What We Have Gained In This Election Cycle

What+We+Have+Gained+In+This+Election+Cycle.jpg

Topics Discussed:

  • Covid-19 Update

  • Living with Uncertainty

  • Phillip Walton - American Hostage in Niger

  • Election Day Plans

  • Paths to Victory

  • Election Gratitude

  • Outside of Politics

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Episode Resources

Transcript

Beth: [00:00:00] Hello, everyone. Thank you for spending some time on election day with us. We're so glad that you're here. We're going to talk about a little bit of news today. Mostly we're going to do a little election level-setting, retrospective meditation on the election, just to try to help us all feel a little better in what is.

An incredibly stressful time. But before we do that, we have a little personal news. As they say on Twitter. 

Sarah: [00:00:28] We are celebrating our fifth birthday today. We're so excited. We started this podcast in November of 2015. Here we are, five years later in a very different political environment. But when I have definitely been able to traverse and survive, thanks to Pantsuit Politics, we are so grateful for every single one of you.

We have the most uh-mazing listener community. Y'all Emily sent us a milk bar birthday cake. Can you even, can you even with the generosity of this community, helping us celebrate our fifth birthday. 

Beth: [00:01:04] Not just one milk bar cake. She sent us each one. Me, you and Alise, we all got a milk bar cake. It was the best.

Sarah: [00:01:11] I would just like to say that I shared my milk bar cake with my children, my parents, and my grandmother. And so somebody nominate my butt for the Nobel peace prize. That's what I got to say about that. 

Beth: [00:01:22] I did not share it.

Sarah: [00:01:24] That was the right choice. That's okay. 

Beth: [00:01:26] Thank you.

Sarah: [00:01:28] It's November. So if you think it would be generous, it's fine.

Beth: [00:01:31] I have so few things in life right now that are just mine. That milk bar cake is going on the list.

Sarah: [00:01:36] So if you are looking to celebrate the fifth birthday with us, we would be so honored. If you would head on over to iTunes and leave us a review, it helps more people find the podcast and also helps drown out the people who are mad that Beth is no longer a Republican. Oh, it's fun

Beth: [00:01:52] Thank you so much.

Drown those people out. They not going to get over it anytime soon. It's okay. But it does, it helps other people find the show and I love reading them. They're always so generous and so fun to see what you guys connect with about the show and how you share it and what episodes mean a lot to you.

Sarah: [00:02:07] So we would love it. If you'd help us celebrate by leaving an iTunes review. 

Beth: [00:02:12] So speaking of community, spend some time with us tonight and with each other, we're going to be on Hot Mic. It's a free app. You download it. You put in the code Pantsuit. At 8:00 PM Eastern there, we will all be together watching whatever is happening in terms of results, chatting, supporting one another.

It's going to be a great way to spend you election evening. So we hope to see many 

Sarah: [00:02:34] Stay calm. I'm trying to find a wipe off board. I really feel like I need a wipe off board. Like, Ooh. That's how I like to channel my, not truly channel my inner Tim Russert like, I just need a good little handheld wipe off board.

I might come and go out and get one today since we're recording on Monday so that I'm fully prepared. 

Beth: [00:02:50] I have these maps of the electoral college that I'm going to use with the kids in our little group to talk about it earlier in the day. Maybe I'll laminate one of those.

Sarah: [00:02:59] There you go. Now you're thinking that's a good idea. I like that idea a lot 

Beth: [00:03:04] before we go full election here. Let's talk about COVID-19 so that's the less stressful topic. Sure. 

Sarah: [00:03:12] Uplifter. I mean, I just feel like everybody is so tightly wound right now, like between the pandemic between the approaching holidays and what that's going to look like during the pandemic, and the election.

I mean, my husband this morning was like, I just want to sleep for 48 hours. It's just, it's so much to ask us to carry and process and, um, face the anxiety of all these things coming to fruition at once. 

Beth: [00:03:42] It is a lot, the main thing that I want to say about what's happening with COVID-19 right now is that I think Europe has just found the approach that should be a roadmap for us. In the UK, in Germany and in France, the numbers are escalating so you do see some shutdown measures, but they're not total shutdown measures. They are measures that say, here's what we're prioritizing and they're prioritizing school. And people being able to shop and go to work every day. What they are de prioritizing is our ability to engage in leisure activities where it does seem like most of the spread is happening because you don't have the kind of protocols in place that you do at work and in school to keep it from spreading. 

So I just am really impressed with this.

Sarah: [00:04:33] I would say like social activities in particular, like bars, restaurants, social gatherings, and I know that's hard y'all I miss my friends too. You know, it was really nice to be out with people at a safe social distance of course, over Halloween, but I miss being able to not worry about that.

 I know we all do, but the idea that this is just an invention of the election as the president keeps perpetuating that complete and total lie is so deliberately ignorant of what the entire world is going through. And we can look at how other countries have approached this.

To fully assess how totally and completely short we fallen. I mean, I think it's not even Europe to watch the surge there, but did you see that statistic where it's like, if we had approached this like South Korea, we would be looking at 200 deaths instead of 200,000 deaths. 

Beth: [00:05:20] Oh, it's just, it's so frustrating. And I think it with restaurants, like there are ways to do all these things. I think our governor is right. He was asked last week about whether he's going to implement more restrictive measures because it's bad in Kentucky right now. And he said, we have the right guidance in place. We just need people to follow it.

I went shopping with a friend on Friday, which was the first time I'd really been out doing something that felt at all normal. So my friend is in my little bubble. We go to the stores. It was very easy to stay away from people and wear a mask and use hand sanitizer anytime we touched anything. It was very easy.

We had lunch at a restaurant. It felt very safe. We were far away from other human beings. We wear our masks whenever the staff was around, everything was really clean. Like we can do this. We just have to want to. 

Sarah: [00:06:12] Well, and I think it's clearly in my community spreading through social gatherings. It's not even restaurants, it's just, people are going to each other's houses and hanging out and having parties inside.

Luckily our community has, is attempting to continue to prioritize school. We were supposed to, there was a, you know, at first it was, we might be virtual this week. And then on Friday, both our County and city school systems made the call to continue to go in person because, you know, I, I think everyone realizes at this point that schools are not.

You know, they're not spreading it in school, but it gets to a point, if that's so widespread in your community, they don't have enough teachers. Like there's so many teachers either out sick or quarantined teachers on like their third or fourth round of quarantine, which with love that they have to deal with like, not enough substitutes or not enough bus drivers.

And so even if we're, you know, I think that's shutting down schools, the idea that it's just about, Oh, it's so ridiculous cause kids don't spread it. I agree, but that's not always the reason. They are shutting it down and to just it's infuriating as a mother who feels like I'm living on the precipice of like, are we going to get shut down?

They have to start making it a week to week decision as our numbers continue to climb, just because people don't want to do the most basic things. And I know like it's risk assessment. I just feel like. People are not only better at their individual risk assessment, but there's a lot of very selfish risk assessment going on. 

Either I've already had it. So what do I care or it's going to get, everybody's going to get it. So what do I care? And like, yeah, it might not affect your personal life, but you're, if you get it and that number keeps creeping up, it's certainly gonna affect mine and my kids. And that's just, what's so upsetting right now is the tunnel vision.

It also

Beth: [00:07:49] continues to sink in for me that that week to week mindset is what I find so stressful. I really enjoyed re-imagining Halloween once a decision was made about what we were going to do. I am really enjoying planning Thanksgiving because we've made a decision about what we're going to do. It is the.

Hanging out well, like I can roll with upsetting traditions all day long. It is the week to week what's going to happen next. Let me check blooms 600 times to see if the call has been rescheduled. Like it is the precariousness and the tumultuousness that is getting to me. 

Yeah. And 

Sarah: [00:08:24] I think that's true. Again, we have two massive situations where there's precarity. Nationwide, both the election and COVID, and then if you zoom in, depending on your region, you have procarity around police violence and continuing protest over deaths in Philadelphia. You have a hurricane season that just won't stop in Florida. You still have wildfires in the West. I mean, it's just, there's so much that we're being asked to deal with right now.

And I thought like, you know, I think there's a sense that we. What would it be like to live through history? And it's so hard to think about that without looking at it through the lens where we know the ending already. When we look back and we think, what would it have been like to live during the civil war or during the civil rights movement?

Like we know the ending and we forget that it's not just making the call of, are you going to do this thing or that thing. And what's the right thing to do. It's that you don't know the outcome. Like I try to remind myself that a lot with the declaration of independence, like they didn't know the outcome that could have easily had ended in death for treason.

And I think that the not knowing the precarity is what makes living through moments like that. So hard. And it's really difficult to understand and to empathize with if you. I already know the ending of whatever they were living through in previous moments in history. 

Beth: [00:09:52] I had a moment on Halloween when there was a really loud, like kind of vibrating boom that we could hear in my backyard. I guess it was fireworks somewhere, but it was loud. It was much louder than the usual fireworks. Really shook a couple of the kids up. And the rest of the night, I kept thinking about this article I read it's probably been more than a year ago, about a wedding in Syria that had been disrupted by a bomb.

And the article talked about how it's almost just the expectation of people in this particular community that their children won't live into their twenties because every day is riddled by violence and you're just waiting for the next bomb and that noise. That for a second created in me a fear that I almost never feel, highlighted for me that I almost never feel that kind of fear.

And my first instinct is about a noise like that to say, Oh, that's a firework. Whereas Jane ran up to me and said, is somebody shooting? It doesn't even occur to me to first believe someone could be shooting. You know, I have an innocuous explanation and that is uh, such a privilege and such an indicator of the safety that I live in.

I just had to stare at the fire for a while that evening. And I just thought about that couple in the article about the wedding in Syria and how extremely lucky I am and how this year really has worked on people like me, who never have a reason to be personally fearful. I don't know, it just has been sitting with me a lot.

I don't even know if that makes sense. It was such a symbol to me of like how blessed my life has been in so many ways and how fragile that is. 

Sarah: [00:11:48] Yeah. I think there's a sense that we're having to put so many of these experiences in this very complicated framework, a very paradoxical framework where we still have enormous privilege.

Where there is unrest and also still, um, enormous safety and stability, and both things can be true because we live in a big country and we have a decentralized system to a certain point. We're going to talk about this in the, when we talk about the election, but, you know, putting all those things together, or maybe the issue is not putting them together, but just letting them co-exist. Letting the moment where you feel enormous privilege and gratitude co-exist with the moment that you feel, maybe the very next moment that you feel enormous anxiety and fear. That's hard. 

That's really, really hard to let that complexity and that tension co-exist in a culture that tells us that everything is one way or the other, and everything can be solved with a purchase. And that, you know, we're on this very simple trajectory where there will, there, there is a good guy and a bad guy and a happy ending, or you know, where justice is served. I just think like we, we have this really useless social narrative about how life works and how useless it is is really, really becoming apparent.

Beth: [00:13:28] Well, while we're on subject of enormous danger, I want to express some, thanks to the people who serve all over the world doing scary, hard things that I don't think about every day. This came to mind today because of the rescue of an American hostage in Nigeria. Phillip Walton, and his family live in Niger.

And he was abducted. The reports that I've read do not indicate that his abduction was terror related. He was apparently asked for money. He offered up 40 American dollars and at that point was taken by a group of men. It is common practice however, for. Groups like that to sell American hostages to terrorist organizations.

And so there was this immediate sense of how can we get him back because if he is sold to Al-Qaeda or to ISIS, The options become much more limited. And so with the governments of Nigeria and Niger, the United States government worked a special operations team, went into a very dangerous mission and they were able to safely bring Phillip Walton back to his family.

And no American military personnel were injured. These missions have about a 30% success rate. And I was grateful that the ABC news article I was reading about this, talked about how the men and women in these special ops units, every time they have a task, they are putting someone else's life above their own.

And they do it anyway. They train and prepare for the opportunity to put someone else's life above their own. And it just really touched me. And I'm so glad that Phillip Walton is back with his family. And I'm so grateful for all of the stories like this that are untold and all the people whose names we can never know who do this kind of work.

Sarah: [00:15:26] All right, next up, we're going to talk about election day.

So before we get started, we wanted to share with you that we were interviewed by the New York times. Katie Cusumano interviewed us for her article on election stress disorder. We were so thrilled to be asked and we have the link in the show notes if you want to. Check that out. It's a really good guide for what we're about to talk about, which is how can we keep this show under control?

Beth: [00:16:03] So, Sarah, what are you going to do during most of the day tomorrow, before we get on Hot Mic, what's your election day gonna look like? 

Sarah: [00:16:10] Well, my kids will be home from school, so it'll be pretty busy. I would like to do some election day activities, which means I'm probably just going to steal your curriculum.

If you don't mind to share it with all of us, happy to do that. So that's what I'll be doing. And I, you know, lots of our listeners have created election day playlist on Spotify. So I'll probably be doing some walking, listening to some music. We'll put some of the links to those playlist in the show notes and you know, I'm just going to play it by ear there, there.

So, you know, the last two elections, I was on the ballot. So this will feel very, very different than the last two for me personally, because it was a weird time. Like I felt like I could, should be doing something, but I wasn't exactly sure what to do as a local candidate, because obviously there's no electioneering and it's not like I have this big voter turnout operation to run as a city commissioner candidate.

So I'm looking forward to at least not feeling the stresses, like anxiety of being on the ballot myself for the first time in four years. And. Being with my kids and probably checking the internet way more than I should. Let's just be honest, but doing my best to just stay present. 

Beth: [00:17:24] I am going to have kids, uh, in our, in our bubble over for pancakes in their PJ's. We're going to talk about voting. We're going to have an election. I'm creating a little poll book for them to sign in with their full names, and they're gonna vote on some things related to school. And we're going to talk about the electoral college a little bit, and then probably just let them play.

And then I have a long list of holiday related tasks for myself because what I. I know that I won't be able to focus enough to meaningfully work. I also know that if I have downtime, I will fill it with doom scrolling, and I do not want to do that. So I've got like fun, creative. But still check an item off my list, work to do tomorrow that will carry me into the evening. And I'm so glad that we have Hot Mic to look forward to. 

Sarah: [00:18:14] I mean, maybe I should just put up my 13 foot Christmas tree. That is an all day situation. It would most certainly keep my busy, I'll think about it. I did a bunch of Christmas stuff this weekend too. Cause I start putting it up as soon as Halloween is over after lecturing my eldest child and my husband who do not love this approach, that they're not putting all this stuff up. And so they don't get to decide. And that felt good. It does feel good to just do like creative or household things where you can see the result in front of you. You know what I mean? 

Beth: [00:18:45] Yes. I think that's key. I did a thing with my hands. I can see it here. It was a purposeful thing. 

Sarah: [00:18:51] Okay. So we'll be we'll. Beyond hot mic at eight o'clock, which is eight o'clock Eastern, which is when we expect to start seeing results. So what will you be watching for as the results roll in Florida, Florida foresty. That's kind of why when the wipe off board, just so I can write it like he did for all of you who weren't paying super close attention during the 2000 race.

This was a big moment when Tim Russert wrote Florida, Florida, Florida, on a little wipe off board to say like, this is the only state that matters. 

Beth: [00:19:18] I don't think it's the only state that matters, but it depends on how you look at it. It is the state that matters most, I think, for the president. And so if Florida were to have a decisive result, I would feel calmer about everything that might transpire.

Yeah. 

Sarah: [00:19:33] You mean a decisive result for Joe Biden, correct? 

Beth: [00:19:36] Yes. If there is a decisive vote for the president, I still think there are lots of avenues for the president to lose the election, but I think it gets very hard for him to win the election if he doesn't win Florida. So that would be a big moment of relief for me, I'm going to be watching Pennsylvania, but I don't expect to know anything real about Pennsylvania on election night.

The reason that I'm expecting to know something that could be meaningful about Florida is because they're already processing absentee ballots there and expect to have an announcement to make some time on it. 

Sarah: [00:20:10] Yeah, it seems like the focus on those Sunbelt States of Florida, Georgia, North Carolina, if those come out decisively for Joe Biden, then I don't see a path to reelection for the president. And I think that's why people are paying such close attention is that he has one very narrow path and Joe Biden has lots of different paths. And so, you know, we'll hear it. We'll see those come in and then we'll start to see the rust belt state results come in.

Although it sounds like Michigan and Minnesota in particular, don't expect to have. All the counting done with the polls closed, but then we'll, you know, then we'll just be rolling across the country to Arizona. I think everybody will be paying very close attention to Arizona. And then of course we have a lot of Senate races to watch too.

Beth: [00:20:55] So many Senate races that I'm really interested in, I'm really interested in what happens in the house. Most people think it's going to be a very tough night for the Republicans in the house, and I'm looking forward to seeing exactly how those breakdowns happen. And I wonder how much of that we'll know on election night.

I mean, it's almost like we haven't had election day. This time we've had election season. We probably don't have election night this time as much as we have election week. And I am really trying to prepare myself for the fact that. I know I want every vote to be counted. I want the results to be clean and clear and certified. And if I have to wait for that, that's okay. 

Sarah: [00:21:31] There was a, a great little analysis and Politico's playbook as we're recording on Monday, that was basically like coaches. Don't call games. Officials do and elections are the same way. This, all this coverage of president Trump basically admitting that he's not gonna, he's not going to concede, he's going to contest the election.

Um, Stephen Miller coming out and saying, they're going to try to steal the election by counting the votes is just, it's such hogwash election officials in each state certify the election. It doesn't really matter what he does. You know, like as far as. Certified election results. Now it certainly matters with regards to civil unrest.

And I think that everyone's anxiety is well-placed to a certain extent because we know that people feed off him. We know, you know, you and I were talking about it, that there's groups of people who just wait for uncertainty, wait for moments where the leader of our country is not trying to enforce a sense of stability and a sense of nonviolence honestly, and they're waiting to exploit those moments. 

And so I, you know, I think I don't want to imply that like the fear that we all feel in the face of Trump trains shutting down bridges or Trump trains coming and trying to run off Joe Biden's election bus off the road. Like, I think that's what place I just it's really hard because I think there's this balance between recognizing and that that is intimidation, that it is meant to enforce fear. 

And also acknowledging that the fear is well-placed because we don't have national leadership that's trying to quell that. Now we have state and local officials to a certain extent, trying to control that and protect people. And I believe so many people across the country are going to step up and be incredibly brave.

I think that we are going to see a lot of citizenship and its fullest expression from people voting, even though they feel intimidated to election officials standing up to intimidation. But I just think part of the fear and anxiety is because we know we won't have anyone at the top really trying to enforce and support our systems or stability in the face of. Especially in the face of any close results. 

Beth: [00:23:51] And looking forward to talking with you about this thought that I'm having about affiliation. I have two conflicting thoughts about the idea of affiliation during this election. On one hand, I think a lot of our work has been about saying friends. Let's not put all of our identities in a political party.

That is not helpful to our relationships or our personal well-being. And it's certainly not helpful to our politics. It's fine to be part of one, but let's not put all of our identity eggs in that basket. And I've. Talked with you lately and kind of given you a hard time about how there's such a strong sense of affiliation around sort of what I call the Democrats cool kids club.

 Kind of the, we've got all the great celebrities and we have the better musicians and we have Michelle Obama and don't you want to be part of our thing and how I don't love that and there's a part of me that actively kind of resist it. On the other hand, when I look at people about to run a bus off the road, In vehicles and I have a personal sense of how dangerous driving is from my history.

It hits me in a very hard way. I think like who's comfortable being affiliated with us. Who is comfortable. Having this attachment to being part of a club where the tactics are so dangerous and so aggressive. And so that's kind of the, the big group side of it. And then on the personal side, the one thing I'm certain about.

In terms of election night is that many of us are going to feel a sense of disconnection from other people because this election is not going to be 300 million to zero. And so you're going to watch the maps and your state's gonna go for Trump or your congressional district or your County, or, uh, the person you share a roof with, or a last name with, or a bed with.

And there is a sense of disconnection in that, but I really get. I've been thinking about it as though if, if a relationship is kind of made of a constellation and each star is a point of connection, we feel with another person, I get that that star can be dimmed when you vote differently, especially in this election where a lot of what we're voting about is just what we view as a fundamental sense of what is decent and acceptable.

 And I think that that happens for people who feel very differently than I do. I mean, that's why all those people write reviews about being mad, that I'm not a Republican because they feel they're looking for that star to exist. And it dims when they listen to me. 

And that, that hurts. There is a sense of real pain in that light being dimmed, just like there's a real sense of joy for those of you who've written to us to say my father-in-law voted for Biden because he knew how much it mattered to me. No. When somebody says, I voted for you, not for me, that star, burns a lot brighter.

And, um, that's wonderful. And hearing that probably makes it hurt a lot more. If you live with someone who said, I voted for me and you can vote for you and it's our business, you know, so. I'm just kind of wrestling with what is a healthy sphere for a sense of political affiliation, because I very well understand how hard it is to be distanced from people you love when you don't share that one particular star.

And then I look at the group level and I don't want to be in the cool kids club, but I also am horrified that people are comfortable with the way trump's supporters are reacting. And I don't want to tag every Trump supporter with the behavior of a few, but my mind makes that bridge. You know what I mean.

Sarah: [00:27:48] Well, you know, in a weird way, I think the cool kids club, which I'm happy to be a member of happy to be a member of is the flip side of that coin.

And they are related because what I hear at those rallies and in the Trump train and the ability to filter and disconnect and cut off from your fellow citizens that you would be willing to engage in violence or intimidation techniques like that. To me is just it's there is such a steady strain of resentment and anger.

There's such an it's. I don't even want to call it an undercurrent. It's a big old tidal wave of resentment and anger. And to add onto that, With your own family member or partners or community members to see that there, like you said, that, that they would identify with that anger and resentment, you know, it really is.

It's horrifying and whatever the results are tomorrow, we have seen so much work to do, because I don't know how to chip away how to begin chipping away at that resentment. I mean, I guess I do. I think it's, it's. Individual influence and connection. And that's a really long game, or I think it's just huge systematic change with income inequality, which is a big game.

I thought we got a lot of games to play, I guess is what I'm saying, because you know, it's just, it's so palpable that sense of you think what I am is a joke and he doesn't, and he makes a joke of you. And I love that. And it makes me so sad. It makes me so sad that that's the best we can offer our fellow citizens who feel so turned off and left behind and angry at their status in our country.

Even though I think their status is not what they think it is, even though, you know why I say I'm, I'm happy to participate in the cool kids club is because to me it feels joyful. It never feels exclusionary, but I obviously it does not feel that way to other people, I 

Beth: [00:30:11] guess one step in working on that resentment that is within my control right now is to not adopt it myself. And I struggle with that. I think that's hard. I struggle with that as a person. So if a star dims for me with someone because of politics in every single relationship in my life, I got lots of other stars now. That keep me with that person. And that's just not true for everybody. But knowing that it's true for me is a signal that it is my work to keep talking about this stuff.

And, and that's something I want to share with all of you. Who've written to us about this too. I think it is my work. To tell people that I don't feel good about their support for the president or their support for other candidates. I think it's important to say, yeah, you're entitled to vote how you want to, and I'm entitled to be disappointed by that or to feel a little hurt by that or for it to sting a little bit. 

And I think we just keep having those conversations and doing our best, no matter what the results are, because no matter what the results are or whenever they come or however they come and you say this all the time. So succinctly and well, Sarah somewhat is going to caricature every single thing that happens from here on out, someone is going to feel pissed off about it. 

You could have every single person who I want to win an election could win, and it would matter a lot, but it also wouldn't change this light cultural imbalance that we're dealing with. And so all of that work of don't adopt the resentment and keep showing up for people where you can, where you feel safe and respected within a relationship is going to continue to matter. And it might matter even more, frankly, if Donald Trump is not the president, because an undoing is usually much harder than the doing. 

Sarah: [00:32:14] And I am hopeful because what I feel profoundly, especially when I look at the turnout numbers, we are currently watching, rolling across the country. When you have more people in Texas who have early voted than voted at all in 2016. To me that shows a country that is putting effort into being louder than the loudest voices in the room. I think one of the most painful consequences of anger and resentment in our processes is cynicism, and it's hard to be cynical when you watch how many people are turning out in waiting in line and dedicating themselves to voting.

And that's what I'll be watching today. On election day, as this episode comes out is how those numbers continue to grow on election day itself. And what this turnout is actually going to be how high it's going to be, because I think people recognize like it's time to do the work.

 And I think that you see that not just in the election turn out numbers, but you see that in the ballot initiatives, you see that in Senate campaigns, you see that in the shifting politics of States like Georgia and Texas and Arizona, you see that in generational change. With huge numbers of gen Z and millennials turning out to vote and saying like, this is my country.

And I want these systems to look differently and I'm ready to work for it. Like that is incredibly hopeful to me. And I think that that will continue that whatever the results are, I'm pretty confident. That America is not just going to check back out of politics. Like I think we realize, and we look around because of the pandemic and because of the racial reckoning and because of economic insecurity that we have a lot of work to do, we have so much work to do, you know, on the individual level and the community level, state level, national level, of course, in global level.

And, you know, I wonder if some of our. Anxiety, especially I think for older people who are used to election night being the culmination and the sense of like, yes, we want to get through election night, but that's just the beginning. That's just the beginning of the work we have to do. And I know we're all tired and I know we're all stressed and anxious and I do want to get through election night and I do want to have certified relations and election results, but I am both you know, tired and hopeful when I think of everything else that faces us long after Tuesday, November 3rd to 2020. 

Beth: [00:35:10] So the one thing I'm confident about going in is that not every race is going to go the way I would like it to. And I keep thinking about that. I do have this daily practice of staring down another four years of a Donald Trump administration just to get myself kind of steeled for it.

But I think about Senate races too. You know, what if Mitch McConnell is reelected as the polls suggest he will be, I maintain hope, but what if that happens? And I would love for my Congressman to lose. He probably won't, but I maintain hope. So where there will be disappointment and there will be. I keep remembering that every single person who ran this time made a difference in some way, some people made a really positive difference and some people made a really negative difference.

It also matters even if every one of them is defeated. It matters that some QAnon folks ran for Congress. That tells us that there's a lot of work to do, but also like all of these ballot initiatives, the horrible ones matter and the wonderful ones that won't pass matter, because they're getting that information in front of people and creating some new conversations.

I think it creates conversation in Kentucky. Our ballot was bananas when you flipped our ballot over the length of the information about the ballot initiatives was stunning. This time it honestly looked like the fine print on an electronics purchase. And I think that that's a conversation we've got to keep having as a state that's indirect response to the ballot initiatives previously looking like, do you like puppies?

And the state Supreme court saying, that's not going to be enough information for voters, but this was clearly too much information for voters. If you didn't go in understanding what those amendments were you a, we're probably not going to read all of the language there and I'm not sure you could have followed it without a law degree if you did.

And that's a problem. So. There's still like some things to be enormously grateful for in this cycle. And a lot of things that made a dent one way or another, that indicate there's so much more work to do whatever the outcomes are. I wonder Sarah, what, some of the things that, especially thinking back to the primary, stick out to you as moments of like, I'm really glad that this conversation happened.

Sarah: [00:37:27] Well, I'm eternally grateful to Andrew Yang for pushing the conversation around universal basic income forward like I maintain a couple of decades and the course of a year, I think that he had a powerful impact on people's understanding of universal basic income. I think Andrew Yang is to thank them for the fact that we all got checks with COVID relief. Honestly, I think he did the work out there explaining that issue to people and I'm enormously grateful for that. 

Beth: [00:37:57] I'm going to say a bizarre one. I, I am grateful for the people who flirted with an independent run. I'm grateful for the Howard Schultz idea and for the Justin Amash, 10 seconds of potentially running.

I'm grateful for Bill Weld and Joe Walsh's significant efforts to try to win the Republican nomination. Again, I think all of that matters. I think the Howard Schultz example particularly matters because a whole bunch of things swirled around him that we really never had time to think about. But there's someone, I guess, similar to mayor Bloomberg, although different scale who had a lot of resources and said, I'm going to test an idea and it showed that one money alone doesn't get it done.

 It showed too that while a lot of people say they want what Howard Schultz was offering, not enough people want it who are willing to act on it yet for that to happen. You know, people say to me all the time, I just want a new party to spring up. And I feel like a new party doesn't just spring out.

You know, a lot of work is being done, but it takes years and years and years as well, established as libertarians are, we are far away from libertarians being a real significant force in our politics. We're closer than we used to be. And that's thanks in large part to people like Justin Amash, but we're not there yet.

I think it was a big deal that he was so transparent about the fact that he was leaving the race in part, because of his health. There are just a lot of things there that sit well with me. And that I think mattered even though I would not have voted for him for President. 

Sarah: [00:39:48] I'm also very grateful for the money that Bloomberg is pouring into the race right now for, for what it's worth.

I'm also grateful for. Continued diversity in our candidates in particular, I think Senator Warren, Senator Gillibrand, Senator Harris, you know, they brought more focus and attention. You know, Senator Warren, especially what she knows on our show does such amazing work, talking about childcare and how that's a part of our economy.

And there's a crisis right now that, and it's a problem that needs to be solved. Senator Gillibrand and her incredible work. On sexual assault in the military and bringing just conversations that were used to be treated as niche, just like those candidates used to be treated to as niche. I think this is true of Julian Castro in issues of immigration. 

Um, Cory Booker and Pete Buttigieg, and issues of faith inside the democratic party. I just, I, it felt like the fullest expression of what we always say, which when we have more voices at the table, we get a better. Picture of what's important to Americans, what problems we really need to solve and what solutions are available to us.

And so that process, and I think you, I, I don't think that ended with the democratic primary. I think that you see that playing out and local races and house races across the country, and you see attention being paid to issues of importance to those communities instead of just two-dimensional culture Wars.

Beth: [00:41:18] I'm grateful that I got an opportunity to experience and senator Warren's work in a different way and really read through those plans and get a more coherent understanding of her big picture philosophy. Because I think her big picture philosophy is going to continue to matter a lot. And it should. I love that she's out there generating ideas.

I'm grateful that multiple women ran. And so hopefully that's just the new normal, multiple women running multiple people of color running. I'm grateful that the libertarians are running a woman. I don't want anyone to vote for her this time, but I'm grateful that we have a picture of a system that looks a little bit more like America looks.

And I think that matters a lot, certainly is going to matter for our kids that this first election that they'll remember had numerous. People who weren't just white men running. I think it's a really big deal. This was true in 2018, but the women that we have been privileged to know personally, who are running for office have just made a tremendous difference in their jurisdictions, in my understanding of how politics works.

And so whether they win or lose. I appreciate them making the effort and putting their families through what they've put their families through and putting themselves through it. It's hard and they've done it. And again, win or lose. A lot of these women are giving incumbents in particular, the fight of their lives, and that will have long lasting ramifications.

Sarah: [00:42:51] The final piece of 2020, that as we look back even in the face of the uncertainty that lies in front of us, that gives me enormous hope is just the way it feels like we've re-imagined elections. You know, the Iowa caucus was not a fun thing to live through, but it feels like it shook loose a lot of ideas about primaries and States and even just caucuses, whether you're an hour anywhere else that I think was really important, valuable.

 I think the fact that we have shifted to an election season and we're seeing massive turnout when people have the flexibility to vote by mail, to vote early, to vote in a drive through Texas, which was a good idea. Good idea. Officials in Harris County. I think that to me feels. It's like you said, like it's hard to undo something and it's been stressful and it's been so hard, but what we've done in America over these last few months is re-imagine what elections can look like in our country.

Something that I'm not sure, I thought I would ever see in my lifetime. And I know that some of that came from enormous stress, um, from a threat of ahistorical norm shredding, terrible precedent, but it still feels positive to me. It still feels that we have all got to see what this would look like if we did it differently, we got to do it differently this time.

And I love that and I want to keep voting like this. I think it's incredibly powerful and. Enormously empowering. And I'm so, you know, I think the narrative is hasn't this been a terrible experience for first-time voters and I'm not sure. I think that's true. 

I'm excited for all these young people who are watching votes come in from across the country, from people who chose to wait in line for hours who voted early, who voted by mail, who had options and flexibility and a country as big and complex as ours. And they're seeing something they won't know any different hopefully. And I think that's really powerful and something that 2020 has given us that is for the good 

Beth: [00:45:16] and I'm grateful for and proud of all of you who maybe for the first time or the 10th time really used your voice in this election. And that, that looks like those of you who are working the polls and who have volunteered with campaigns, to those of you who have quietly, but persistently spoken to people in your lives about how you feel and have the courage to throw up your Facebook filter for a candidate, or put a sign in your yard or mail a postcard, whatever you did.

I feel like all of you really dug in to do your work and. That makes me feel so optimistic about whatever comes next. Truly.

Sarah: [00:46:09] Beth, how was your Halloween? 

Beth: [00:46:12] You know, it went really well. It was really lovely. It was a lot of work. But we pulled off our scavenger hunt, my friend, Jen, who's a professional wedding photographer took amazing pictures. So it is memorialized well, I heard lots of best Halloween ever from the kiddos. And so I was able to step back and call it good. How about you? 

Sarah: [00:46:33] Yeah, it was really fun. I, uh, was transformed by our children's and youth minister. She came over and did my makeup. I felt very good as an Enneagram one, because I just sensed in her that she would want to do this. Like it's, it's not like she's like, does this on the side and advertise it.

I literally went up to her and was like, what'd you want me to do my makeup for Halloween? And she was like, yes. And she did a phenomenal job. It was so fun. 

Beth: [00:46:57] We were transformed. You looked amazing. 

Sarah: [00:46:59] It was really awesome. I highly recommend green skin. It's it's fun. And, you know, we had a, it was definitely more low key. There were not as many trick-or-treaters for sure, but my kids still had a really good time and got to go to their grandparents' house and around our neighborhood and we had a little parade and so okay. It's like there were fewer trick-or-treaters and so my kids candy haul was stupid. Cause people were like, Oh, here.

And when like dump half the bag out, I was like, no, no, no. Okay. Thank you for that. The haul was intense because there were fewer tricker treaters, but we had a really good time. I'm super jealous of the professional photography and I'm now plotting to do that. If I can convince my 11 year old to do a family costume one more time. Cause I take a picture every year, but Oh, these are so good. 

Beth: [00:47:45] Yeah, she did an awesome job. And I did think like this picture is going to look so much better than the one I have every year. 

I 

Sarah: [00:47:52] did have another, I think I've had a breakthrough about Halloween costumes now. I have always felt pretty strongly that. Current news events of any kind do not belong as Halloween costumes, especially if there was a loss of life. I just don't like it. And I've never really been able to articulate why I don't like it, except for, I just think it's mean, but I had some friends dress up is even further back in the seventies and sixties, historical events, like in a jokey way where people died and.

I think I finally had a little aha moment about why that bothers me so much is because, you know, If you're a longtime listener of the show, or really even a recent listener of the show, you will know, like I'm a, I'm a history buff. History is my thing. I love it. And I think the only way to learn from history is to be able to empathize with the people who lived through it and to think, what would I like?

What would it have been like to be a human being? Even at times it's, you know, it's, we don't really have a frame of reference for that, you know, like the middle ages or the, during the black plague or whatever, like. It's it's hard. I'm not saying it's not hard and there's a limit to how much we can really empathize with people whose worlds were so different than ours.

But when we turn those moments into Halloween costumes, they just become characatures in a way that I feel like closes off all empathy. And I really don't like that. I really. I really don't like that. I feel like our job is to constantly interrogate history and to think about the human beings who lived through those moments.

And when we just dress up at them, it's reduced them down to two dimensional characters or two dimensional moments or worse, a joke. It just really upsets me. And I feel a little bit like I'm being Debbie downer about this, but not that badly because I was being a Debbie downer about the pimps and hoes parties they used to throw when we were in college. And I feel real good about not participating in those right now.  

Beth: [00:49:49] I think this is a very tricky subject. I like your insight very much about cutting off empathy. I'm going to think about that for a while. It dovetails with something that I thought a lot about a couple of years ago when there was this discussion about Moana costumes and cultural appropriation and my sense of it, which is always developing because I genuinely care about how other people will perceive our choices and photographs.

 And not because I'm trying to win the Woke awards, but because I care about people. Again, I like to have empathy in the present too. My sense of it is that a costume can be worn in a celebratory way or a derogatory way. And I think that if a person sees the costume and see something of themselves in it and feel celebrated.

I think that's probably a green light. Yep. If there's even a chance that they feel not celebrated by it, whether that's your intention or not, then that's a problem. And so I feel like that's maybe a good rubric to add in that empathy component. How much can I understand? And look, I also think it's good if the, if there's something questionable, just ask because nothing is lost if you have to come up with a new costume idea. 

Sarah: [00:51:07] Right. Right. I mean, I think I will say, let me clarify. I'm largely talking about adult costumes because adults are, I feel like there's just this sense in teenagers like that they need to be edgy.

I told Nicholas this too. Like, I don't remember that growing up. I don't remember this sense that like your Halloween costume had to be the most clever commentary, you know? Like, why did we decide that was a thing? Is it because it became so performative for social media? Like, I don't know, but I don't dig that trend.

I mean, kids dressing up as historical figures is like a whole other ball game. And it's like you said, like that is celebratory. That is that's, helped to me. That's helping kids empathize. That's letting them literally put on the clothes assembly and saying like, lit get it. Like they were a person just like you.

They're not just a picture in a book. They were just like, they were a little girl, just like you one day. Like to me, that's teaching empathy that has the power to help kids step into those roles and understand that historical figures were real people. It's just the, you know, the adults trying to you know, who can spark the biggest controversy with their Halloween costumes.

I just really want to take a kind of historical moment and be like, how's that working for us guys, everybody happy with that? I feel like we're just growing in leaps and bounds because of our controversial Halloween costumes. Like we're all just learning so much about each other and gaining such great societal insight.

I don't really think so. 

Beth: [00:52:31] I struggle a little bit here to have empathy for people who feel like they need to have an edgy Halloween costume too, because my prism is always does this work as a family costume? Like I don't have to go to adult parties where anyone has that expectation of me. So there's the limitation on my perspective for sure.

And I get that Halloween is supposed to be like fun and we blow off some steam and maybe some steam is blown off in some of those edgy Halloween costumes. Um, at the same time, I go back to that advice that I referenced all the time, where I heard a preacher once say, before you marry someone, make sure the two of you can laugh together often and not at somebody else's expense.

Right. And I just think Halloween fun shouldn't happen at somebody else's expense. I feel the same way about people who do go too far with being scary because that comes at someone's expense. At some point, honestly, just bear with me, everybody don't throw tomatoes at me. I feel this way about fireworks.

I'm starting to feel it, that comes that fun for me and others comes too much at the expense of somebody else. And I just don't want that. 

Sarah: [00:53:36] Well, it is even the Halloween costumes. It's like, yeah, if you're dressing up at a ticketed event where people are signing up for that experience, like go forth and prosper. You know, but like to lurk out in the general public, waiting to terrify. Yeah, that's problematic. I get what you're saying, but to me, like, even when I've gone to those Halloween parties, the best costumes, usually the ones that win the ones that everybody love, aren't the most controversial. They're the most clever without being controversial, that's much harder to do.

You know, it's much harder to be clever and funny and have a, like, A common thread that everybody gets and loves. And because they see it, they see something new, you know, it's not hard to be just incendiary. Ask fricking Sean Hannity. Like, you know what I mean? Like it's just that's to me, that's like, it's the lowest form of humor.

It's the lowest form of commentary because it's not difficult. 

Beth: [00:54:31] No, I agree. There are ways to be really edgy and funny without you know, taking a shot at somebody else or taking a shot at something that you just don't know, what kind of life experience it's going to call up for someone. And a lot of that historical humor could call up some painful stuff for somebody else. And why what's the point of that? Right? 

Sarah: [00:54:57] Right. Well, that's where I am. I'm probably aging out of adult, Halloween parties, especially since I don't really drink, but I do love costumes and I do love fun. And to me, I can't believe I said that like that. I do love fun, everybody. Um, but I guess once you like have an intense analysis of Halloween costumes, it's probably a good thing to remind everyone of, you know, for my family.

It's like, there's just so many fantastical options. There are so many Halloween costumes, like from entire universe. Theres Star Wars. Lord of the rings, Harry Potter, you name it like Marvel. There's so many fun, great Disney options that we have so much fun as a family dressing up. And I do love that. I do think it is really fun to step out of yourself and put on a costume and, you know, because of the makeup and the wig I had on, I mean, I was walking by people who know me well, who did not recognize me.

And there is just like an utter delight in that in a way. So I get it. And I'm listen. I love Halloween is literally one of my favorite holidays. I just wish we could abandoned the like controversial Halloween costumes and the slutty ones for what it's worth. 

Beth: [00:56:05] Yeah. I want the slutty ones to go for sure. I hate just walking through a store and my kids asking me, like, why is that nurse looking like that?

Like, good question.

Sarah: [00:56:15] Don't like that. I do think it's funny cause I really don't. I hope nobody buys them. I do think it's that funny? That one company, every year that's like comes up with the dumbest thing to make sexy, like it'll be like sexy absentee ballot, you know, for whatever the thing is that year, they just throw a sexy in front of it.

I do find that it is slightly entertaining. I'm not gonna lie. 

Beth: [00:56:35] So what has been your favorite family costume so far? 

Sarah: [00:56:38] Well, this was good. Guardians of the galaxy was really good. You know, we are limited. I haven't got, I've got a lot of boys, so I can't have ensembles that have more than one girl. Usually my, probably my favorite year was Mario.

When my husband was King Koopa, Felix was a baby and he was Toad and Griffin and Amos were Mario and Luigi. And I was, um, the princess. It was awesome. It was a really good year. 

Beth: [00:57:04] That you had, it's such a good costume. You know, we were looking at pictures over the weekend and Chad said, and I think I agree with him the year that our girls were Shopkins.

So Jane and Ellen went through a hardcore Shopkin phase. If you don't know what I'm talking about good for you. The Shopkins are teeny tiny little figurines of like celery and donuts. And so Jane and Ellen, we got like big, just hang over your body. We got a chocolate chip cookie and a donut, and we put them in matching little sweatsuits underneath those.

And I found the, the cookie and the doughnut Shopkins and hot glued on eyes and stuff to make them look just like the Shopkins. And then Chad and I got chef's coats and hats, and it was like two chefs and a cookie and a donut. And we just walked around and they're just, it's adorable. The girls were at such a perfect age.

They had a blast. The costumes were so easy to run around in and lots of fun. So that was probably our best year. 

Sarah: [00:58:06] Yeah, it's I love the Halloween costumes, the family costumes, and I think we're sadly rapidly approaching the end. I mean, this year it felt really, I felt really strongly that like Griffin and Amos, they needed to be with their friends trick or treating instead of with us.

And we like try to coordinate and it was a little late. So I think we're going to be a little more coordinated, like where they can be with their friends, especially Griffin. I mean, he's 11 and so. I think I'm thinking I can maybe get one more year and we've never done just like classic monsters, like Frankenstein and Dracula and mummies.

And I'm hoping maybe we could do one more like that, let them go to go trick or treat on their own. And that way their, their costumes would make sense separate for the rest of us. But I do. It's been so much fun. I've loved it so much. And Felix, Oh my God. He was so hyped up all day, Saturday, just so ready.

So excited. So excited to see all the family members in the costume. Like it's real. There's really nothing like it when your kid is like, everyone is participating in this. It's so great. 

Beth: [00:59:08] Well, we hope that you all enjoyed your Halloweens. One more quick thing before we head out for today. If you'd like to do something that feels purposeful and contributory, I would love to extend an invitation to you for an event that I'm going to be part of November 18th.

 Ohio justice and policy center is a non-profit that I chair the board for. It does criminal justice reform work, direct representation of incarcerated people, of people who've been over sentenced, of people who have been victims of human trafficking. It's such a good organization. We are hosting a discussion of race and justice and the guest speaker will be Dr. Yusef Salaam, who is one of the exonerated central park five and an author and poet and speaker. So you do not want to miss it. And this is a great way to support an organization doing very important work in the world. So I'll put the link in the show notes, if you would like to buy a ticket and come hang out with me and OJPC on zoom later this month. 

So we're going to have the best selection week available to us. We'll be here on Friday. We'll be on The Nuanced Life on Wednesday. We'll be on hot mic tonight. Sarah will be on Instagram in the mornings. I'll be on Twitter and Patreon. We're here for you. Take care of each other and yourselves. Keep it nuanced, y'all.

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