Struggling With the Good News Cycle
Topics Discussed
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Episode Resources
Americans Are Flush With Cash and Jobs. They Also Think the Economy Is Awful. (The New York Times)
Transcript
Sarah [00:00:00] If we're supposed to be deep, complicated thinkers, then we should be able to hold deep, complicated realities side by side, and the other reality is that there are positive trends that we are making progress on some of the deepest, most difficult problems in front of us, from climate change to the pandemic. There's nothing wrong with acknowledging that. There's nothing wrong with celebrating that. Doesn't mean that you are burying your head in the sand or that you don't care, or that you're not paying attention.
Sarah [00:00:35] This is Sarah Stewart Holland.
Beth [00:00:37] And this is Beth Silvers.
Sarah [00:00:38] Thank you for joining us for Pantsuit Politics.
[00:00:54] Welcome to Pantsuit Politics, we are so glad you're here with us today on today's show, we're going to talk about the good news in the world. There's so much of it out there, so why doesn't it feel like it? Then I'm going to share my experience as a CASA, a court appointed special advocate in a conversation with my friend and supervisor Stephanie Moss. And finally, we're going to talk about what's on our mind outside politics, and that's going to involve Chris Pratt. So buckle up for that conversation.
Beth [00:01:21] Just a teeny bit outside of politics as we talk about Chris Pratt and that controversy. Before we get started, we were so late for you to join us for our holiday huddle as we prepare to enter into all kinds of politically adjacent and otherwise conversations with family and friends for Thanksgiving. You can find all of the information about that in the show notes. Get your tickets soon. We can't wait to see you on November 18th.
Sarah [00:01:42] And if you can't make it at the scheduled time, don't worry a ticket allows you to view the show, performance, conversation, I don't know event, for seven days afterwards, so we really look forward to all of you joining us.
Sarah [00:02:06] Last week, the narrative was everything is lost, all is lost, Democrats are devastated. This week we've taken a bit of a turn in lots of areas. There's lots of good news, good developments. First, we had a really positive jobs report, added more than expected jobs to the economy. Unemployment is down. Then, of course, the House of Representatives passed the one trillion dollar infrastructure bill. It's actually Infrastructure Week, Beth. I loved it when President Biden said that it's finally Infrastructure Week guys. It calls for $110 billion and investing in roads, bridges, major infrastructure projects. We've got investment in internet infrastructure. We've got investment in the power grid. We've got a massive investment in climate change to help communities across the country deal with and prepare for our changing climate. I love the reporting coming out of this bill, I love that Representative Jayapal, who I think has been an extraordinary leader this entire time, got people in a room with the moderates in the face and said, Look me in the eye and promise me, and they just trusted each other. It was bipartisan. We had 13 Republicans voted for it. We're going to have a what I imagine to be an incredibly crowded signing ceremony once they all get back. I think some of them are taking overseas trips and he's waiting for everybody to get back so they can celebrate. So we have a good jobs report. We have the passage of the infrastructure investment bill. We have kids getting vaccinated literally like. It felt like mere hours, but just a couple days, I mean, my Facebook feed was full of kids getting vaccinated this weekend and I couldn't get an appointment till Monday, but my kids are going today as we're recording so incredible, efficient, quick rollout of kids getting vaccinated. So we have all this news, all this really positive news, and yet it doesn't feel like it.
Beth [00:04:07] I read an article by Sarah Xiong in The Atlantic about how America has lost the plot on COVID, and it feels related to me to this inability to experience how good some of the news in America is right now. In this article, she talks about how we have been on this push toward getting kids vaccinated and with the ability to vaccinate kids between five and 11, we're making a huge dent in that. I don't want to leave behind all of the families with little littles who aren't there yet and feel really jealous and kind of lost in this news. I heard that from many of you on Instagram last Friday. So thinking of you as well, the point that this article makes is that we're making a dent in that. And sort of now what? What metrics are we working toward next? When do we know that masking is really no longer a tool that we need to use in most places? Are we looking at death rates? Are we looking at hospitalizations? Transmission doesn't tell the full story, especially as more people are vaccinated. So what are the new metrics? And it just when we think about how I have personally in some ways as a coping mechanism kind of adjusted to this idea that things are just really tough right now and we just have to hunker down and get through the toughness. And I don't know when the toughness is going to be over and I'm not going to pretend to. And so here I go. And I've had that mentality about labor shortage, about supply chain. There's a restaurant that my husband walks to every morning to get a coffee, and we just sort of joke about whether the dining room will be open because it's very random in terms of whether they're going to be fully staffed or not. And we've tried to adjust to that, and I think all of that adjustment has made it really difficult to step back and see news like Axios is reporting over the weekend that the median household checking account balance is 50 percent higher in July of this year than in 2019. 50 percent higher. That's amazing.
Sarah [00:06:10] Yeah.
Beth [00:06:11] That's amazing.
Sarah [00:06:12] The New York Times had a headline Americans are flush with cash and jobs, and they also think the economy is awful. And look, you know, I totally understand what you're saying. I have not been in that place. That is not how I cope with things generally. That's not how I've coped with this particular pandemic. And for months and months, you know, I have been empathetic to people who are struggling, but I have not felt that for a long time. Now a lot of this is massive privilege. You know, I have a flexible work schedule. I have family support. I have not lost anybody to COVID. I don't have any complicating factors. Like I can see all that, and that's why I don't go around crowing about like, what's wrong with you? I'll get over it because that's not. I don't feel that way, either. But I do feel like things are moving in a positive direction. And due to the trauma of the pandemic, especially, you know, as parents, people with caregiving responsibilities in their lives, either of young people or older people, it was it just felt like such a deluge, and we've all felt so out of control. It's hard to get out from underneath that, and it's not like all the repercussions have just disappeared. But some of those repercussions have been positive. People have a lot more money. People are making big changes in their lives for the positive. We talked about that with the great resignation. Even people who struggle with disabilities and medical issues, you know, I have a friend who has a disabled son and she talks about how COVID was really positive for her in that all these things she's needed to make her life better for so long, particularly virtual appointments are now a reality across the board. And that has dramatically affected her life in a positive direction. And so it's just hard to tease all that out. And I think the big thing is, despite the fact that we are flush with cash and jobs, we experience our government as consumers. This is something you and I have talked about before. This is something we write about in our upcoming book. I think it's hugely problematic. And so if we experience our government as consumers and we have this mindset of consuming and every headline is prices are up, prices are up, prices are up, prices are up, then. And not just headlines. The reality things are more expensive. Absolutely. No doubt about that. You know, and I didn't have to go buy a used car out of necessity when the prices are up 40 percent. And I don't want to take that for granted either. But. You know, I think it's hard when when that is our primary prism, when that is definitely one of the primary narratives coming out of the media that it's tough as consumers. That becomes it's tough all the way around.
Beth [00:08:54] It's a wayfinding challenge right now because we are at the beginning of so many things. The beginning of the end of the pandemic. I think I hope the passage of this infrastructure bill is a beginning because executing this successfully is going to be an enormous challenge. Executing this successfully when at the outset, the federal government is not going to be immune from supply chain issues from labor shortages, the things that are going to be required to put this into practice are going to be really hard and we all love good, well-functioning infrastructure. And I'll tell you, I'm the first to complain when roads are closed as the work being done to create that infrastructure is ongoing. So there is a lot of kind of pain in front of us still. I'm trying to do a better job putting that pain in context.
[00:09:46] You know, I was watching some commentary unfold about the Let's Go Brandon phenomenon. If you don't know what I'm talking about, there are certain you right leaning people who have adopted the phrase Let's go Brandon as a substitute for Joe Biden. And it's easy to get sort of down about that. But then I started thinking, You know, I don't think I care because I would rather be in an America where some percentage of the public speaks in an immature way about the president than an America where the president constantly speaks in an immature way about the American public and about world leaders and about everything all the time, which is where we were, you know, so I'm trying to just kind of step back and reframe there are there will always be problems and there will always be challenges. And take that mindset that I've been in. Yes, things are difficult and we have to get through it. But also just recognize that we are in what feels more like a spring than a fall to me when I think about the big picture of what's happening. I hope that I can start to internalize some of that goodness, too. Even as I have tried to protect myself from the hard and hard is not even the hard doesn't do it justice. I mean, it's been brutal. It has, and there is unbelievable grief and trauma and difficulty that will take years to get passed. I just want to be able to live with both things at the same time.
Sarah [00:11:15] Well, because here's what else I think happens. I think without a doubt, coming from particularly Republican media, I mean, there's no debate that the currency is fear and anxiety, fear of the other side, everything's getting worse. Everything's terrible. I'm not debating that, however. I think there is also the instinct on the other side of the aisle on the democratic liberal progressive side of the aisle, which I've been since I'm 18, so is my mama. I can talk about it. You know, I'm saying like, there's this sense that like if you don't constantly. Adopt this posture of everything is terrible. See how bad everything is. Then you're not paying attention and you're not a serious thinker, and I reject that. I am paying very close attention and I am a serious thinker and I am not going to sort of morally posture for my people that everything's a dumpster fire because it's not. And that's damaging. And that is maybe an emotional need not describing an actual political or policy reality. And I'm not denying that need and I'm not saying that like, I get it and I'm not a Pollyanna, and I'm not denying the very hard problems and deep struggles that we have in this country. Some more than others, without a doubt. Without a doubt, however. If we're supposed to be deep, complicated thinkers, then we should be able to hold deep, complicated reality side by side. And the other reality is that there are positive trends that we are making progress on some of the deepest, most difficult problems in front of us, from climate change to the pandemic. And that's important, too, in that in there, there's nothing wrong with acknowledging that there's nothing wrong with celebrating that. Doesn't mean that you are burying your head in the sand or that you don't care or that you're not paying attention.
Beth [00:13:19] I think that's all right, and we have to notice the negative trends, too, we have to see where it's clear, as we've talked about in public schools, that there are some trends that are concerning. We have to look at events like the devastating loss of life at a concert in Houston over the weekend and ask what we need to ask about that which includes both how are we conducting ourselves in crowds and how are crowds staffed and what are the issues that cause working in security to be a really difficult, unattractive job right now? I mean, there are just so many factors going on, and I think if we can hold together, there are good trends and there are challenging trends and discuss those a lot in our circles of people. I think it will help us kind of shake off some of our malaise and move into a different space emotionally.
Sarah [00:14:13] Well, because I think that's the evolution I'm looking for. The evolution I'm looking for is that we forever abandoned the idea that things are great or things are terrible because they are always both at the same time. But I worry that we lean so hard into the conflict, into the negative trends that we really do miss the positive trends. And this isn't a new development. Human beings have a negativity bias. And so as our world gets bigger and more complicated and more interconnected, we need to correct for that. We need to say, OK, wait, I feel myself leaning into this is terrible. And this is and I'm anxious about this. What am I missing? Because our brains and our emotions, you know, like I say, that their data, it's important. It's irrelevant, but it's not the complete reality. And I think it's really important. Especially as we try to learn and integrate and evolve out of this incredibly difficult experience that we acknowledge that. Things are never all one thing. And the news is never all one thing. And. We have to to build that muscle of holding that complexity and asking hard questions and not reaching for the easy villain. You know, even with the concert in Texas, it's easy to reach for a villain. Travis Scott has been arrested twice for inciting violence at his own concerts. And also, he's an enormously popular artist. And so we have to ask why that is. And it's not because he's bad, and everyone who listens to his music is bad. Those are hard questions to ask. It's hard to ask, why do we have money? But we feel like everything's terrible. It's hard to ask, When are we going to stop wearing the masks? When are we going to stop wearing the masks? That's a hard question to ask. Of each other, considering how fraught that debate has been the entire time. It doesn't mean we shouldn't do it. It doesn't mean that we shouldn't acknowledge that positive things are happening out of fear for how that positivity will be exploited by the other side. Because at the end of the day in the pandemic, there is no other side. We're all in it together, and that's what we've had to learn the hard way. And I think that's true of all news. We're in it together. And so holding the complexity, the good with the bad leaning into the good where we can as the best path forward.
Sarah [00:16:59] I'm so thrilled to be here with Stephanie Moss, the CASA director for Western Kentucky. So our CASA is actually under another organization, Child Watch, which isn't typical, but we have a wonderful, amazing relationship. But you are a CASA director. Tell the people, what is a CASA?
Stephanie Moss [00:17:18] A CASA is a court-appointed special advocate. That's the acronym. And they are volunteers, just everyday citizens who decide they want to make an impact with a child in foster care. So they decide that they want to be the voice of the child in the state of Kentucky children when there is an open court case for neglect, dependency, or abuse they do not go to court usually, sometimes maybe when they're older. But children are not parties to their own cases, of course. So sometimes their voice is not heard what a CASA volunteer does is they get to know the child, they get to know their needs, they get to know what they like, what they want, what they want in the outcome of their case, who they want to live with, how they're doing in all aspects as far as educationally, socially, developmentally, especially if a lot of their needs have been neglected over the last several years, then a lot of times there's a tremendous amount of needs. And so the CASA volunteer, makes sure that all of those needs are being addressed as best as they can by the court, by the cabinet, by all the support of people in the child's lives. Of course, that season when a child is in foster care is one of the most traumatic experiences for that child because not only were they removed for something traumatic, but now being removed is another layer on top of that, where they're being put in stranger's homes and new schools. They're getting all kinds of new experiences that for a lot of kids, is scary. It's uncomfortable. There's a lot of unknowns. There's a lot of anxiety that goes along with that. And so the cost of CASA volunteer is a special person. That's why we call them court-appointed special advocates because they're not afraid to step into that broken and difficult and uncertain season of this kid's life to say, I am here just for you and I'm going to speak up for you. Tell me what you need and as best as they can, however old they are ever. They're able to communicate that.
Sarah [00:19:26] Because, you know, the kids in the system, they have lawyers.
Stephanie Moss [00:19:28] Right. In Kentucky, they do.
Sarah [00:19:31] In Kentucky, and they have social workers, right? Which those can often change, just like foster parents can change. And so there can be a lot of instability, right? And I think what really appealed to me about CASA is that it brings that that long term presence that no matter how much instability there is in the child's life, there's one adult. I mean, even a really great teacher is going to change from year to year. Or a coach like there's, but there's one person who's going to be advocating for them and sticking up for them and communicating with them the whole time.
[00:20:02] Well, I do want to be upfront and honest that there is a lot of investment in becoming a CASA want to get the hard parts of CASAing out of the way? I don't know if CASA is a verb, but I just made one, which is, you know, you have to go through a background check and like a mental health screening kind of thing. And there's how many hours of training do we have to go through?
Stephanie Moss [00:20:20] 30 hours.
Sarah [00:20:21] It didn't feel like that. I got lucky because I did it during COVID, so there wasn't a lot else going on and it was all virtual. I hope they keep a lot of the virtual training makes a lot easier for people to come to that. I think when there's Zoom trainings, but so there's quite a bit upfront investment. That's really important because you I mean, there's a lot to learn and understand as far as especially like, I think the court process is very intimidating to people. You know, I had a law degree, so I wasn't I wasn't overly intimidated by that process. But with the training, I think there's a lot of getting people used to all that.
Stephanie Moss [00:20:52] Right. We have people contact us who want to consider volunteering for classes who know absolutely nothing about the child welfare system have never stepped foot in a courtroom before, and they just said, I just feel so much compassion towards these kids. You know, they do not get the attention they deserve. There's so much going on in their lives. I've always felt a desire to help with kids in foster care, but I don't know what to do. I don't feel like I can be a foster parent now because we always say, if you can be a foster parent, that is the most fantastic thing you can do. It's 24-7. But for a lot of people, it's just not possible. Being a CASA volunteer is a way to make a true difference in the life of a child. And like you said, it is a big commitment, but it's not the 24-7 right and it is long term. We cannot, you know, tell somebody how long their case is going to last. We've had cases that have gone very well, where they've returned to parent within three to six months. We've had cases where they're still open after seven years because there's absolutely no placement. There's no home that's willing to take this child. And so you never know what what's going to happen, but we have people from all walks of life who want to be a CASA. And so our training is meant for that person that wants to help but needs to know what they're getting into and how to get started. So, you know, it's interesting because I get the pleasure of interviewing all of the volunteers, and I love that part because it's interesting for me to find out what really motivates people to want to help. Yeah. What is their background and experience that they bring to be able to, you know, give to a child? And you know, the things that I see every time is that they have a heart for kids. They have this compassion and this just sense of being compelled to do something to want to use their voice to speak up and not just sit on the sidelines. And then I also see that, you know, they're not afraid to try something new and learn they have to be life time learners because we always get these aha moments in training where somebody says, Oh, I had no idea that domestic violence was this bad. Yeah, it's so hard to get out of that, you know, or that substance abuse was so rampant. You know, in the interview we asked, you know, why do you think kids are removed from their homes? You know what causes abuse and neglect? And a lot of people will say, Well, it's stress. You know, there's finances, there's a lot of answers that things that they dealt with, you know, every day family issues. But then when they get into the training, they realize, you know, there is a whole nother layer because the cabinet doesn't remove kids for stress or, you know, you had a bad day and you didn't discipline the way you wanted to. But they, you know, there's another layer on top of that. We see a lot of mental health issues, substance abuse, domestic violence and learning about those things. It's not something you talk about in everyday conversation with people. And so it usually is a very eye-opening experience. But then after the training, they feel they always learn something new and feel like, OK, maybe I can help.
Sarah [00:24:01] Yeah, I think what's so key in that training is I just think there's an easy narrative about bad parents, and I think that training does a really good job of just chipping away at that and building a lot of empathy for the parents, even the worst of the worse, right? That there's almost always trauma present in their childhood. That there is often substance abuse, mental health because you can't advocate for a child that loves their parent. As a person who thinks their parent is a terrible person. In my experience, I think that's very hard to do. And so I think that that's I think, look, I think that training would be helpful for all humans, right? I agree. Just comprehensive training about like the reality of so many people's lived existence. I think you're right. I think you have to be a curious person. You know, I've been telling people is like, Look, I think it's a good fit for a lot of people with, like me, I have there are people that expressed such surprise when I tell them I'm a CASA and I'm like, Look, I don't like, I have a lot of parenting energy and a lot of excess parenting energy. No, there's not a problem for me to direct it some people's way. I'm sure my children are ecstatic that I'm directing that, not all at them, because it is a lot of that sort of big picture parenting energy. That's what it feels like. It feels like you're the person who is paying attention to everything at once for this child. So you're paying attention to their their physical milestones, which maybe they're a really good foster parent already is doing. That's fine. But, you know, maybe the foster parent because this is 24 seven is really consumed with the physical and behavioral side, whereas you can pay attention to the school side and you can you have the time to talk to their teachers and talk to their guidance counselors and just make I mean, this is not a huge amount of time. You can learn a lot from a guidance counselor in a 15 minute phone call and just putting all those all those pieces together in a really like comprehensive way and thinking, OK, what does this child need or what are they asking me for? What's missing from the picture? Or what is the foster parent way too busy to pay attention to? Or what is the school system not doing their job with regards to like that kind of stuff? And I think, you know, there's a lot of people that have that skill and no place to apply it to, right? And so I think Casa presents such a great opportunity to do that. And I think, you know, the court side, I think once you get to training and you do it one time and you're at once, you spend a couple of hours in court, you realize, Oh, this is just this is another gathering of human people. This is all this is like with the same sort of emotions and drama. And then we're lucky because we have the most amazing Family Court judge. And I think that CASA, being a CASA would be more challenging in an environment where the Family Court judge was perhaps less empathetic or less of a site which ours truly is.
Stephanie Moss [00:26:42] And that is the thing that our Casa volunteers are most intimidated by when they first start is usually going to court. The other thing that they're often intimidated by is meeting the biological parents and talking to them. But again, like you said, we focus our training on that, how to talk to them and. You know, having that compassion towards them as well. And a lot of times it's the social worker that's working with the parent predominantly. But you know, we have a staff team of four full time staff that work in CASA of West Kentucky and every one of our volunteers has a staff supervisor that walks with them every step of the way. They help them write their report. They sit with them in court. They talk through everything. So before you get to that actual court day, you've already talked through and, you know, identified, what are the issues before us today? So while it is intimidating, we never walk in without already having had all those conversations with most of the parties in the case already. Right.
Sarah [00:27:40] And I think, you know, look, I have a very difficult case is about a 30 minute drive away. It works out perfectly because I spent the entire drive back on the phone with Stephanie debriefing her on everything this happened. And what should I do next? So, yeah, the supervisors are incredibly helpful. I've never felt sort of like thrown to the wolves or not knowing what to do or not knowing who to talk to. I went from a very easy case to a very difficult case, and both times I've just felt like I've learned a lot. I've been very supportive. I mean, you know, my difficult case, I'm trying to visit more than once a month, but that's usually the recommendation is to visit your child about once a month, which is just not, especially if you know they're close by. You're talking about like with my easier case, it was like an hour a month, like maybe an additional hour on court reports and phone calls. Nothing a major time investment or nothing that I could not. I mean, I have a pretty flexible schedule, so it was easy to to squeeze in. And you know, I told you, I struggle when people are like, I don't know how you do that because to me, that's I think what's frustrating to me about that expression is it's it says to me that you acknowledge there's a very difficult problem, but that it's just so hard you can't be near it. And to me, like, that's just not my personality. I'm an enneagram one. Like, if it's a hard problem, then we have to lean into it, not say, Oh, it's so hard, how do we even start? And I really think, like CASA is really good at like, you don't feel like it's insurmountable. Even in this case, I'm on right now that it's just it's really, really hard. But at least on there, at least, at least we're trying, you know, makes me tear up. Like, at least we're doing something that's better than doing nothing.
Stephanie Moss [00:29:14] And I think that's what's key. I mean, you want we need the community surrounding these children to leave these children to fend for themselves is the absolute worst thing our community could do and to expect the courts and the social workers to do everything without support. They don't get the support they need. They are completely overwhelmed and teachers are overwhelmed. Foster parents are overwhelmed. And if there is anything we can do to alleviate that burden, you know you are talking about foster parents and just being on, you know, adding additional parenting level there. The cost to gets to do some research about the case. They get to call foster parents don't even have access to all the information we do about the kids we serve. And most times they appreciate so much the research we're able to do to provide recommendations for things, because when are they going to have time to sit and do that when they're just trying to get all the mouths fed and everyone to bed and go to all their appointments they need to go to? So, I mean, I've always felt a very strong conviction that it's the whole community's responsibility to take care of our kids and especially the kids that need us most.
Sarah [00:30:24] Well, you know, I have a friend who's a former social worker and now is a CASA, and she was saying it's also really beneficial for the social workers. I think that they can sort of feel defensive sometimes like you're coming in here like, you know, and I'm the one with twenty five kids. But it's like, also, I can I can say things in court. You can't say, like, let me help you, let me advocate in a way that you can't because you have supervisors and twenty five other kids in rules from the state to follow and those things. And I think that so it can it can alleviate the burden on everybody. And you look, here's the thing it's like it's hard being a kid. You're little. You don't understand all the words being used, like it's hard in the best circumstances to be a kid or a teenager and to be a kid or a teenager who has been abused or neglected or abandoned or is struggling with behavioral challenges or developmental delays or learning disabilities. That is truly the most vulnerable people in our communities, and I think you're right, like if you are convicted about substance abuse, if you are convicted about the sort of crisis level overburdening of our public school systems, if you are convicted about mental health, I mean, truly, whatever is on your heart, helping a traumatized child who you know, we know so much because of the Aces study that this is where so many of these problems start. Like, if you want to go upstream and prevent the downstream problems, these children are the people you want to help.
Stephanie Moss [00:31:54] And like you said, it is a little bit of an emotional responsibility. There is that level of fear of walking into someone else's emotional baggage. We all have so much, you know, in our own families, so we all try to avoid our own family drama. Why would we want to walk into somebody else's family drama? But these kids didn't have a choice, right? You know, we do get to choose if we want to do that, they don't get that choice at all. Yeah. And they're not at that age where they're even able to understand what's happening. And so as a as a Grown-Up,.
Sarah [00:32:29] Even like a 16 year old.
Stephanie Moss [00:32:31] No, especially not so many of the kids in care have are not developmentally where they should be. You know, some of the kids come into foster care not even knowing what grade they're supposed to be in. And definitely the last year and a half, you know, didn't help that. But you know, there's so many things that you don't even know what questions to ask at the beginning. But the CASA is there to help try to unravel some of that those complex issues and try to figure out, you know, what are the most important needs that need to be addressed at that moment?
Sarah [00:33:06] And look, you know, I would I wouldn't make the case that even if you're a person who struggles with feeling hugely responsible for other people's emotional baggage, I do not have that journey. That's not my journey. I do not feel responsible for other people's emotions. But if you are, I mean, like, listen. Trial by fire. There's no better way to sort that out. So is to like, learn to put healthy boundaries in place to learn like you can do what you can do. That's what that's what. That's what's available to you, right? You know, light being a CASA will fix a savior complex. You know what I'm saying, like because you can do what you can do. And and that's the solution is not that every individual is a savior, it's that everybody does what they can do and that adds up over time. Yes. And I think that's what's real. That's what you learn doing work like this.
Stephanie Moss [00:33:54] Yeah. And it's great that we have each other in those really difficult moments when something happens that was out of your control that you're frustrated about, you can cry together, you can get angry together, you can talk to people, you know, within the case, all of the different people working for that child. And then you do have to just decide, OK, we have to walk away. And then there's so many. There's just so many cases that there are so many other needs. There never becomes a time where there's not another pressing need that then requires your attention. And you know, it's just one of those things that. It will unfortunately never go away. We wish that we didn't need to be there, but I always felt very, very strongly about the quote. That said, all that's necessary for the triumph of the evil is for good men to do nothing. And if our other option is doing nothing, then let's try to do something.
Sarah [00:34:50] Yeah, well, and I think you just don't. It's such an important reminder, especially when you're talking about the life of a child. You don't know what happens after you walk away. You don't know the impact of what you've done up until that point, even if it feels minuscule to you. You know, I always think about, you know, it was like this one woman. It was like the wife of the governor and who looked it over and said, Aren't you as pretty as a puppy or something like that? Like something that now you would be like, Wow, that's sort of offensive. But it meant everything to Oprah, who had an incredibly traumatizing childhood, who said, like, you know, it's just those when those those little touch points were an adult said, You matter, it's important I'm rooting for you. That really does have an impact. I think it's easy to get in a space. And I think we, you know, it's easy to get in that space, particularly post-pandemic, where it just feels like that trauma is sort of this this mountain that's ever present that we can't climb and I just don't feel that way. And I think the resiliency of children and being present in the in the presence of these resilient kids is a good reminder that like, no, there is life after trauma and trauma is impactful and it is hard and we know that. But humans are resilient and kids are resilient too.
Stephanie Moss [00:36:05] Right, and the success stories definitely are not shared enough. We heard a fantastic one where and we hear this one quite frequently when a parent is able to get clean and then they thank the social workers and the the court for taking their kids away. Thank you because I didn't realize how much I needed somebody to intervene and somebody to give me this opportunity and this support to get my life on track. And then they get to take their kids home and be reunited, and there is no better feeling than that. That happens all the time. But we don't hear about those stories as much as we hear about the traumatic ones.
Sarah [00:36:43] Yeah, I think that's a good point to end on is that it does. It's not just that this work matters because we are, you know, being present when they're at their hardest moments, but also because we're getting them closer to the best moments. I think that's really, really powerful and impactful. And it's just I came out recommend this work enough. I think it is incredibly just life-giving to be able to think like, well, you know, whatever stress I have in my life, whatever I did today, this mattered in this. This was important, and I think that that I would want that experience for everybody. So we will put lots of information in the show notes about how you can find the organizations and the CASA organizations in your communities so that I hope that many of you listening as we're in National Adoption Awareness Month can look into this opportunity to serve in your communities. And thank you so much for coming.
Stephanie Moss [00:37:37] Thank you for having me.
Sarah [00:37:49] Beth, what's on your mind outside politics?
Beth [00:37:52] Reluctantly, Sarah, Chris Pratt is on my mind outside of politics. I saw first a tweet about a video of him that I didn't have context for.
Sarah [00:38:03] You missed the original post.
Beth [00:38:04] I later learned the context.
Sarah [00:38:07] OK, for those of you who don't know what we're talking about, Chris Pratt, star of the Avengers Parks and Rec, posted on Instagram the following post. It was accompanied by a picture of his new wife, Katherine Schwarzenegger, looking lovingly at him. "Guys for real. Look how she's looking at me. I mean, find you somebody that looks at you like that, you know, we met in church. She's giving me an amazing life. A gorgeous, healthy daughter. She chew so loudly that sometimes I put in my earbuds to drown it out. But that's love. She helps with everything in return. Periodically, I open a jar of pickles. That's the trade. Her heart is pure and it belongs to me. My greatest treasure right next to my Ken Griffey Jr. Upper Deck rookie card, which, if you know, you know, is saying a lot. It's her birthday in about six weeks, so if I don't give her anything, I'll tell her to look back on this post. Love you, honey!" And the internet erupted in outrage on many levels over this seemingly innocuous post. I mean, a little little cringy with no context, I think. I hope everybody can cringe a little bit at this at the I open pickles. She does everything else. If I forget her birthday. I hope this is good. Six weeks before. Like, I think he's trying to be funny. But many of the jokes were cringy. The part that set me off in a really strong direction is the. She's given me an amazing life, a gorgeous, healthy daughter, because if you are a purveyor of celebrity knowledge as I am, you will know that Chris Pratt was previously married Anna Faris, and they had a son who was born nine weeks premature. They were like, I think, ambassadors for the March of Dimes. He had a lot of health problems. And so the second I saw the post, I was furious at the at best, completely un-self-aware, "healthy daughter" at worst cruel, "healthy daughter". That seemed to be the thing most people were really, really mad about. It's certainly what I was really, really mad about.
Beth [00:40:06] To the cringy ness of the post. I see when I read this someone who is clearly going through some things and working out a new identity for himself and working really hard at that new identity and who has picked a direction and is really going hard at that direction. So the video has him in very patriotic wear talking about listening to Christian music and like really leaning in to God spoke to me. Now I will tell you the way that he spoke in the video before I had any context about the original post did not strike me as that different from how a lot of people in my life talk and how a lot of people experience their relationship with their faith. And so I don't have any objection to any of that. And I don't like a pile on to that. That just prompts the equal opposite reaction. I feel like this is just led to a series of equal opposite reactions ping pong back and forth across the internet and a really destructive, unhealthy garbage way. It just sounds to me like Chris Pratt is having a little bit of an identity crossroads right now, and probably could just sit down with someone who's a professional to sort through that, and I hope he's doing that.
Sarah [00:41:33] Well, here's the thing. Look, I'm not mad at Chris Pratt for going to church, go to church. Be your best self. I don't care. But listen, dude. The reality as a celebrity and the reality in America right now is that sort of evangelical Christianity is becoming a political identity. You know, we see this in the demographics, we see this in the polling. People don't go to church, but they identify as evangelicals. This is partly due to the fact, like some theological choices a long time ago, racism leadership from the evangelical within the evangelical community look like there's whole books written about this. OK? Chris Pratt's not going to change that. That's a reality. So when you when you claim a certain type of Christian identity, which he is clearly leaning into and has leaned into in the past, you are also claiming a particular political identity and you might and maybe you don't care, reap the consequences if perhaps you participate in a universal global very popular entertainment chain like Marvel, where there's not a lot of room for controversial political identity. Just sayin like and so maybe he didn't care. Fine. But like, that's nobody's mad at you for going to church, but the language you're using in the identity you are claiming isn't just about going to church anymore. Period. I'm still very angry about what he said. I thought it was hurtful. It's just, you know, as a person who's given birth to a child who wasn't healthy upon birth, it's harmful to say like, Well, she gave that to me, is it the people who don't choose differently? It's just a shitty thing to say, and he should apologize for it, and he hasn't. Instead, he doubled down on this identity he's leaning into. But look like I don't wish harm on Chris Pratt. I didn't go to Twitter and proclaim that he is the worst human on planet Earth. I texted my girlfriends as God intended, and we bitched about Chris Pratt in our text thread. You know, like, and I'm, you know, I'm still mad about it, and I'm still probably not going to see Chris Pratt at anything else, even though I freakin love Guardians of the Galaxy. Maybe that's what I'm really mad about, deep down, and it's now he's robbed me of this dang entertainment franchise that I really enjoy. But like, you know? The fervor and the like hatred directed at him is not the answer, but I do think what he said was really, really hurtful.
Beth [00:44:00] I agree that it's hurtful and I think what I'm trying to say very inarticulately is, I'm not sure with just these two pieces of context that Chris Pratt is in a space to know that right now, I just I just think there's something going on here that that needs to be worked out. Here's a question I have for you. Would you really not see another Guardians of the Galaxy movie with him in it?
Sarah [00:44:23] I've been, like, sketchy on him for a while. And it just gets to the point where you can't see the character anymore. All you can see is this person. You know, I guess that would like sometimes that you can get over it like, I just like George Clooney. Now, if you don't ever see that character anymore, you do see George Clooney because he's so famous, it doesn't matter. But yeah, I think it might be. It would get to a point where it's hard for me to get over, and I dislike the person so much. It's like I wouldn't go watch a movie. I don't see Woody Allen movies anymore. I don't listen to Michael Jackson music anymore, ever under any circumstances. And now I am not comparing what Chris Pratt said or did to what. You know, Woody Allen or Michael Jackson said, I'm not, but I'm just saying like, it does get to a certain point with me if if it touches you like personally enough and this for a lot of reasons really did to me. And it just, I mean, I'll probably cave, let's be honest. But I don't know right now, I'm pretty mad.
Beth [00:45:18] I feel like I'm hearing you say that you think he knew exactly what he was doing, and maybe that's where we feel differently about it. I'm not sure that. I think that.
Sarah [00:45:25] No, I don't think he. I don't think he knew how that was going to sound. I don't think Chris Pratt, like, hates his son or hates Anna Faris. Maybe they have a lot of conflict in a I don't know, and I don't. It's not my business to know I don't care. But once he realized that that particular part of the post was hurtful, he should have apologized.
Beth [00:45:44] I agree with that.
Sarah [00:45:44] He should have said I didn't get it. You guys, I'm sorry. He didn't have to apologize to going to church. I don't even need him to apologize to like her heart belongs to me, even though I think that is super weird and cringy. Like whatever you have a like a very traditional patriarchal relationship inside your marriage, it works for you. I don't care. But like, you are famous, a lot of people listen to you. They're not mad at you for going to church. Some people might be, as we previously discussed, that's a political oddity now. But whatever the like, once you knew how hurtful that was that your son is going to someday probably find this controversy on the internet. Apologize. Just apologize. It's not going to be good enough for Twitter. I know that. I know that. But it would be good enough for me.
Beth [00:46:26] Well, I think that's helpful, and I think I like that you point out that you texted your friends like God intended. I believe we need more of that. I think that that is the right place to work this out, because if you work it out in your life like that, then somebody who read the Instagram post and thought it was sweet, because let's be honest, a lot of people are going to have that reaction. A lot of people I know and love are going to read that Instagram post and think it's sweet and no judgment on them for that, I still love them. I think a lot of people have no idea about his relationship with Anna Faris or any of the information that made this hurtful. You can like talk about that in your group and the and the person has space to say, Oh, that does feel different. I don't I don't love that. Instead of being thrust into which identity is under attack here, I'm just worn out with the identities under attack on social media. I'm I'm worn out with it. I can't do it anymore.
Sarah [00:47:27] And I get it too. And I get people are going to say, like, See, look, you can't even be nice about your wife. No, you can't. Not when you're a global celebrity. You have to be careful with your words. That's the reality we live in. See Segment A - the world is complicated. Everything holds good and bad. It's nice to lean into the good, but that doesn't mean you barrel through it and ignore the consequences, either. Like, it's you've got to hold it all at the same time. No, you can't just go on, say whatever you want, and because you intended it nicely, it doesn't matter. That's not the world we live in anymore. And you know, it never really was for a lot of people, but it's certainly not for everybody now.
Beth [00:48:02] I think that's right. And you know, I think that's why I feel like a twinge of sadness alongside any cringe almost in everything now. I watched a little bit of the Dave Hollis asking people to buy his book, Instagram Fiasco.
Sarah [00:48:19] I think asking is a very nice way to put that. I don't think he was asking. I think he was bullying.
Beth [00:48:25] Same thing, though. I felt like, yes, this is this is almost absurdly bad. But I also felt really sad because I kept thinking what is going on with him that this is happening. And I only watched 11 minutes of what apparently went on for a couple hours. And it just makes me think like, who is walking alongside with you, who is walking alongside you through these moments where something is going on with you, you're having a strong emotional reaction. I get it like selling a book was a difficult experience for me the first time, and I'm trying to prepare myself for a difficult experience to do it again. But I'm not doing it by myself. I explicitly have you as a partner, which helps tremendously. I could not do it otherwise. There are also lots of people in my life who check in on things like that. You feel good about this? You like the direction this is going? Where are you? And I just want that for. I watched this with Chris Pratt and I watched it with Dave Hollis and lots of other people and think, Where are your people?
Sarah [00:49:22] Well, and here's the thing I think I'm just at the point with celebrities, you're going to have to have some self-awareness, especially celebrity at that level now, like, look, people don't always choose that. Nobody understands that more than me. Well, you know, like Britney Spears says, but you know what I'm saying, like, I love celebrity culture. I've read and thought a lot about it like, and I get that you cannot understand what it's like to be that famous until it happens to you. A lot of times it happens in ways you don't expect and cannot control. But if you want me to continue to support you once you've reached that level, like get your people, get some therapy like this is the self-awareness we're talking about, like understand the impact of your words. This is the evolution, right? The complication that celebrities took a lot of power with Instagram and don't have to depend on studio systems and publicists and PRs. But like with that power comes great responsibility in a global interconnected environment with which we live, right? And so I just need you to acknowledge that and see that. And you know, if the consequence is you don't and therefore you lose some of your celebrity like worse things can happen to you. That's not. No one's entitled to celebrity. That's one of my favorite things I've ever read in an interview with Rosie O'Donnell. She just thought, like, you got to be prepared because it does not last. Even in the best case scenario, with all the self-awareness, you have to be prepared for that tide to ebb. And so, you know, I think that that's just a really important thing to hold celebrities to account to or like just to remind them just to have a conversation about. Now is Twitter the place for that conversation? No, it is not. But I sure hope it's happening.
Beth [00:50:56] And it's just hard because all of those mediums that have created a new level of responsibility for celebrities in managing what they're able to share so freely. Also causes us to over identify with them. Mm hmm. So if you see this post from Chris Pratt and see the reaction to it and you have ever posted, get you someone who looks at you like this, which you know is not an original post, right? Right, right, right. Then you start to get really caught up in that. And you know that no matter what level of attention you receive online, someone always receives less than you do and wants to take a shot at you for it. You got a thousand followers. Well, somebody who has 100 thinks the way you're doing something is dumb and they're going to talk about it loudly, and that's hard. And so I think that it's just easy not to be able to separate ourselves from Chris Pratt and to say someone should have looked at this for him. But your posts about get you somebody who looks at you like this is fine. It's just really complicated. And so I got a lot of grace for everybody up through and including Chris Pratt. Even though I do, I do hope that someone is having some serious conversation with him about where he is in his life right now.
Sarah [00:52:13] I hope it's Arnold and his little mini donkeys. He seems to have very much evolved, brought on a lot of self-awareness. So I'm hoping Arnold's giving him some good advice. Look, we all need that. We all need good advice. We all need self-awareness. We all need to embrace the complicated nature of both the good and the bad. We like to do that here. We like it when you guys come along with us on the wide ranging journeys we often take through the complicated nature of our news cycles, from infrastructure packages to celebrity posts. Thank you for joining us for another episode of Pantsuit Politics. Don't forget that our holiday huddle is next week. Make sure you buy your tickets through the link in the show notes. If you can't join us live, your tickets still get you access to the recording for seven days after the event, and you don't want to miss this. We will be back in your ears on Friday, and until then, keep it nuanced y'all.
Beth [00:53:07] Pantsuit Politics is produced by Studio D Podcast Production.
Alise Napp is our managing director.
Sarah [00:53:12] Megan Hart and Maggie Penton are our community engagement managers. Dante Lima is the composer and performer of our theme music.
Beth [00:53:19] Our show is listener-supported. Special thanks to our executive producers.
Executive Producers (Read their own names) [00:53:23] Martha Bronitsky, Linda Daniel, Ali Edwards, Janice Elliot, Sarah Greenup, Julie Haller, Helen Handley, Tiffany Hassler, Emily Holladay, Katie Johnson, Katina Zuganelis Kasling, Barry Kaufman, Molly Kohrs.
The Kriebs, Laurie LaDow, Lilly McClure, David McWilliams, Jared Minson, Emily Neesley, Danny Ozment, The Pentons, Tawni Peterson, Tracy Puthoff, Sarah Ralph, Jeremy Sequoia, Katy Stigers, Karin True, Onica Ulveling, Nick and Alysa Vilelli, Amy Whited.
Beth [00:54:02] Melinda Johnston, Ashley Thompson, Michelle Wood, Joshua Allen, Morgan McHugh, Nichole Berklas, Paula Bremer, and Tim Miller.
Sarah [00:54:12] Now I put my dog in her crate, and now she's eating very loudly. Cookie stop. Stop. She's like, what? Now she's going back to eating.