Ask Us Anything

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When we asked for your AUA questions, you delivered! We received well over 100 questions from you all. We can’t answer them all in one episode, but we’re answering as many as we can. We’ll answer more on Patreon and on Instragram, so make sure you are with us in those spaces.

For today’s show, though, we’re answer questions about our families, our beauty routines, food, jobs, dreams, travel, and the Free Brittany movement. It’s quite the range.

Thank you for being a part of our community! We couldn't do what we do without you. To become a tangible supporter of the show, please visit our Patreon page, purchase a copy of our book, I Think You're Wrong (But I'm Listening), or share the word about our work in your own circles. Follow us on Instagram, Twitter, and Facebook for daily news briefs, GIF news threads, and our real time reactions to breaking news. To purchase Pantsuit Politics merchandise, check out our TeePublic store and our branded tumblers available in partnership with Stealth Steel Designs. To read along with us, join our Extra Credit Book Club subscription.

Episode Resources

Transcript:

Sarah: [00:00:00] Honestly, I think so many members of our audience saw the trajectory of this podcast clearly way before we did, really got what we were doing here and the appeal and I mean, really should have just been like our pitchman and the elevators. 

Beth: [00:00:14] Well, I, 1000% did not believe people were going to give us money for something that they could listen to for free, like just did not believe that people would show up and support our work in that way and that's been one of the greatest surprises of my life, honestly, and has really changed my perspective on humanity, not to overstate it.

Sarah: [00:00:35] This is Sarah 

Beth: [00:00:36] and Beth. 

Sarah: [00:00:36] You're listening to Pantsuit Politics. 

Beth: [00:00:38] The home of grace-filled political conversations.

Hello everyone. Thank you [00:01:00] for joining us for this episode of Pantsuit Politics as we near, thank goodness, the end of 2020. We decided to bring a little levity to the podcast today. Sarah, please share your idea, which has made me a little bit uncomfortable, but I have agreed to participate in.

Sarah: [00:01:12] Ha ha! Ask Us Anythings. Everybody loves an Ask Us Anything and we've never done one on the show before, even though we get all kinds of questions via social media or at live events. And I thought this was the perfect opportunity to lighten everybody's load a little bit by finally sharing incredibly important and valuable information, like how we picked our kids' names and what our skincare routines are. So I just thought it was time. 

Beth: [00:01:41] Okay. We have more of these questions from y'all than we can answer in one episode. We have tried to group them into categories. Sarah's worked very hard, tightening this up. We're also going to answer some questions on Patreon and we're going to hold on, you might see some of these answered on Instagram here, and they are so stay tuned if you don't hear your question today. [00:02:00] We still value it. We will get to it. We promise. 

Sarah: [00:02:02] So first up let's talk origin stories. Beth, many, many of the people want to know how we met our husbands. 

Beth: [00:02:08] I met my husband at a bar called Trump's. I cannot change that fact now. Uh, it was a lovely sports bar in Lexington, Kentucky. We were watching a Kentucky basketball game. He was friends with the husband of one of my law school, classmates, my dearest law school, classmates, Sarah, who took me through just incredibly difficult times those three years. And is a judge now I'm so proud of her, but our husbands worked together. 

And so we all ended up together watching a basketball game and I'll tell you there in Trump's  sports bar, the first night I met Chad Silvers, I knew that he was just going to have a piece of my heart for a long time. He was so smart and so funny, and it just felt good to be around him, in a way that I really hadn't experienced before. And so we kept kind of hanging out in groups for awhile and I think there was some [00:03:00] purposefulness in that, on both of our parts and our friends too, but I was getting ready to move for the summer to Cincinnati to do my second summer law clerk work.

And it was really bummed that like, I hadn't got to spend any more time with him before I left. And we really hadn't been on a date or said anything to each other about how this was going. So I came up to Cincinnati. I moved into an extended stay hotel for the summer, extraordinarily glamorous and a retired partner came into my office my first week at my job and invited me to go to a Reds game with him and his wife and told me I had to bring a date. 

And I did not have a date to bring, but I was already terrified about being at the firm about doing social outings with partners. And so I thought, what the heck? And I called up Chad and said, would you like to go to this baseball game with me? Chad had a wedding to go to that day, but told me that he would like to, and he would get back to me, which made me increasingly [00:04:00] anxious, but he ended up skipping the reception driving from Lexington to Cincinnati to go to this Red's game with me.

And that was our first date and we were basically inseparable after that. He made lots of trips to Cincinnati that summer. I made lots of drives back to Lexington. It was pretty awesome and a whirlwind for sure. And I'm really lucky that I met him at the time of life that I did, because I think knowing Chad through the process of deciding to take a job at a law firm and then, and then getting that job and handling it just gave me a lot of confidence that I needed at a pretty scary and weird time of life.

So it worked out and now we sit in the same seats as our first date whenever we go to a Red's game. That same retired partner reached out when someone dropped out of the season tickets group that he was part of, so we bought into that group and now we always go take our kids to sit in our first date seats.

Sarah: [00:04:55] So sweet. I have now been with Nicholas Holland since I was 19 [00:05:00] years old. I officially have passed the milestone where I have been with him longer than I lived a life without him, which was pretty cool. Um, we met at Transy. Transy has given me my beloved business partner, my best friend, many best friends and my husband.

So it was a very formative experience in my life. I knew Nicholas my freshman year, but we were both dating other people and I kind of knew him to be snarky and very, very smart. You know, he's gonna love that I'm sharing this. His nickname was Nick, the Prick among our sorority sisters. Um, the very first thing he ever said to me was I hate people who have pseudo intellectual conversations.

Um, I was having a religious conversation with a fraternity brother of his at the time. So that's charming. And so we, I like sort of knew him in the periphery and then my sophomore year, his senior year. We both broke up with those people. And I don't think anybody would have anticipated that [00:06:00] bubbly, super positive, I like to think charismatic Sarah Stewart, uh, would date Nicholas Holland.

 Actually, there's a really funny story between his fraternity brother and one of my sorority sisters where she was like, she will never go out with him. And his friend, Tim was like, Nicholas has got game, you're underestimating him. We actually started communicating because I was trying to start an Amnesty International club at Transy, that should not surprise anybody who listens to our podcast.

And he emailed me because I'm misspelled amnesty. This should also not surprise anybody who reads my Instagram posts occasionally. And he was like, it was true. He was trying to flirt with me like, you're trying to start this club and you can't even spell it. And I was like, how dare you. I'm out here trying to make the world a better place. And you are criticizing me. 

This is a preview of many of the fights that we have had over the course of our relationship, but we would like email each other. And Beth, you know, Transy is a tiny place. You see people all the time, but we would literally, like, I remember seeing him across the cafeteria and then like running up to email him.

Like I couldn't have just spoken in the big [00:07:00] room, but kind of did some email flirting and then we started dating over bid day and were really inseparable. And I remember feeling pretty scared. Like  I remember feeling like, Oh, this is it. This is the guy that I'm supposed to marry. He was so smart. And I just remember thinking, like, I will always care what he thinks about something.

I will always want to hear what he thinks about things I'm going through or things happening in the world. Like, I just, I love the way that his brain and still do love the way that his brain works, but. And I thought, Oh man, I didn't want to get an Mrs degree. Like, I didn't want to meet my husband this day.

And like I'd had no plans for that. And I really only started to date after my high school boyfriend. And I, I remember having this very profound sense of like, Oh, like I'm, it's not, I wouldn't say trapped, but like overwhelmed by the enormity of what I felt like was happening. But I'm really glad that I didn't run away and that I stayed, you know, here, I'm going to get a [00:08:00] little teary, which also should not surprise us in our other shows.

I mean, I, I truly believe that meeting Nicholas when I did and marrying Nicholas has, has had the most enormous impact on my life, of almost anything else. I mean, I think meeting somebody at 19 who, especially being the person I am and the type of woman I am, that has never, ever once asked me to be anything but, but who I am. Never asked me to be quiet, never asked me to tone it down. We've had fights, but never about that. And I am so incredibly grateful that I met him when I did and that we got married and we have this beautiful life. So we're, we're both very, very lucky. And I mean, me and you, Beth, not just me, Nicholas.

Beth: [00:08:42] Yes. Chad and I are very lucky to, and I'm so glad. All right. People want to know how we chose our children's names. 

Sarah: [00:08:49] I'm not sure if people know your kids' middle names, you need to start there. Cause that's really fun.

Beth: [00:08:53] Okay. So my daughter's names are Jane Pepper and Ellen Charleston. I wanted them to both have [00:09:00] names that they could carry their whole lives no matter what. But I also wanted their names to feel kind of down to earth and grounded and a little bit fun. So I had a lot of competing desires and when I was pregnant with Jane, I made this list on a post-it note and I went through it several times and said each name, like thinking if she were the president, what if she were an aroma therapist?

What if she were a teacher, what if she were a famous poet? And I just kept trying to think, like, what name can I, can I picture her with this name as a teenager? What about as a grandmother? You know, just every stage of life, how's this gonna work? And so I settled on this little list of names. I took it to Chad and said that he can subtract, but not add.

And so we settled on Jane and we had Jane very early and knew that that was going to be her name, but the middle name we were struggling with. And I remember that I was already past my due date because Jane Silvers came to us [00:10:00] 14 days after the expected due date offered by my OB. And so I was already past that due date and I was pretty miserable.

It was difficult to put shoes on and Chad and I were in the car listening to the radio and some, it was like a call in show and somebody called in named Piper. And we really liked the name Piper, but I think we were at a birthday party, um, after that, and there was a Piper there whose mom kept yelling at her and we were neither impressed with the mom nor the Piper.

And so that evolved to Pepper and I think Chad just didn't have any energy to argue with me about it because we were just both so drained and it was kind of like, look, do you see what I'm going through? I'm going to pick this middle name. And so Jane Pepper it was, my family thought it was so bizarre but my friends loved it and I'll tell you, I, it suits her so well. 

It's just, it's the perfect combination of words to describe Jane. So that's Jane and then we kind of wanted to have the same feel with Ellen, like a very [00:11:00] classic, first name and a middle name where the party could be. And we love Charleston, South Carolina, and it just kind of hit us pretty early on that, that Ellen Charleston was a lovely name.

Chad said, I loved him so much when he said this, you know, those moments where you love your spouse a little extra, he said, you know, she ever became a writer, she could be like E Charleston. Silver's, what a cool name is that? So, right. That is a cool name. So we just got excited about it. It went a little dark for us because when I came out of delivery with Ellen and finally picked up my phone again, uh, Charleston was trending on Twitter and I thought, what is going on?

I just named this child Ellen Charleston. And it was the day of the church shooting in Charleston that she was born. And so I, I think about that a lot in connection with her birth and Ellen is kind of a interesting mixture of experiences. I think she has a pretty old soul. And so that [00:12:00] feels right somehow to me too.

Sarah: [00:12:03] If you are not a regular listener of the Nuanced Life, you might not have heard this story. But I had a pretty interesting experience with my first pregnancy in that I received two ultrasounds where they told me that the baby was a girl. Now, you all know, I do not any girls. I have four boys. And so I actually went on a babymoon to Mexico, got really sick, went to the hospital, had an ultrasound. And the ultrasound in Mexico told me that it's a boy. 

And I was like, no, it's a girl. And she was like, Hmm, it's a boy. And I'm like, Oh, okay. It was very traumatic. I suffered with gender disappointment for a long time. I'm not, I'm just going to be honest about that.

So. You know, I had a name picked out for a little girl. I was going to name her Clara, got back and was like, okay, well, I guess I'm going to need another name. And I was reading Apartment Therapy, the blog at the time and they would regularly profile babies and names. And I remember seeing Griffin and just, [00:13:00] it clicked.

And I was like, that's it? It's Griffin. So here's an interesting side note. I named my children. I feel very profoundly that I carry them. And Nicholas picked their last name. So I get to pick their first name. I don't, Nicholas Holland is a beautiful, smart, emotionally intelligent person, but I do not depend on him for aesthetics.

That's not why I married him. It's not like he has great style. So I name our children. And so I said it was Griffin and he was like, okay. And then we did Stewart for my maiden name. I actually wish I had just named all my boys, Stuart Holland, but that's where Griffin came from. I just saw it and I was like, that's it.

Then with Amos, I wanted something a little older. And so I used to read this baby name blog called You Can't Name It, It. I think that was the name of it. And she would, she was such a good blog and she kind of shut down. It was a shame, but she typed up this like gentlemen, Southern gentleman's mem country club, like civic club, like she typed up one of the registers in one of the entries. [00:14:00] And we were looking through it and I said, Oh, Amos. And Nicholas said, can't you just see baby Amos toddling in after Griffin, I was like, that's it, we're done. That's it. That's the name? That's my peak name. That's my favorite of the three is Amos's name. And his middle name is Edward after. Um, literally like half the men in my family.

My Father's middle name is Edward. My stepfather's middle name is Edward. My grandfather, my great-grandfather my brother, like it's it's long. So he's Amos, Edward, and then Felix, I lost a pregnancy before I had Felix. And so when we found out he was a boy, cause I was actually not going to find out the gender of the third pregnancy, but when I lost the pregnancy, I kind of wanted to separate myself from that experience.

So we found out that Felix was a boy and I was looking at names and I think I was really drawn to Felix because of the, uh, Felix, Felis Stoss from Harry Potter in the sense of like love and good fortune, because he felt like such a gift after the last pregnancy. So his [00:15:00] name is Felix and. I don't think Nicholas liked it.

And I said, I don't really care. It makes me sound like a jerk, but I'm just sorry. I feel very strongly about this. And then, uh, Robert is after Nicholas's grandfather that had passed away, I think either right before Felix. Yeah. Must have been right before, right after I remember, but it's after his father or his grandfather and father.

Um, so. That's the, that's the naming here at the Holland house out. I'll tell you one of my favorite names is his brother. They live this, his, um, family has lived on Ridley circle their entire lives. And so his little girl, his middle name is Ridley. I love middle names like that. I think that's so fun, but I do I follow your pattern because my mother told me my whole life, like you should name the baby, what you want it to be called. Like that was like drilled into my head. So I always, I did more fun first names and traditional family middle names, but I totally get your, your vibe there. 

Beth: [00:15:56] I grew up with that drilled into my head that you named the baby what you wanted it to be [00:16:00] called. And that is why my name is just Beth. I had a high school guidance counselor argue with me about putting Elizabeth on my diploma because she thought I should use my formal name for my diploma.

And I said, my name is not Elizabeth. And I mean, we went around and around the fact that okay, My, I, I just have these four letters. That's all my parents gave me, it's just Beth. And, um, for people who don't know me, here's another little thing. A lot of my family calls me by my first and middle name. So I grew up a Beth Anne. 

Sarah: [00:16:28] That's how I met you at Transy

Met in my life. You know, I have Beth's and Beth Annes. So it's, uh, it's funny. My husband laughs because my family tends to run it together like it's one word. Uh, so he loves to tease me and call me Bethann, all one word. 

The next step. We have a question for Beth from Liz. 

Liz: [00:16:49] My question is directed primarily at Beth and it's related to some personal news. I, um, I'm going to do yoga teacher training in 2021. [00:17:00] I've been casually considering the step for a while now, but my life is aligning at this moment in a way that I'm going to honor. My years as a mom with kids at home are almost over. My nest is emptying out and 2020 has functionally idled my two part-time jobs and most of my volunteer commitments. I have loved being a mom to my two kids.

Raising a family was the deepest desire of my heart and I am grieving the end of these two beautiful decades that my husband and I have had kids at home. But I'm also welcoming the next phase of my life as a grown ass woman with more free time and fewer responsibilities to others. If I'm totally honest, I'm not even sure I want to be a yoga instructor in the next phase of my life. But yoga right now is what my body and brain are craving. It's like I'm a house [00:18:00] plant growing towards the light and yoga is the light. So I'm just listening to that and pursuing it to where it takes me.

 But I do have a tendency sometimes to overthink decisions and talk myself out of wanting what I want. And I sometimes spend too much time worrying about how my decisions affect other people, but friends, I am one year away from turning 50 and that is not working for me anymore. I don't have a fully formed plan in mind, and I don't have an end goal to this decision. I'm simply saying yes to more in my life.

So my first question, Beth is, can you tell us about your decision to pursue yoga teacher training? I'm curious about what brought you to that decision and I'd love if you could share any insight that you might have for someone like me getting ready to start the process, I would welcome any advice from the very practical to the very woo woo.

And so in that practical advice category, can we take a [00:19:00] moment and talk about yoga and boobs? So I have big middle-aged breasts and you guys, they are in my face a lot during yoga. A wise friend once recommended that I just observe and welcome a face full of gorgeous flesh and I am here for that, but also I need a really good sports bra that keeps the girls out of my face in forward fold. So I'm wondering if you have any recommendations for that.

 I want to thank you for bringing so much light. Into a very dark year for me and for all of the community. I want to wish you a very Merry Christmas and I want to wish you and everybody in the Pantsuit Politics community a much, much better new year. Namaste.

Beth: [00:19:49] I love this message from Liz so much. Okay. I started practicing yoga at the time that I was considering getting [00:20:00] pregnant and I didn't consider getting pregnant for very long. I had a thought, perhaps we'll have a baby. And then I was pregnant pretty much. So I, as many of, you know, have fibromyalgia. And at that time in my life, I was taking pain medication constantly to try to deal with the symptoms of it.

And I had to come off that medication as we started to consider and, and get into pregnancy. So I was looking for all kinds of things that would be helpful. And yoga was one of them. So I started practicing and I loved it. I felt like it was the exercise I'd been waiting my whole life for. I also could tell early on that there were just going to be some issues for me in practicing and that I wanted to know as much as possible so that I could practice safely and continue to practice in a deeper way, but in a way that I kind of understood where my body was.

So that's why I signed up for teacher training. When I had Jane, during my time at home with her, I found [00:21:00] Curvy Yoga, which is a yoga school and website and program designed by Anna Guest Jelley and Curvy Yoga started with just the notion that not everybody who practices yoga is, is a thin person, right? With a body that does everything that Instagram yoga portrays. And so she has all kinds of recommendations for doing yoga and a larger body, which also attracted me. But as I started following her work, I realized this is much more than just about yoga at any size. This is also about understanding that sometimes our knees hurt. Sometimes our wrists don't handle us well in downward facing dog.

And that yoga is a lifelong practice that needs adjustment over time. So I very enthusiastically signed up to do teacher training with her. I did it in Nashville, Tennessee. See, I made four trips to Nashville made really good friends um, in that process, it was just, it was lots of fun. It was a great thing to have as a new mom and as someone who did not love her job.

[00:22:00] I did not have as, as a goal actually teaching yoga, I just wanted to learn more. But as we were there, I found that it was pretty fun to do the practice sessions, where we were actually teaching yoga. And I was really struck by all of the stories from people there and from Anna about how impactful it is to have a teacher look like you in a studio. And I thought, gosh, you know, my studio does not have a teacher who looks like me. And could that invite other people into this practice that I think is pretty powerful. So I went to the studio, I said, here's what I'm doing. Here's what I'd like to offer.

 And I've been teaching there once a week ever since. There were times when I had more than one class. One class is plenty for me and sometimes still too much, but I do love it. I love the people who practice. I love the studio. I love the studio owner and practicing yoga is still important to me. Okay. So Liz is asking about boobs. I have em too.

Curvy [00:23:00] Yoga has lots of great thoughts about this. And Anna has a program, she's just like such a dear friend to me now, she has a program where she, if you've already done your teacher training, you can like add onto it and get enrichment for it. And I would highly recommend that. There are also lots of schools of thought about like using straps to move your boobs for certain poses.

Here's where I am. I don't do any of that. I just get a good sports bra like Liz said. I really like the sports bra that Duluth Trading Company makes. I also like the North Face's sports bras, but more than that, I have just found the poses that I like and the style of practice that I like. And I've realized that my whole body can come to that style of practice with me.

That's taken me a long time, but I do take the face full, the forward fold, and I have really [00:24:00] learned to better enjoy and appreciate my body through the practice. And I've just decided that that's part of the practice. That I, I'm not going to put a strap around my chest anymore to try to get deeper in a position. I just, I feel like that's not what I do this for, so I worry less and less about it all the time and just kind of enjoy what is more as I get into it. 

Sarah: [00:24:23] Well, I got a question from Anya. As a redhead, I have to admit that one of the things that initially drew me to you two is that you are redheads. Now, but if you are not a natural red head, you want to clarify that really fast.

Beth: [00:24:33] That's right. I dyed my hair for a long time because I have this giant curly hair, hard to have a lot of differences in your hairstyle when you have curly hair. So I've colored my hair, all kinds of things. And when we started the podcast, it was close to red. 

Sarah: [00:24:50] I am a natural red head it and she asks, is that a big part of your identity?

Yes, it is a huge part of my identity. My old blog was called Bluegrass Red Head. Um, [00:25:00] so I mean, I had like it, my hair has faded over time, but it was like bright red as you know, a baby on, and my mom was red headed. My aunt was redheaded. My two cousins are red headed and it is a huge part of my identity. I love the commercial a few years back where Julian Moore said, it's not fun as a kid, but it's great as an adult, I think that totally captures it.

 And I think it's a huge part of my identity because there's no blending in when you have red hair and glasses as a kid. And even as an adult, like there just, wasn't a way for me to sort of fade into the background. And so I really, I think it's a huge part of my confidence.

I think I, you know, I didn't have a chance to sort of blend in and so I just embraced, standing out. And I love having red hair. I loved all the money I have saved over time. I mean, to dye my hair and I, but I will say that my hair is starting to go gray. I have no plans to dye it, but I think it will be hard for me to leave that part of my identity behind. 

My mom went gray, um, probably three or four years ago. And just [00:26:00] really well, let me say that she stopped dying her hair. She'd been gray for a long time. Both of my parents have white hair. And so I think that part will be hard for me because it is such a huge part of my identity, you know, I love all the, all the parts of being a redhead. I do in fact, have a temper. I'm very extroverted.

I love the whole scene. And she also asked me, would you care to comment on Jamie B Golden's recent statements about redheads having no souls? Um, I would. Thank you for giving me a chance to address this. Here's the ridiculous thing. Like it's not even a bit for her. I talked to her when it's just me and her and she still insists that ginger's have no souls.

I'm so excited to go to, hopefully in, in, a world where the vaccine and everything rolls out on time, maybe go to Ireland or Scotland this year and just like, be able to like live my best ginger life. And she is just like appalled at the mirror idea. But the, you know, as you probably know, her best friend is [00:27:00] redheaded.

Um, it's not real animosity. It's just a, it's a very, it's a very strong, personal philosophy of hers. And, you know, I want people to and love and embrace me and all my quirks. And so I love and embrace Jamie B. Golden and all her quirks, including the belief that Ginger's have no souls. 

Beth: [00:27:15] So we are asking a question about the podcasts origin and Sarah, you are the official origin storyteller. We have added a question here. What, if anything, would we do different knowing it now?

Sarah: [00:27:26] No, I think that's so fun. Okay. Uh, so I had this blog, bluegrass redhead, and. I would literally just post like stroller reviews and then my thoughts on the Syrian civil war. I gave no cares. And so I had really started to lean more into the political posts and Beth and I had stayed connected through Facebook and we had reconnected a little bit over natural birth.\ When we were both having our kids and she asked me my experience and I shared, and I was rooting her on. I mean, I feel like even though we were not super close friends, I do feel like I felt [00:28:00] all 14 days of Jane being past her due date. Very vividly. Remember that. 

And so we had talked about that and she's like, would you ever want a guest post from like, sort of the opposing side of the aisle on your blog? And I said, absolutely. And so she wrote a couple of, she wrote one in particular called Nuance that everybody loved, that was just like, Hey, everything doesn't have to be so two dimensional and simplistic.

And when I post about Cecil, the Lion, which is what we were fighting about at the time, because we were adorable on the internet, um, it doesn't, you don't have to assume all these things about me. And my husband had been on me to start a podcast. You have to start podcasts, you have to start podcasts. That's where things are going. That's going to be the next thing. And to his eternal credit, he was right. And so, so I said, okay, well, I had done an interview. Thank you, maybe I'd interview my friends who were women who worked in politics, which is sort of where the name Pantsuit Politics came from from, and, but it just sat there and I never did anything with it. 

Cause I like to answer questions, not ask them, um, at least not in an interview style format. And so I reached [00:29:00] out to Beth and I said, would you like to start a podcast with me? 

Beth: [00:29:03] And I said, I don't know what a podcast is. I didn't 

Sarah: [00:29:08] It's fine. I was like, we will, listen that part we can figure out. It's not a big deal. And so we had a test call. We just like talked on the phone. I'll never forget driving around in my van with Felix asleep in the backseat. And we talked for about 45 minutes and I said, okay, we have something here so we're not gonna talk anymore unless we're recording it. Because we had really good chemistry and really good conversational flow from the very beginning.

And, you know, I have to say, I am still a little surprised, kind of knowing you from college and especially like knowing you better now at like where you were in your life at that point that you said yes, and that you were like, sure, we're going to go on and we're going to talk about politics. It's going to be great.

Beth: [00:29:48] I'm surprised about that too. I can imagine we tell this story a lot. And the part of the story that I never tell is that there was a gap between Sarah saying, you want to start a podcast and me saying sure. [00:30:00] And in that gap, I was applying for a new job. I liked what I was doing, working in HR better than I liked being a lawyer.

I really liked a lot of the people I worked with in my local office, but outside my local office in my organization, I was very, very unhappy. And I knew that the trajectory was that I was going to get unhappier. And so I had applied for a position that was, and that would have been another like total career pivot. But, you know, once you've done that once, you kind of get into it and. I didn't know if that was going to go anywhere.

 And I knew that I could not do the job I had applied for and have a podcast about politics. They were mutually exclusive. And so I went and had my interview for that position and it was clear to me in the interview that I was not a fit for them and they were not a fit for me. Like I genuinely left not wanting that job. And that's the day that I called Sarah and said, sure, let's do it. And so I think that, [00:31:00] you know, 

Sarah: [00:31:00] I didn't even know that story. 

Beth: [00:31:02] So, I mean, I think one thing is that I was just, I have had several moments in my life where a lot of emotions have been building up to, there will be a change. I don't know what the change might be or how it will happen, but there will be a change. And I had reached another one of those points where I knew I was not gonna stay in my current position forever and probably not for much longer. And I really was kind of high on the confidence of having had another baby. 

That happened to me with Jane, it happened to me again with Ellen. I think there's something about giving birth where you're just like, listen, there's zero things I can't do. That's right. And so. I was just at that crossroads and I had no idea what would come of it. I definitely didn't think it was going to become my full-time job ever, but it sounded like a good project and a project that would draw me out of myself in a way that I needed and probably pushed me in ways that I needed to be pushed.

And it certainly has. [00:32:00] And so that's the gap between the question and the yes was filled with, what am I going to do here now that I know I have some choices to make? 

Sarah: [00:32:10] What, if anything, we would do differently. I mean, I think part of my answer is I would have trusted all of you sooner. I think I would have leaned in more to just pouring ourselves into the podcast instead of constantly feeling like we had to run around and do a bunch of other things, trusting our listeners, even with regards to like listener support and advertising. I mean, I think that you guys, honestly, I think so many members of our audience saw the trajectory of this podcast clearly way before we did really got what we were doing here and the appeal.

And I mean really should have just been like our pitchman and the elevators with us. But, you know, I think if anything would I do differently, would we, I mean, I don't know, I'm not a big person that goes back and rewrites and [00:33:00] thinks through stuff like that. But I do think that there was an opportunity to sort of trust ourselves in what we were building a little sooner. I don't know. What do you think?

Beth: [00:33:07] Well, I, 1000% did not believe people were going to give us money for something that they could listen to for free. Like just did not believe that people would show up and support our work in that way. That's been one of the greatest surprises of my life, honestly, and has really changed my perspective on humanity, not to overstate it.

I mean, like I could say a hundred things, right? Like when I go back and listen to old episodes, there are a million things that now that I know more, I think, Oh my God, I will forever be combating the Beth from the right, mm, um, language and expectations. And that's been really hard, but probably lots of lessons that I needed to learn through that.

And so I just roll with it. The reason that I ultimately come down on, no, I would not do anything different is that I think from day one, having no expectations about this is [00:34:00] what's made it special. Um, and I really try to hold on to that. No expectations, every opportunity I'm surprised and delighted. And I want to hold on to that.

And every person who listens and tells me, like, I meet them and they say, I listened to your show. I'm still like, wow, you do. That's amazing. Why? And you know, it just, it feels like such a gift. And I want it to keep just feeling like that gift because I really think we could ask about cancel culture sometimes.

And my answer is always look, you don't fear cancellation if you don't feel entitled to what you have. And I have not one time sat down and thought, I'm entitled to make this podcast with Sarah and have people listen to it and that has been just the most important piece for me of this whole puzzle.

Okay, 

Sarah: [00:34:48] we're going to move into the next segment, which is our present day. We've got a lot of questions about our routines in particular, like what a day in the life looks like. And we had lots and lots of interest in our morning [00:35:00] routines. Beth, what is your morning routine? 

Beth: [00:35:01] Well, it will surprise one that we have very different approaches, which I learned when we started traveling. Sarah has very hardcore, like morning, evening routines, and I am much more flexible about it. So are we talking. What's our morning routine, like in a non pandemic world, or do we want to do true present day? 

Sarah: [00:35:21] Yeah. True present day because if you can't survive pandemic world, what kind of routine is it? 

Beth: [00:35:26] Well, the biggest change for me, so non pandemic world, I really like to start my day with yoga and that just has not worked for me with the kids at home. So I've instead made exercise kind of like a reward once my work is done instead of my very first thing. So what I do now is get up. I get ready. Like even though I work from home, I put on real clothes and makeup and not a ton, but I get ready.

I want to look like I'm ready to go out of my house at any particular moment [00:36:00] or have to hop on. You know, Instagram or whatever at any particular moment. So I just, I get ready. I get breakfast together for my daughters. We talk about what are we looking forward to today? And then I get them set up for their online schooling.

And usually I sit with Ellen and my five-year-old at a table and I do my work and she does hers. And what my work looks like in the morning, every single morning, I start with going through my email newsletters that have come in and that gives me. A full set of tabs, open on my browser of things that I want to explore and look into.

And, you know, from those, I'm doing things like thinking about what are we going to talk about on the show? What am I going to talk about on the nightly nuance? What do I want to text with Sarah about? Because maybe it's a good feature idea or what do I want to send a lease to make sure she reminds us about sometime in the future.

So I'm just doing all that reading. My morning is intense reading. On Mondays and [00:37:00] Thursdays, we sit down to record the show late morning, usually through lunch. Fortunately, Chad's really good about getting lunch together for everybody since I'm usually sitting at my desk in that window. I sit down every day with a list of usually three bullet points. These are the work things that I must get done today. And so I'd go through all of that stuff and just knock it out. And then I reward myself with yoga or taking a walk or doing something fun with the girls. 

Sarah: [00:37:28] So, yes, I have a hardcore morning routine that I have even leaned more heavily into during the pandemic.

I. Oh, wake up early, not too early. And the first thing I do is morning pages. So I don't do a full three cause it's a lot, but I write until I feel like at least two pages in a smallest journal and just sort of think about what I dreamt about or how's my mood, or just try to get some of the internal chatter down on the [00:38:00] page.

Then I do a 10 minute meditation from 10% Happier. And then I usually do either go for a run probably two days a week, or I still do yoga in the morning. Now, Beth, I will tell you that I, in the pandemic, I agree. Not there's no, there's no time for Adrian, although I love her, but I have really, really fallen in love with yoga with Cassandra's 10 minute morning yogas.

I love those 10 minutes. I can do that. Like, so I do, I do one of those most days. I love her morning yoga. I think there, you told me about her. I think originally her union. 

Beth: [00:38:34] She's a terrific yoga teacher, really good, 

Sarah: [00:38:37] but she has these little morning yoga ones. They're like literally 12 minutes and I'm like, sometimes I'm like, is that enough to have impact? Then I'm like, well, yeah, over a whole week it was like an hour yoga. So I try to do that. And then I get ready and have breakfast and Nicholas and I usually have been, we walked the dog and then I do, sit down and do the [00:39:00] news brief.

 Now we have a nanny, so the online schooling does not fall as heavily on my shoulders, especially in the morning, which is very helpful because if I was having to like, get people keyed into their zooms and try to do the news brief, I would be very fair, very frazzled and stressed.

So I check the news brief. We usually are recording or doing interviews during the day. And then we had somebody ask about journals. And so I have some other journals that I do for my evening routine. I do one of those five-year journals where you answered the same question for five years in a row. I can't believe I'm about to complete the second year already.

And then I have another, it's called the freedom journal. I'm hesitant to recommend it because I don't love it. I'm just trying to finish it. But I do try to like write a little gratitude thing that evening and then. Then read at some point, but this, this sort of day in the life situation was kind of wrapped up in the overall question of like, how do we do it all?

And it's just with an enormous amount of help. I mean, particularly, I'm so lucky that we have a nanny. My mom lives down the street. My husband has an incredibly [00:40:00] flexible work schedule and my mom is retired. My stepdad has a flexible work schedule. My grandmother is still here. I have amazing neighbors and girlfriends that live all around me.

And so, you know, I am a very high energy person and I love to multitask, but all of that just is completely subsumed under the incredible village I live amongst that that makes my life possible. So 

Beth: [00:40:23] we really touched on online school responsibilities. There you have help. I take a lot of it. Chad jumps in and takes it too where chad and I are just kind of playing volleyball all the time.

I think with online school and with eating and everything, but we have a really good partnership. Um, I'm very lucky that we both work from home. It makes a huge difference. Someone asks about, um, my cooking and particularly kind of comfort food recipes that I come back to. I think someone asked about what I like to cook on like weekday evenings. And here's the truth of it. I don't love to cook on weekday evenings. I really don't love to just get food on the table. I like a day where I'm making a [00:41:00] feast for my people. 

Sarah: [00:41:00] That's so true. You do like, like the event, you should have been a caterer man. 

Beth: [00:41:05] Oh, believe me. I've thought about it.

And maybe in my next act, I like change. We'll see. But I do. I like to just, I like a plan, a grid of responsibilities. I like countdown to that day. Here's what I'm doing every day is I'm leading up to it. I dig that, but I don't love to just get dinner on the table. So I rely heavily on resources like the Lazy Genius.

I love her Change Your Life Chicken. If you haven't made that chicken before, check it out, it will become a staple in your rotation. I love slow cooker stuff. I love like at breakfast time, if I put baked potatoes in the crockpot, I feel like I'm just killing it at life and we're gonna have baked potatoes and soup or something at lunch, but I've done something to make lunch easier.

I feel really good about that. I use an instant pot and an air fryer as though they're paying me to use them. And I really like making instant pot butter chicken. I'll put a link for that in the show notes. 

Sarah: [00:41:57] Do you have the Indian food instant [00:42:00] pot recipe? Book the cookbook. You got to get it. Nicholas makes everything in that dang book, man. I'll have in the show notes. It's his favorite. 

Beth: [00:42:07] Yeah. Cause I love, I love any kind of Curry situation. Like I'm just, I'm really into instant pot and air fryer because I like things where I have cooked something, but I don't have my oven heating forever. 

Sarah: [00:42:17] Yeah. 

Beth: [00:42:19] So I'll put some links in, but the truth is I'm not very helpful on weekday cooking because I do not enjoy it. And in fact, I have come to resent it. 

Sarah: [00:42:29] Well, I don't cook. Smartest decision I ever made, married a man who cooks. I will say that when we got first, when he proposed to me, he was making hamburger helper. Y'all it's been a, it's been a very long evolution to where I basically now live with a professional chef.

okay. This was a fun question for me. So yes, I'm a two on the, any, or actually her name's Sarah, Sarah asks I'm a two on the Enneagram, like Beth and I cry so easily like Sarah. My question is for Sarah, I come to [00:43:00] tears so easily. It often holds me back from sharing or speaking in a group. I'm wondering how you think about your tears and how you've overcome any shame about them? I always smile inside when you tear up. 

Well, I guess the real story, it was a little bit of a trial by fire. I was the one of like five valedictorians at my high school and I wrote a speech and then the day of, I was like, I don't like the speech. It is stupid. And I rewrote it and I leaned very hard into the gratitude I felt towards my classmates and the people who had supported us and particularly how grateful I felt to be alive after the shooting at my high school. And I cried through the entire thing in front of a massive crowd of people.

 I mean, like not teared up, wept through the entire speech. And so I think, you know, after I did that and kind of, you know, once you cried in front of everybody at your valedictorian speech, like it just, doesn't not much matters after that.

[00:44:00] Uh, And I've just felt that the hers are a really good signal to me that I'm on the right track, like when I'm writing or when I'm speaking or when I'm trying to express myself that I don't feel the shame for the tears because the tears to me say, you're feeling this in a way that words can't even capture, which means you must be onto something. You must have struck, struck a nerve. You must really be on the path of clarifying what you're trying to say, expressing fully what you're feeling. And so the tears to me are there like a, they're like a guidepost or I guess a superpower if I'm feeling really full of myself, but I just, you know, I don't, I've never really felt shame about it.

Like I get frustrated when I, in the past, when I've gotten so angry that I'm cried and I feel like I can't get across what I'm saying cause I'm so upset. But I just, I think there's a part of me that realizes like, but that gets people's [00:45:00] attention too. Like that is a way to express that you feel strongly just as much as forcefully arguing or yelling or, you know, whatever the case may be. So yeah, I just look at them as my as my little feelings, barometer. And so, uh, I did, I did feel a twinge of like, Oh man, am I that bad? Somebody left in a review one time that was like, and the other one cries all the time. And I was like, I don't cry all the time.

That's rude. That's the only time I've ever felt a little bit and I can't believe it came from a stupid anonymous iTunes review, but 

Beth: [00:45:32] Those ones do though, I mean, I have to stop reading them. It just does. Yeah. 

Sarah: [00:45:35] But then at one time, that's the only time I've ever felt like. Cause it felt like, well, I think, because it felt like the person was implying that I was not smart, that I was just emotional. Like all I, all I did was cry and that's not how I feel. I mean, I, and I don't think that's true. I have, my tears are valuable, but it's not the only thing I have to offer. Maybe that's maybe that's the, the conclusion. 

Beth: [00:45:57] So I have a question for you about this because I always [00:46:00] compliment your emotional elasticity.

Like you can be all teary and then the next second it be cracking up, or super angry, or just having moved on entirely from the tears, which is not the case for me. Like, I don't cry often on the show because if I start crying, like we're going to be here awhile. I'm going to be in, it's gonna be a couple of days before I myself again. So I want to know if you've always been like that, or if that's something you've developed over time, because you recognize the value of those tears? 

Sarah: [00:46:28] Well, I guess this is really where I wish I could phone a friend or phone a mom and ask my mom. Um, I don't think no, I think I have always been a very emotional person. I mean, I was kinda like known for being a little bit of drama when I was a little girl and I, my feelings were always right on the surface. Right. You know, you would think being like the red headed kid with glasses, I would have like built up a thick skin, but it was almost the opposite. 

Like I think that I just, I still, I still feel very like my feelings are just right there on the surface all the time. [00:47:00] And I've gotten a little bit better. I have actually been, I remember one time early in the pandemic where you were like, I just went outside and cried and I felt so much better. And I felt like I w like I cry, the tears were on the surface, but I don't like really break down.

Or I felt like I haven't this year very often, even though I kind of felt like I needed to. So I don't know if it's, if it's a symptom of, um, a elasticity or maybe deeper depression, who knows, but. I feel like I've always, I've always been a person with very big feelings and I mean, I don't know. Do you remember? I feel like I cried a lot in college. Do you remember me crying a lot in college? 

Beth: [00:47:33] Not really, but I don't remember a whole lot about college so that doesn't mean anything. I mean, I think, I think that's always the weird thing for us. Like people think w that those surface level comments that get to us, it always sounds like I'm just smart, but have no soul.

And you're just emotional but have no intellect. And I think that that's always what hurts because I'm always like, I'm a person with feelings too, and Sarah is super duper [00:48:00] smart. And so why can't you see fast, these characatures, but then when you work on the internet and I think we're getting better at like, talking about that and handling it.

Sarah: [00:48:08] True. True. 

Beth: [00:48:09] So we had another question, we're in the miscellaneous section now. Okay. Um, one thing you thought you'd never do, but changed your mind on? 

Sarah: [00:48:17] I have to go first. I've got to think about this one a minute, even though I had these questions in advance. 

Beth: [00:48:21] I didn't think I would have children really. I never did. I never played house or thought of myself as the mom. I did not have kind of a timeline in mind for relationships with kids in mind, really, until we got married. I just figured that children would not be a part of my life. I think that's because I mean, not to like harp on the Enneagram. 

I know that makes so many people roll their eyes in unison, but I think because I'm a two on the Enneagram and I have kind of an unhealthy way of wanting to please other people of wanting other people to think that I'm competent, that I'm taking care of them, and that's how I feel loved and [00:49:00] appreciated. I think I have always known that being a mom would be really tricky for me.

Mm. And so maybe on some level, there was just a sense of like, you gotta fix your stuff before you try to have kids. And I honestly think that had I not spent so much time in therapy, which I did because of a car accident when I was 17. I mean, it's funny the things in your life that ended up forming the chains that moved me forward, but.

I really think that had I not done so much time in therapy, I wouldn't have had kids. And I think that had I not done so much time in therapy around being pregnant and having young children that it would have been really hard for me instead of being, you know, obviously just this wonderful transformative part of my life that has it's done the opposite of what I was afraid of.

I was afraid that having kids would would mean there would be nothing left of me. And instead having kids has been the best invitation I've ever received to be more of myself all the time. [00:50:00] So it was a big one. 

Sarah: [00:50:02] I agree. It's good for me to answer this question because it really just depends on how old I was and it wasn't like a never will I ever, because I've always been a person that kind of realized that's a, that's a dangerous dance to take just because you can't see the future.

But I mean, 18 year old Sarah would have told you she was never coming back to Paducah. For sure. I mean, she also would have told you she was marrying her high school boyfriend. So I felt like, you know, at different stages in my life like that, I, I definitely knew the right way to be, you know, I think that 30 year old Sarah would be shocked by how much makeup I wear right now. 

Cause she was done with it and she thought that was so silly. You know, it's stuff like that. Where at certain points in my life, I really thought I'd figured something out. And then I see it with whole new eyes and like definitely a new understanding of what I was missing before, but nothing. I don't, I don't know if there's anything [00:51:00] huge I said, I said I would never, ever do, but change my mind now because I'm not a, I'm not a never, ever person. I mean, there's a lot of things I'd if like Oprah was inviting me to do them, I'd be like, yeah, sure. I definitely will be a great professional basketball player over. Let's do this. 

Beth: [00:51:16] If you could have any job in the world, besides the career path, you found yourself on, meaning dream job, no strings attached, money doesn't matter, you don't have responsibilities as a wife and a mom, what would you pursue? 

Sarah: [00:51:28] I probably should have been a preacher. That's the career path that the older I get I'm like, man. That's what this, this is what my personality is suited for. Like, it's sort of like the parts of this job that I really, really love. Place all my, my best Enneagram one tendencies and I think that if I had been born a man, even in the, you know, exact same place, I was, that's probably what I would have pursued. And if money wasn't an option and I didn't have the responsibilities. And, and because I think I could do it and still do this, like I would probably pursue [00:52:00] like, the degree and go do that and be a minister somewhere.

I just, I liked that. I liked the mix of people and like philosophy and leadership. I just, I liked the mix of that job, but I'm most likely, probably very much glamorizing it. And it's, it's just like every other job, a lot harder once you're on the inside. 

Beth: [00:52:21] I would work in the foreign service. I would love to live all over the world. I would love to speak lots of different languages. I would love to be a diplomat. So that's, that's where I would go. If, if nothing else mattered. 

Sarah: [00:52:32] Well, this is a good lead into the next question, which is if we could go anywhere, where would we go?

Beth: [00:52:40] I mean, I don't know if we're talking about just like, if I could go anywhere and come back, you know? I mean, Mars, I would love to see the universe in as much context as I possibly could. If I were going to live somewhere else, I really feel connected to Canadians. Um, I think that would be a good spot for me. [00:53:00] I visited Helsinki in college and I loved it, loved it. So if I just had to pick another place to live in the world right now, that would probably be it. 

Sarah: [00:53:09] Well, I don't want to live anywhere else. I really like where I live. We know this. I mean, if I could start over and like be from anywhere else. That's like a whole other ball game.

And I would probably be British as covered on last Tuesday show. But if I could just go anywhere, if we're just, we know the money's no option and we get to travel anywhere in the world, I would really like to go on an African Safari and like a tour of Asia, like those, like parts of the world, especially Japan and Indonesia, like they're just credibly appealing to me.

And I want to go so bad. I want to go and eat that entire paragraph from Crazy Rich Asians. So badly. I think about it all the time. I just want to trace every sentence and eat at every food stand and order everything they order in that paragraph. 

Beth: [00:53:58] Okay. So if we're just doing travel, like [00:54:00] I would love to spend like a month in Australia and see as much of Australia as possible with Chad. I think that'd be super duper fun. 

Okay. These are, these are kind of fast. And then we're going to get into our really fast segment. We're going to bring Alise on for that, because as we've demonstrated so far, we can't be trusted with it. We're too verbose. 

Sarah, um, for anybody who's a newer listener, way back in the early days of the democratic primaries, you want to tell everybody who you supported? 

Sarah: [00:54:26] Um, well, I voted for Elizabeth Warren, even though Joe Biden was already the nominee that point because I have such enormous respect for her. I think she is so clear-eyed about the problems this country faces. And I think that her depth of policy knowledge on solutions that would really work for those problems are just unmatched. And I think that she is incredibly empathetic and thoughtful and just, I loved her to pieces. I love her. 

Beth: [00:54:59] I [00:55:00] really was passionate about Cory Booker. By the time I got to vote in Kentucky, it was very low stakes situation in the primaries. But, um, I voted for Pete Buttigieg because Cory Booker was not on my ballot.

I really appreciate the moral clarity that Cory Booker has and how positive he is and sometimes I just think about, Oh my gosh, what if a Cory Booker had led us through the coronavirus? Um, With that bully pulpit, you know, so I still think a lot of him, and I think he has really important things to say to this country.

Pete Buttigeig was my second choice, because I like his view of foreign policy. I also like how he communicates, you know, I'm, I am looking for someone who can be both intellectual. And grounded while also possessing all the intellect that I'm looking for in a leader. And I felt like both of them really fit that bill and just policy-wise, you know, I'm a little, I'm a little farther from Booker than Buttigieg, probably.

Um, but I even where I have disagreement with them, feel really comfortable with their reasoning. And so that's where I [00:56:00] shook out. Okay. Sarah. 

Sarah: [00:56:02] This is fascinating to me. We had a bunch of pop culture questions, and Beth, you selected this one, which I was a little shocked, but I'm not going to lie. Somebody asked for our opinions on the Free Britney movement.

Britney Spears is under a guardianship and has been trying to get out from her father's guardianship, but a request was denied. I just, I'm being honest. I was a little shocked you picked this question. 

Beth: [00:56:23] Well, fun facts. In law school, I took a comparative law class and I did this massive project on guardianship laws, comparing guardianship laws in the United States and Canada. And then I did a little bit of work as a young lawyer on guardianship. I would not say I was suited for that kind of work at all. It was not a pleasant part of my experience, practicing law. Um, but I did a little bit of that work.

 So I am interested in any scenario where we are talking about a person's ability to make decisions about their most fundamental rights as a person, [00:57:00] right. How I spend my money, whether I make decisions about my health care. I think that's some of the most important just human rights aspects of the law right now. And we don't really talk enough about it. So this is really just like a personal passion of mine that I never have a place to exercise. 

And, you know, it's Britney Spears has been the background of the soundtrack of my life, right, because of my age and seeing Britneyy Spears journey has been important and formative in a lot of ways. So I don't have, I mean, I think the biggest thing for me is when I think too much about the free Britney thing, it feels a little exploitative. It feels concerning. I wonder what she would choose if she were talking to all of us, candidly, without any influence constantly about this, but the subject of when do we lose the ability to make decisions for ourselves?

I am glad [00:58:00] people are paying more attention to, because I think it's really important. 

Sarah: [00:58:04] Well, we also got a question about Taylor Swift and this maybe is my answer to one thought, one thing you thought you'd never do, but changed your mind on which is listen to Taylor Swift. I loved her in law school and everybody fell for her.

I didn't like her first album. I thought it was cheesy. Then she wrote the what's the, uh, the big one where she's running around the dress and the song that made her really, really famous Romeo Juliet. I don't remember the name of it. Y'all are all screaming at the, at the at your phones or computers or whatever right now.

But, uh, and then I just really got turned off of Taylor Swift for a very long time and thought she's so shallow and well, I'm not shallow. I just wrote, felt like, like we're in different places and I'm excited for her to get a little older and more mature, but I had kind of written her off and I've really changed my tune.

I'm back, I'm back in with Taytay. I think she's doing amazing things and not just because she got political, although I think that was the smart move. I loved the documentary [00:59:00] Folklore so much, that album is amazing. And I take back all the main or dismissive things I said about Taylor Swift, probably five to seven years ago.

Beth: [00:59:09] Okay. We're  calling in Alise to be our grownup now to monitor us through our lightning round. Take it away Alise.

Alise: [00:59:22] Okay. So before we start the lightning round, I just have to get an almost Taylor Swift conversation really quick. No one asked my opinion, but I'm going to share it anyway. Cause I have a lot of thoughts about Taylor Swift and I'm gonna try and keep it quick. So, Beth, I think as you were saying, in the same way that Brittany Spears was the soundtrack of your life, I think that Taylor Swift has been the soundtrack of mine in a lot of ways.

Sarah: [00:59:43] That's our calling you old Beth. That's what? That was just was.

Beth: [00:59:47] I got it. I got it.

Alise: [00:59:48] It has long been my go-to guilty pleasure music, but I think she wasn't my soundtrack in the same way cause I wasn't allowed to listen to her when she was first popular, but like Taylor Swift, like she was right in those like [01:00:00] teenage crush feelings when I was experiencing them and she was going through bad breakups and writing about them when I was going through bad breakups.

And now she's in a long-term relationship and so am I. And all of that, Sarah, I think is the reason that you went off her for awhile. I think it's why people have really polarized feelings about her. I think she's grown up in front of all of us and shared the emotional experience of like life and aging and maturing with vulnerability in a way that like few artists do.

So I know a lot of people have a lot of feelings about her as like a singer or a guitar player or musician. That's fine, but I think she's a masterful songwriter. I think that she worked on her capturing the teenage years and early love and crushes in like this really poignant way. And then I think she went through some hell of rough years in her early twenties.

I think she was trying to figure out who she was in front of all of us. And we watched her live out like the pain of that and some mistakes, some definite mistakes. And like, she just went through like what I like to think of a second [01:01:00] puberty, right? The early twenties are kind of like a weird second puberty that I think we all go through and she did it in front of all of us and not, did not always make good choices.

And I think that's when a lot of people took a break from her, Sarah and me, to an extent too, because I think her music wasn't as good. In my opinion. I think 

Sarah: [01:01:15] It was just repetitive. She was saying the same thing over and over again. I got it. And listen, she still does that to a certain extent, like I'm listening to Evermore right now. I like it, but the songs all sound very similar. Probably gonna get a million emails. Don't email me. I'm only halfway through. 

Alise: [01:01:31] We, I should say, we are recording this the morning that Evermore came out, so we haven't fully digested it yet, but here's what I think about her recent stuff. I think that as happens when we age and mature, she has learned and grown a lot in the last few years and her whole life has become more settled for lack of a better word. My husband is like a massive Taylor Swift fan, has never taken a break from her.

 And we've talked about this a lot in the last month. Cause we're we love Folklore. I think [01:02:00] Lover was amazing, but I think Folklore and now Evermore, totally new layer of her. I think what I like about these songs, which granted, I just like folk music so I'm a little biased, but like it's quiet and settled and reflects love that is the same. Like she's settled into the same phase of life that we're in, where it's not like, love is like bursting on the scene and like a Speak Now with all the drama of like an emotional roller coaster, like it's quiet and steady and more complex, like in a really good way.

And I think that's why this is her best phase yet. Those are my thoughts about Taylor Swift. 

Sarah: [01:02:32] Well, I mean, I don't know how subtle she is. She still has a backpack for a cat, so, well, that's true, but I am happy to see her mature. That was definitely my beef is I just felt like she didn't, she wasn't saying anything new. I'm ready for her to start saying new things. And I think she is, and I'm here for it. 

Alise: [01:02:46] Totally. I think we're on the same page and, um, I'm really in my Taylor Swift love right now, so. Okay. You ready to do a lightning round? 

Sarah: [01:02:54] Yes. 

Beth: [01:02:56] All right, let's do it. So, as you mentioned earlier, we got [01:03:00] like way more than a hundred questions. So we're going to try and get through some of them as quickly as we can. So here we go. 

Alise: [01:03:05] Let's start off with people who wanted to know all about your beauty routines. Sarah, your skincare routine? Beth, your hair. You want to tell the people? 

Beth: [01:03:13] Well, I reluctantly with some Instagram stories about my hair. It's the most conversation about hair I've ever had in my life. And I thought that I did like very comprehensive work in talking about my hair on Instagram and then like so many questions came in. So I have endeavored to answer all of them. I have saved those stories to a highlight and, uh, my husband and lots of his friends just took a breath of relief that I'm not going to talk more about my hair here, I'm certain. 

Sarah: [01:03:42] Okay. So I'm going to do a Instagram story tomorrow on my skincare routine. And I will also save it to the frequently asked question highlights. But the too long did not watch if you don't want to go on Instagram is I just do what Jamie B Golden tells me too. The other day we were boxing. And she said, [01:04:00] do you not know the ingredients of any of your skincare products?

And I said, no, why would I? You do. I just buy what you tell me to buy. That's all I know. Jamie told me to buy it. That's the only information I know. I've gotten a little bit better. I have a working knowledge now and I will share the products I use, but if you don't want to bother to go over to it, Instagram, I just do what Jamie B Golden tells me to.

Okay, great. 

Alise: [01:04:22] So skincare. Haircare all on Instagram highlights, hid there. All right. Favorite ice cream flavor?

Beth: [01:04:28] Mine is coconut chip from Graters, which is a Cincinnati brand. It's so good. I know this is lightning round, but I just have to tell you, they use this French pot process and they pour chocolate in while it's spinning. And so the chocolate gets cold and it freezes in these great big chunks and it's really high quality chocolate. So it's the best 

Sarah: [01:04:49] Reese's peanut butter cup lizard. 

Alise: [01:04:50] Okay. And mine is Jenny's sweet potato and torched marshmallow, which is a seasonal flavor they do in the fall every other year. And this is an off year. So you can't get it right [01:05:00] now. So I'll just say that it's the Talenti gelato, Mediterranean Mint. 

Sarah: [01:05:04] Y'all are extra, y'all some ice cream is extra just saying, 

Alise: [01:05:08] yeah, we like bougie ice cream. Um, okay. Favorite candy?

Beth: [01:05:12] M and M's 

Sarah: [01:05:13] peanut M and M's 

Alise: [01:05:14] the darker the chocolate, the better. Just plain dark chocolate. A favorite snack?

Beth: [01:05:20] I like an Apple with peanut butter. 

Sarah: [01:05:23] My favorite snack is always and forever cookies. I don't even care what 

Alise: [01:05:26] kind. Awesome. Mine's popcorn. Okay. Favorite meal? 

Beth: [01:05:30] My favorite meal is this vegetarian plate that they make at table a French restaurant in Cincinnati. It's different every time, but they just find something with vegetables that I don't see anywhere else that's fantastic. 

Sarah: [01:05:43] I read this as like favorite meal of the day and mine is breakfast. I love breakfast. I would really eat breakfast for lunch and dinner if I could. 

Beth: [01:05:51] Oh, well breakfast is obviously my favorite meal of the day too. I read it as like, what do you want to sit down and eat if you can have anything?

Alise: [01:05:58] I read it that way too. And Beth, you already [01:06:00] shouted this out, but mine has actually change your life chicken, which we're having for dinner tonight. Mm. Kendra has changed my life. 

Sarah: [01:06:07] Love it. 

Alise: [01:06:08] Okay. Favorite unhealthy cereal?

Beth: [01:06:10] Captain crunch forever. 

Sarah: [01:06:12] I struggled with this one because I have not consumed cereal in like 10 years. Cause it makes me feel like total crap. But I think back in the day, I really liked Kashi shredded wheat, but I don't think that's unhealthy, I guess. So I guess I would say honey nut Cheerios, 

Alise: [01:06:25] uh, see Sarah I'm on the same page with you. Cause I don't really well, I eat cereal, just not unhealthy cereal. Kevin says that I just eat grandma's cereal. So my favorite cereal is cracklin oat bran. And I'm just saying that that's unhealthy for our budget. Cause it's expensive. 

Beth: [01:06:40] You two are ridiculous. Trashy cereal is the best. 

Sarah: [01:06:44] Like captain crunch leaves that coating on the top of your mouth. 

Beth: [01:06:49] It's so good. I mean, captain coach was my favorite as a kid. I just, I don't know. I just, if I want something sugary for breakfast, I'm going to go with like French toast 

Sarah: [01:06:56] or right. Pancakes muffins. [01:07:00] Literally. There's a toast with all the jelly. 

Beth: [01:07:02] My eyes are rolling so hard. So. 

Alise: [01:07:06] Um, okay. What are the best games, particularly board games for a four year old boy? Sarah, I feel like this is your question.

Sarah: [01:07:13] Well, I said Spot It, which is the, like the most delightful little game. It's this tin, it's circle cards and every card has like six images on it. And then you flip to the next card and you have to find which of the two images are on both cards. I really don't understand the math of this game at all, but it's really fun.

It's easy to like stick in your purse and play at a restaurant. Um, there's no rating. it's fun. It's quick moving. And so I would definitely say Spot It and then as a follow up for sure,Candy Land forever. And always, 

Alise: [01:07:41] do you have any thoughts about board games? 

Beth: [01:07:43] Not for four year old boys. I don't know. I don't know four year old boys.

Alise: [01:07:46] Four year old girls?

 Ellen really loves Hi-ho Cheerio. Um, and she also loves Candy Land and my girls love to play Apples to Apples. They don't understand like nine tenths of it, but they think it's hysterical. , 

[01:08:00] okay. What was the best purchase you made during quarantine? 

Beth: [01:08:05] The best purchase I made during quarantine is, it has a terrible name, but it's this hand cream from Duluth trading company. It's lavender hand cream. I believe the brand name is No Crack, which I don't love, but I mean, we're all washing our hands like crazy. My skin has never been so dry and I love this hand cream. It's been so helpful. 

Alise: [01:08:27] That's so much more luxurious than mine. Go ahead, Sarah. 

Sarah: [01:08:30] My best purchase is the shiatsu back and neck massager. Nypa, I guess is how you pronounce it, but it's the, it's a massage. Like it has the like kneading balls that you see in most like neck massagers, but you put your arms through these holes and so the weight of your arms pull it down. It's fantastic I love it so much. 

Alise: [01:08:52] Both of you are so much more of your purchases are so much more like luxurious than mine.

My first thing that came to mind for me was the fact that [01:09:00] we bought some really cheap shelves to put in our guest rooms so that now our guest room is an extra pantry space for us. Cause like we're not getting guests and our pantry is tiny. So we just have more, more space to store food. 

Beth: [01:09:12] That makes sense to me. I do want a rain check on this question because I just got a bamboo steamer so I can learn to make bow and I'm really excited about it. So, uh, you know, check back with me in 2021.

Alise: [01:09:25] I need you to send me whatever you learn about that. Cause we have had a bamboo steamer forever, and I don't know that I've ever used it, but I want to learn. So when you learn, teach me.

Beth: [01:09:34] We do a little FaceTime.

Alise: [01:09:36] Perfect. Sarah, the people want to know how you put together the gallery wall in your office that's so beautiful. 

Sarah: [01:09:41] Well, I am going to do an Instagram stories because people ask me about the gallery wall a lot. That's going to be in the frequently asked question, maybe sometime over Christmas break.

But my friend, Sarah is an expert gallery wall hanger, and she came over and we literally laid it out on the floor in front of the wall, if that makes [01:10:00] sense. Like we laid it all out on the floor so we could kind of see it and then just moved it up to the wall slowly. And then I add to the wall. So if you, if you're a long time watcher, I don't know, you probably have never seen all the way at the top, but it's growing up the wall.

I just keep sticking stuff and that's much more haphazard approach and it takes a really tall ladder, but that's basically it. 

Beth: [01:10:19] All right. So if you want to know about Sarah's gallery wall, head to Instagram highlights for that as well. Um, okay. For her fourth or fifth, shout out in this episode, Jamie Golden wants to know if you wash your shins in the shower.

Sarah: [01:10:31] I'm very excited to hear best answer to this. 

Beth: [01:10:33] I do once a week. 

Sarah: [01:10:35] Once a week. 

Beth: [01:10:36] Listen, I'm not dirty at all right now. The truth is I'm just giving the shower to get away from people. My time in the shower right now is just whatever I enjoy, but I make sure at least once a week, I do a good scrubbing as my grandmother would say, good scrubbing.

Sarah: [01:10:53] I do not wash my shins. No, I don't. I don't do any sort of all over body [01:11:00] scrub. I scrubbed the dirty bits. That's just the cause my skin is hyper sensitive and dries out really easy. So I save all that for the Korean spa. 

Alise: [01:11:09] I've literally never thought about this until this question. And I realized I only watched the front of my shins. Like I bend down and like wash the front of them, but I don't do anything about the back, but I'm with Beth. Like I'm not. Um, I don't get dirty. 

Sarah: [01:11:19] Yeah. That's like, what are you washing off? And also it's all running down your entire leg. It's at the bottom of your body. All the soap and water is running right past it 

Beth: [01:11:26] This is a whole Twitter thing you guys, about how weird white people are because we, a lot of us like don't wash our legs at all in the shower. So you've just missed the maelstrom on Twitter about this and good for you.

Alise: [01:11:39] There was this whole thing about different groups of people that use washcloths or don't. Right, right. He wants to know if you all went to Girls' State in high school and if so, what your jobs were?

Beth: [01:11:51] I did not, not a thing that my high school did. 

Sarah: [01:11:54] I did go to girls state. Oh, y'all, I've actually thought about putting this on Instagram before. My [01:12:00] one piece of legislation at girls state was a partial birth abortion ban. Discuss amongst yourselves. I don't remember my 

Alise: [01:12:06] That's on brand for you in high school.

Sarah: [01:12:08] It was on brand for me in high school. Yes. I think I was the whip. I think I'm not sure. I don't remember. I remember the campaigns. I remember one girl in particular's campaign poster, which featured a very large glamour shot. And I remember my roommate who now teaches at my children's elementary school, but I have a terrible memory.

I just, I just remember that legislation cause I found it in my massive memory trophy the other day and was like, Oh my goodness. 

Beth: [01:12:33] So as Girl State like model UN, but for state government, 

Sarah: [01:12:37] Yeah. I mean, it's like you go and you you're, there's like a legislator. I don't remember if there's an executive branch or if it's just the legislative branch I'm telling you, my memory is very, very, very weak on this.

I mean, I remember the actually the most important lesson I learned from girls' State is our local state Senator took us out for, to Applebee's before we left to give us advice, uh, for me and my high school girlfriends. And, uh, I [01:13:00] will never forget him saying, telling us that when he ran, his opponent Ran this radio ad and the song was jeepers creepers, where'd you get Bob Leeper. And all it did was say his name, Bob Leeper, over and over and over and over again.

 And he was like, number one, listen to politics is name recognition. And that was the biggest favor he could have done for me. That's like my most, I remember from girl state, which is only really adjacent to the girl state itself.

Alise: [01:13:22] It's so true because in my freshman year of undergrad, the only thing I remember from student government elections is that someone got up for their campaign speech and said, you should vote for me. My name's Kurt, Kurt rhymes with dirt, vote for Kurt. 

Sarah: [01:13:37] See? Yep. It works. That's not depressing at all. 

Beth: [01:13:43] Okay.

Alise: [01:13:43] Okay. Uh, top five nonpolitical podcasts. Other than ours, although I guess as ours is political. 

Beth: [01:13:49] So, so I like the Lazy Genius as we have been discussing, I tend to binge listen to the lazy genius. Like I'll get in a space where I'm like, somebody helped me fix my life, I've gotten off track. [01:14:00] And then Kendra does that for me.

I love Tara Brock. So much better and smarter and kinder when I listened to Tara Brock. I enjoy This is Love a lot. That's another one that I go in burst on. I listened to Revisionist History so that I can stay in conversation with Sarah when that season is out. And I sometimes get in a mood where I really love Harry Potter and the Sacred Text.

Sarah: [01:14:24] My top five nonpolitical podcasts are This American life. You know, it's the first podcast I really listened to in depth and for a long period of time. So it just holds a piece of my heart now and forever. I love On Being with Krista Tippett. I'm a better, kinder person when I listen to Krista Tippett, for sure.

I love the Popcast. Let's just keep, just keep shutting out. Uh, Jamie Golden. Let's see many times if you have a bingo card with Jamie Golden's name on it, you should be winning by now. I also love Revisionist History and I really love Death, Sex and Money. That's a podcast I kind of binge on and off. Like, I'll go and I'll listen to like the whole season.

[01:15:00] And then I won't for a while and then go back. So that, how many is that? Is that five that's five, right? Yeah, I think that's fine. 

Alise: [01:15:06] Yeah. I, I totally second This American Life and Revisionist History and Lady Genius, love those. I would also say for an OG podcast, Stuff You Should Know, I've been listening to basically since the beginning and it's part of what I used to win my husband over, when we were dating and we listen to it every single night before bed still. 

And I would also say Noble Blood. I really liked that. I like to binge that. Bible for Normal People. I like that like to binge it. Um, speaking of bingeing, um, if you're a hardcore nerd about certain things, Binge Mode is really good. They, that is definitely like a thing I do in seasons. Um, I really liked the Harry Potter season and the star Wars season. I think they're doing Marvel right now, but they like go real deep. 

But my very, very favorite non political podcast right now is Home Cooking, which Beth, you would love if you're not listening to it already.

Beth: [01:15:54] I will check it out.

Alise: [01:15:56] Yeah, it's really good. Um, okay. So very last question of lightning round. Are you [01:16:00] ready? I feel like we should have a drum roll. Dylan and Simeon, put in a drum roll here. We got several people asking this, are y'all gonna write another book?

Beth: [01:16:09] We are going to write another book. 

Sarah: [01:16:10] We are gonna write another book, like officially signed the contract, can announce it to the public that we are writing another book.

We're thrilled to be joining the team at Ravel. And we are planning on writing another book that will come out in 2022. 

Beth: [01:16:32] It's really fun to work on this project because Kelsey, our editor there is just, she's already been so awesome to work with and really gets what we do here and cares about it. And so the opportunity to work with people who get what we do and care about it is always great.

It's never led us wrong. I did not know if we would ever write another book. Honestly. I think Sarah, you always thought we went and I was not so sure. Um, so this has been [01:17:00] a fun surprise for me. No, because I didn't think we could. I just wasn't sure if we'd want to, you know, I wasn't sure all the things would come together. Um, but the things have come together. 

Sarah: [01:17:09] So we really see the next book as a followup to our first book. We really want to take the lessons we've learned since writing. I think you're wrong, but I'm listening and expand our message to how to really go out and be in your community and create change in your community and connect those around you.

You know, that's like something we talk about so much on the podcast, is that this is not an individual pursuit. That I'm creating the world you want to exist in is a group project. And so that's what we're going to be talking about in the next book. It feels so nice. It feels like this. We're giving everybody this nice little Christmas present to ripe out of the show.

This the question we get asked a lot, and now we get to finally give you all the answer. And we're so excited about it. 

Beth: [01:17:50] Well, and please watch your email, make sure you're on our email list. If you aren't, you can go to PantsuitPoliticsShow.com and subscribe, but we're going to be asking for you all to help us a [01:18:00] lot in the process of writing this book.

So many of you have amazing stories. We know from the emails you send this already, and we want your stories to be part of the lessons that we're sharing in this book. So stay in touch with us because we're going to be asking for lots of your thoughts as this comes together. 

Alise: [01:18:16] Well, this was really fun. What a fun way to close out. If you did not get your question answered, don't worry. Sarah and Beth are going to answer more of this stuff on Patreon and more on Instagram. And we're also, we have a giant spreadsheet with all these questions, so we're not losing any of them. And we will do more episodes like this in the future.

Beth: [01:18:32] Sarah, the AUA episode was your vision. Are you satisfied? 

Sarah: [01:18:35] I am. I think it was really fun. I love it. And I'm excited about answering even more questions. Uh y'all they had really good questions. 

Beth: [01:18:42] We will be back in your ears here on Friday to process the year politically. So we're gonna just kind of start in January. Don't worry. It's not going to be a lot of detailed reliving, just more, what, what are we thinking about? What have we learned? What's in our minds going into the holiday and we are so excited to [01:19:00] share that conversation with you. 

Thank you so much for joining us and for being interested enough in what we do here to ask us all of these fun questions, have the best week available to you. We'll see you on Friday. I keep it nuanced, y'all.

Beth: [01:20:42] Pantsuit Politics is  produced by Studio D Podcast Production.  

Sarah: [01:20:46] Alise Napp is our managing director. Dante Lima is the composer and performer of our theme music. 

Beth: [01:21:22] Our show is listener supported. Special thanks to our executive producers. 

Sarah: [01:21:55] David McWilliams. Ally Edwards, Martha Bernitski, Amy Whited, 

Janice Elliot, Sarah Ralph Barry Kaufman, Jeremy Sequoia, Laurie Ladow, Emily Neislie,  

Alison Luzador. Tracy Puddoff,  Danny Ozment, Molly Cores, Julie Hallar, 

Jared Minson, Marnie Johanson. The Creeds! 

Beth: [01:23:01]Sherry Blem, Tiffany Hassler, Morgan McCue, Nicole Berkless, Linda Daniel, Joshua Alle, and Tim Miller. 

Sarah: [01:23:28] To support Pantsuit Politics, and receive lots of bonus features, visit patreon.com/pantsuit politics. 

Beth: [01:23:34] You can connect with us on our website, PantsuitPoliticsShow.com. Sign up for our weekly emails and follow us on Instagram.

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