Positive vs. Negative rights: if your right depends on the labor and output of another individual, it's not a right. Nobody is obligated to provide another with anything. Our policies need to reflect and encourage cooperation among the populace and love for one another, not a forced "you will put your money and labor toward this even if you vehemently disagree with the goal." Doing otherwise builds resentment among the populace, and it grows and grows until you get a Trump and a Milei.
I had the absolute best Nana in the world who raised me right in the whimsy department! Whenever we would go on walks in the park she would comment on the gnome hiding behind the tree and the fairy that just flew by, etc. I truly believed for years that fairies lived in her back yard.
Our best current household whimsy is that we put large googly eyes on our robot vacuum and named him George. He is discussed as a member of the household (clearly the butler!) and I frequently berate him out-loud by name when he gets stuck in weird places. All robot vacs need googly eyes, people!
I live in SE Wisconsin in a little burb, and I have lived in the same area and I drive past a dairy farm every time I go to the grocery store. I have been saying, "Hi cows" followed by a very dramatic not realistic to a cow at all "Mooo" since 2007. And now all my children do it too, including my 19 year old when we are together.
My husband does a really bad Arnold Schwarzenegger voice when he wants the kids to get in the car, "Maria, get in the choppa!" which I found obnoxious until my 7 year old son started to do it and now I love it.
In answer to Sarah’s closing question about hoping we learned something, YES! At first I thought this episode was going to be terrible person porn, but your insights into what drives him offered so much more. This is the kind of thing— being surprised by the relevance and value of a news item— that I truly love from you.
Whimsy - we have a mermaid fantasy in my home. My husband bought a mermaid metal sign with a mermaid taking a bath and it says "Wash your tail". So whenever I take a bath I say "I'm going to wash my tail".
Another whimsy - we love The FarbSide cartoons. We have two adjoining apartments, so to differentiate between them, one is the designated "Far Side"....please bring me the ketchup from the far side fridge"! Or, we're going over to the far side to watch a show".
Whimsy: Give someone you love a Whimsday. You just do what whatever they feel like and it is awesome on both ends. They want to watch South Park? Ok. They want to go to Denny's? Sure. They want to go to a dive bar? Yes. Watch Sopranos when we get home? Let's do it. It started as a birthday thing, and my fiance and I jokingly called it Whimsday. Just follow the whims. It's a lot of fun.
Whimsy: Our 9 year old is also difficult to get out of bed in the morning. On the occasions he gets out of bed independently, we just go absolutely crazy hooting and hollering and and cheering and chanting his name all loud and ridiculous. 😂
Ok. I have a gazillion issues rising from this episode:
1. I am not into tabloid fodder or lurid stuff. However, these are not rumors. This is something Miley talks about openly. Maybe this was the dovetail into whimsy. Miley affirms to be a Tantric S*x Master that con go on for three months. He cloned his dog Conan multiple times. He also uses the services of a veterinary medium to speak with the dead Conan to seek counsel. As the kids say: major red flags.
2. Take out morality out of politics? I need to hear about that because in mind that sounded like an invocation to Machiavelli.
3. I am, sadly, nowhere near as Ms. Silvers about the results of destruction.
4. I think freedom from government is a nice sentiment that gets nicer the higher on the food chain you are. Who needs the government safety net when you have a trust fund?
5. Positive rights is another beast. Sure you can strip down that list without major issues the higher up you sit. I think this is very relative. Are the positive rights of an individual in the U.S. that those in a country in such disarray like Haiti? Not really, because in a dystopian place like that life might be all you get to aspire for. But in the U.S. is it really too much to ask that people have food to survive, not to have to sleep outside, and basic medical care? I have many good friends from Cuba. They will argue with you that in the U.S. there is no poverty because there are food banks. Poverty exists in Cuban where there’s nothing. “Food desert” is a very American concept. You have to go over a mile for affordable nutritious food. How many miles some African women have to walk daily to get some water? The more powerful and rich a nation is the more things should be available to anyone to be able to live and not just survive.
6. Non profits, grassroots programs are great. But someone has to pay. We do the work but sustain significant, impactful work is too hard to do without funding. You can only make so much from silent auctions or selling banana bread in a parking lot.
7. I believe in subsidiarity. The solutions coming from the lowest possible level closest to the problem.
8. Finally, I am really always fluctuating on how much government is needed. And how powerful it has to be. Sometimes I go full on Leviathan, others, when I don’t like the particular Leviathan I want a more flexible social contract. The thing I am convinced to is that in a pure libertarian state soon it will degrade to Wild West, then pretty quickly to a straight Darwinian system. We need a neutral party with a big enough stick that can keep the bullies at bay.
Also putting “you can only make so much from selling banana bread in the parking lot” on a billboard.
On 7, I am with you and in a WEIRD place right now. I feel like Donald Trump has really rocked my boat. Because on the one hand, you think “aren’t we glad they didn’t get rid of the filibuster because that keeps bad things at bay in the Senate” but then I think about how Wyoming has two Senators and the population of the entire state of Wyoming is less than the state of my semi-rural county in Florida and people in Puerto Rico and Washington DC have zero Senators and I think “no, nothing about the Senate makes me feel better about anything” uggghhhhhhhh
I thought the discussion of Milei was so helpful because it enabled you to get at a lot of issues without getting into the outrage impulse that comes from discussing trump
When you were talking about Milei's honesty, I couldn't help but make the mental leap to the person who uses "brutal honesty" as an ethos which, in turn, becomes an excuse to be a jerk. "I'm just being honest." I really wish we did see more honesty in politics. I think people would respond to it. "Yes, inflation has been high and that hurts, here's what we want to do to address it." "Yes, we made mistakes on Covid policy, let's learn from those and do x instead". I think there is an inherent cynicism in the brutal honesty ethos. The idea that it's okay to cause pain in the cause of honesty, when in reality, honesty with empathy is more effective and more helpful. Brutal honesty points out a problem, but oftentimes doesn't have a solution. Honesty with empathy implies care and support for a solution. Sometimes we all need to hear tough things. But it doesn't have to be conveyed in the most asshole-ish way possible.
On another note, I am really wondering how much the scale of government is so challenging for people because we are also struggling to grasp the size of the world, by which I mean how many people the government has to support, the sheer amount of money (who can really conceptualize trillions of dollars??). Like yes, the government is huge. But also, we have 340M+ people. That's a lot of bodies. I can barely even conceptualize something like 30k people. Okay a football stadium can hold up to 100k and yes, I had to look that up. Ha!
I do think the scale of the government ultimately boils down to trust. I don't think it's reasonable to expect that all, most, or perhaps even anyone can really grasp all the elements of the government. There are too many parts. Just like we can't grasp all the moving parts of a restaurant if we haven't been in the kitchen or seen the books. We have to be able to trust that the government is working for the common good. And like Beth pointed out in her response to Project 2025, building trust may be the first real step that's needed. Ironically, Trump gets more trust I think because he's so plainly lying so often. You can trust that he's going to be dishonest (I'm absolutely thinking about a scene from Pirates of the Caribbean in saying that). I do think Pete Buttigieg and AOC tap on this feeling of trust. I'd like to see more government reps being honest about the state of things and what next steps can look like, the good, the bad, and the ugly.
Oh my gosh you hit on something else that ties in to Beth’s MTS about online dating/dating and the great discussion that followed. The rise of men being mad about (well seemingly everything) and a huge uptick in very right/far right MAGA dudebros wanting a petite traditional woman (but somehow also they can be ENM?) is matched or perhaps surpassed by the number of men describing themselves as “brutally honest”. Giant red flag. I see that as “hey, I’m telling you right now I’m a dick and a bully but it’s honest so obviously you can’t say it’s bad or wrong”.
I haven’t read the comments yet, but to the role of women discussion - I’ve been following Reshma Saujani since she was on the show talking about the Marshall Plan for Moms and she posted about this today (gift link). Here’s a quote from the article - “More recent data, however, show increasing support for traditional gender roles among both Republican men and Republican women. For example, in the Views of the Electorate Research Survey, the percentage of Republican men who agreed that women should return to their traditional roles increased from 28 percent in May 2022 to 48 percent in November 2024. Among Republican women, there was an increase from 23 percent to 37 percent. The views of Democrats, on the other hand, did not change much.”
Listening to this episode reminded me of the historic argument that the market justified slavery in America: slavery was acceptable regardless of the horrific consequences because of what it added to the American economy. And the economic implications of ending slavery are what protected this as an American institution for so long. I have also heard the argument that the market would have also eventually resolved the issue of slavery without the need for government involvement. Absent from these statements is a complete disregard for the very real, horrific suffering of millions of individuals and their families.
You all keep KNOCKING IT OUT OF THE PARK. This episode was SO helpful and made me feel more grounded (at the end of a week where I have been feeling more dismal than usual about the state of things). 👏🏻❤️
Just here to say that this week's main episodes were really helpful for me to contextualize the current chaos, and I think I probably lean toward the idea that some intentional rethinking around government is necessary. The current way of doing this feels so random, chaotic, and fraught with probable harmful consequences. And I find myself wondering if it would feel better to have it named as "this is going to hurt but here is where we're headed" instead of as what feels like acts of vengeance. I doubt Trump is aligned with that thought and intention. I really wish there was more care toward already marginalized vulnerable folx in this whole process, because as a social worker, it is really difficult to sit with how it's playing out and who is likely to be most impacted. On that note, I think housing is so fundamental to stability across domains of daily functioning, not to the point that it's a legal entitlement, but to the extent I bristled a little during this episode because there was a tone that felt dismissive of its importance.
Not me having rewind the whimsy discussion because my brain got stuck on Sarah saying “I don’t have negative self talk.” Imagine the GIF of Jennifer Lawrence on hot ones saying “what do you mean?” 😂 so happy you don’t have this, Sarah!
I love to incorporate whimsey into life! For example…I had friends over for Valentine’s Day and bought flowers and found a flower arranging video on YouTube and we made fancy flower arrangements. My husband and I have seasonal couples mugs (like they say “I love you” and “I love you more”) that we swap through the year and use anytime we drink coffee together. I have a special “weekend” mug that is a fancy antique I found when I was thrifting that brings me so much joy.
Another area of whimsey that I’ve recently found is incorporating my toddler into chores. He LOVES helping. Have to carry a bag? Let him help and cheer him along. Laundry? He is THRILLED to count the articles of clothing we are putting in the washer or dryer. Is it efficient? Absolutely not. But does he love it and does it ultimately slow me down and make it more fun? Yes.
I also don't have negative self-talk and I realize that is not everyone's experience. But it took me years to truly recognize that it is simply how I am wired and we are all wired differently. I chalk it up to my personality being comparable to that of Miss Piggy.
Positive vs. Negative rights: if your right depends on the labor and output of another individual, it's not a right. Nobody is obligated to provide another with anything. Our policies need to reflect and encourage cooperation among the populace and love for one another, not a forced "you will put your money and labor toward this even if you vehemently disagree with the goal." Doing otherwise builds resentment among the populace, and it grows and grows until you get a Trump and a Milei.
Re: whimsy!
I had the absolute best Nana in the world who raised me right in the whimsy department! Whenever we would go on walks in the park she would comment on the gnome hiding behind the tree and the fairy that just flew by, etc. I truly believed for years that fairies lived in her back yard.
Our best current household whimsy is that we put large googly eyes on our robot vacuum and named him George. He is discussed as a member of the household (clearly the butler!) and I frequently berate him out-loud by name when he gets stuck in weird places. All robot vacs need googly eyes, people!
I live in SE Wisconsin in a little burb, and I have lived in the same area and I drive past a dairy farm every time I go to the grocery store. I have been saying, "Hi cows" followed by a very dramatic not realistic to a cow at all "Mooo" since 2007. And now all my children do it too, including my 19 year old when we are together.
My husband does a really bad Arnold Schwarzenegger voice when he wants the kids to get in the car, "Maria, get in the choppa!" which I found obnoxious until my 7 year old son started to do it and now I love it.
In answer to Sarah’s closing question about hoping we learned something, YES! At first I thought this episode was going to be terrible person porn, but your insights into what drives him offered so much more. This is the kind of thing— being surprised by the relevance and value of a news item— that I truly love from you.
Whimsy - we have a mermaid fantasy in my home. My husband bought a mermaid metal sign with a mermaid taking a bath and it says "Wash your tail". So whenever I take a bath I say "I'm going to wash my tail".
Another whimsy - we love The FarbSide cartoons. We have two adjoining apartments, so to differentiate between them, one is the designated "Far Side"....please bring me the ketchup from the far side fridge"! Or, we're going over to the far side to watch a show".
Whimsy: Give someone you love a Whimsday. You just do what whatever they feel like and it is awesome on both ends. They want to watch South Park? Ok. They want to go to Denny's? Sure. They want to go to a dive bar? Yes. Watch Sopranos when we get home? Let's do it. It started as a birthday thing, and my fiance and I jokingly called it Whimsday. Just follow the whims. It's a lot of fun.
Amazing! I love this idea.
Whimsy: Our 9 year old is also difficult to get out of bed in the morning. On the occasions he gets out of bed independently, we just go absolutely crazy hooting and hollering and and cheering and chanting his name all loud and ridiculous. 😂
I wake my grumpy 9 year old by singing "Morning's Here!" from Friends. If I try to wake her up any other way now she tells me I have to sing. :)
We use that too! 😂😂😂
Ok. I have a gazillion issues rising from this episode:
1. I am not into tabloid fodder or lurid stuff. However, these are not rumors. This is something Miley talks about openly. Maybe this was the dovetail into whimsy. Miley affirms to be a Tantric S*x Master that con go on for three months. He cloned his dog Conan multiple times. He also uses the services of a veterinary medium to speak with the dead Conan to seek counsel. As the kids say: major red flags.
2. Take out morality out of politics? I need to hear about that because in mind that sounded like an invocation to Machiavelli.
3. I am, sadly, nowhere near as Ms. Silvers about the results of destruction.
4. I think freedom from government is a nice sentiment that gets nicer the higher on the food chain you are. Who needs the government safety net when you have a trust fund?
5. Positive rights is another beast. Sure you can strip down that list without major issues the higher up you sit. I think this is very relative. Are the positive rights of an individual in the U.S. that those in a country in such disarray like Haiti? Not really, because in a dystopian place like that life might be all you get to aspire for. But in the U.S. is it really too much to ask that people have food to survive, not to have to sleep outside, and basic medical care? I have many good friends from Cuba. They will argue with you that in the U.S. there is no poverty because there are food banks. Poverty exists in Cuban where there’s nothing. “Food desert” is a very American concept. You have to go over a mile for affordable nutritious food. How many miles some African women have to walk daily to get some water? The more powerful and rich a nation is the more things should be available to anyone to be able to live and not just survive.
6. Non profits, grassroots programs are great. But someone has to pay. We do the work but sustain significant, impactful work is too hard to do without funding. You can only make so much from silent auctions or selling banana bread in a parking lot.
7. I believe in subsidiarity. The solutions coming from the lowest possible level closest to the problem.
8. Finally, I am really always fluctuating on how much government is needed. And how powerful it has to be. Sometimes I go full on Leviathan, others, when I don’t like the particular Leviathan I want a more flexible social contract. The thing I am convinced to is that in a pure libertarian state soon it will degrade to Wild West, then pretty quickly to a straight Darwinian system. We need a neutral party with a big enough stick that can keep the bullies at bay.
I’m SO with you on 5.
Also putting “you can only make so much from selling banana bread in the parking lot” on a billboard.
On 7, I am with you and in a WEIRD place right now. I feel like Donald Trump has really rocked my boat. Because on the one hand, you think “aren’t we glad they didn’t get rid of the filibuster because that keeps bad things at bay in the Senate” but then I think about how Wyoming has two Senators and the population of the entire state of Wyoming is less than the state of my semi-rural county in Florida and people in Puerto Rico and Washington DC have zero Senators and I think “no, nothing about the Senate makes me feel better about anything” uggghhhhhhhh
I thought the discussion of Milei was so helpful because it enabled you to get at a lot of issues without getting into the outrage impulse that comes from discussing trump
When you were talking about Milei's honesty, I couldn't help but make the mental leap to the person who uses "brutal honesty" as an ethos which, in turn, becomes an excuse to be a jerk. "I'm just being honest." I really wish we did see more honesty in politics. I think people would respond to it. "Yes, inflation has been high and that hurts, here's what we want to do to address it." "Yes, we made mistakes on Covid policy, let's learn from those and do x instead". I think there is an inherent cynicism in the brutal honesty ethos. The idea that it's okay to cause pain in the cause of honesty, when in reality, honesty with empathy is more effective and more helpful. Brutal honesty points out a problem, but oftentimes doesn't have a solution. Honesty with empathy implies care and support for a solution. Sometimes we all need to hear tough things. But it doesn't have to be conveyed in the most asshole-ish way possible.
On another note, I am really wondering how much the scale of government is so challenging for people because we are also struggling to grasp the size of the world, by which I mean how many people the government has to support, the sheer amount of money (who can really conceptualize trillions of dollars??). Like yes, the government is huge. But also, we have 340M+ people. That's a lot of bodies. I can barely even conceptualize something like 30k people. Okay a football stadium can hold up to 100k and yes, I had to look that up. Ha!
I do think the scale of the government ultimately boils down to trust. I don't think it's reasonable to expect that all, most, or perhaps even anyone can really grasp all the elements of the government. There are too many parts. Just like we can't grasp all the moving parts of a restaurant if we haven't been in the kitchen or seen the books. We have to be able to trust that the government is working for the common good. And like Beth pointed out in her response to Project 2025, building trust may be the first real step that's needed. Ironically, Trump gets more trust I think because he's so plainly lying so often. You can trust that he's going to be dishonest (I'm absolutely thinking about a scene from Pirates of the Caribbean in saying that). I do think Pete Buttigieg and AOC tap on this feeling of trust. I'd like to see more government reps being honest about the state of things and what next steps can look like, the good, the bad, and the ugly.
Oh my gosh you hit on something else that ties in to Beth’s MTS about online dating/dating and the great discussion that followed. The rise of men being mad about (well seemingly everything) and a huge uptick in very right/far right MAGA dudebros wanting a petite traditional woman (but somehow also they can be ENM?) is matched or perhaps surpassed by the number of men describing themselves as “brutally honest”. Giant red flag. I see that as “hey, I’m telling you right now I’m a dick and a bully but it’s honest so obviously you can’t say it’s bad or wrong”.
Vomit.
I haven’t read the comments yet, but to the role of women discussion - I’ve been following Reshma Saujani since she was on the show talking about the Marshall Plan for Moms and she posted about this today (gift link). Here’s a quote from the article - “More recent data, however, show increasing support for traditional gender roles among both Republican men and Republican women. For example, in the Views of the Electorate Research Survey, the percentage of Republican men who agreed that women should return to their traditional roles increased from 28 percent in May 2022 to 48 percent in November 2024. Among Republican women, there was an increase from 23 percent to 37 percent. The views of Democrats, on the other hand, did not change much.”
https://www.nytimes.com/2025/02/27/opinion/trump-republicans-masculinity-gender-traditional.html?unlocked_article_code=1.0U4.GjgQ.Gcr4ROwNWNOv&smid=url-share
Listening to this episode reminded me of the historic argument that the market justified slavery in America: slavery was acceptable regardless of the horrific consequences because of what it added to the American economy. And the economic implications of ending slavery are what protected this as an American institution for so long. I have also heard the argument that the market would have also eventually resolved the issue of slavery without the need for government involvement. Absent from these statements is a complete disregard for the very real, horrific suffering of millions of individuals and their families.
The mention of gender equity under the law reminded me of the More to Say about the disparity of divorce law in the US. So deeply disturbing 😳
Ooh, I missed that one, will have to look it up
You all keep KNOCKING IT OUT OF THE PARK. This episode was SO helpful and made me feel more grounded (at the end of a week where I have been feeling more dismal than usual about the state of things). 👏🏻❤️
Just here to say that this week's main episodes were really helpful for me to contextualize the current chaos, and I think I probably lean toward the idea that some intentional rethinking around government is necessary. The current way of doing this feels so random, chaotic, and fraught with probable harmful consequences. And I find myself wondering if it would feel better to have it named as "this is going to hurt but here is where we're headed" instead of as what feels like acts of vengeance. I doubt Trump is aligned with that thought and intention. I really wish there was more care toward already marginalized vulnerable folx in this whole process, because as a social worker, it is really difficult to sit with how it's playing out and who is likely to be most impacted. On that note, I think housing is so fundamental to stability across domains of daily functioning, not to the point that it's a legal entitlement, but to the extent I bristled a little during this episode because there was a tone that felt dismissive of its importance.
Not me having rewind the whimsy discussion because my brain got stuck on Sarah saying “I don’t have negative self talk.” Imagine the GIF of Jennifer Lawrence on hot ones saying “what do you mean?” 😂 so happy you don’t have this, Sarah!
I love to incorporate whimsey into life! For example…I had friends over for Valentine’s Day and bought flowers and found a flower arranging video on YouTube and we made fancy flower arrangements. My husband and I have seasonal couples mugs (like they say “I love you” and “I love you more”) that we swap through the year and use anytime we drink coffee together. I have a special “weekend” mug that is a fancy antique I found when I was thrifting that brings me so much joy.
Another area of whimsey that I’ve recently found is incorporating my toddler into chores. He LOVES helping. Have to carry a bag? Let him help and cheer him along. Laundry? He is THRILLED to count the articles of clothing we are putting in the washer or dryer. Is it efficient? Absolutely not. But does he love it and does it ultimately slow me down and make it more fun? Yes.
Toddlers are the most whimsical. They get a bad rap but it is like having a tiny magical elf in your house.
I also don't have negative self-talk and I realize that is not everyone's experience. But it took me years to truly recognize that it is simply how I am wired and we are all wired differently. I chalk it up to my personality being comparable to that of Miss Piggy.