in their corners. It says, Let's you got a hot button issue. Let me throw another one on the fire. And for what? Because ultimately, both of those cases could go up to the Supreme Court and they could decide differently. And there's not a thing to be done about that. That's our system. 

Sarah [00:30:08] Well, I think the reaction would be like it's not going to be our system if the thing that can be done about it is just to put private citizens as enforcers. You know, like they'll just think of a different way around it or they'll use it for something else that's not as explicit as the Second Amendment, and this is just a problem that could self-perpetuating far beyond abortion and guns. 

Beth [00:30:25] But the private citizen component to me is just a tactic to talk about how long this law can live without the actual constitutionality of it being addressed, because I do not for a second believe that we're going to get some kind of opinion in this case that creates a carve out to a constitutional right for private citizens to enforce against each other. I think this court, if it is going to disturb Roe versus Wade, is going to do it directly. And I think that it will mean states start doing it directly, and I think that is a real risk right now. 

Sarah [00:31:02] Every time they let this law stay in place, though, they're creating precedent for this type of enforcement to exist. They're saying it's not dangerous enough, we're going to shut it down. We'll continue to let you basically evade our enforcement of the Constitution through this super clever little trick. So cute, you guys. Every day it continues, every day it continues as a risk. 

Beth [00:31:27] Yeah, I don't disagree with that's that's where my 60 percent agreement comes in, I think. But my my 40 percent is this will get addressed head on at some point. And I just want to be really clear about what the court is deciding point by point. Both for purposes of kind of keeping my feet on the ground and for purposes of being honest about what the court does and about what the state of Texas has done, because I think political accountability for state legislators who do this and for people like Governor Newsom, depends on the public understanding the purpose of these little tricks. What they are doing again, as legislators is saying, we're just going to let the courts figure everything hard out. We're going to govern symbolically and we're going to ask the courts to actually make the rules for civil society. And I think that's wrong. Whatever issue we're talking about. 

Sarah [00:32:17] Right. Next up, we're going to do a lightning round of Outside Politics. 

Sarah [00:32:31] OK, true lightning round. I'm just going to say something, and we'll each get like a sentence or two. OK? 

Beth [00:32:38] I feel like you're telling me that I'm talking too much, but it's fine. 

Sarah [00:32:42] No, it just got we got a we got a couple of things to get through here, OK? Elon Musk Person of the Year? 

Beth [00:32:48] Well, I do not think that Elon Musk is someone worthy of great admiration on a personal level. For me, it feels optimistic to choose an inventor in a year that has had so much political chaos because there is a hope that long term what will really matter from this year is is that contribution to human history of of looking beyond Earth and traveling around Earth differently. 

Sarah [00:33:12] Yeah, it's not hero of the year. It's Person of the year. And I think it's hard to argue with Elon Musk's influence or power inside our our culture, economy and broader society. All right. The Duggar trial?

Beth [00:33:27] I don't know enough about this to have an informed opinion. 

Sarah [00:33:30] I remember the first time I watched the Duggar special, it's the only one I've ever watched. Every cell in my body said something is not right here. And knowing that they knew from the beginning of the show, from the very beginning that he was sexually abusing children and his own sisters and continued to do this reality show tells me that initial reaction was correct. Succession. I'll go first here because I've not seen Succession, so this is all you. 

Beth [00:34:01] I asked my husband after seeing the whole world talking about how good the season three finale is, if he thought I would like it. He said, Absolutely not. It's mean and crass. It's brilliant, but it's mean and crass. Then he comes back to me and he says that his best friend really wants me to watch it so we can all talk about it together. So like any elder millennial white woman, what do I do? I go ask Instagram. Should I watch succession? And everybody tells me, basically, it's mean and crass. You'll hate every single character, but it's like modern Shakespeare. You got to watch it. Just don't binge it. So I watched episode one. I really liked it. I thought it was really interesting. So I'm excited to...

Sarah [00:34:42] I have seen episode one. Yes. 

Beth [00:34:43] The best description I got was that it's Blue State Yellowstone, which was really helpful and then Alise added to that, except that it's not violent. It's mean and it's crass. And it's disgusting in a lot of ways, but it's not violent, and that helps me a lot. So I'm going to go for this. I'm going to do it slowly. 

Sarah [00:35:01] Well we can do that in 2022 together because I've watched the first episode and I do want to watch it. So maybe that's we can just work our way slowly through it together. 

Beth [00:35:07] Slowly, everyone, very slowly. 

Sarah [00:35:09] Closing it out. What is Ben Affleck doing right now? 

Beth [00:35:13] That's a question I've had since Ben Affleck first came into my consciousness. 

Sarah [00:35:16] Bless him. Bless his heart. He does struggle to make good choices. I can't help but root for him now. It's like Kanye, I can't help myself. 

Beth [00:35:22] I'm much more interested in what Jennifer Garner would say in response to this question. So I just. Good luck, Ben. He's finding himself. 

Sarah [00:35:31] For those of you who don't know, he basically said being trapped in their marriage drove him to drink. Which tells me that he's not taking his sobriety very seriously if he's blaming it on other people. 

Beth [00:35:39] Or perhaps he hasn't done some of the work that he needs to do to process... 

Sarah [00:35:45] No, no, no, no. I do not think Ben Affleck has done the work. I would love for him to. I am rooting for him. I believe, in fact, that Matt Damon has done the work. But I do not believe Ben Affleck has done the work. 

Beth [00:35:52] I wish them all the best and I hope that Jennifer, I hope Jennifer read that and thought, Bless you.

Sarah [00:35:57] Lopez, Garner, all of them. 

Beth [00:35:59] I just, I thought, I hope that that did not affect her heart. That's what I hope. 

Sarah [00:36:03] Mm hmm. 

Beth [00:36:04] Thank you so much for joining us today for this cornucopia discussion. We hope that you love all of the episodes that we have planned for you over the next couple of weeks. As you're traveling and working and hopefully living, your best lives will be back into the news on January 3rd with our premium members and in your podcast feed on January 4th. Until then, have the best end of 2021 available to you. 

Beth [00:36:34] Pantsuit Politics is produced by Studio D Podcast Production. Alise Napp is our managing director.

Sarah Maggie Penton is our community engagement manager. Dante Lima is the composer and performer of our theme music. 

Beth Our show is listener-supported. Special thanks to our executive producers. 

Executive Producers (Read their own names)  Martha Bronitsky, Ali Edwards, Janice Elliot, Sarah Greenup, Julie Haller, Helen Handley, Tiffany Hassler, Emily Holladay, Katie Johnson, Katina Zuganelis Kasling, Barry Kaufman, Molly Kohrs.

The Kriebs, Laurie LaDow, Lilly McClure, Jared Minson, Emily Neesley, The Pentons, Tawni Peterson, Tracy Puthoff, Sarah Ralph, Jeremy Sequoia, Katy Stigers, Karin True, Onica Ulveling, Nick and Alysa Vilelli, Amy Whited.

Beth Melinda Johnston, Ashley Thompson, Michelle Wood, Joshua Allen, Morgan McHugh, Nichole Berklas, Paula Bremer, and Tim Miller. 

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