Reflecting on the Presidential Election Results

Reflecting+on+the+Presidential+Election+Results.jpg

Topics Discussed:

  • Covid-19 Update & Potential Vaccine

  • Election Results & Lawsuits

  • Moment of Hope: Dave Chappelle

  • Our Reflections on the Election

  • Outside of Politics

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Episode Resources

Transcript

Beth: [00:00:00] I'm tired of people saying that even basic civility is unavailable because of this. We have a leader who I think can restore some of that opportunity to have different ideas at the table and be enriched by it. So when I think about how do I want to feel over the next four years, I don't want to spend a second being a thumbs down or thumbs up commentator.

I want to think about how I can contribute to problem solving cause we got a big inbox of problems in front of us.

Sarah: [00:00:35] This is Sarah 

Beth: [00:00:36] and Beth. 

Sarah: [00:00:37] You're listening to Pantsuit Politics, 

Beth: [00:00:39] the home of grace-filled political conversations.

Hello everyone. And welcome to Pantsuit Politics as we turn the page on the 2020 election and start to look into the next chapter of American history, which we'll have lots to say about on today's episode. Quick housekeeping notes before we get started. 

Number one, we would certainly appreciate if you took a moment in the Apple podcast player to rate and review our show. It helps more people find us. It gives us strength and encouragement to continue on, and we really appreciate it.

 Secondly, secondly, we had such a lovely time with you all lamenting the waiting time that accompanied network's decisions to call the race and shared a lot of funny tik toks and  memes and gifs, and it broke our direct messages on Instagram.

They're broken. You are welcome to DM us anytime for any reason. And we encourage you to do so. And also if you want to be sure that we have read it and that we have an opportunity to respond to you, you want to be sure that your message is not locked in requests that we are not able to get to because somehow we've broken our DMS.

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Sarah: [00:02:24] Yes. I mean, listen, a broken dm was worth the sacrifice for winning. I mean, I feel like I just have the minute in Hamilton where they go, we won, we won. We like that just is ringing in my ears that we now have a president elect, Joe Biden and a female vice-president elect Kamala Harris. So, you know, That was a small sacrifice the Pantsuit Politics community conveyed.

 Now we're going to roll through some kind of crappy news before we just dive right into the, uh, warm waters of celebration. But we just wanted to recognize before we do that, that COVID continues to rage across the country. We have five days in a row of new COVID cases, over 100,000, when new cases in France, Russia, Japan, and UK, it's across the globe, not just in our country.

And you know, COVID, doesn't care about the election results either way, honestly, and that's really hard and we have to keep our eye on that no matter how much we all like to turn away. 

Beth: [00:03:34] It truly looks in the data like Americans are bored with us, and that is why we're seeing cases rise everywhere. And so we're going to talk at the end about the situation with school and our kids, but please, please, again, wash your hands, wear your mask socially distance.

Don't go to large gatherings. We can do this, but we are coming into a really critical time period. This winter could be just brutal and every expert thinks it's going to be. So please don't give up on this. Now, the good news is that Pfizer has announced its vaccine trial concluded with 90% effectiveness.

That is much higher than most people expected it to be. It is very exciting. We also have a long road ahead. So the next step would be for Pfizer to secure emergency authorization from the FDA to use the vaccine, but they have to show two months of safety data and they will have enough doses by the end of the year, according to the New York times to administer vaccines to 15 to 20 million people, there are 300 million of us in the United States.

That's not going to get it done. 11 other vaccines are in late stage trials so this is encouraging. Some of those vaccines use really similar technology. Pfizer's is a two dose vaccine, and Pfizer did this on its own. It was apolitical and ever since in every sense, it was not part of operation warp speed.

They did not take federal money for this research and development. And so I think we can have confidence in the results here, but also the results are pretty high level and scientists have a lot of questions. So hurray for momentum, and also an understanding that we're still going to be largely responsible for the health and safety of our communities without a vaccine for quite some time.

Sarah: [00:05:28] Okay. Let's move on and get part of this story about the election out of the way. It's not the full story. I refuse to let it be the full story, but it is important to note that president Trump has not offered a concession. We have a few Republican party leaders, Senator Mitt Romney, Senator Lisa Murkowski, former president George W Bush congratulating, Joe Biden on his win.

 But other Republicans, including Lindsey Graham and Ted Cruz saying that there are irregularities and that there is evidence of fraud. And that president Trump deserves to really exercise all his legal rights. There are narratives all over social media that the election was fraudulent.

This is all chatter and no reality. I cannot emphasize that enough. Beth, you went through the many lawsuits the Trump campaign has filed. And what was your conclusion from going through all those election lawsuits? 

Beth: [00:06:30] Be cool, everybody. So. These lawsuits, come on a few themes. One theme is we weren't allowed to observe the counting process closely enough. Some of those lawsuits settled, there was an agreement reach. Some of them, the Trump campaign got a court to say, yeah, you need to let them more of them in. Most of them were dismissed. This is my favorite one because the suit where they go into court and they're complaining, I think this is in Philadelphia.

They're complaining that they're not getting to observe. And then Trump's lawyers admit that there was a non zero number of people from their campaign observing the counting process. Non-zero and the judge said, well, then what exactly is your problem? But all of those lawsuits about observation, first of all, that's important.

I want people from both parties observing the counting. I do not believe there has been fraud, but I think those processes are important and should be upheld. So those are about result. Those are about process and the biggest result if Trump won every one of those lawsuits, it would just be a delay.

You would have to slow the process down to reorient the room for greater observation, to make sure that CDC guidelines are being upheld so that people aren't at COVID risk through the counting process. You know, there are a lot of factors, but it's just slowing it down. Another category of lawsuit that has been filed, whether you're talking about this sort of Sharpie Gate idea in Arizona, or this woman in Nevada who says that the signature authentication allowed someone to steal her mail in ballot.

Those suits are going into court and complaining that in some way fraud has been perpetrated and courts in those suits are saying, then show us the evidence, but we're not seeing any evidence right now. You have only offered speculation. Come back if you have evidence, but you don't. And the woman in Nevada who says that her ballot was stolen was given the opportunity to cancel that mail in ballot and vote again if she would sign an affidavit saying her mail-in ballot had been stolen and she would not sign the affidavit. 

So let's stay focused on reality. Also in Nevada, the Trump campaign has said 3000, no, 9,000 people who are not in Nevada voted in this election. Well, that list of people who are not in Nevada includes students, it includes military families.

It includes people who are absolutely Nevada citizens who just were not in Nevada this time. So that's much ado about nothing. Lots of chatter about dead people, but not a lot of actual lawsuits about dead people at this point, we may see a new suits today on Monday as we're recording. 

Other big category of suit is a dispute about what ballots are counted by certain deadlines. So if ballots were received after the polls closed on election day, should they be counted or not? And we have a variety of lawsuits going on about that. The most significant in Pennsylvania. And what you should know is that those ballots that arrived after that end of election day period, have been segregated by order of the Supreme court.

And I believe a state court in Pennsylvania as well. And so it is possible that those ballots may ultimately not be counted, which I think is a real shame. It is also true that those ballots have been segregated. And so people who have forecasted the win for Biden in Pennsylvania have factored those ballots into thier analysis. 

And then you're going to hear Rudy Giuliani and Eric Trump and Don Jr. talking about dead people voting and all kinds of things. Again, courts are open to those lawsuits if there is evidence. As we sit here, 11:36 AM Eastern time on Monday morning. We're not seeing those lawsuits. I just think it's important to let this play out.

Elections are hard. Courts have to be involved to some extent. There are lessons that can be learned on how we administer elections, but it is highly unlikely that any of these lawsuits, even if they want it outright would involve enough ballots to change the result. 

Sarah: [00:10:45] I've gone through a range of emotions on this issue really only in the first four hours of today. I woke up reading about Emily Murphy at the government services administration. I think that's the name, refusing to sign the paperwork to allow the release of taxpayer funds for the transition and office space. And I got real angry. I still plan to call my senators and representatives today and tell them that I expect them to acknowledge our electoral process and acknowledge and congratulate Joe Biden on his win.

But, you know, I got really worked up about it and I thought like, We need a peaceful, not just a peaceful, but like a quick and efficient transition because we have so many problems, but then, you know, I read some more reporting, realized that like, this is just, this is political manipulation. This is how can we slow his momentum down in any way that we can and create some power for ourselves, everyone in the Trump administration, except for Donald Trump himself and most certainly everyone in the United States sentence understands that this is over.

 I don't care what they say on Fox news. They know it's over. And as far as you know, all of us talking and living with people in our lives who, you know, can not see the political manipulation behind the language and believe people and pundents and conservative talk show hosts or whoever they're following on Parlor now, because apparently everybody's moved over to Parlor and that tells them that the election was stolen.

I think that the first thing I thought is, you know, I need to give these people a little bit of grace and a little bit of space because the truth is I knew it was over in 2016 and I couldn't feel it completely until that vote from electoral college in mid December. There was still parts of me that thought we'll have faithless electors or something will come out.

And I held out hope that in the exact same way these people are until the very end. And I can't sit in judgment of people doing that now. So that was the first thing. And then I think I'm also trying to think through, with the people in my own life, like can you talk with me about the logistics of this?

We have 43,000 margin in Pennsylvania, 34,000 margin in Nevada, 16,000 vote margin in Arizona, 10,000 in Georgia. What do you think happened? Do you think that Nancy Pelosi hired people to fill out ballots, but not democratic all the way down? Only party only for president and then like didn't instruct them to fill out Democrats and then they packed the boxes and then got somehow got past election lawyers whose entire jobs and salaries are on the line as well as Republican secretaries of state to accomplish this.

Like, and I know it's really not the logic of what they envision it's the emotion, but, you know, I do think there's room to say, like, let's talk about the process. I agree with you. Like what you just said, Beth, that, you know, I'm not trying to shut down all election lawsuits. I think that that's important process to play out, but it is.

And so if you think the process is playing out, what else do you want? You know, I'm really trying to embody this and think through how I felt last time and how we do what Joe Biden is asking us to do, which is to reach out to our fellow citizens and try to unite our country. And it's so it's so hard and I am so frustrated and afraid that any delay will slow down, particularly the Biden administration's attempt to give us all our lives back and get this pandemic dealt with.

 But I'm just, I'm trying so, so hard right now to give grace because I can get in my head and I can get angry and I can think 4 million more people voted for Joe Biden, but then I have to take a breath and realize that 4 million is a lot, but 70 to 74 is not, that's a close game and I'm just I'm trying not to, to feed the self righteous anger that is bubbling right on the surface, because I don't think it's good for me. And I don't think it's good for our country. 

Beth: [00:15:19] We wanted to share a moment of hope before we move on into talking more about the election. Um, and this is election related as well, but I watched Dave Chappelle's monologue on Saturday night live.

And, you know, I always think that something comes from him that I didn't expect that interests me and causes me to reframe things. And he was no exception this time, acknowledging that he had been hosting SNL after the 2016 election. I will never forget after that election. He delivered a monologue that was provocative as he always is, but that wound up talking about the fear that some white Americans who supported this president feel now and his empathy for that fear.

So let's just listen to what Dave Chappelle said at the end there,

Dave Chappelle: [00:16:12] I would employ everybody who's celebrating the day to remember, it's good to be a humble winner. Remember when I was here four years ago, remember how bad that felt, remember that half the country right now still feels that way. Please remember that. Remember the, for the first time, the history of America, the life expectancy of white people is dropping because of heroin, because of suicide, all these white people out there that feel that anguish, that pain, that mad.

Cause they think nobody cares and maybe they don't. Let me tell you something. I know how that feels. I promise you. I know how that feels. If you're a police officer, every time you put your uniform on you feel like you got a target on your back. You're appalled by ingratitude that people have, when you would risk your life to save them. Oh man, believe me, believe me.

I know how that feels. Everyone knows how that feels, but here's the difference between me and you. You guys hate each other for that. And I don't hate anybody. I just hate that feeling. That's what I fight through. That's what I suggest you fight through. You got to find a way to live your life. You to find a way to forgive each other. 

Beth: [00:17:43] Good advice for all of us, figuring out a way to live our lives and forgive each other and hold things loosely as we'll continue to talk about in the next section, as we discuss what life looks like now that we have president elect Biden and vice president elect Harris.

Sarah: [00:18:10] Beth, before we move on to talking about president elect Joe Biden. It feels monumental, but we have just elected the first female vice-president in our country's history. I'm not sure if I've still totally taken it in. It still feels very, very surreal. 

Beth: [00:18:36] I think it's one of those things that will be taken in, in sips, you know, like I felt like her speech the other night was like the first sip of a very tall glass of water. And when we see her cast the deciding vote in the Senate, that will be another and when we see her at the state of the union, it will be another, you know, it's just, it is a very big deal on its own and it will be a very big deal over time to over and over again, see, uh, like have the grooves in our brain adjusted to see a woman and not just a woman, but a black woman, a woman from Southeast Asia, like a woman who is the child of immigrants. There are so many things that it's just, it's just going to change us as a nation to have her for four years in that role.

Sarah: [00:19:23] It's such a funny thing. The moments where it strikes you, you know, I think there are. The images of little girls watching her speech that, you know, it feels like every cell in my body is sort of inhaling. It was such a funny moment that I never expected where I really broke down and, and got emotional in a deep way about it.

And it was Julia Louis Dreyfus's tweet that it's no longer now Madam vice president is no longer a fictional character. And I don't think I fully understood, like I understood within myself how much I was afraid I would only see that in TV and movies. Like, I think I've really thought maybe I would only see it in TV and movies.

And I, you know, I still believe what I said after Elizabeth Warren dropped out that a female president is inevitable, but it would happen. But I, you know, I think I was afraid it might not happen for me to see it. And. You know, as a woman who served in public office as a woman who, you know, has lived and breathed politics for most of my life and cares very deeply about female representation, you know, watching her up there realizing it's real that this first and such important barrier has been here shattered, you know, It's overwhelming. It's overwhelming. What did your girls say? 

Beth: [00:21:02] Well, the kids were playing out in my backyard when we finally got the news that the election had been called and I opened up the door. And I said, Hey, Jane, her friends were leaving. She was coming in. I said, Hey, Jane, uh, guess what? Joe Biden and Kamala Harris won the election.

And she screamed and jumped up and down and she flung the sliding glass door back open and called her friends who were leaving the house, you guys, Joe Biden is the new president and all those kids started cheering. And then because kids are such a window into everything. The kids immediately talked about their friends in the neighborhood who were for Donald Trump and they wondered how those friends were doing.

And I was like, I love you guys so much. You know, my girls are really excited about Kamala Harris. I think they just expected though. It's totally different than for, you know, as I was listening to you talk about how you thought you'd never see it. Jane silvers has never had a question that she would see it. 

For her it's just obnoxious and unthinkable that it hasn't already happened. And I think because she has spent so much time reading books about Ruth Bader Ginsburg and Sandra Day O'Connor and, and Susan B. Anthony, and Sacagawea, Oh, she has been saturated with materials in her childhood that tell her, this is an evitable, it's important. Women have contributed. It's completely different upbringing than you and I had. So I'm happy that America met her expectations. Hm. 

Sarah: [00:22:39] Now you shared with me over the weekend, that you haven't felt as big of feelings as you expected watching Kamala speak, watching president elect Joe Biden stepped to the podium.

It, I think there's something about the waiting and of course, you know, his refusal to concede that puts it in this very surreal moment, but as he has started moving forward with the transition this morning, and like, knowing that he's getting briefings, setting out this COVID advisory board, I it's starting to feel more real.

Where are you this morning? 

Beth: [00:23:18] Look, I give those speeches a 10 out of 10. I thought they were terrific. I thought they were just right on. I was so thrilled that they never mentioned Donald Trump's name. And I was so thrilled at the calm, gentle outreach, just that let's just, let's give each other a chance.

Perfect. Couldn't have written it better. I thought they were fantastic. I think the way the transition is proceeding is fantastic. I continue to have some grief about the Kentucky Senate race, some grief about all of the red on the map, some grief that we didn't get the full throated universal repudiation of Trumpism that I wanted.

And I think that for me, it it's kind of like, you know, as a kid, I always got A's and so I stopped having any joy about getting A's because it was just meeting the expectation. And I feel about this election, like America just met the expectation and we had to get there kicking and screaming. And so. I don't mean to be a downer at a time when I know so many of y'all are just tuning in to hear Sarah be jubilant.

I'm so happy for you about that. I really am. I don't want to take anything away from anyone. People worked exceptionally hard to get here, and I believe these two in the way they've conducted themselves so far throughout the campaign till now are right for the moment and are going to do a good job. I am 0% worried about Emily Murphy's antics and whatever else, because Joe Biden is not new to this.

He doesn't need the kind of orientation that everybody would need. And he is, he has at his disposal, a bench of superstar people who want to come work in his government. So. It's it's important. It matters. Uh, it's abhorrent the way Republicans are conducting themselves right now. The fact that the prime minister of Israel is being more of an adult about this than United States senators breaks my heart. Uh, so it's all tempered, you know, it's just it's tempered for me, but I, I have a confidence that I haven't had in a while that we're going to get through it. 

Sarah: [00:25:28] You know, I think so much of it is, we have been trained since 2016 and maybe a little bit for it to like, not trust ourselves, to not trust a news cycle, to not trust particularly the people in charge.

And I just think that's a muscle we're going to have to build up a little bit at a time. You know, I am jubilant. I am overjoyed to see somebody stepped to the microphone in a freaking mask and to say like, I'm, I'm got it guys. I've got it. I promise it's not going to be over tomorrow. We're going to have to work really, really hard.

But people with expertise who care about all Americans are paying attention and we're going to do everything we can. You know, that just fills me with such relief, but I just think we're all a little traumatized. And I think we all have people in our lives that are angry and are loud and you know, this sort of concentrated effort to move to Parlor.

I think there's a lot of fear that like, well, they're going to go over there by themselves and feed off each other. And we, you know, We can't just be happy. We have to focus on them. You know, I'm happy for the people in the streets of New York city and the people in the streets of other major American cities.

But some of us live in red States and some of us are surrounded by a lot of anger still and fear. And I think like, you know, the fact that he will continue to, you know, do whatever he can to shout and, and manipulate us. I just think there's a lot of, like, we have to be gentle with ourselves. I'm just trying to remind myself, like, we're going to have to be gentle with ourselves.

Like there's still a lot of anger and pain out there. We're all still bruised and beaten by this administration and what we all had to go through with our loved ones and online, and still have to go through. It's not magically healed. And I believe that healing and redemption are available, but they are painful processes.

And so I, you know, maybe it's just a sign of maturity that we can all see that, that we can all see what, like we do have a long road and I don't think anybody understands that better than Joe Biden. And I think that, you know, the joy, I feel at the election results and relief is probably the best word to describe how I feel.

You know, it always co-exists with other complicating emotions and we're just going to have to let everybody be where they're at. There's not one way to feel about this, no matter what Twitter tells you. Hell, you can see that right now among the democratic party. I told y'all we weren't organized enough to pull off some massive redirection of the American government to the left. Were fighting in the face of victory. It's not all victory, which is part of why there's fighting, but yes, 

Beth: [00:28:17] this gets to a conversation you and I had yesterday, as we were talking about sort of the takes on the election. If we can have a moratorium on takes, I would feel good about that.

Twitter to political pot, 

Sarah: [00:28:30] right? It's just Twitter. I, I told myself like, don't get back on there. Like I think, I literally think my anxiety is in direct proportion to how often I'm on Twitter in a day. Like. I bet it is a one for one ratio and it's like, I get on there. And even in, like I said, even in the face of good news, I'm like so frustrated with some of the like anger directed at each other.

And you know, after months and months of saying every vote counts, well, every vote counts, but this person is who won the election for us. I'm like, can we not please? 

Beth: [00:29:05] I think not to bust on Twitter, that it's it's any 24 hour cycle of consumption of news. For some people that's Facebook. For some people it's Twitter.

For some of us it's checking different websites. Cause even just being on regular news websites, I found myself fatigued, stressed, had a headache. Cable news is so hard to hang with. Uh, and I think the way that it's produced just inherently creates a lot of problems. 

Um, What you and I came to that I think is worth sharing is that there is just not one way to be right now. There's not one person to congratulate for Joe Biden winning this election. There's not one demographic of voters single-handedly responsible or single handedly to blame for Donald Trump performing as well as he did or for the Senate and the house to be much better for Republicans than the polling anticipated.

There's not one reason the polling was wrong. There are lots of factors at play here. You know, Tara asked us on Patreon to spend some time talking about Trumpism and whether Trumpism survives this or is defeated, does it become in the form of Josh Hollys and Tom Cotton's the animating character of the Republican party?

The truth is, I don't know, because I think that as I look at exit polls, I see a bunch of things going on. Nine out of 10 people factored in protests following George Floyd's murder. I got to sit with that a minute now, do I trust that statistic? As gospel, of course I don't, but there's something there that I can learn from. You know, the way that people thought about the pandemic. There's something there that I can learn from. I think the way that Biden talked about oil in that last debate and moved some people back to the Trump column who were Biden curious before that, there's just, there's just a lot. 

And we can't process all of that at once. And I think it's really unhealthy to try and it makes me bananas to get online and have people telling us all how we should feel right now and who should we should love and who we should not. Um, because we, we cannot take in the entirety of even the last year, let alone the last four and what this election has to say about it. 

Sarah: [00:31:28] In a huge election with voter turnout, like we've never seen with a changing electoral map with people, I think waking up and frustrated with the electoral college, more people than ever before, according to our DMS anyway, and just, you know. I kinda, what I want to say is, especially to the democratic party, our pitch is we're moving forward into a multicultural democracy. And that is true. And also that is complicated. It's going to be really hard y'all. 

It's really difficult work to bring 10 human beings together of different backgrounds and perspectives. It's sure as heck going to be really difficult work to make millions and millions of those Americans come together with different perspectives and we're going to have to give so much grace and so much space and be gentle with ourselves and with each other.

And I just don't know if Twitter and cable news is a place for gentleness, you know, I we're all feeling so much, you know, I felt really defensive of all the people in our audience, you know, when all of those things started to go around about white women and white women, that, and I felt so defensive because I know how much y'all laid on the line.

I know so many of you did really, really hard things. And I don't for one second, want you to hear the message that they didn't matter because exit polls show a certain number or margins in this district were XYZ. Those are numbers, but you know what happened in your hearts and you know, what happened in relationship with the people around you and that's what matters. 

And I don't want that to get lost because we're also obsessed with the analytics and with the takes and with see, you know, section post-mortems. I just don't want that to get lost because I think that those what you did and the choices you made in the, the. The connections and the confrontations and the conflict, all those mattered, they really, really mattered and I want you to hear that from us. 

Beth: [00:33:40] And I also want you to hear from us that it's not over by a long shot in a lot of ways. And so even the people around you who you've been working on and they haven't moved, does that mean you write them off now? This is a long process, the attitudes and beliefs that drive people to where they are politically are never formed overnight and they will not be changed overnight.

And so I want to share with you, Sarah and I did a book club zoom call with a church group on Sunday. And a person asked us about the efforts that she has made to be grace-filled with people around her and to educate herself and to learn everything. And her conclusion is just, you know, racism is a hill she's willing to die on and she just cannot tolerate the casual racism that she saw in so many people around her.

And I completely understand that and shared what I am learning is that it doesn't help anybody for me to die on that Hill. I need to be a part of holding that Hill. I need to be a part of continuing to show up to say, I don't see it like that. Or, you know, when someone says here's how white people are being discriminated against by these policies to say, I can listen to you on this, but I want you to understand that I don't see any truth in that.

And. I care about you, but I don't want to talk about other people this way. And I don't want to think about them this way. And I want us to ask a deeper question then, do you hold in your heart hatred for someone else, because we are at a place where we got to ask a better question than that. So continuing to show up for the longterm will make a difference.

And that's not always going to mean that somebody votes the way that you want, but it might mean that they treat someone differently or they advocate for a different policy in their workplace, or they educate their children differently. There are a lot of different ways to measure the impact that we have on each other.

So, I'm not going to tell you not to be sad or grief stricken or tentative in how you approach people. And there are some of you listening who are going to be in relationships where people use their politics as a weapon all the time. And I'm not going to tell you to stay in relationship with those people, but where you can, where the door is open enough to continue to try I want you to know that it matters. 

Sarah: [00:36:09] I love the analogy of leaving the door open because in that same book club, sorry, the rector used a quote from Martin Luther King with a real emphasis on, you know, how do we do this? How do we love our enemy? And he had this beautiful visual about just leaving the door open for redemption.

And I think that's what I'm really trying to do. I get in a space in those moments and in those relationships where it feels like things will never change and everyone will always feel this way about Donald Trump. And, you know, that's simply not true, even when I'm looking at the election analysis, I think, Oh, well, this exit polls showed that white college educated women grew a point with Donald Trump. Well, that doesn't mean everybody stays and they, every single person stayed and they added somebody. That means that some people didn't vote for him again. And some people did, like, it's always a little more complicated than my first emotional reaction to the math.

And I also get that way in my emotional reaction to even the reality, right? That it feels like it will always be this way. It feels like people will always be angry and that no one will ever change their mind. And every, you know, it's just, it's not true. And I have to leave that door open for redemption people, abandoned white supremacy groups, people abandon their far right ideological backgrounds. It happens all the time. Redemption is possible. And you know, I think that we have a long road in front of us of continued political division. 

But you know, when I look at this election and I watch Joe Biden step on stage, and I watch our first female vice president, I just have to remind myself that there is hope and that redemption is always possible and that grace is always available to us and that is hard and it is complicated, but it's important to me and I, you know, know even a complete repudiation. Of Donald Trump. If the election had gone the exact way, I wanted it to those things would still be true.

Beth: [00:38:25] And so what do you say to people in your life who were Trump supporters? You say, how are you doing? How's your day? Like it's important to keep those relationships solid outside the context of politics, if you hope to influence people politically, and this might be a good time to just work the relationship outside the context of politics and invest in each other.

And when they're ready to talk about it, you can, you can talk. And if you need a question to keep the conversation going, say something like what would make you give Joe Biden that chance that he's asking for? Or what's something that you hope could happen over the next year that would make you feel really good about things? People are talking about fraud and the election, what would convince you that the outcome is legitimate? 

And I agree with you. I want every vote to count. I want it to all be legitimate. I want people to observe the process. I agree on that cause this is our country. We want to hold it together together. I think if somebody is telling you, they're going to leave all the social media platforms for Parlor, and maybe you just say, Oh, I'll miss being able to share our vacation pictures with you, whatever it is.

Right? Like you don't have to have a speech prepared for anybody in your life right now. And you don't have to do that outreach today. You know, I've seen a lot of all these Trump's supporters are calling for graciousness. Where's that been the past four years? Well, like if you're not ready to be there, fine, don't be there yet.

And also in the longterm, think about who you want to be and how you want this to go, because I'm tired of fighting fire with fire. And I'm tired of people saying that even basic civility is unavailable because of this. We have a leader who I think can restore. Some of that opportunity to have different ideas at the table and be enriched by it.

So when I think about how do I want to feel over the next four years, I don't want to spend a second being a thumbs down or thumbs up commentator. I want to think about how I can contribute to problem solving. Cause we got a big inbox of problems in front of us, and I think people of all different political philosophies have something to contribute to problem solving.

That's just the space that I want to stay in. And I hope that we can all eventually come closer to that space than we are today.

Sarah, what is on your mind outside of politics if there is such a thing in November of 2020? 

Sarah: [00:41:00] Oh yeah, there is because we're back in the saddle again, over here at the Holland household. We are home, distance learning full time, started on Friday. It's a week by week decision. So I guess we'll know Thursday, if we're going to go another week. It really, really, really sucks, but I'm very blessed.

Let me be 100% transparent and say that I have hired a full-time nanny to help us with the schooling since you and I have been on the phone or in interviews all day today. So I'm not really sure when the schooling part would have taken place. Otherwise it's just, you know, it's a lot to get like reoriented.

 Are the devices ready? Do we have the set up? Do they have what they need? Like, it's just, you know, it's so exhausting. Felix was really blossoming and really enjoying kindergarten. And so I'm really disappointed that he's back in front of an iPad or running around, disrupting his brothers who are also trying to learn. It's just really, really, really frustrating.

Beth: [00:42:00] So walk us through how you got here because Paducah had been in like regular school for awhile, right? Five days a week. Everybody's there all day something approaching real normalcy. And then all of a sudden, it seems like you were virtual. So what happened? 

Sarah: [00:42:16] Well, we were, it wasn't everybody because some of my, uh, fellow friends and neighbors have been doing distance learning. They opted for distance learning for the entire semester, at the beginning of the year. And so we had reduced capacity enough that social distancing was available and we had obviously the kids wear masks and the teachers are masking, you know, we're really, really blessed in that the chair of our board of education is our local infectious disease doctor.

No joke. And so they. Uh, decided that we were not going to take the recommendations of the governor to start not wait until the end of September. We started like two weeks later than we were supposed to, but we started like one day a week, then two days a week. And then we were back full-time with the reduced capacity obviously.

And it was going really well. I mean, I, I, you know, and at the time our County was yellow. Now our County, like much of America is red. And last week there was a warning like, Ooh, we might be going virtual next week. And by the grace of God, they were not virtual, you know, this last week during the election, or that would have been way too much, but it was really quickly on Thursday.

They said, okay, we're going to go start. I mean, we had like 16 hours notice we're going to go virtual. It'll be a week by week decision based on how long we stay in red. If we keep going up or if we start seeing a reduction. I think more than anything, it's really not about the fact that it's, it's spreading among the kids, because we haven't had a lot of that.

But it's that the, so many of the teachers are either quarantined or sick and it's difficult to find and keep substitutes. I think it was the staffing issues more than the spreading among the kids concern. 

Beth: [00:43:49] Well, so here's, what's fun. We've been on hybrid for a while, where my girls go two days a week to school and our distance learning the remaining three. We get a letter a week ago that says, Hey everybody, I know that cases are surging in our County.

But we also see a surge in problems for our students with distance learning. We have students who are not making contact with teachers. We're worried about mental health. And so despite the rising cases, we are now in the red, in my County, despite that we are going to bring them back four days a week with everybody.

And our school has told us that they cannot maintain social distancing of six feet with all the students there. They'll do the best they can, but they've been really honest. Like these kids will not be six feet apart all day, if they're all here together. So we started that today, about nine 30 last night, we get a message from the principal that our daughter's teachers will have to quarantine because a student in her class has contracted COVID.

There are other students that have had to quarantine from the bus with this student, but they aren't quarantining the entire class. I think they're doing a really good job with communication. I know they are working tirelessly. This seems bananas to me. I, I feel like every week is going to be different.

Yeah, it really has been since the beginning of the school year for us. And I feel like this puts us on a path for it to be even more that every week is going to be different. And let me say, I want these kids back in school so badly. Jane Silvers needs to be with other people her age, our little cohort in the neighborhood.

She is the oldest and it is hard. I had a conversation with her yesterday about how being the oldest means that you have to be really gracious to people who are smaller than you. That's a measure of your character. And she looked at me and she said, I just want to feel small sometimes too. And I said, that is a hundred percent fair Jane, a hundred percent fair.

And I'm so sorry, I can't give it to you here. And so I want them back in school. But like, if we're not doing anything else in our community, this isn't going to work. This teachers are going to, we're going to have the same situation you have in McCracken County. So I'm just, I'm very frustrated that I can't tell either of my girls, anything that's going to last for more than 30 seconds seemingly, and that I broke her heart this morning when I said you're going back still, but your teachers aren't going to be there. It's going to be a substitute. I mean, she was crestfallen. 

Sarah: [00:46:27] Yeah. I think crest fallen is probably a great word to describe everyone's, you know, Impatience and frustration running headlong into the reality that this is spreading. It's basically uncontrolled spread right now. And there is no way for that not to impact our lives in negative ways.

And I don't just mean if you catch the virus. I mean, you know, my family had a wedding this weekend and you know, it was partially outside. We chose to go, we've drove up and drove back and it was still it's like, it was stressful the whole time and, you know, anxiety ridden. Does everybody have their mask on?

Does my grandmother have her mask on? Should we even be here? And like, I love my family and I love weddings and I want to be able to be there and enjoy their company. And I can't because, you know, it's just uncontrolled spread right now. And some people pretend like that's a reality and some people want to compartmentalize and avoid it.

And it's like, we're just. Bumping into each other over and over and over again. And it's so frustrating. It's particularly frustrating when it, it, when it happens that it's affecting your kids and it's affecting all of our kids right now, and it's just, 

I feel like my word of the day is frustration and I wish I had another word or a better way to express what I'm feeling, but just, that's the word that keeps bubbling up over and over and over and over and over again. I'm just so frustrated. 

Beth: [00:48:04] I'm a little bit stuck in my decision-making because I recognize that that I'm not past being gripped by the fear that my mom would die of this, even though she's doing very well, and she's a hard road ahead, but she's all things considered doing very, very well. And I'm so enormously grateful for that. You know, there's a toll of believing that someone you love is in that kind of danger, knowing that someone you love is in that kind of danger. It wasn't, it wasn't hyperbole.

And so I look at everything through the lens of, you know, I'm just ready to like put a big tent around my house and zip it up for the winter. And endure another few months of just being locked down here altogether. If that's what we need to do to have other families avoid what mine has been through. My heart is broken for the teachers who are in the middle of this.

I talked to a teacher recently who just got a cancer diagnosis um, at the same time that she got notified that she was going to have to go back to a classroom full of kids that wouldn't be distanced from her. And I can't imagine what that must be like. So I, I'm not upset with anyone in particular, but I am.

I am upset that we are all in this situation still. And then I think the next few months are going to be harder than even the past few months have been. And I know that's not a particularly cheery way to end what is mostly a celebratory podcast, but it's also a very realistic way. And one that-

Sarah: [00:49:40] I think the Joe Biden would endorse that.

Beth: [00:49:43] Yeah, the incoming administration wants us to all to understand and we do the, we understand that the next few months are going to be hard. That's a long time to know the winner of an election before that person takes power. And there is a rough road ahead for everyone, but we are here together. We're going to understand as much as we can understand.

We're going to keep our feet on the ground together and continue to do our good work. Take care of each other, wear your mask, wash your hands. Keep it nuanced, y'all.

Pantsuit Politics is produced by Studio D Podcast Production. 

Alise Knapp is our managing director. Dante Lima is the composer and performer of our theme music. 

Our show is listener supported. Special thanks to our executive producers: 

Sarah: [00:50:35] david McWilliams. Ally Edwards. Martha Bernitski. 

Beth: [00:50:39] Amy Whited. Janice Elliot, Sarah Ralph, Barry Kaufman, Jeremy Sequoia, Laurie ladoe, Emily Nieslie, Alison Luzador, Tracy Pudoff, Danny Ozment, Angie Erickson.

Julie Hallar. Jared 

Sarah: [00:50:55] Minson, Marnie Johanson, The Creeds!

Beth: [00:50:59] Sherry Blam, Tiffany Hassler, Morgan McKue, Nicole Birkless, Linda Daniel, Joshua Allen and Tim Miller. 

Sarah: [00:51:06] To support Pantsuit Politics and receive lots of bonus features visit patreon.com/pantsuit politics. 

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