Why All of Us Can Be Thankful for the Infrastructure Bill
Topics Discussed
The Bipartisan Infrastructure Bill (with Adie Tomer)
Outside of Politics: Sports & The University of Alabama
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Episode Resources
Infrastructure in Real Life series (Pantsuit Politics)
America has an infrastructure bill. What happens next? (Brookings)
Transcript
Adie Tomer [00:00:00] That's the big thing. Both be patient and be dogged in defending what your community needs, and you'd be surprised. Voices can be heard. And if you don't have your voice heard right, the retirees, you have nothing but time on their hands or to make sure their voice is heard. This is a project for the future. So how do we make sure families and younger people are heard in this process for how we build a different kind of America going forward?
Sarah [00:00:30] This is Sarah Stewart Holland.
Beth [00:00:31] And this Beth Silvers.
Sarah [00:00:33] Thank you for joining us for Pantsuit Politics.
[00:00:49] Hello, everyone, welcome! On today's episode of Pantsuit Politics, we're going to talk about the Infrastructure Investment and Jobs Act literally being signed into law by President Biden as we are recording the show. We're bringing back fan-favorite, Adie Tomer who joined us for our summer infrastructure series to talk to us about what is actually in the bill, what it means for us, what it means for our children, even our children's children won't go that far and how to talk about it out in our communities or perhaps around the Thanksgiving table.
[00:01:20] Outside of politics are going to share our recent experience at the University of Alabama football game. And of course, if you want to go all in on infrastructure and you missed our summer infrastructure series infrastructure in real life. Please go check it out. We put the link in the show notes we tackle electricity, water, transportation, and new infrastructure like broadband in our four part series. We're really proud of it. So if you missed it this summer, right now is the perfect opportunity to check it out. And then we have another piece of content related to infrastructure we wanted to tell you about.
Beth [00:01:48] Our fantastic longtime listener, friend, supporter Beth Shaam has created a teaching guide for our infrastructure in real life series. It's very professional. It has, like all the fancy standards that your lessons are supposed to meet. When I first talked to Beth about making this, she said, Well, like, I don't really like teaching guides, so I'm having trouble figuring out how I'm going to do this. But that is what made her the perfect person to do it because she has real world experience with what is helpful and what is not helpful, and what will give you a starting point if you want to use these infrastructure in real life episodes in your classrooms. We know we have lots of teachers out there. We are trying to think in every way we can about how to support all you teachers out there in the midst of a rough school year. And so we hope that this might be a helpful way to bring these topics in to your classrooms. And we will put that link in the show notes as well with eternal gratitude to Beth.
Sarah [00:02:40] And really quickly before we dive in, we have our holiday huddle this Thursday. We are so excited to sit down and have conversation with all of you about how to navigate difficult conversations. Hot takes all of the things at our family gatherings and during the holiday season. Your ticket allows you to play the event for seven days. So even if you can't join us Thursday night, we hope that you will catch the conversation later and we hope to see you all there.
[00:03:21] So we are going to break our conversation with Adie into two parts because it's so good, he's so lovely. Adie is a senior fellow at Brookings Metro and leads the Metropolitan Infrastructure Initiative. So without further ado, here is Adie Tomer.
Beth [00:03:35] Adie, thank you for spending time with us again. OK, let's just talk about what is actually in this bill. You wrote a very helpful summary that identified three major areas: internet infrastructure, climate change, long distance travel. How would you have us orient ourselves around those three pillars?
Adie Tomer [00:03:52] So the the bill is huge, first of all. It does a ton of stuff in a ton of different categories. So in some ways, it's exhausting to even summarize this thing. And I dare anyone to read it and make it through more than a few hundred pages. If thatt, this is not the most dynamic prose you've ever read. Let me break it down like this. On broadband, which is really like our kind of like our digital cardiovascular system, right? Like, in a sense, like everything we want to do, whether it's autonomous vehicles or smart utility meters inside your house. So you, you say power ride or we're telling you, hey, you left that faucet on or your kid left that faucet on again. Right. It all requires broadband. We are making easily the largest broadband investment out of Washington, like to go to the rest of the country in our nation's history. This is basically the first big broadband investment. And, you know, depending on how you want to capture those numbers, because even bigger than that, it's at least sixty five billion. So that's one.
[00:04:55] Second is responding to climate change, both through mitigation and adaptation. Here's what I mean by that mitigation means Hey, let's let's burn less fossil fuels, right? That's clearly causing more greenhouse gases. So effectively reducing how much we're hurting the planet. Adaptation means that I say this as a Floridians like, hey, by the way, like the coast is like eroding and is flooding more. And we need to move right now while we try to solve the other problem upfront, too. So this bill does both and mitigates and it adapts, and it does it in a ton of different ways. You could easily call it over $100 billion and focused on climate change or resilience or sustainable, whatever words you want to use. I don't get political on this one, so just saving the planet, making a huge investment in that. And it's really important to say really quick the reconciliation budget they're still talking about that will do far more on climate.
Sarah [00:05:51] That's what we're going to see the like electric car infrastructure is in the reconciliation, right?
Adie Tomer [00:05:56] Even more of that.
Sarah [00:05:57] Beth and I may be own Teslas. We're very invested in this. OK.
Adie Tomer [00:05:59] Well, that's right. So there's a little bit here it's the appetizer for like the entrees coming in the requisition.
Sarah [00:06:06] OK, OK.
Adie Tomer [00:06:06] And then the final one. Beth, as you point out, IIJA is still or that's the acronym D.C-ers are using. It's primarily mean the biggest chunk of it. It's a transportation bill. So there is a ton of investment in high speed rail that's going to connect communities, let's say, even faster than they already are, like Portland, Oregon to Seattle, Washington, right? Or I know the DC Types, folks in the Northeast Corridor are going to be happy. Folks in the middle, the like Great Lakes kind of northern Midwest hopefully should be happy. They're going to see serious investments there. So there's $66 billion in passenger rail investment, public transportation, even though we got cuts that public transit advocates didn't want still gets $39 billion. Twenty-five billion in airports, 16 billion in ports and other kind of seaborne trade infrastructure.
[00:06:57] So I could go on. It's kind of boring. It makes these numbers almost like your eyes start to gloss over them, and it's easy to forget I see this myself when you look at these. Each one of those categories are transformational, either for the communities where they're built, for the people that benefit, right? Especially if you don't have broadband in your home and now you will. I mean, that can change a student or an adult's life. And for the whole country, especially on those climate-focused investments where there's real scale, I mean, we really could see look back on this moment as the time we kind of we kind of turn the ship and really built America for the 21st century, not continue to live in the 20th.
Sarah [00:07:37] Here's my question. When you look overall at those and I don't know if we need to talk about this per each of those categories, but like what what percentage is going to fixing things that are broken, which we've always heard a lot about with infrastructure? And what percentage is going to building new things? That's sort of my question.
Adie Tomer [00:07:55] It's such a good question, Sarah. So the answer is both. The answer is we won't know until the work's done.
Sarah [00:08:02] OK.
Adie Tomer [00:08:03] And then the third part of the answer is it depends on each one of those categories. Yeah. Let me give you two really quick examples. Number one, the biggest thing in the act is transportation. The biggest thing under transportation is roadways and highways. There has been a critique from us and the rest of the nerd mafia, right, for over a decade. Hey, stop widening your highways and start making sure we got no potholes on those highways. So what's said in more official terms is called a fix it first policy. This bill does not have it.
[00:08:40] So let's say like a Kentucky or an Oklahoma that's been notorious for continuing to widen their highways and ignoring maintenance, they're going to do it. California, Massachusetts and you can see the political alignment here a little bit at the state level, too. They're probably going to focus on maintenance. So what we're going to see is, yeah, probably a lot of maintenance done, but a lot of places won't do maintenance when they should. So that's one thing. In other sections of the bill, though, especially, let's say, like Western water and wildfire management, you could consider that a form of maintenance, right? We need to protect these communities out west. We need to protect actually the rest of the country because when those fires burn, we all inhale that smoke further east, right?
[00:09:20] So it is same thing for, hey, if we've got we've got a problem with, let's say, lead pipes. We need to replace those lead pipes. So a lot of the overall package has either purposeful or a a set, a program that leads you to maintenance anyways. But when it comes to building out new broadband networks, we're going to need to build new. So the thing is so big, you always can feel that already the answered almost every question is like, Well, it's a little bit of everything, right? Like, so big. It's a big bill. You know, we're not used to this kind of stuff.
Beth [00:09:51] When we hear Big Bill, we've got a percentage of our audience that is like, Yay! I want all the big bills, keep the big bills coming. And then we have people for whom these kinds of answers are really uncomfortable and the numbers themselves are really uncomfortable. First of all, with the numbers, how much of a compromise do these numbers feel like? And the second part of my question is what kinds of controls are in place to make sure that this doesn't become a wasteful field day?
Adie Tomer [00:10:21] Infrastructure spending is basically the best bang we get for our buck, not just in the United States, almost everywhere. And when I say that is, there's two things. I'm not getting in my own politics into this I hear you, Beth, completely like, for listeners out there, you can decide what you want to decide on this. The single best thing we do is income-related policy. Put money in people's pockets because you know what? Just like every one of us, whether we're high income too low, we know what to do with money. So when you give people money, good things happen. The next most impactful thing is building infrastructure. Here's why - infrastructure unlike putting cash in our pockets where we may invest in ourselves, but more than likely, let's say, especially for those who are most in need, you're going to go buy diapers for your kids or make sure you can afford daycare. Right? It helps the whole economy run, and we saw, like 18 months prior to now, what happens when you shut down those essential services. Whether that's an investment is up, it kind of depends on how you look at it.
[00:11:17] Infrastructure. There's no you don't need to tilt your head. It's an investment. And think about all the elements of infrastructure you're using, both right now as you listen or you used it this morning when you woke up. You didn't build those pipe water pipes in your house, you build the electric infrastructure, you probably didn't build the broadband that was born 10 years ago, so you might know someone who kind of did some of it in your neighborhood. The roads have been there, probably for over a century. They just get repaved every five to 10 years. So, my point of saying this is what's so cool about infrastructure is you build it now to help the generations down the road. So rather than folks who are, I get being uncomfortable with numbers and in public policy. And look, I'm not an objective person. I work in a space, but I say, Look, if you're worried about big government spending, look somewhere else. This is not the area to be concerned with. And I'm not alone in that. There are few areas you find where huge elements of national nonprofits focused on, let's say, social inclusion. Huge fans of this bill. The Chamber of Commerce is a huge fan of this bill.
Sarah [00:12:18] Yeah, it's so true.
Adie Tomer [00:12:19] Everyone likes this bill. The irony here is it pulls really well, but it's not a strong political act, meaning like no one's going to win or lose probably an election on this, and maybe we'll talk about that. But in general, people, I think, are going to be happy with this. Now, whether the numbers are a compromise, you know, I'm not so sure. I think they definitely are because it's a true bipartisan bill. Folks need to remember in case you, you follow politics closely. You know, this was really written in the Senate, not the House and in the Senate. You know, they got 19 Republican senators to vote for this in modern-day America like federal Washington that is as bipartisan as you can get.
Sarah [00:12:57] Including Mitch McConnell.
Adie Tomer [00:12:58] McConnell loves this bill! Mitch McConnell has to use the Brant Spence Bridge for folks who arre oin the area, you know, you know, Louisville would right or excuse me for Cincinnati, which covers both Ohio and Kentucky. I mean, this is this is a big deal bill, right? He wants to address the locks and the dams along the rivers through the state of Louisiana. This is going to make huge investments there. I think I think it shows that Mitch McConnell is an old guard center was like, we're talking politics about building infrastructure like this is an apolitical kind of sector. So I think what's in the bill is a compromise. I think the total is pretty, pretty close to where both political parties wanted it. And the Democrats always knew they'd have one more chance of this through the reconciliation budget, which, like I mentioned, that's where they're putting even more of their climate-focused investments. And so you can see the politics of America a little bit in this bill, where it's probably less climate-focused as it should be. I would honstly say that, but that's because ideally knock on wood in my own words, we're going to get a version of that here in the next anywhere from one to 12 months or so.
Sarah [00:14:04] Well, and Beth is so good at pointing out like we never had anything in the original version that was an idea, guys. Like that was not promised to us. That was just a news story. We didn't have that we have this. Like we should celebrate what we have, not what we promised and we thought we were going to get. And now we're mad we didn't. Like, I'm just thrilled that we got this.
Adie Tomer [00:14:25] Yeah. I don't want to break news on here in case we got kids listening. But when your parents decide what you get for Christmas, know, you know, whether they bundle it up like a paper airplane and fly it into the room and run away. Or they like straight up handed to you and make eye contact. That's the start of a negotiation. You don't get everything on your list.
Sarah [00:14:47] No.
Adie Tomer [00:14:48] And you know what? Us as parents, I got three kids like, you know we do. We buy probably more than we originally planned to. Right? Yeah, it's a negotiation.
Sarah [00:14:56] But less than they wanted. And everyone should be happy with that.
Adie Tomer [00:14:58] That's right. And you know what? We are all happy on that morning or I'm actually we're a split religious family. So same thing on Hanukkah, right? Like, you know. So the reason I bring this up. That's right. You're so right, Beth. The president put out a effectively what we call a budget during normal years, right? That whole Build Back Better agenga. That's like what he ran for office on. That's all I can say, Joe. It's like kids running for student council, promising things they don't even have a voice in, you know, like, it's just it's a Hey, I'd like to see this. You know, President Trump had a budget that looked one way President Obama right before him had a budget look very different. And Congress ends up doing things that actually are pretty consistent year to year.
[00:15:33] So that's right, we can't look back at that proposal is anything but someone gets close to the action. Well, President Biden didn't have a vote on this, right? So whatever budget he proposes, it doesn't really kind of matter outside of something for Congress to consider. I think once the reconciliation, you know, again, if it goes through and we stack these two bills together, I think what we're going to see is two things. Unquestionably. It is a whether you like it or not, a far more progressive agenda for the United States, which reflects the mandate of what the voters asked for in 2018 and 2020 at the polls. Now, I don't wanna be overly sensitive to the current political moment, but chances are we will have nuclear. Local voices in Washington after midterms and then who knows about 2024? So they got a chance, this is their voice. This is what they want to see. It's going to be enormous. No, it is not as big as they probably would have originally proposed, but that's that's normal politics in Washington.
Beth [00:16:28] I think that normal politics in Washington is a good framework for my next question because I have sensed in all the political reporting that Sarah and I read and that we are grateful for. I'm not trying to dump on media here, but this tone of, well, it took you long enough. We've just been waiting and waiting and waiting for this thing to pass. And it seems to me two things one that we just spent four years joking about it being Infrastructure Week because President Trump ran on a massive investment in American infrastructure that just never got done. And two, that when you're spending this much money, you're talking about generational investment. Everybody having some time to work through the details of that would seem to be a benefit to me. But I'm wondering how you have kind of taken in that analysis.
Adie Tomer [00:17:13] It feels fast to me. I don't know why...
Sarah [00:17:16] Right? He hasn't even been there a year. What the heck?!
Adie Tomer [00:17:18] That's right. We got different leaders. Many of the folks who were the lead bill writers or negotiators and a huge credit. I know folks don't see them, but those of us who work in Washington know them, you know, all of the staff that actually wrote this bill. I hate to also break news like senators and representatives do not write these actual bills, right? People work for them who work tirelessly and negotiate with parties on all sides to get this thing done. And we, to your point, Beth, we wrote something right before the Trump team dropped their infrastructure plan ain whatever that was twenty eighteen now maybe. And the headline was which we love was [00:17:54]An Infrastructure Bill is a Washington Fantasy.
[00:17:57] Three years later. Right? Like no time. We have an actual infrastructure bill, it is not a Washington fantasy. They delivered it. We have been waiting 20 years for this. So if anyone's going to complain about timing kind of say, Hey, where were you when we knew what the 21st century knew, what we knew about climate change in the early aughts when we knew about what was coming with broadband in the early aughts? Where were you? Federal Washington? But but to say, Hey, I wish we had this bill in April. But what does it matter? Like this bill is going to last for over five years of construction. So meaning actual construction in the communities where listeners live, right, including the three of us, right? So, I'm not. I'm not in any hurry. In fact, I'm actually worried now that the bill's done political pressures are going to make us try to go too fast. So we might build projects that someone drew up in the 20th century that no longer have the highest return on investment.
Sarah [00:18:54] Oh, that's interesting.
Adie Tomer [00:18:54] That aren't necessarily environmentally just. Right? Or don't reflect the need to build out certain broadband capacities, right? And all of a sudden, we're building the wrong stuff. So ironically, on infrastructure, you want to go slow because it lasts for so long.
Sarah [00:19:10] So how are you feeling about the news that he's appointed Mitch Landrieu, the former mayor of New Orleans, to sort of oversee this? So we have sort of a a czar of infrastructure spending to make sure because I mean, this is I love how you put this like this is just the end of the beginning. Now the work really starts. So what does this process look like? And is there any role for all of us to sort of keep responsibility where it belongs and not speeding up processes that won't have real impact in our communities?
Adie Tomer [00:19:40] I love Mitch Landrieu.
Sarah [00:19:42] I love to hear that.
Adie Tomer [00:19:44] It's such an inspired choice and Americans should feel really, really good about it. His record is fantastic for dealing with a level of catastrophe that those of us who most almost all of us are not actual leaders like that, but as residents, we cannot imagine.
Sarah [00:20:01] Yeah.
Adie Tomer [00:20:01] And the reporting is consistent. You'll find on this. Where folks are like, it wasn't going well before him and then he got there and the process just got efficient and projects started getting done on time and he was listening to people. You know, there's a reason the Landrieu family and Mitch in particular, are so respected down in Louisiana, kind of across the aisle.
Sarah [00:20:24] Which is not an easy environment, not an easy environment.
Adie Tomer [00:20:28] It's not. And they, you know, they come correct. Like, I don't know how else to put it. And so that's what we need in the United States with a bill this big, we need to be smart, both efficient but not rush. I think he is a great, great choice. What people can do in their communities on this is kind of twofold. Number one, you know, be patient. You know, it's it's always that feeling of, oh, like they're tearing up that road. I really I need to go pick up my kid. I might be five minutes late, you know? Yeah, I get stressed about that, too. But you know what you always feel once that works done? You're like this road is really smooth. This feels great all of a sudden, on my bike.
Sarah [00:21:07] You always feel it when you cross state lines too, you're like, Oh, somebody's taking a different approach to roads around here.
Adie Tomer [00:21:12] That's right. That's right. So A) be patient on your commute. There's give me a whole lot like proverbial like construction underway signs are going to be going up all over the place. Really about 12 months from now because it's going to take a whole lot of planning. But then once it starts, are going to really feel it. But at the same time, be be dogged and in fighting for your community too. This is real money to make real, lasting change. But there's still politics at play at the local level on deciding what to build.
Sarah [00:21:40] Yeah.
Adie Tomer [00:21:41] And I don't think I'm speaking out of school at all to effectively say, look, the closest interests to infrastructure projects are those who build them. And they would like to execute construction as fast as possible. Many times those people do not even live in a community where the construction's happy. I'm saying these are statewide or frankly national, that multinational firms they just want to build. Yeah. So it's up to the community to tell them, Hey, we want to build this, and if it's more complicated. Well, then let's take the time to figure it out.
[00:22:14] I'll give you an example, right? We constantly just want to repave roads and we need to do that. But what we're starting to learn are about urban heat island effects, where oftentimes communities that were, let's say, red lined, right? For for property ownership or other really nasty kind of public policy moves are often the places that have the least amount of tree cover. So kids and other people play outside get really dangerously hot. The properties get dangerously hot, so they require extra energy if not malfunction, right? Like their HVAC systems during warmer months, right?
[00:22:50] So we need to plant trees in those urban heat island affected neighborhoods. That's going to take some planning time if your community hasn't been planning to do it. This I'm looking at the chart of everything that this bill provides. It will let places do that. But if we're rushing to just repave everything and not think about the tree cover we need to plan in the years it's going to take to grow those trees. We're not doing it right. So that's the big thing. Both be patient and be dogged in defending what your community needs, and you'd be surprised. Voices can be heard. And if you don't have your voice heard, right? The retirees, who have nothing but time on their hands or to make sure their voice is heard and what they want is going to be asked for. It is important. This is a project for the future. So how do we make sure families and younger people are heard in this process for how we build a different kind of America going forward?
Beth [00:23:59] What kinds of investments do you think will follow this? I mean, that's one fantastic thing about infrastructure, right? It has all kinds of externalities. And when I just think about what you said about building, building seems really hard right now with supply chain issues, labor force issues. So so what do you see coming in an exciting way in the wake of this investment?
Adie Tomer [00:24:22] Wow, it's such a great way to frame that, Beth. The easy part of the answer is there, this is gonna be challenging to implement as policy folks say it, but basically to get the work done. Government itself has to hire a ton of people, both inside federal Washington, in state capitals wherever you live and then frankly, like down the proverbial street at your city hall or county, you know, county office, they need to hire more people just to manage it. Think of what it's like when all of a sudden, you know, ideally you've got you got too many bills going on there, like all spread across your, you know, your desk, you to figure out who to pay who and or it's tax season, right? Think like you just got to manage it. So just managing this much money is huge.
[00:24:59] Then we've got to hire a ton of skilled tradespeople. It's a huge opportunity for women, people of color to get really good paying jobs with low educational barriers to entry. But we got to get those people trained. We need contractors out there. We need plumbers and pipefitters and all these fascinating jobs, right? And then third, you're right, Beth, we got to find materials for all this. So we need we need to buy new equipment. And yeah, there's some materials don't have a shortage, but every advanced piece of equipment rolling off the assembly lines right now anywhere in the world includes computer chips and modems, just like other equipment that we all buy. So they're feeling the supply chain crunch on the kind of computing side like others. We've got to find enough input materials. We are going to need a ton of sand in America right now because that's essential for concrete. And so how are we going to get all that sand everywhere?
[00:25:48] So train lines like freight train lines and trucks are going to be booming and just moving stuff around. So there's a huge implementation lift. That's in some ways that the easier part of the answer. The harder part is. Is making sure communities have that kind of bigger vision for who they want to be and where they want to go. We're going to see a real competition between places, which is, by the way, exactly what America is designed for. Places that think about how to use this money, to look around the corner to say, Hey, we want to have really competitive, digitalized industries, right? Let's say we want to be a focus for autonomous testing of different ideas right here or see what we can do with new kinds of sensors or places that focus on just maintaining their infrastructure rather than expanding in ways they shouldn't. They're going to be the big winners here, but we're not going to know for years and years down the road because there's definitely going to be some wasteful projects. There's no way around it. One of y'all kind of asked earlier, too, about it. I didn't directly answer. There has to be waste with anything this big, just like with any private company, by the way, government is not bad at management, just a different. They sell a different kind of product, right?
Sarah [00:27:04] It's just all management is done by humans.
Beth [00:27:05] And we get more transparency and scrutiny of that government bad management than in the private sector.
Adie Tomer [00:27:10] Oh, that's right. You just vote with your. You just vote with your wallet, right? You just moved to a new company and I get it. You can feel kind of stuck if you're living in a state or a community that you don't like how their manged. So it causes it. Just like causes. Humans are very angry. I get it. Yeah, there's going to human error, you're totally right, Sarah. And we can't know where that's going to be. Even an impasse is not necessarily a precedent because we're always changing public sector leadership. Who knows how they respond to these opportunities. You know what? What kind of community maybe pull it for political reasons kind of question climate change out loud, but say all of a sudden, Hey, they're giving us huge grants here. You know, take Texas for an example, right? Massive impacts from that freeze last winter and right, we're about to enter that season again. Huge damage in Houston from Harvey because they built in and flood plains and marshes. They should never build housing in. How to communities like that actually respond now all of a sudden, when they get federal resources do so. That's the part at least our team is going to be watching really closely, and it's going to be one of the long tales of in terms of storytelling that's going to come out of all this.
Sarah [00:28:09] Well, I'm wondering, you know, when you came on for our infrastructure series, we talked about, you know, the infrastructure of employment, of expertize within these sectors, that they were aging sectors, those pipefitters, the people who perform these jobs, were lacking, right? And I'm wondering like if this is a generational investment in the actual infrastructure, what's going to be the impact on these actual employees? Like it feels to me like it is just it's it's almost, you know, unavoidable that as we invest in infrastructure in this way, that we will see growth in these job sectors because there's just going to be money and jobs, and so will this also be getting at this problem, not just aging roads, but aging pipefitters?
Adie Tomer [00:28:57] Yeah, I think the unquestionable answer is yes, it will lead to increases in employment. And as you increase your employment and just naturally with the aging cycle and changing demographics of America, you know there's going to be some more Benetton elements. So who works in this workforce, right? It's going to be just less white. There's going to be more women and it's going to be younger. And by the way, all three of those things are fantastic. It's exactly what the country needs. You know, I have my own, which I have no problem saying I that to my personal beliefs like not everyone needs to go to college, like it's just not, I've been there.
Sarah [00:29:32] And all that reporting on like the decreasing number of men that go to college because they see money to be made like, I just feel like this is a natural cohesion here. Between these two things, it's going to happen.
Adie Tomer [00:29:43] No doubt. And we've got this bill will last at least five years. It'll take some time to finish the spending in communities. The reconciliation budget, which includes a lot of capital spending, too, that will last likely about 10 years and many of those project categories. And then even once this project's done or this bill is done there, there's probably give me another one behind it, maybe not as big. So my point being, I actually think we're about to go into a big physical investment stage in American history. It's really been due for it. And folks will tend to like these projects once they're done. So they often will be asking for more and we can afford it.
[00:30:18] Well, if we're going to do more of this, we need people to get the projects done. And it just feels sometimes life just has some beautiful symmetry, right? And this feels like a beautifully symmetrical moment where exactly like you said Sarah, there are especially younger men who could really use these careers. Right? There are people of color that could really use these jobs. And in particular, maybe it's a change of careers where it offers formal benefits, right, in different ways than they're they're used to. We just can get more women into the skilled trades. There is nothing about skilled trades, work that prohibits women from doing it at the same rate. And these are some of these jobs are just fantastic in terms of pay. I'm eager to see how we adjust. But this is similar to your last question too, Beth. I mean, some places may not focus on that. They may just look at spending money quickly, not think about their processes. So we're all going to be watching Hey, who changes their workforce development systems and works with the broadly defined like education entities right to improve and widen that pipeline? Right? Who thinks about how on the job training is going to change? Thinking about the jobs of tomorrow because these jobs are digitalizing and we need people to have a better understanding of climate conditions, let's say, than we did for our parents' generation in the same job. So whoever innovates fastest, it's probably going to be to their benefit. And we hope that those kind of those best ideas. That's where one of America's secret sauce, right, is the competition of ideas helps you figure out what works and then because we have so many, there's so much more that ties us that separates us culturally, that it doesn't matter where you work like it or like where you live. If you hear some state or community down that far away is doing something better, you'll copy it. Because why not? Yeah. So I'm hopeful that we both find out what works quickly and then get scale to those ideas as fast as possible too.
Beth [00:32:08] So as we wrap up, I want to come back to the politics for a second because the framing of every headline that I read this morning about this infrastructure package was really popular legislation for a very unpopular president. And I'm wondering, as we gather, you know, as we gather around all kinds of tables in the next couple of months with friends and relatives and encounter just a true potpourri of media intake from those people in our lives. What would your talking points for the infrastructure layperson be going into those discussions about what's just been signed into law?
Sarah [00:32:50] I'm just going to add on to that because I just feel like let's bridge between governance and politics once in a generation opportunity to take that, to make that bridge between governance that is popular and politics that has stopped being about governance. Yeah, sorry. Just that's my soapbox.
Adie Tomer [00:33:09] Yeah, Can you make some room on that soapbox for me?
Sarah [00:33:12] Let me scooch over, just a little.
Adie Tomer [00:33:16] First of all, yeah, I mean, look, everyone clearly needs to come armed to their Thanksgiving table with some like change the subject lines away from vaccine mandates and the genesis of Thanksgiving as a holiday.
Sarah [00:33:29] I thought your infrastructure as bang for your buck when you said that, I was like, That's one of them. Mark it down, everybody. Put it underline an infrastructure is the best bang for our buck.
Adie Tomer [00:33:37] So my my colloquial advice everyone would be like spend like a few hours, maybe while you're watching football earlier in the day before you get to the like three glasses of wine or three like beers into the Thanksgiving portion when it really can go off the rails, and think about what are the physical parts of the neighborhoods, either where you live or your crazy uncle lives, like, Hey, how about getting rid of those potholes, huh? Something that you just can have in your back pocket to change the subject. That's my colloquial advice, and I will absolutely be using that with my crazy family.
[00:34:11] Look, far beyond me. I work on the policy side of the governance side, not the politics side. Although I love, I love watching politics, entertainment side of it. It is really hard at the national level to to have infrastructure drive any kind of political attitudes. We have seen this for generation after generation. And I'm not sure if this is going to be any different. So one of the things for folks to watch and obviously y'all's listeners are amazing and they clearly are are following politics closely among a whole different set of issue areas. This is the one to kind of keep your eyes on because it will be a slow burn if it's going to be successful. But proverbially do the Democrats figure out how to market this thing? And I mean, market like political marketing. And how can they leverage like ribbon cuttings because projects won't be done, so the are the proverbial less the ribbon cut, if that's the end of the project and stuff like Golden Shovel,
Sarah [00:35:06] the groundbreaking!
Adie Tomer [00:35:07] Yeah, groundbreaking. You know, how do they market that? What kind of what kind of signage they use, where it's actually under construction? And if you all remember those stimulus, the like circle with four icons at it and it didn't really work. I mean, in the marketing wise, like folks knew it was happening, but it didn't lead to political success for the Democrats after they passed the stimulus. So do Democrats learn the lessons of that, but also find a different intervention that can work all across the country? I think it's going to be a tough mountain for them to climb. And so what's the midterms feel awfully close to figure out the competence on this one. 2024 is going to be really the one to watch. Where how can they ideally show progress on these projects, hope that the economy is doing even better than it's doing right now because, by the way, the economy is not doing bad right now, but we've somehow gotten a narrative that it is. And try to use those as a combined springboard, if you're a Democrat, that is, to show success. Ironically, for the Republicans, they may be trying to stake claim to this this bill, too. Mm hmm. We saw this during ARP, in particular the American Rescue Plan. Right?
Sarah [00:36:18] Oh, my congressman, it's Christmas in July, he voted against it.
Adie Tomer [00:36:22] And look, you know, Americans, I don't blame them. Like, you don't need to follow what's going on. Washington. It's so far away. It doesn't feel like it touches your life. When it does, it doesn't feel like you have a voice in it because you kind of don't, right? It's so there's so many voices. However many multiple hundreds of millions of people can can vote. So it's it really does feel like a distant process. So how many Republicans are going to beat Democrats off at the pass, which would ge my advice to them, say, yeah, oh, these are federal projects. I built this. Mm-Hmm. Now watch as you all brought him up earlier because I'm a true political mastermind. Senator McConnell's already out in front of this. Good luck to any Democrats in Kentucky who want to claim credit for this. This is now Mitch's Bill. And you know what? The Brant Spence Bridge is working better, right? And roadways in and out Louisville or Lexington are working better. And Mitch should get credit for it. That's part of politics.
[00:37:10] Right. I'm not mad at them because honestly, I don't want it to be, you know, my question is not even how the Democrats take credit for that, although obviously as a Democrat, I'm motivated by that particular goal. It's how do we make sure people see this as positive government? How does the government get credit for this? Because part of our problem. Part of the fact that politics is driven by identity is because people don't trust the government. And so how do we use this once in a generation investment to build some trust in government? Government.
Adie Tomer [00:37:43] I say this in my professional capacity, but more so my personal life. The older I get, the more I'm really, really angry at President Reagan for one particular line, which you all I know is that there's nothing worse in America than someone knocking on your door, saying, I'm here from government or from government. I'm here to help. Yup, that's exactly what they're there for.
Sarah [00:38:07] Listen, we did a whole episode on Reagan. Don't even get me started.
Adie Tomer [00:38:09] Oh my gosh. And they didn't really mean it at the time. It was cute and it worked for them. And but what it did was started an idea of virus and I stress virus. You're not going viral like YouTube cat video Thing. I mean a virus That hurts us. Yeah. And suddenly trying to do good things for the country that are apolitical, right? Or depoliticize these actions that are shared becomes nearly impossible. And it's dangerous.
[00:38:44] Here's the silver, an optimist. So like, here's the silver lining, Gallup runs amazing polling consistently over time of confidence in different levels of government. And even back in 2004, confidence in both Congress and the presidency was so much higher than it is right now. I mean, it dropped from into positive range into deep negative range, right? And now it feels long enough for our conversation that's been kind of feeling like forever. It was not forever ago, right? Less than two decades ago. The confidence in local government is actually ticked up in that time. So there's some weird like beyond me, you know, as not a sociologist, it's certainly not like a politically oriented one. But there's something funky in the water, right where we have these national narratives that don't trust the other side. Zero-sum game-style competition. We're all if you're not winning, you're losing like Ricky Bobby stuff, right? And then yet locally, folks like, well, we got to work together. I need the roads to be paved.
Sarah [00:39:43] Yeah.
Adie Tomer [00:39:43] And I don't know where that dissonance started or how to how to unravel it. But infrastructure can help us get there. And I think you're right to maybe at least for myself to kind of try to end on a high note is. Let us use both this investment, the ARP funding, which has a ton of small business programing the reconciliation bill if it comes through again to really help the generations to come on climate. Let's use it to demonstrate competence in governance. Yeah, and in particular, competence in activities that no one else is going to do for you. No one else is going to pave that road. No one else is going to make sure you've got clean water, right? No one else is going to make sure we don't build in places we shouldn't be building right or get tree cover on a street that really needs it right. So it's a huge opportunity that's in front of us right now and if we play this well, hopefully, someone can also figure out the wedge issue on this that wedges us to a positive place and says, look, there's a lot more that connects us than separates us. I think the president is in office right now, partially won the election on that, and we'll see probably in about three years, whether it's him running again or someone else or again, whomever could be running on the Republican side, too, if that becomes part of the narrative. That right, we need government to succeed as a common people. And I hope we can get there. I have my doubts, but I think the opportunity is certainly there in front of us for someone to figure it out.
Beth [00:41:22] Thank you so much to Adie for spending time with us on truly one of his busiest professional days, as the entirety of the media wants to hear from him about this infrastructure bill. We are so grateful. I think this is one of the most fun days we've gotten to record a podcast because we so often are talking about what our country needs. And today we have an actual answer to what our country needs and some momentum going into the future. So it was really fun to get to celebrate this milestone with someone who has Adie's level of expertise and who is just such a fun person to talk to.
Sarah [00:41:56] And if you want more of that expertise, lots of Adie in our infrastructure series. When I talked to him, I was like, Oh, you're my new favorite, you coming back on the show and so I brought him back. He'll be back again, so don't go check him out on the infrastructure series as well.
Beth [00:42:09] Sarah, what is on your mind outside of politics?
Sarah [00:42:12] Roll tide. Oh, y'all going to be, some of y'all going to be so mad I just said that.
Beth [00:42:15] I got to say it back, right? Roll tide. That's how it goes. It's rude for me to not respond with my own Roll tide, I just learned.
Sarah [00:42:23] And listen, if you are not an Alabama fan and and there are lots of you, according to my DMs, don't turn off the show. Be cool. Be cool. They paid us to come. If another college wants to pay us to come and talk to their student government about how to have difficult conversations, we will come. We will partake in your traditions and customs proudly and talk about it on the show too. But they just happen to be the ones this week, and they were lovely.
Beth [00:42:51] I mean, it's always a When in Rome situation when we go to colleges because it is an honor to be invited into the sociological experiment that is any college or university. So you just enter your own world. There is a language. There is a vibe. There are customs. Everything has layers of significance. And it's so fun. One of the professors that we had dinner with said, you know what's the best thing about coming to a college town? And I said, it's just that. It's like going into another planet and you get to be a visitor and observe it all. And it's it's just a blast to learn from everyone. I have to say about that same professor that she teaches public speaking, which I fortunately did not hear before we gave our talk. But she told me that we gave a masterclass in public speaking and that she had a whole list of reasons why, and that's my precise love language. So thank you, Angela. Professor Angela, for making my day.
Sarah [00:43:44] Well, and look, you know, the University of Alabama as our beloved guide Angel described, it is like a cruise liner, right? Like it is definitely its own planet, its own universe. It is a massive university with a very long history and distinctive culture. We learned a lot about the student government. Y'all, this student government is like nothing I've ever seen. They have a Supreme Court. The president has a nicer office than I've ever had in my life, like it is in-tense and then you layer on what they call the machine, which is the sorority and fraternity culture at University of Alabama. Then you go to a football game with the marching band, the Million Dollar Band, and you have also my personal obsession, the Crimsonettes, which is their baton team. I really want to join, but apparently you have to start going to school and you're like three, I think I might have missed the boat. I don't know. I'm going to. I'm going to dream the impossible dream. Like, there's just a lot there y'all. There's a lot there and I love it. I love a scene. I love a layered culture. I love all of it.
Beth [00:44:43] I think this game was such a reminder. Being able to actually go to an Alabama football game and go to the elephant stomp beforehand, where the Million Dollar Man band kind of has a pep rally for everybody. Like, it just reminded me that sports, while they can bring out our worst, also serve such a useful purpose in meeting psychological needs that we just don't have a lot of places to meet. Adults just need a place to yell. We do. We need a place to yell that is not at our children or in an angry way, and it is so nice to have a place to yell at games. We need to identify with people. We need those little expressions like Roll Tide. It's fun to be on the beach in the summer wearing my Reds hat and have somebody come up and say, like, Go Reds or Joey's looking great or whatever, right? It's fun to be out in a UK sweatshirt in Kentucky on the weekend, and here go big blue. Like, let's go cats like those pieces of community that require very little explanation are just like shorthand to remind us that we're in something together, and I think we need that.
Sarah [00:45:45] Listen, y'all need to move through the world like me, which is like. Completely disconnected from the outcome of anything but enjoying the culture. I don't care about sports. I would have felt no different had the New Mexico state team beat Alabama, I would have still had a blast. They did not, for the record, by like 50 points. But you know, I don't. I like sports culture. I care not at all who wins or loses, which you know, now it's the only experience I've had, but I highly recommend it. You know, I had such a good time at the football game. I had amazing barbecue. I loved seeing what everybody was wearing at the elephant stop. We stood in front of a very proud mother of a tuba player. I believe it's the instrument he was playing. So it's just I just love it. I do. I love that connective tissue. You know, I particularly love it because the stakes are nonexistent for me personally. And I think it is, you know, it was fun to say roll tide about literally everything can't get through a parking barrier. Roll tide mill was great. Roll tide. Your sad roll tide doesn't matter. I love it. I think that's great. I think we need more phrases like that. And, you know, the pride that they feel in their community, I think is really lovely. The students were having a great time. Some were having an enhanced time, but that, listen, that's going to happen to every football game. And so it just we I couldn't I could not say nice things about our guide Angel and the Student Government Association and which the game was so fun. Even my husband, I can't believe on until this on the internet. He got me so mad at me. He resisted because he is a University of Georgia fan and the stakes are not nonexistent for him. But he did say roll tide a single time. One time it was all we got out of it a single time, but it was fun.
Beth [00:47:24] Well, I was breaking it down with Chad when I got home. I so badly wanted Chad to go on this trip with me and we couldn't work the childcare out. So we got home. I said, Let me talk about roll tide as Alabama's version of Cheers, which I love because it just applies to everything. And he said it's just such a good verb. It's just a better verb than go, yeah, like you just is just such an exceptionally useful and kind of like remarkably zen when you think about the context verb things to just roll one way or another. But I agree with you, my experience with sports is I like for the stakes to be just high enough to really be part of the community. Like, I like being a little sad when we lose, but not so high that I ever am bringing a level of stress into my life about sports.
Sarah [00:48:14] Well, listen, I'm always sad for whoever loses because I like I like both teams equally. You know, I'm saying, like, I'm I like, Oh, I feel bad for the . Nicholas kept going. I just want both teams to have fun today. Both teams have fun today. That's where I am perpetually, no matter who's playing.
Beth [00:48:28] Yeah. And it is fun to see how people interact around sports. When we were posting pictures from being there, we did get some like interesting DMs, and I always interpret those kinds of comments through the lens of like good, healthy fun because I don't have strong feelings about sports, but I'm pretty sure that they are not all intended that way. And that is OK.
Sarah [00:48:49] Hey, I told everybody, you want to pay us to come to Auburn or Clemson or wherever and speak to your student government and come enjoy your games. I will learn your phrases and your customs and your traditions and happily participate.
Beth [00:49:01] 100 percent Well, thank you again, especially to Angel, who is the best of humanity and who has a great phrase for all you parents of young adults out there. As Sarah mentioned, for people who are having an enhancement to their good time at the game, he says, please do not add to or subtract from the population today.
Sarah [00:49:21] Yes, I'm going to. I'm going to do that every time my boys are leaving the house, please do not add or subtract from the population, love you, have a good time. Have the best day available to you. Please do not. We need to put those two together. Have the best available to you. Please do not add or subtract from the population. So thank you to the University of Alabama. Thank you to Angel. Thank you to the Student Government Association. Of course. Thank you for listening to us today, especially if you're not a University of Alabama fan. Godspeed. We're always so grateful to have you join us, and we would be grateful for you to join us on Thursday night for our first annual holiday huddle. Tickets are available through the link in our show notes, and they will give you access for up to seven days after the event, as we said at the top of the show. If you have purchased it before, so don't delay, don't delay Thursday's the day. And we'll be back in your ears on Friday. And until then, keep it nuanced, y'all.
Beth [00:50:12] Pantsuit Politics is produced by Studio D Podcast Production.
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Executive Producers (Read their own names) [00:50:29] Martha Bronitsky, Linda Daniel, Ali Edwards, Janice Elliot, Sarah Greenup, Julie Haller, Helen Handley, Tiffany Hassler, Emily Holladay, Katie Johnson, Katina Zuganelis Kasling, Barry Kaufman, Molly Kohrs.
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Beth [00:51:08] Melinda Johnston, Ashley Thompson, Michelle Wood, Joshua Allen, Morgan McHugh, Nichole Berklas, Paula Bremer, and Tim Miller.
[00:51:17] Sorry, that I like rang the bell of my lamp and my drink there at the end. It's a little distracting.